Extremely disappointed

[_zwb]

5 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I just mean that everything in life is bland once creative mode is enabled 

we as humans seek challenge

that's why there needs to be a survival mode, and a creative mode, and we already have that, but klei is balancing the game with no downsides in the survival section. Don't like it? Disable it. that is it.

How would you design a "faithful" survival mode then? What would the gameplay loop be after survival needs are fulfilled(compared to megabasing)?

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, _zwb said:

How would you design a "faithful" survival mode then? What would the gameplay loop be after survival needs are fulfilled(compared to megabasing)?

I would argue that a good mechanic is making every single already existing mob and/or creature in the game either different or harder.

Add new monster that do the exact same thing as hounds.

A new npcs that help you survive better, and help the team/crew get over some difficult problems.

Rework old mechanics of early game so they're not that easy to overcome.

Besides that, the only thing that they are spot on in my opinion are the bosses, everything about the bosses being added is perfect, but the game balance is going out of the celling with these stupid overpowered mechanics and new things being added. feels like a mod, feels like a cheated and better version of everything we accomplished so far.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Thing is it isn't just leechers plenty of people who contribute resources fall into that category even on long term pubs there's not much needed for basic survival heck just a Wendy sitting afk by some flowers with Abigial enraged is enough to be considered a decent source of food there comes a point and it's very very early into a world where you've done everything or have gotten so many resources that you have nothing you need this happens in both short and long term bases.

That's why I've mentioned "serious player into DST's challenges". What you point at are bulk player-base people, aka casuals relatively experienced (various degrees). They just go with the flow, have no concrete plan most times, and amount to a lot of play-style variety, often hectic. But the common thing is: they play for short sessions, usually 30 min to 1h. What can you do in that amount of time as a somewhat experienced casual? Some dogs will come, maybe a DC and/or Bear. You still have to manage personal stats that fall under Survival. And there comes the communal camp you find on most servers. If you build a "fortress of resources" to safeguard you against the world's problems.. congrats, that's DST's road from scarcity to "the horn of plenty". And of course there are pests coming for your "horn of plenty": fire Dogs, Lord of Fruitflies & its minions, Grass Lizards "up and away" your tufts, Spider Infestation (that I find on majority of servers out there from mid-game onward), Antlion, Summer smoldering, etc.. and least but not last mentioned "relatively experienced casuals". But the crux of matter is: cumulative threats - that's biggest killer from mid-game on. For you, as an advanced experienced player that may also had read/watched plenty tutorials and the like, akin to what "because they don't come from a gameplay developer background. I used to listen to 20 hour videos on WoW balance dude" lad mentions (lol, much expectations from bulk players, eh?), what default DST offers becomes indeed trivial. But players like you aren't bulk and core, the target audience. You probably would be more entertained, as I've wrote to you in past, by "try-hard" mods like "Uncompromising Mode" where punishment for sake of punishment is "le rule du jour". Its Ethos is of the "Giant non-stop Survival Battle Arena" variety. If such global balance would come from early game to DST, would simply "destroy" majority of bulk player-base and with that KLei's revenue.

I for one am patient; my philosophy is for "middle of road" balance, in between, where both casuals and experienced get their fair reasonable share, not skewing into extremes. Indeed I would fancy for Survival side of DST to get some progression in late-game (early-to-mid game is ok how's now, no need for re-balance shenanigans there), and what I've seen via Crystal DC, Armored Bear, Moon Zombie Varg, namely Rift content.. gives me hope. Remains to be seen what future DST will bring. "Less memes (Monkey Pirates), more heart (Moon Mutation/Horror Transformations)". Plus complex combat late-game, we can already see that via Forge ports like Wigfrid's Lighting Spear attack or new Shark boss.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

