Extremely disappointed

[BalkanCockroach]

7 minutes ago, yanhuaf said:

this is kind of meaningless...wolfgang's gym was more likely to be a way to stay strong around your base, but I haven't see any information about wigfrid could increase inspiration just riding on beefalo. Is there any skill about that?

I guess thats kind of offensive. its just a beta release, everyone should be able express their opinion about it to help dst.

How is me pointing out a solution to a dear friend is offensive, It's not like im silencing anyone, i can't even if i wanted to. Also by definiton i just stated MY opinion of her opinion.

3 minutes ago, Lovens said:

How is Nightmare Werepig considered an NPC? You can't interact with it other than fight it. If anything, I thought you would say Antlion is a second NPC boss because it has another interaction (you can appease her instead of killing). I suppose Pig King is another NPC we both forgot to mention. I would overall go as far as not categorising things that kill players or can be killed by players as NPCs as all. 

The beta that it was introduced, it was introduced as an NPC it was in the devs post. But yeah i forgor about Pig King AND queen of moon quay too.

[Arcwell]

2 minutes ago, Lovens said:

How is Nightmare Werepig considered an NPC?

Klei said so

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Lovens said:

How is Nightmare Werepig considered an NPC? You can't interact with it other than fight it. If anything, I thought you would say Antlion is a second NPC boss because it has another interaction (you can appease her instead of killing). I suppose Pig King is another NPC we both forgot to mention. I would overall go as far as not categorising things that kill players or can be killed by players as NPCs as all. 

Don’t forget the seasonal overgrown talking crows, The Moon Quay Queen & the Beefalo Judging Contest Trade Inn Guy.

[HowlVoid]

3 hours ago, Dextops said:

The skill trees have been absolutely amazing so far, these ones especially blew my expectations out of the window. I’m extremely thankful Klei has decided to go ahead with this, but hopefully the next update will be a content update so people who don’t like skill trees are satiated.

Second, the skill trees are almost something above refresh 2.0.

It's like the refreshes were a trial version, and the skill trees are the real deal. The refreshes were a foundation for feedback of what we would like to see in our favorite characters. The skill trees give the team so much freedom in allowing all kinds of abilities without creating powercreep and allowing us to pick what we want. 

Unlike the refreshes that sometimes left us hanging, Klei seems to get it right every time now. 

[BalkanCockroach]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Don’t forget the seasonal overgrown talking crows, The Moon Quay Queen & the Beefalo Judging Contest Trade Inn Guy.

Mockingbirds on the a little drama stage  talk too if that's the criteria.

[Lovens]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Don’t forget the seasonal overgrown talking crows, The Moon Quay Queen & the Beefalo Judging Contest Trade Inn Guy.

I suppose bunnymen from the sleepover event qualify as well? That's a lot of NPCs actually, but the ones from the events are not present at all times. 

3 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Klei said so

That's weird, I guess one of the reasons they did it because it has dialogue? But so does Ancient Fuelweaver and he is just a boss. Maybe at the time of that post devs also didn't want to spoil beforehand that it's a boss encounter (not sure why, people found out about that fairly quickly). 

[BalkanCockroach]

1 minute ago, Lovens said:

I suppose bunnymen from the sleepover event qualify as well? That's a lot of NPCs actually, but the ones from the events are not present at all times. 

That's weird, I guess one of the reasons they did it because it has dialogue? But so does Ancient Fuelweaver and he is just a boss. Maybe at the time of that post devs also didn't want to spoil beforehand that it's a boss encounter (not sure why, people found out about that fairly quickly). 

I'm guessing it's cause it will carry some importance in the future. Same with Sharkboi, cause when we defeat it, it starts walking ignoring us and can't be attacked. They'll probably make that a questline or somethin.

[cropo]

Bernie usually ended up becoming more trouble than he's worth most of the time. You had to be in a state of insanity, now with a normal character you'd just kill the shadow creatures and move on with the sanity restoration giving you a brief respite from the encounters. BERNIE just pulls them constantly, does not gives you sanity, and if you don't want to lose BERNIE you have to help him out and hopefully land the killing blow to get your sanity back or just let Bernie eventually succumb.

 

His large health pool was kind of a waste when fighting other monsters, because he basically turns every fight into a 4v1, and if he dies then you basically just brought in more enemies to deal with, it was usually better to just not rely on him in most situations and deal with it like every other character, or station him near your base to passively farm NM fuel where you can keep an eye on him and repair him by quickly changing sanity to sew him back together then regoing insane. 

