Klei fixed the lureplant cheese, a really bad decisions.

[Wenhelxing]

Well, here's a little rant about this decision. I think lure plants should have been untouched because it will undo some of the farms and cheeses that only a tiny percentage of people do. I don't believe that this would do anything but piss off those tiny percentage of people (including me) and would serve no real QoL purpose. Farming mobs are fun, and it isn't some game-breaking bug that would completely decimate the player base if left unfixed. If anything, it would only affect old players. 

[landromat]

no worries, im pretty sure unnerf flesh bulb mod is already being worked on

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Wenhelxing said:

it would only affect old players. 

It would affect the difficulty of the game if left untouched.

1 hour ago, landromat said:

no worries, im pretty sure unnerf flesh bulb mod is already being worked on

There's already one published

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, landromat said:

no worries, im pretty sure unnerf flesh bulb mod is already being worked on

Funny how the changes Klei make to this game seem to only affect console edition players huh? Jokes aside.. I think it just makes sense that large creatures can “trample” small insignificant objects.

It makes absolutely no sense at all that Lureplants and Spider Nests were Indestructible yet Thelucite Walls could easily be destroyed by these same mobs.

The change was justified.

[EatenCheetos]

1 hour ago, Wenhelxing said:

and would serve no real QoL purpose.

We would stop getting guides and videos teaching people that it’s a viable strategy, that’s pretty QoL to me. 

Bugs are bugs, and bugs should be squished.

[Ohan]

Only maxwell is allowed to completely break boss movement mechanics apparently 

Edited March 22 by Ohan

[BalkanCockroach]

1 hour ago, EatenCheetos said:

Bugs are bugs, and bugs should be squished.

Some bugs are cute and harmless.

And what about glommer, you wanna squish glommer?! Cruel...

Edited March 22 by BalkanCockroach

[Sacco]

i am against boring and free cheeses who don't require anything special like this.

klei said that they want to somehow "fix" this change to the lureplants and i am pretty sad about it if i have to be honest.

i know that everyone has to enjoy the game the way they want, but a boss shouldn't be supposed to be destroyed without any effort.

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Funny how the changes Klei make to this game seem to only affect console edition players huh? Jokes aside.. I think it just makes sense that large creatures can “trample” small insignificant objects.

Not every pc player is putting in a mod for everything.  If just 1 person wants a mod they can make it, it doesn't mean every player is using it.  Same with all other mods.  I'd say the only real common mods are stuff like status display, geometric placement, and maybe action queue.  Beyond that mods vary a lot based on personal opinion.

I doubt anyone I play with would have any interest in a mod that just reverts a change Klei made, regardless of what that change is.  If Klei changes so that lureplants are squashed, putting a mod in doesn't "fix" that problem for me b/c I'm here to play DST.  Not DST-butezmode or DST-buttryhardmode.

3 hours ago, EatenCheetos said:

Bugs are bugs, and bugs should be squished.

It wasn't a bug.  It was the coded behavior of the prefabs to NOT be destroyed by trampling.  Finding useful interactions like this is a hallmark of emergent gameplay.  This is a nerf, not a fix.

3 hours ago, Ohan said:

Only maxwell is allowed to completely break boss movement mechanics apparently 

fr this.  Maxwell can do so much worse than a lureplant can, all we're losing is the character agnostic option.  Same when they removed rain generation exploit and gave Wicker the rain book.  Now a certain character is just that much more powerful...

I've been putting some time into playing Max recently, and he is extremely OP at every stage in the game.  If he were given a blank skill tree he'd still be OP.

Edited March 22 by Yuuko

[Faintly Macabre]

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It makes absolutely no sense at all that Lureplants and Spider Nests were Indestructible yet Thelucite Walls could easily be destroyed by these same mobs.

It doesn't make any less sense than any of the other completely ridiculous ways different entities in the game behave or interact with each other.

Edited March 22 by Faintly Macabre

[Well-met]

this is the only game ive seen where its players will religiously do everything they can to not play the game

[Yuuko]

8 minutes ago, Well-met said:

this is the only game ive seen where its players will religiously do everything they can to not play the game

Lureplants come from somewhere, get placed somewhere, to accomplish something - what are these somewhere's and something's if not "the game" ?