That's why I've mentioned "serious player into DST's challenges". What you point at are bulk player-base people, aka casuals relatively experienced (various degrees). They just go with the flow, have no concrete plan most times, and amount to a lot of play-style variety, often hectic. But the common thing is: they play for short sessions, usually 30 min to 1h. What can you do in that amount of time as a somewhat experienced casual? Some dogs will come, maybe a DC and/or Bear. You still have to manage personal stats that fall under Survival. And there comes the communal camp you find on most servers. If you build a "fortress of resources" to safeguard you against the world's problems.. congrats, that's DST's road from scarcity to horn of plenty. And of course there are pests coming for your "horn of plenty": fire Dogs, Lord of Fruitflies & its minions, Grass Lizards "up and away" your tufts, Spider Infestation (that I find on majority of servers out there from mid-game onward), Antlion, Summer smoldering, etc.. and least but not last mentioned "relatively experienced casuals". For you, as an advanced experienced player that may also had read/watched plenty tutorials and the like, akin to what "because they don't come from a gameplay developer background. I used to listen to 20 hour videos on WoW balance dude" lad mentions (lol, much expectations from bulk players, eh?), what default DST offers becomes indeed trivial. But players like you aren't bulk and core, the target audience. You probably would be more entertained, as I've wrote to you in past, by "try-hard" mods like "Uncompromising Mode" where punishment for sake of punishment is the "le rule du jour". Its Ethos is of the "Giant non-stop Survival Battle Arena" variety. If such global balance would come from early game to DST, would simply "destroy" majority of bulk player-base and with that KLei's revenue.

I for one am patient; my philosophy is for "middle of road" balance, in between, where both casuals and experienced get their fair share, not skewing into extremes. Indeed I would fancy Survival side of DST to get some progression in late-game (early-to-mid game is ok how's now), and what I've seen via Crystal DC, Armored Bear, Moon Zombie Varg, namely Rift content.. gives me hope. Remains to be seen what future DST will bring. "Less memes (Monkey Pirates), more heart (Moon Mutation/Horror Transformations)". Plus complex combat late-game, we can already see that via Forge ports like Wigfrid's Lighting Spear attack.

I feel like your missing the point you reach the point where you "build a fortress of resources" almost immediately in dst and once you reach that point all that's really left is to fight bosses and build up your base that's not much of a gameplay experience for advanced players is it? Even more so if your someone who isn't interested in boss rushing and megabasing and that's where the boredom can set in there are advanced players but there is no advanced content the gameplay loop remains forever unchanged at it's core and it's not even something that can be changed by just making things harder.

[Swiyss]

32 minutes ago, grm9 said:

in a way those people are smarter and better at life than you, since they don't spend their time on trying to improve and get things done first try on easy mode, spending less time on the game and getting the same amount of enjoyment out of it that you get, because they enjoy even small achievements that others don't consider as achievements. Not as something for arguing about if it's better to play casual games or hard ones, just something to consider as a reason to not consider casuals as an inferior lifeform and not pretend that they pretty much aren't people and for that reason shouldn't have games created for them, like you are doing now 

yes because having to walk around more is a great way to express skill apparently

dude, you make no sense. I'm not saying they can't play the game, they can, just enable/disable things in the setting and make the game just the way YOU want, we already have "creative mode", we already have that feature, so for that reason, why don't we keep the survival aspect of the game normal and balanced? people who change their worlds and rollback or people who play with mods that change the game fundamentally should not influence ideas in the "don't starve standard experience". the standard experience SHOULD be standard. And if you don't like it for some reason you can change it your own way.

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

dude, you make no sense. I'm not saying they can't play the game, they can, just enable/disable things in the setting and make the game just the way YOU want, we already have "creative mode", we already have that feature, so for that reason, why don't we keep the survival aspect of the game normal and balanced? people who change their worlds and rollback or people who play with mods that change the game fundamentally should not influence ideas in the "don't starve standard experience". the standard experience SHOULD be standard. And if you don't like it for some reason you can change it your own way.

i'm saying that you shouldn't be calling them

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

soft people 

 

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

soft babies

 

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

new generation of babies who can't take a challenge

 

[Mike23Ua]

44 minutes ago, _zwb said:

How would you design a "faithful" survival mode then? What would the gameplay loop be after survival needs are fulfilled(compared to megabasing)?

My answer to this would be in world Gen settings and more importantly: Playstyle presets.

if Klei is going to for example: Create a “Relaxed” Mode then make it relaxed, let dangers appear less often, let players not die to darkness, cold, heat, let food be abundant and recipe cards to help learn food dishes be plentiful, heck let the duration of how long pigs will work for you last longer or let the duration of how quickly things de-aggro off you become shorter.

If they want to add a “Creative” Mode where we can design our own worlds placing hazards mobs etc where we want and then upload those experiences to an online server for other players to download (kind like that newly released meet your maker game) then give us FULL CONTROL over what we can place and where, so it’s like playing Minecraft Creative Mode.

But in a mode titled “Survival” The environment, it’s mobs, it’s resources etc should always be challenging us in some significant way.. and currently it just doesn’t do that- Currently.. there’s no real differences between “Endless Mode” & “Survival”

Its OKAY for DST to branch out and be different things-

Just look at Fortnite as an example: it used to be a Battle Royale game, but as of LAST NIGHT they’ve permanently add new modes for Rocket League, Guitar Hero & Lego Survival crafting experiences.

