I like the recent updates.

[HellHeater]

I don't know what changed in Klei, but last few updates has been really fun for me. A year and a half ago I could not choose any character because I did not really enjoy any of them. However, new skill trees, new bosses and new content has been really amazing so far (with small things that can be very easily fixed in the world settings). Now, I feel kind of guilty for playing one character because there is always a lot of other characters just as fun to play. Good work Klei, keep it up. 

PS: Considering you guys managed to make even Willow a fun character to play, I can't wait to see what you're cooking up with Maxwell skill tree.

[Frosty_Mentos]

The game post ruins usually practically was at it's end, I can only agree that the game has been improving lategame fun wise that everything post ruins-type of lategame is updating into an actually more fleshed out gameplay. Getting new powerful structures and buildings for the sake of quality of life is a big plus from me. I wonder how far update wise we can go with rift content.

[Maxil20]

I think this is what a lot of people miss when people discuss characters being “too powerful”, because most of them were quite boring prior. I played Webber for a good 3-4 years, not because he had any perk I cared about, but because he was my favorite personality wise. Other characters perks to me hardly mattered, especially later on. The characters I might swap to for a bit was Wicker for reading books, Winona for mass refining boards, and Warly for some dishes.

Nowdays, I feel much more compelled to play as other characters. I consistently play Wanda for warping around, but I could also play Maxwell for collecting/harvesting resources with a lot of storage to boot! Or I could play Wormwood to do fun crop shenenagins and benefits from passive bloom! Or I could play Woodie for mass logging sessions! Or I could play Willow if I wanna be the fire mage everyone wants to be!

There feels like a lot more incentive to play other characters. Does it make the game easier? Yes, I suppose. But what’s important is also if a character feels fun to play or not. Sure, I could play Wolf and do 2X damage to anything, but that isn’t really something I enjoy doing too much. Doing things like Maxwell’s shadow summons or Wanda’s Warping Magic feels exponentially more enjoyable to me then going around and being mostly the same as Wilson except killing things in around half the time.

[Scrimbles]

1 hour ago, Maxil20 said:

I think this is what a lot of people miss when people discuss characters being “too powerful”, because most of them were quite boring prior. I played Webber for a good 3-4 years, not because he had any perk I cared about, but because he was my favorite personality wise. Other characters perks to me hardly mattered, especially later on. The characters I might swap to for a bit was Wicker for reading books, Winona for mass refining boards, and Warly for some dishes.

Nowdays, I feel much more compelled to play as other characters. I consistently play Wanda for warping around, but I could also play Maxwell for collecting/harvesting resources with a lot of storage to boot! Or I could play Wormwood to do fun crop shenenagins and benefits from passive bloom! Or I could play Woodie for mass logging sessions! Or I could play Willow if I wanna be the fire mage everyone wants to be!

There feels like a lot more incentive to play other characters. Does it make the game easier? Yes, I suppose. But what’s important is also if a character feels fun to play or not. Sure, I could play Wolf and do 2X damage to anything, but that isn’t really something I enjoy doing too much. Doing things like Maxwell’s shadow summons or Wanda’s Warping Magic feels exponentially more enjoyable to me then going around and being mostly the same as Wilson except killing things in around half the time.

No, people didn't "miss" anything, they hate exactly what you just went on to explain.

You enjoy characters because they are overpowered. People were complaining because characters were becoming overpowered.

This is exactly what a lot of people hated, and none of them are here to complain anymore because Klei hasn't listen to people like us for nearly a decade, and has continued full steam ahead.

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I think this is what a lot of people miss when people discuss characters being “too powerful”, because most of them were quite boring prior. I played Webber for a good 3-4 years, not because he had any perk I cared about, but because he was my favorite personality wise. Other characters perks to me hardly mattered, especially later on. The characters I might swap to for a bit was Wicker for reading books, Winona for mass refining boards, and Warly for some dishes.

Nowdays, I feel much more compelled to play as other characters. I consistently play Wanda for warping around, but I could also play Maxwell for collecting/harvesting resources with a lot of storage to boot! Or I could play Wormwood to do fun crop shenenagins and benefits from passive bloom! Or I could play Woodie for mass logging sessions! Or I could play Willow if I wanna be the fire mage everyone wants to be!