Are lureplants injected from hyperspace or something?  Did their code grow organically on a server and infect us?  Is the moonstone we farm exchanged for NFT's as an investment?  In what way is this not all part of the game?

Edited March 22 by Yuuko

[Faintly Macabre]

27 minutes ago, Well-met said:

this is the only game ive seen where its players will religiously do everything they can to not play the game

You should get out more, it's a whole bunch of people's favorite thing to do in games

[Mike23Ua]

You guys are just upset that two easy ways of doing something are removed from the game.

Meanwhile im over here begging Klei to let me give them suggestions.

We got a new spray that pretty much petrifies stuff.. So how about if you want to pin a boss in with objects it can only be fully grown stage 3 marble bushes that have been sprayed down by the new spray?

I would accept that and find it far more logical then whatever lureplant & spider den blocking tactics people had been using.

[Faintly Macabre]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You guys are just upset that two easy ways of doing something are removed from the game.

Meanwhile im over here begging Klei to let me give them suggestions.

We got a new spray that pretty much petrifies stuff.. So how about if you want to pin a boss in with objects it can only be fully grown stage 3 marble bushes that have been sprayed down by the new spray?

I would accept that and find it far more logical then whatever lureplant & spider den blocking tactics people had been using.

How is that at all better, though? It is very slightly more prep for the exact same result, and going by "logic" marble doesn't seem like it should be any harder to plow through that thulecite, decoration spray or not.

[arubaro]

51 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Lureplants come from somewhere, get placed somewhere, to accomplish something - what are these somewhere's and something's if not "the game" ?

Are lureplants injected from hyperspace or something?  Did their code grow organically on a server and infect us?  Is the moonstone we farm exchanged for NFT's as an investment?  In what way is this not all part of the game?

Nice try

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Sacco said:

i am against boring and free cheeses who don't require anything special like this.

klei said that they want to somehow "fix" this change to the lureplants and i am pretty sad about it if i have to be honest.

i know that everyone has to enjoy the game the way they want, but a boss shouldn't be supposed to be destroyed without any effort.

Ultimately if lureplants can't be used like they used to it only kinda matters to a degree, it does not fix being able to cheese this boss for no effort at all.

I can't speak on behalf of anyone else but I love the lureplant cheese, Whether you think i'm right or wrong, less effort the better imo, i've done it. I've seen it, i've seen it again, and again and again ad nauseum. Any reduction in that experience is absolutely welcomed, by me. 

For me; A good comparison would be travelling. If I have a destination, i'm more than happy to take the scenic route, it's awesome taking in the sights and really adds to the experience, it adds a really worthwhile layer onto the whole thing. If i'm having to take that journey to the same destination over and over again, i'm probably gonna be less enthused about the scenery, I remember it, it was fun. If an option to get to where i wanted to go came up where it was quicker, absolutely i'm gonna take that.

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

fr this.  Maxwell can do so much worse than a lureplant can, all we're losing is the character agnostic option.  Same when they removed rain generation exploit and gave Wicker the rain book.  Now a certain character is just that much more powerful...

I've been putting some time into playing Max recently, and he is extremely OP at every stage in the game.  If he were given a blank skill tree he'd still be OP.

I absolutely agree with you (Not that Max doesn't have a place, I went through a big phase of time where I really enjoyed playing him), he was my 'I wanna rush to end game and decorate' pick. If Maxwell is allowed to Maxwell, Lureplants should remain unable to be trampled by FW, say it's cause they're lunar or something 

[Mike23Ua]

50 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

How is that at all better, though? It is very slightly more prep for the exact same result, and going by "logic" marble doesn't seem like it should be any harder to plow through that thulecite, decoration spray or not.

Sure it does, the spray is a late game item that freezes an object in the constant into a permanent status of pure horror induced fear.

Or… think of it like the constant (which isn’t even on earth) being like this sorta of computer program Matrix where things are more than meets the eye.