My issue with DST, like the one thing that really gets under my skin: is that even though there ARE Presets/Mode/Difficulty options- They aren’t different enough from one another to even matter.

Lights Out mode is an excellent example, this should’ve had a ton of new mob behavior patterns or even mobs exclusive to this mode that really set it apart from other mode choices.

But regardless of how much I try to explain this on these forums or elsewhere- No one seems to want to take it to heart, and in the end: I just feel like I’ve wasted my time trying to explain it.

[Swiyss]

29 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

That's why I've mentioned "serious player into DST's challenges". What you point at are bulk player-base people, aka casuals relatively experienced (various degrees). They just go with the flow, have no concrete plan most times, and amount to a lot of play-style variety, often hectic. But the common thing is: they play for short sessions, usually 30 min to 1h. What can you do in that amount of time as a somewhat experienced casual? Some dogs will come, maybe a DC and/or Bear. You still have to manage personal stats that fall under Survival. And there comes the communal camp you find on most servers. If you build a "fortress of resources" to safeguard you against the world's problems.. congrats, that's DST's road from scarcity to "the horn of plenty". And of course there are pests coming for your "horn of plenty": fire Dogs, Lord of Fruitflies & its minions, Grass Lizards "up and away" your tufts, Spider Infestation (that I find on majority of servers out there from mid-game onward), Antlion, Summer smoldering, etc.. and least but not last mentioned "relatively experienced casuals". But the crux of matter is: cumulative threats - that's biggest killer from mid-game on. For you, as an advanced experienced player that may also had read/watched plenty tutorials and the like, akin to what "because they don't come from a gameplay developer background. I used to listen to 20 hour videos on WoW balance dude" lad mentions (lol, much expectations from bulk players, eh?), what default DST offers becomes indeed trivial. But players like you aren't bulk and core, the target audience. You probably would be more entertained, as I've wrote to you in past, by "try-hard" mods like "Uncompromising Mode" where punishment for sake of punishment is "le rule du jour". Its Ethos is of the "Giant non-stop Survival Battle Arena" variety. If such global balance would come from early game to DST, would simply "destroy" majority of bulk player-base and with that KLei's revenue.

I for one am patient; my philosophy is for "middle of road" balance, in between, where both casuals and experienced get their fair reasonable share, not skewing into extremes. Indeed I would fancy for Survival side of DST to get some progression in late-game (early-to-mid game is ok how's now, no need for re-balance shenanigans there), and what I've seen via Crystal DC, Armored Bear, Moon Zombie Varg, namely Rift content.. gives me hope. Remains to be seen what future DST will bring. "Less memes (Monkey Pirates), more heart (Moon Mutation/Horror Transformations)". Plus complex combat late-game, we can already see that via Forge ports like Wigfrid's Lighting Spear attack or new Shark boss.

Listen here dude. I played uncompromising. in my opinion, after some time, the mod kinda sucks. it's hard just because.. That's bad design. I don't like to suffer for 40 days to instantly enter insane bonkers overpowered mode. that's a bad design. I'm comparing DST to those games because the game is currently flowing around this RPG idea, and I'm just here to improve on that idea.

I don't wanna rule what needs to happen or not, it's just that when I had no experience, when I sucked at the game, when I couldn't kill a single boss, when I couldn't kill fuelweaver no matter how many times I tried it, I didn't asked Klei to make it easier for me to beat it, because there was always rollback mechanics available for me if I wanted to, there was always world setting available to me. 

I didn't asked them to make it easier because I trusted the game design. If 1 dude can do it, then I can do it too. Then in my opinion, late game should be balanced around the 5%-1% who can do it and don't feel scared by it.

The game is literally a dark souls indie with survival mechanics in my point of view, and it is amazing, and the rpg side of it fits the game almost completely, but currently there are too many overpowered things in the game or things that don't make sense because they require low effort or no effort at all.

I read everything you typed here, and My reason for saying that I have some experience in the balanced world is not to brag, not to make myself feel great about it, not see other people praising me, I have principles. It was just to show MY perspective on things, and as long as someone can't prove me wrong or debate me in those things, I'll always feel like is the right thing, because they proved me great results along my testings.

DST is not trivial to me, DST was always hard, and I can ALWAYS put more hard work and challenge into MYSELF, and people can always make the game easier for THEMSELVES. but the STANDARD DST EXPERIENCE should be balanced for that sake.