There feels like a lot more incentive to play other characters. Does it make the game easier? Yes, I suppose. But what’s important is also if a character feels fun to play or not. Sure, I could play Wolf and do 2X damage to anything, but that isn’t really something I enjoy doing too much. Doing things like Maxwell’s shadow summons or Wanda’s Warping Magic feels exponentially more enjoyable to me then going around and being mostly the same as Wilson except killing things in around half the time.

Just as you don't understand why someone would want to play as a character that engages with the game's systems and has fun downsides with balanced upsides, I don't understand why you think you can exclusively play as the most overpowered characters.

You like Maxwell now that he's overpowered, uninteresting, and unengaging. I liked Maxwell before his rework, or his early branches of the rework before he got all those buffs over and over again. He went from one of my most played characters, top 3 at least if not top 2 or top 1, to one that I literally never play since he's so boring.

[Waoling]

You can have your own opinion without enforcing it onto other? I both enjoy the character before and after the rework, and while I can understand that you miss the old character you like, I don't really understand why you hate on other for liking the new thing? 

[Captain_Rage]

12 hours ago, HellHeater said:

PS: Considering you guys managed to make even Willow a fun character to play, I can't wait to see what you're cooking up with Maxwell skill tree.

Willow used to be fun to play. +7000 hours of fun. Now it's just another confused potporri of wtf. When Klei are done with this skill tree rambling let's hope that challenges that warranted them in the first play will be added or the game will have completely lost its charm and glory.

[Cheggf]

4 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

When Klei are done with this skill tree rambling let's hope that challenges that warranted them in the first play will be added or the game will have completely lost its charm and glory.

Maybe in 5 years after they're done with the Skill Trees & subsequent Skill Tree Refreshes we can start seeing some actual updates.

[Waoling]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Maybe in 5 years after they're done with the Skill Trees & subsequent Skill Tree Refreshes we can start seeing some actual updates.

What do you mean by actual update?

[MondayNight]

48 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Maxwell ... went from one of my most played characters, top 3 at least if not top 2 or top 1, to one that I literally never play.

The top 3 spots for most played characters were almost always Wendy, Wigfrid and Wilson - sole (and fleeting) exceptions: when character re-works came out. Maxwell was mid tier pickings at best, and that after he got "refurbished". Prior was in lower half of selections, alongside Willow and Webber. His survivability was horrid among casuals and Duelists a bad joke functionality-wise before re-work. "Refurbishment" overcompensated, yes - in the hands of experienced players; yet even so, he still is overshadowed in pick preferences (at the moment of this post) by Wolfgang and Woodie, not accounting the 3 podium positions, always and forever Wendy-Wigfrid-Wilson.

 

26 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Willow used to be fun to play. +7000 hours of fun. Now it's just another confused potporri of wtf. When Klei are done with this skill tree rambling let's hope that challenges that warranted them in the first play will be added or the game will have completely lost its charm and glory.

Willow fun before her re-work? Lol. I wish I've made printscreens of posts in past complaining on-and-on-and-on how she was a deadbeat with nothing going for her, relegated to bottom of character pickings.

As for future challenges, am sure if not all, most bosses and mobs will have post-Rifts mutated Moon variants for Forest shard & Horror forms in Cave shard. Take Crystal DC and Armored Bear for example - complex, hard forms with quirks to handle. Even new Shark on his ice island has intricate fighting patterns. And if you'll write back a "Yoy, they aren't hard at all for me, n00b! Huehuehue!" or something on those lines.. what can I retort except: "Congrats, you're so good you outlived the game's difficulty level. Have fun with your next play endeavor, perhaps something on the line of Elden Ring, Sekiro, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Ninja Gaiden, Sifu, Cuphead if not already did, and beat them flawlessly. You're awesome, a true god of the keyboard, 1337 m@D d@$h Pr0 $k|11z, tip of the hat and a backflip for that!"

 

As for topic at hand, I too enjoy current iteration of characters, with Skill Trees since those trees actually addressed prior forum complains with the re-works. In fact Skills' arrival made me play game a lot more as the characters who received them and be entertained. Regarding game balance philosophy, I fancy middle-of-road approach, compromises between newbie-casual and hardcore Survivalist "try-hard" - with emphasis on strict balance being adjacent to fun/entertaining mechanics.

