Willow, too powerful

[Captain_Rage]

1 minute ago, WONTow said:

I like how the community parkoured between "Willow is so weak, she desperately needs a buff" to "nooooo Willow is too strong, something something Maxwell, something something powercreep".

Like holy shud pick one.

Willow has been sitting at the bottom next to Wes for over a decade, let us have this single ounce of morsel for once in our miserable lives. She for once feels completely unique and finally fills a niche and feels fun to play, is that not what everyone wanted for years? Apparently not. Everything has to be completely unfair and brutal and fun isn't allowed anymore.

There are a few lovely people who were saying that Willow is fine and advocated for minimal or no changes. The ones who thought playing Willow was already fun. Weeeee. Guess we got the short end of the straw.

[Swiyss]

2 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

There are a few lovely people who were saying that Willow is fine and advocated for minimal or no changes. The ones who thought playing Willow was already fun. Weeeee. Guess we got the short end of the straw.

Honestly it was fine, it was like a wilson but a bit different, but I didn't mind it. I enjoyed my 500 day world with her a lot. But from one extreme to another is not the right idea. I wouldn't mind some changes, but we got something way too out of pocket now. The mechanics and idea are great so just some fine refining is enough I think. But the sheer amount of power she has feels wayy to much like a MOD to me.

[arubaro]

21 minutes ago, WONTow said:

I like how the community parkoured between "Willow is so weak, she desperately needs a buff" to "nooooo Willow is too strong, something something Maxwell, something something powercreep".

Like holy shud pick one.

Willow has been sitting at the bottom next to Wes for over a decade, let us have this single ounce of morsel for once in our miserable lives. She for once feels completely unique and finally fills a niche and feels fun to play, is that not what everyone wanted for years? Apparently not. Everything has to be completely unfair and brutal and fun isn't allowed anymore.

willow was fine in terms of balance but really needed fire perks

[HowlVoid]

9 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

The system requirements for playing this game went from 100 IQ to about 40 IQ. Seriously, the devs killed the difficulty of the game quite a while ago and it is only getting worse. At this point it is sad to watch.

The difficulty of the game was over for me after I learned about the crockpot...

[Mysterious box]

28 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

I would have definitely pushed back myself if I tested his rework when it was in beta after a few patches. I don't think it's too late to cause change but the change will not be instant if pushback is started now compared to a beta.

Tbf you would have gotten crap for it like I did though 

[arubaro]

9 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

The system requirements for playing this game went from 100 IQ to about 40 IQ. Seriously, the devs killed the difficulty of the game quite a while ago and it is only getting worse. At this point it is sad to watch.

i dont think there are 100IQ dst player in the first place

[Mysterious box]

10 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

The difficulty of the game was over for me after I learned about the crockpot...

I hate how common this comes up one day we're gonna get a full screen nuke and someone's gonna say it's fine because they know how to craft a spear.

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

i dont think there are 100IQ dst player in the first place

What hahaha

[HowlVoid]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I hate how common this comes up one day we're gonna get a full screen nuke and someone's gonna say it's fine because they know how to craft a spear.

The difficulty of a nuke was over for me when I learned crockpots are made of lead

Hide in a crock pot and survive the blast

Ez

[Arcwell]

2 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

The difficulty of a nuke was over for me when I learned crockpots are made of lead

Hide in a crock pot and survive the blast

Ez

We have new technology 

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

We have new technology 

 

My uncle who works at klei leaked Wickerbottom's latest book.

 

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

There are a few lovely people who were saying that Willow is fine and advocated for minimal or no changes. The ones who thought playing Willow was already fun. Weeeee. Guess we got the short end of the straw.

Eh...  No character is staying low power, not even Wilson is vanilla.  She was going to get a lot, that was certain.  idk what to say to this except giving Willow (and other more vanilla characters) new powerful options was kinda the point of opening up skill trees after the refresh cycle ended with a significantly higher power balance.

[Bearger Enjoyer]

1 hour ago, Antynomity said:

Wormwood would like to have a word with you, even after his skill tree he isn't powerful enough considering how much more grindy his downside makes healing to obtain.

I feel like people sleep on bat bats way too hard.

[maxwell_winters]

Just reminder that we pushed for WX-78 to have more downsides during their rework. They got their stats reduced (I still would've preferred 100 on everything) and wetness became much more noticeable. We also pushed for changing the recipes of Wicker's new books to have a higher skill ceiling. I wasn't around during Maxwell's rework beta that much, so I have no idea what happened and why he hasn't received stronger downsides. Ever since, the trend of reduced downsides continue in skill trees. Woodie can just disable full moon transformations and it was his only unique downside.

Imo Willow needs a new downside and Klei should stop being so lax about what Wigfrid can eat. Does she really need banana shakes and ice cream if she has a ton of ways to keep her sane available to her?