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i'm saying that you shouldn't be calling them

 

 

 

Sorry if that offends you, that's just the way I use to describe their train of tought. And people shouldn't be offended by these simple words, right? It was the best way I had to describe them

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

My answer to this would be in world Gen settings and more importantly: Playstyle presets.

if Klei is going to for example: Create a “Relaxed” Mode then make it relaxed, let dangers appear less often, let players not die to darkness, cold, heat, let food be abundant and recipe cards to help learn food dishes be plentiful, heck let the duration of how long pigs will work for you last longer or let the duration of how quickly things de-aggro off you become shorter.

If they want to add a “Creative” Mode where we can design our own worlds placing hazards mobs etc where we want and then upload those experiences to an online server for other players to download (kind like that newly released meet your maker game) then give us FULL CONTROL over what we can place and where, so it’s like playing Minecraft Creative Mode.

But in a mode titled “Survival” The environment, it’s mobs, it’s resources etc should always be challenging us in some significant way.. and currently it just doesn’t do that- Currently.. there’s no real differences between “Endless Mode” & “Survival”

Its OKAY for DST to branch out and be different things-

Just look at Fortnite as an example: it used to be a Battle Royale game, but as of LAST NIGHT they’ve permanently add new modes for Rocket League, Guitar Hero & Lego Survival crafting experiences.

My issue with DST, like the one thing that really gets under my skin: is that even though there ARE Presets/Mode/Difficulty options- They aren’t different enough from one another to even matter.

Lights Out mode is an excellent example, this should’ve had a tone of new mob behavior patterns or even mobs exclusive to this mode that really set it apart from other mode choices.

But regardless of how much I try to explain this on these forums or elsewhere- No one seems to want to take it to heart, and in the end: I just feel like I’ve wasted my time trying to explain it.

that's absolutely true, the standard don't starve experience shouldn't be that much influence by the community, but the devs themselves that need to figure it out what they want and be resilient about it. They need to have endurance and reject if something goes too much to one side, or the other. Nothing in the game should be "too much", but just enough.

and as of right now, lately I FEEL (just my opinion) that they are doing everything people want, even if it's detrimental. "just give them what they want and make money with it" was how I saw most games die by my very own eyes.(not that much what they're doing, but just putting this out here to make you think)

And if the devs want the game to feel "unbalanced" and they think that we shouldn't have downsides and challenges and hard thing in the standard dst experience, then who am I to tell them what to do right? I just saw this story write itself already, and the end is not that great.

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Sorry if that offends you, that's just the way I use to describe their train of tought. And people shouldn't be offended by these simple words, right? It was the best way I had to describe them

nah it's clear that you're trying to express negativity towards them, those names are definitely offensive and i doubt that you didn't know that word "casual", meaning "casual player", exists 

[Swiyss]

Just now, grm9 said:

nah it's clear that you're trying to express negativity towards them, those names are definitely offensive and i doubt that you didn't know that word "casual", meaning "casual player", exists 

I'm not an english speaker, I'm from Brazil and am using google translate, so some cultural differences here might play out.

here we use the some terms that in translation would get me banned from typing here

I don't want to express negativity towards THEM. but I want to say the their IDEAS are NEGATIVE instead. if you get what I mean.

and also, someone who makes the game too HARD (other side of the expectrum) also had IDEAS that will be NEGATIVE and DETRIMENTAL to the game's current health

7 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I'm not an english speaker, I'm from Brazil and am using google translate, so some cultural differences here might play out.

here we use the some terms that in translation would get me banned from typing here

I don't want to express negativity towards THEM. but I want to say the their IDEAS are NEGATIVE instead. if you get what I mean.

and also, someone who makes the game too HARD (other side of the expectrum) also had IDEAS that will be NEGATIVE and DETRIMENTAL to the game's current health

Also, if they wanna be "soft" and play soft gameplay they should, but they shouldn't force the base game to be the way THEY like the game to be played. the idea of altering the world to your settings was there to fix this, and we're kinda losing this idea into the mix by making the skill tree feel like MODs from people that like things to be overpowered.

there is nothing bad with this, it's just that the people who always have played the "standard" dst experience WILL eventually feel like the game is not what it used to be, it's not balanced anymore. Some things should be optional, not unavoidable. 

"just don't level up skill trees" is the worst tought someone can give me. because in the balance of the game, if I don't "level up the skill trees" I will be removing reality from my own eyes instead of distorting it, you know what I mean?

I will be blinding myself from reality instead of changing reality.