 

It was better to just throw down a bunch of bernies at a boss fight and simply not care if they die to aggro shadow creatures during boss fights, the problem here is that any sensible player is using sanity restoration on boss fights that ''matter'' to prevent this kind of dangerous situation from happening at all. Bernie was so limited in application and required babysitting on a level that didn't pay off. Then lunar content comes and Bernie couldn't even be used when enlightened, which would arguably be far more useful to draw gestalts because they do no damage and are annoying, being able to distract the rifts mobs would have been an amazing role for Bernie, but nope can't have that.

 

Without the skill tree Bernie was just really lacking. I like an implementation of it that lets you change Bernie's attributes to be more self-sustaining and give him more of a presence than being a side-gimmick that you occasionally could use to farm some NM fuel.

[yanhuaf]

9 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

How is me pointing out a solution to a dear friend is offensive, It's not like im silencing anyone, i can't even if i wanted to. 

for a game system, I dont think just not using it could cover all the disadvantages. Hows wormwood skill tree increased his power compared to wolfgangs? wolfgang has already being one of the most "balance breaker" and the strongest character in the game and klei was keep giving him enhance before other "weaker" character like webber and walter got their skill tree.

14 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Also by definiton i just stated MY opinion of her opinion.

you are right. I guess Im being kind irrational looking at the beefalo skill tree of wigfrid, but I still stick to my point that skill tree(not only wigfrid and willow's) need some modify.

[cropo]

1 minute ago, yanhuaf said:

you are right. I guess Im being kind irrational looking at the beefalo skill tree of wigfrid, but I still stick to my point that skill tree(not only wigfrid and willow's) need some modify

Why is everyone against Beefalo skill tree? She can give them planar damage and planar defense, that's a character-specific modifier she can give them that gives them an endgame presence. 

 

Beefalo also synergize extremely well with Wigfrid, they only eat leafs, she only eats meats. She can give all of her greenery output to them.  There is also likely to be more ranged-type enemies in the future that attack the player rather than the beefalo, which she would still need her own defensive modifiers for. 

[BalkanCockroach]

3 minutes ago, yanhuaf said:

Hows wormwood skill tree increased his power compared to wolfgangs? wolfgang has already being one of the most "balance breaker" and the strongest character in the game and klei was keep giving him enhance before other "weaker" character like webber and walter got their skill tree.

It's gonna take a long time but after everyone gets their refre- oop i mean skill trees, Wolfgang isn't gonna be the best it's just gonna be the default powercrept character. If they were to keep Wig and Willow like this and not nerf them, I'd say they are on par with Wolf. Especially with Wigs new spear, i see so much potential with that.

Also Wormwood did get good perks, it's just that he isn't a combat character. There are some really scrappy people using his husk very good still.

[yanhuaf]

2 minutes ago, cropo said:

Why is everyone against Beefalo skill tree? She can give them planar damage and planar defense, that's a character-specific modifier she can give them that gives them an endgame presence. 

there's other character who was more fit with beefalo like wendy, even wilson was more comfortable to fight on it, because wigfrid's damage multiplier does not work. I think that was one of her most unique ability. and wigfrid still need to use vegatable while cooking something like Pierogi for herself.

planar damage and planar defense was needed to all character while they fight on beefalo, but its being a "patent" of wigfrid right now.

4 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Also Wormwood did get good perks, it's just that he isn't a combat character. There are some really scrappy people using his husk very good still.

yeah I mean wormwood needs to increase his power at some other part of the game, like health recover. 20 second for 1hp was too less - other character could get material for at least 2 Trail Mix in 1 day that heals you by 60, and wormwood's skill makes him recover at most 24. 

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

This

The future is now old man /jk

Personally, I don't see how it's not simple. The skills trees seem to add some new stuff but they also work upon a lot of the old stuff. Bernie and combat equipment for wig isn't anything new. That isn't inherently a bad thing, including reusing UI. 

Let's not forget a lot of people though these skill trees were going to take a long time. Reusing assets in a convenient and deliberate way (using it where it fits) is intuitive for development. Lots of games do this.

[BalkanCockroach]

2 minutes ago, yanhuaf said:

there's other character who was more fit with beefalo like wendy, even wilson was more comfortable to fight on it, because wigfrid's damage multiplier does not work. I think that was one of her most unique ability. and wigfrid still need to use vegatable while cooking something like Pierogi for herself.

planar damage and planar defense was needed to all character while they fight on beefalo, but its being a "patent" of wigfrid right now.

yeah I mean wormwood needs to increase his power at some other part of the game, like health recover. 20 second for 1hp was too less - other character could get material for at least 2 Trail Mix in 1 day that heals you by 60, and wormwood's skill makes him recover at most 24. 

Well he doesn't have to be a combat character he has his uses, more on the support side but he does. He can also eat unlimited taffy lol sugar rush.