[Maxil20]

36 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You like Maxwell now that he's overpowered, uninteresting, and unengaging.

You can say current Maxwell is "Overpowered", but saying he is uninteresting and unengaging is being a bit disingenuous. He has a lot more aspects of his kit then he originally had, and a lot of it can lead to interesting dynamics that you can't do as other characters. He's got merits, and strong or not, they are for the most part fun to toy with. The downsides he has didn't magically go away, either. 

I like playing characters that are enjoyable to play and mess around with, especially when those perks shine in the endgame. I understand people might not be happy about that, but that's how I feel. I much prefer a character being unique in their playstyle later on, even if it means their downsides are not the core gimmick of the character anymore.

[Cheggf]

16 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

You can say current Maxwell is "Overpowered", but saying he is uninteresting and unengaging is being a bit disingenuous. He has a lot more aspects of his kit then he originally had, and a lot of it can lead to interesting dynamics that you can't do as other characters. He's got merits, and strong or not, they are for the most part fun to toy with. The downsides he has didn't magically go away, either. 

I like playing characters that are enjoyable to play and mess around with, especially when those perks shine in the endgame. I understand people might not be happy about that, but that's how I feel. I much prefer a character being unique in their playstyle later on, even if it means their downsides are not the core gimmick of the character anymore.

More stuff does not equal more better. Spamming two spells and watching that do everything for you is not engaging. The previous Maxwell was much more interesting and engaging, you actually had to think about how to use your things to help you instead of them just having your spells play the game for you.

[Maxil20]

6 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

More stuff does not equal more better. Spamming two spells and watching that do everything for you is not engaging. The previous Maxwell was much more interesting and engaging, you actually had to think about how to use your things to help you instead of them just having your spells play the game for you.

But that's literally what the old spells did, though. 4 harvesters of 3 loggers/1 digger was the norm, and they would chop and dig for you until you either killed them or they got hit by an incidental treeguard attack. You might have used miners to do some ruins clearing, and duelists if you found a ewecus I suppose.

The new ones have those abilities (including being able to pick items up), along with being much more suited for combat if you equip the right gear for them, and with shadow snares for scaring and extra fuel if they are bunnymen and beardlords. Really the only one I would argue for being way too good is the shadow prison, because of how ridiculously effective it can keep any and all bosses on lockdown.

[Nnumber3]

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

More stuff does not equal more better. Spamming two spells and watching that do everything for you is not engaging. The previous Maxwell was much more interesting and engaging, you actually had to think about how to use your things to help you instead of them just having your spells play the game for you.

Im not sure the maxwell you played back when, but you spammed ONE spell, your workers, (which did the work for you) very complex, other than that he was weaker Wilson with high sanity.

And he does have more than 2 spells, you just don't use them to be as efficient as possible, your not forced to use 10 nightmare fuel to perma trap bee queen, and use 6 duelists, for most players, maxwell is not Op, but I mean every character is OP in the right hands...

[Captain_Rage]

22 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Willow fun before her re-work? Lol. I wish I've made printscreens of posts in past complaining on-and-on-and-on how she was a deadbeat with nothing going for her, relegated to bottom of character pickings.

As for future challenges, am sure if not all, most bosses and mobs will have post-Rifts mutated Moon variants for Forest shard & Horror forms in Cave shard. Take Crystal DC and Armored Bear for example - complex, hard forms with quirks to handle. Even new Shark on his ice island has intricate fighting patterns. And if you'll write back a "Yoy, they aren't hard at all for me, n00b! Huehuehue!" or something on those lines.. what can I retort except: "Congrats, you're so good you outlived the game's difficulty level. Have fun with your next play endeavor, perhaps something on the line of Elden Ring, Sekiro, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Ninja Gaiden, Sifu, Cuphead if not already did, and beat them flawlessly. You're awesome, a true god of the keyboard, 1337 m@D d@$h Pr0 $k|11z, tip of the hat and a backflip for that!"