[MondayNight]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel like your missing the point you reach the point where you "build a fortress of resources" almost immediately in dst and once you reach that point all that's really left is to fight bosses and build up your base that's not much of a gameplay experience for advanced players is it? Even more so if your someone who isn't interested in boss rushing and megabasing and that's where the boredom can set in there are advanced players but there is no advanced content the gameplay loop remains forever unchanged at it's core and it's not even something that can be changed by just making things harder.

And, as I've pointed, there are things coming for your "fortress of resources" even in early-game. For bulk player-base is a fair balance. For advanced experienced players? Certainly not. For them comes into picture the Moon/Shadow arc(s). You want to stay longer into the early-game stage but have all dangers ramped up from ... day 5-10 or something? Proportional to how much "fortress of resources" you got? Perhaps some Hay Boss to spawn from your tufts and suffocate you with spores because you dared plant 10 meager plants in one spot? An Uber-FlyLord from your more-than-4 plots of farm-soil that spits acid on your Wilson, melting his face? Rats, like "Uncompromising", vandalizing your puny day-10 base? Do you fancy UM's Rats?

As for late-game, sky's the limit.. or rather, KLei's willingness. Rifts so far, as stated, provide interesting prospects. Once more: I patiently wait for "From Beyond"s conclusion. And by no means am disappointed looking at Armored Bear, Crystal DC, Ink Blights. Plus I want (multiple) solutions for the new problems, not solely "brute suffering" like some people seem to fancy. What would be the fun of an Acid Rain that melts everything in seconds? Not to engage with it, aka not going to Caves. Or for basically meteors falling on your Cave camp - aka everywhere on 1-screen distance, not how's now, just falls over your character? Again, not camp in Caves. Ever. Or for a Hail that kills everything in sight? Not have any animal anymore. Is that fun to you? Because for me means solely restrictions in play-style. Restrictions some people were supporting eagerly. People that probably nomad in-game and reset worlds after rushing everything, aka once around 150-200 days mark - to make it even more funny for the rest of players and play-styles. Fun fun under the exploding sun.

 

49 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Then in my opinion, late game should be balanced around the 5%-1% who can do it and don't feel scared by it.

Maybe. Depends who's your model. I'm part of the 1-5%. What could do me in in such a late-game balance scenario? Probably dog-packs that act like Fw. A buffed Shadow Boss Varg spawning countless vargs, spawning mutated dogs with tp abilities, etc. Oh boy, how fun will be to boss-fight everything late-game. Building anything? Nope, I got Boss Pigman to fight. After it is Boss Lizard. Following Buffed-to-kingdom-come Cat. All coming at me from all directions all time. Wow, what a fine Boss Rush Battle Arena. Because for me, that will do me in for sure in the end, legs in the air like I really do care. Or maybe those Boss Rushers from the namesake site can be template? What can do them in if they can speedrun Fw with 3 Football Helmets, Hambat, some roasted Cacti and no Lazy TP? I'm afraid of the answer, if they'll be the model in late-game re-balance.

Yes, I exaggerate for comedic purpose.

As stated: from playing with current Rift mutated bosses, I'm quite satisfied with what KLei has done.

Still, if I strive for objectivity, plants need nerfs. Bananas in Winter? Haha, funny joke. Solely Summer should be their crop season. Stonefruit Bushes at 1/2 of current yielding speed. Same for Kelp. Transplanted plants do have "diseases" - they're called Brightshades. Pre-Rift? No nerf necessary, since one can camp in DF desert and eat for breakfast-through-dinner stacks of CutGrass&Twigs.

[Mysterious box]

15 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

And, as I've pointed, there are things coming for your "fortress of resources" even in early-game. For bulk player-base is a fair balance. For advanced experienced players? Certainly not. For them comes into picture the Moon/Shadow arc(s). You want to stay longer into the early-game stage but have all dangers ramped up from ... day 5-10 or something? Proportional to how much "fortress of resources" you got? Perhaps some Hay Boss to spawn from your tufts and suffocate you with spores because you dared plant 10 meager plants in one spot? An Uber-FlyLord from your more-than-4 plots of farm-soil that spits acid on your Wilson, melting his face? Rats, like "Uncompromising", vandalizing your puny day-10 base? Do you fancy UM's Rats?

Again your missing the point I'm not saying the early game needs to become hard I'm saying the end game is just a different flavor of the early game but largely unchanged due to the gameplay loop the early game sets up and once again I've already said making the game harder will not solve that. It would need a rework of sorts. I honestly don't get why your pushing so hard for the game to be harder or mentioning the uncomp mod so much when it doesn't have anything to do with what I'm currently discussing with you.