[Theukon-dos]

3 hours ago, WONTow said:

I like how the community parkoured between "Willow is so weak, she desperately needs a buff" to "nooooo Willow is too strong, something something Maxwell, something something powercreep".

Like holy shud pick one.

Willow has been sitting at the bottom next to Wes for over a decade, let us have this single ounce of morsel for once in our miserable lives. She for once feels completely unique and finally fills a niche and feels fun to play, is that not what everyone wanted for years? Apparently not. Everything has to be completely unfair and brutal and fun isn't allowed anymore.

Belive it or not, "Willow was severely underpowered after her refresh" and "Klei overcompensated and made Willow noticably overpowered with her skill tree" are two statements that can and should co-exist. In fairness, I don't actually think she's that broken. Fire panic is a bit on the strong side. But otherwise Bernie and her spells are both fairly reasonable. It's really only the shadow flames and the Biden Blast that are a bit overbearing due to their extreme DPS and low cost.

[WenericMember]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I hate how common this comes up one day we're gonna get a full screen nuke and someone's gonna say it's fine because they know how to craft a spear.

Isn't that pretty much just the old bell though? Sure it might not kill some bosses but it pretty much nuked everything else at the time iirc

[lenship2]

1 minute ago, Theukon-dos said:

It's really only the shadow flames and the Biden Blast that are a bit overbearing due to their extreme DPS and low cost.

i think they'd be fine if they cost 20 embers and made you have a damage vulnerability 

[Arcwell]

5 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

It's really only the shadow flames and the Biden Blast that are a bit overbearing due to their extreme DPS and low cost.

I do not consider either of these spells to be particularly cheap.

For example, here's an AG kill with shadow affinity that cost 160 embers:

Spoiler

Here's a BQ kill with lunar affinity that cost 170 embers:

Spoiler

The strength of the spells themselves are debatable but I really don't agree with the idea of it being too cheap and/or that it should be made more expensive.

[Theukon-dos]

7 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I do not consider either of these spells to be particularly cheap.

For example, here's an AG kill with shadow affinity that cost 160 embers:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Here's a BQ kill with lunar affinity that cost 170 embers:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The strength of the spells themselves are debatable but I really don't agree with the idea of it being too cheap and/or that it should be made more expensive.

I mean, that's still pretty easy I'd say. Shadow flame is probably fine then. But 170 embers for one of the hardest bosses in the game? That's like, 20 minutes of ember farming I'd wager. Maybe 30.

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, Theukon-dos said:

I mean, that's still pretty easy I'd say. Shadow flame is probably fine then. But 170 embers for one of the hardest bosses in the game? That's like, 20 minutes of ember farming I'd wager. Maybe 30.

Compared to Wolfgang spamming pan flutes, or Maxwell with shadow prisons - is it really an outlier?

[Nnumber3]

I think you guys forgot that you need to play 160 days with willow and beat both final bosses for her to reach full potential.

I mean you invested the time for the perks, is it a crime that they be good.

 With the whole farming embers things, thats like saying that hunger is irrelevant as you can grow it in large amount in a relativity short amount of time,or health

Your only considering the absoulte full poential for you to ring the OP alarm, willow is never always superpowered. 70% of the time she is good but not Wolfgang level.

With the time your farming spiders for embers, Wendy already killed bq. and with the glands for healing salves, plus a marble suit or 2, you can tank a boss without her spells

 

[Mysterious box]

46 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

i think they'd be fine if they cost 20 embers and made you have a damage vulnerability 

That would be far too extreme unless you gain embers faster.

[Yuuko]

How about this =>  There is talk about issues with fire not spreading.  I feel like a good amount of people would prefer if fires still spread, but maybe only mobs on fire did not spread.

If loot that drops smoldering was able to spread fire traditionally then doing bee and spider farms would take a lot more setup b/c there is risk as the panic mobs spread out and their loot smolders causing a fire risk.  In this way there is risk to go with farming like this - and if you have a good setup to work around this, well you're probably late game and having embers is not really a question.

[Theukon-dos]

42 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Compared to Wolfgang spamming pan flutes, or Maxwell with shadow prisons - is it really an outlier?

Pan flutes are expensive as hell. Once you use all the mandrakes in your world, you either need to use green gems to preserve them, or get lucky with a Klaus sack.

 

And Maxwell? He can go [This statement has been redacted for the safety of general audiences] himself.

[Guille6785]

10 hours ago, Antynomity said:

I love how we went from a meta where the most powerful things a character could do was either double damage and a speed boost OR generating mountains of food OR a big speedboost + winter protection + darkness protection that required upkeep to whatever tf it is now.

we didn't go from a "meta" to anything because there was never such a thing in the first place, this is a sandbox with no explicit objectives besides survival