The embalming spritz turns the Marble Trees into something impenetrable 

And considering Klei is highly unlikely to reverse their decision to nerf both Lureplant and Spider Nest cheese, I think what you should be doing is giving that argument a complete rest and instead do like I have Tried to do here: And give players an Alternative (albeit harder & more time consuming) method of achieving the previous results.

I’m trying to offer you a way to get back in some variation, what was changed.

But personally I could careless if Klei just removes the cheese and doesn’t give a more difficult official variation to doing it.

Rather that’s with stage 3 marble bushes, or Embaling Fluid Spritz’d DreadStone walls is irrelevant to me.

Because currently you don’t have ANY method anymore, & I’m sure that you will agree that anything is better than nothing.

Edited March 22 by Mike23Ua

[Wenhelxing]

In conclusion, those trying to get the lure plant cheese patched have the mindset of "I played the game one way, but another person played the game a different way but more fun and efficient. Therefore, I am angry at that player for having fun, and I wanna let the devs change it so they'll be forced to play the game my way. Horray!" 

[Uedo]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Because currently you don’t have ANY method anymore, & I’m sure that you will agree that anything is better than nothing.

But you're completely wrong tho :/ There is.

[Yuuko]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The embalming spritz turns the Marble Trees into something impenetrable 

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the nature and purpose of the embalming spritz.  It turns real items into mechanically worthless decorations.  It is a meta-item purpose built for designers to capture only the visual of an item.  I wouldn't be surprised if Klei decided to remove collision from spritzed items as a QOL to them.

More then that - if you have no objection to <an item> blocking a mob, does it matter if its purpose build by the devs or a happy accident (not bug) by the devs?

Are you just wanting a dev to come staple a note to your monitor saying "YES WE DID CODE THIS THING" for you to be okay with a different player in a different server doing a thing differently than you?

[EatenCheetos]

2 hours ago, Yuuko said:

Lureplants come from somewhere, get placed somewhere, to accomplish something - what are these somewhere's and something's if not "the game" ?

Are lureplants injected from hyperspace or something?  Did their code grow organically on a server and infect us?  Is the moonstone we farm exchanged for NFT's as an investment?  In what way is this not all part of the game?

Cheesing a bossfight counts as skipping the gameplay of the bossfight 

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

(not bug)

It’s most definitely a bug

1 hour ago, Wenhelxing said:

In conclusion, those trying to get the lure plant cheese patched have the mindset of "I played the game one way, but another person played the game a different way but more fun and efficient. Therefore, I am angry at that player for having fun, and I wanna let the devs change it so they'll be forced to play the game my way. Horray!" 

That is a strawman fallacy

Edited March 22 by EatenCheetos

[Wenhelxing]

12 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

 

That is a strawman fallacy

I did not exaggerate anything there, Shakespeare. 

[lenship2]

47 minutes ago, EatenCheetos said:

That is a strawman fallacy

a strawman and a subtle ad hominem

 

34 minutes ago, Wenhelxing said:

Shakespeare

tmw literally pointing out a logical fallacy in an argument is apparently a nerd thing now

[hoxi]

4 hours ago, Yuuko said:

It wasn't a bug.  It was the coded behavior of the prefabs to NOT be destroyed by trampling.  Finding useful interactions like this is a hallmark of emergent gameplay.  This is a nerf, not a fix.

Don't have much to contribute to this topic but I did feel like pointing this out. It's not a bug, that's true, it's an oversight (and it's pretty apparent when looking at the code). Those can be addressed, it just wasn't until now I guess.

Not all mechanics that handle destruction on collision checked for health components and to damage or run the kill function (a lot of these are done individually rather than all sharing the same code), and only checked for "workable" stuff, which lureplants and spider nests lacked. Rooks are one of the few cases that checked for: "smashables" (stuff that if you hover over it shows the "Smash" action, to attack it), else workable, else health, since they're supposed to deal damage anyway. The problem was for cases where that "trampling" mechanic didn't deal damage, just "worked" stuff in the way.