[yanhuaf]

klei was always too cautious of some numbers. Wilson has permanent ±10% bonus, and wigfrid has to use her song but only get 5%? I know they may considered multiplayer situation, but most of the time 2-4 experienced player was already enough for easily slaughter any boss--and wigfrid's song only gives 10-15% bonus, which makes her song bonus almost same to wilson but she still have to sing for this.

[mykenception]

4 hours ago, Zima Blue said:

Woah, you think it's going on the wrong direction for this long and you're still committed to the game? May I ask what you enjoy about the game? Because disliking the development since release and still playing is kinda strange lol

no they don't actually play DST, they just log in for the skins. And is just in the DST forums just to complain

[mykenception]

6 hours ago, BezKa said:

Instead of posting a comment in every thread about the skill trees that is going to be made, I'm just gonna say here and now it's unbelievably sad to see Klei going ahead with this.

And locking such a cool looking saddle behind a skill tree. rip

At least the animation about Wigfrid and Willow together would be absolutely lovely to see, I hope they get to wreak absolute havoc.

so I'm guessing we'll get this post everytime a new skill tree drops for a character then

[cybers2001]

6 hours ago, BezKa said:

Might be confusing, yeah, but I'm strictly in the "Skill Trees are Bad in general and Klei is running out of time to backpedal and remove them" camp. Skill trees are really bad and detrimental to the game, and people accepting them with open arms is just sad to watch.

So people accept it and, dare say, enjoy it, but you personally don’t like it, so it’s bad and detrimental? I’ll be busy enjoying the content, but I’ll also be sad for you, bro.

[Antynomity]

8 hours ago, Dextops said:

Snip

The previous skill trees better be revisited in the future, because compared to these new ones, 3/4 of them are bland and uninspired imo.

Anyways, as I see it, the reason why people accept skill trees is because of how bad the reworks truly were, only a couple of them weren't stinkers and those ones made the character rosters further unbalanced, the old character meta synergies were gone. I am also against skill trees, but hopefully all future ones are as good as these, also for the sake of everything holy, if you need to take out stuff from the base kit of any overpowered/powercrept character to make the tree useful and uniqe, please do so Klei. We don't need more of what Wolfgang got.

[Pomato]

6 hours ago, Szczuku said:

This. Like, what happened to simplicity? This feels like the gaming equivalent of young people constantly having to switch between instagram and tiktok the moment they have some spare time; the gamer's engagement span hits rock bottom if they are not constantly blasted with in-depth mechanics and 40 different paths and choices to make. If a character doesn't redefine the game's genre, then what's the point of playing them.

I get it, Willow needed a bonus rework. But for crying out loud, she got Maxwell's spellcasting (literally reskinning his ui) with a unique 'mana bar'-like mechanic in the form of embers

What kind of abomiantions are we going to end up with once Walter's, Wanda's and Wurt's skill trees roll around? These characters are already overbloated with perks.

Dang it why do you have to speak of the elephant in the room?! This truth makes me so sad.

[Frashaw27]

5 hours ago, yanhuaf said:

~snip~

From what I understand, all alignment options comes with the 10% bonuses and songs wigfrid has instead just boost those stats further.

[somethin]

9 hours ago, Szczuku said:

snip

Well, when you look at Wormwood whose mechanics are much more complex than most characters even before skill tree, honestly? It probably going to turn out fine. And for your point about how op the already op characters going to be, there's Wolf's tree. Basically just qol and buffs to make his damage up to speed with the new planar mechanics. So... yeah. 

[BezKa]

5 hours ago, mykenception said:

so I'm guessing we'll get this post everytime a new skill tree drops for a character then

Yeah, as opposed to the alternative where I go into people's threads and complain there. I'd say that's a tolerable outcome.

5 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

So people accept it and, dare say, enjoy it, but you personally don’t like it, so it’s bad and detrimental? I’ll be busy enjoying the content, but I’ll also be sad for you, bro.

I posted a list of reasons why it's bad. It's not just because I don't like it. Don't put words in my mouth.

And thank you for being sad for me. I could really use some comfort.

[_zwb]

8 hours ago, cropo said:

She can give them planar damage and planar defense,

That's one reason to go against it. Planar damage pre rifts contradicts with previous design.

[Hungry French]

16 hours ago, Zima Blue said:

That's odd, for me whenever I click once on the icon and close it, it disappears. 

Apparently I'm not lucky

 

16 hours ago, Zima Blue said:

Woah, you think it's going on the wrong direction for this long and you're still committed to the game? May I ask what you enjoy about the game? Because disliking the development since release and still playing is kinda strange lol

There are a lot of good things in the game. But the multiplayer direction... changing the overall focus of the game from survival to building mega bases and killing almost 20 bosses ...
the game is still good, but various factors make it not as interesting as it could be.