Yes, this is my sincere opinion. I've been playing Willow in DST for thousands of hours. People on public servers voice the same sentiments that why play that character, it sucks, blahahaa, blaha, yada, yada, Not true. It is fun. It is quirky and perhaps more challenging than playing other characters (I haven't played any others so I wouldn't know, but I still see how they play out). Let's face it, most players suck vehemently at the game, have very limited observational skills, basically never improve and are only after instant gratification. It's no fun that DST is suddenly only catering to them. A game by its nature can still offer challenges if you have played it for ages, even after you have mastered most aspects. You are right however that after having played that much and tackled the same bosses and whatnot in different ways game starts feeling done (the latest bosses are difficult though; you have no idea how tense my fingers were after trying to kill Armored Bearger even after the second attempt, xaxa).

Let's pray together then that there will be additional rift challenges. The game is far from worthless, but most of the old fun has been ruined by the slapped on skills.

I have no intention in playing those games but thank you for the tips. Imagine said games getting super easy difficulty levels with autoaim, infinite retries and so on. Would the people who enjoyed them from the start feel much satisfaction? I doubt it.

[Cheggf]

23 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

But that's literally what the old spells did, though. 4 harvesters of 3 loggers/1 digger was the norm, and they would chop and dig for you until you either killed them or they got hit by an incidental treeguard attack. You might have used miners to do some ruins clearing, and duelists if you found a ewecus I suppose.

The new ones have those abilities (including being able to pick items up), along with being much more suited for combat if you equip the right gear for them, and with shadow snares for scaring and extra fuel if they are bunnymen and beardlords. Really the only one I would argue for being way too good is the shadow prison, because of how ridiculously effective it can keep any and all bosses on lockdown.

Old Maxwell managed his minions and engaged with the game, summoning the relevant ones and utilizing them where possible then dismissing them when not needed. You could do things like summon a duelist to take the aggro of spiders, then fight the spiders yourself while they're distracted by the duelist. Modern duelists will just kill every spider on their own while you tab out to play something more fun than Maxwell, automatically dismissing themselves when done.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Waoling said:

What do you mean by actual update?

For me I would like it if Klei just went radio silent for like 6-8 months no betas, no interaction on the forums, just work on one huge meaty update that adds new content to all areas of the game- (Early, Mid, Late) Something like a whole other world to explore similar to the Shipwrecked or Hamlet DLCs from single player Dont Starve.

[HellHeater]

What is wrong with you people I just said I like the new updates.

[Cheggf]

11 hours ago, HellHeater said:

What is wrong with you people I just said I like the new updates.

What's wrong with you? You make a pointless platitude post then get upset when people leave comments. Don't leave a forum post if you don't want to get any comments on it, or just unsubscribe from it immediately. You just said you like the new updates, they just said they don't like the new updates.

[xhyom]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

You just said you like the new updates, they just said they don't like the new updates.

They said a few more things than a simple 'I disagree I didn't like it', I'm afraid

[Sinister_Pig]

I hope they add moonshard merms

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, xhyom said:

They said a few more things than a simple 'I disagree I didn't like it', I'm afraid

Show me one inappropriate comment in this thread by someone who isn't praising the updates.

[HellHeater]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Show me one inappropriate comment in this thread by someone who isn't praising the updates.

Right here:

On 12/3/2023 at 4:56 AM, Cheggf said:

Just as you don't understand why someone would want to play as a character that engages with the game's systems and has fun downsides with balanced upsides, I don't understand why you think you can exclusively play as the most overpowered characters.

You like Maxwell now that he's overpowered, uninteresting, and unengaging. I liked Maxwell before his rework, or his early branches of the rework before he got all those buffs over and over again. He went from one of my most played characters, top 3 at least if not top 2 or top 1, to one that I literally never play since he's so boring.

 

[Pomato]

Welp. Since the introduction of skill trees, researches have found that people have become 114% more easily offended, and 514% more likely to provoke kindergardener fights.

Most think Klei updates DST, but I think they update players instead!

[salty_cookie]

39 minutes ago, Pomato said:

Most think Klei updates DST, but I think they update players instead!

Player skill tree: 

Complain on forums 1,2,3: complain more on forums

Skilltree bad 1.2: explain how bad skilltrees are

Planar hatered 1.2: make another topic planar damage bad

Heres my skill tree for X 1,2,3: suggest skilltrees for X

I quit forums: make a post about why you quit forums

Moderation oversight 1,2,3: your threads stay not locked for longer

[Shadow allignment] JoeW wrath: drag people you disagree with to the constant

[Lunar allignment] 1984: threads you disagree with are closed faster