15 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

As for late-game, sky's the limit.. or rather, KLei's willingness. Rifts so far, as stated, provide interesting prospects. Once more: I patiently wait for "From Beyond"s conclusion. And by no means am disappointed looking at Armored Bear, Crystal DC, Ink Blights. Plus I want (multiple) solutions for the new problems, not solely "brute suffering" like some people seem to fancy. What would be the fun of an Acid Rain that melts everything in seconds? Not to engage with it, aka not going to Caves. Or for basically meteors falling on your Cave camp - aka everywhere on 1-screen distance, not how's now, just falls over your character? Again, not camp in Caves. Ever. Or for a Hail that kills everything in sight? Not have any animal anymore. Is that fun to you? Because for me means solely restrictions in play-style. Restrictions some people were supporting eagerly. People that probably nomad in-game and reset worlds after rushing everything, aka once around 150-200 days mark - to make it even more funny for the rest of players and play-styles. Fun fun under the exploding sun.

The sky isn't the limit though the only largely approved late game additions by the community are bosses, mini bosses, and their new rewards it's literally the exact same gameplay loop as early game just harder. You seem to have it hard wired into your head that the only thing we can do besides this is make the game head bangingly hard and you know what? If your right about it then that just shows I'm right about dst being more of a power fantasy action sandbox rather than a survival game and not having anywhere else to go.

[Dragonboooorn]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

i'm saying that you shouldn't be calling them

 

 

 

bah! the enemy team is BABIES

[_zwb]

2 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I would argue that a good mechanic is making every single already existing mob and/or creature in the game either different or harder.

Add new monster that do the exact same thing as hounds.

A new npcs that help you survive better, and help the team/crew get over some difficult problems.

Rework old mechanics of early game so they're not that easy to overcome.

Then what, you concour all of them again and go back to ""creative mode""?

[Swiyss]

41 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

And, as I've pointed, there are things coming for your "fortress of resources" even in early-game. For bulk player-base is a fair balance. For advanced experienced players? Certainly not. For them comes into picture the Moon/Shadow arc(s). You want to stay longer into the early-game stage but have all dangers ramped up from ... day 5-10 or something? Proportional to how much "fortress of resources" you got? Perhaps some Hay Boss to spawn from your tufts and suffocate you with spores because you dared plant 10 meager plants in one spot? An Uber-FlyLord from your more-than-4 plots of farm-soil that spits acid on your Wilson, melting his face? Rats, like "Uncompromising", vandalizing your puny day-10 base? Do you fancy UM's Rats?

As for late-game, sky's the limit.. or rather, KLei's willingness. Rifts so far, as stated, provide interesting prospects. Once more: I patiently wait for "From Beyond"s conclusion. And by no means am disappointed looking at Armored Bear, Crystal DC, Ink Blights. Plus I want (multiple) solutions for the new problems, not solely "brute suffering" like some people seem to fancy. What would be the fun of an Acid Rain that melts everything in seconds? Not to engage with it, aka not going to Caves. Or for basically meteors falling on your Cave camp - aka everywhere on 1-screen distance, not how's now, just falls over your character? Again, not camp in Caves. Ever. Or for a Hail that kills everything in sight? Not have any animal anymore. Is that fun to you? Because for me means solely restrictions in play-style. Restrictions some people were supporting eagerly. People that probably nomad in-game and reset worlds after rushing everything, aka once around 150-200 days mark - to make it even more funny for the rest of players and play-styles. Fun fun under the exploding sun.

 

Maybe. Depends who's your model. I'm part of the 1-5%. What could do me in in such a late-game balance scenario? Probably dog-packs that act like Fw. A buffed Shadow Boss Varg spawning countless vargs, spawning mutated dogs with tp abilities, etc. Oh boy, how fun will be to boss-fight everything late-game. Building anything? Nope, I got Boss Pigman to fight. After it is Boss Lizard. Following Buffed-to-kingdom-come Cat. All coming at me from all directions all time. Wow, what a fine Boss Rush Battle Arena. Because for me, that will do me in for sure in the end, legs in the air like I really do care. Or maybe those Boss Rushers from the namesake site can be template? What can do them in if they can speedrun Fw with 3 Football Helmets, Hambat, some roasted Cacti and no Lazy TP? I'm afraid of the answer, if they'll be the model in late-game re-balance.

Yes, I exaggerate for comedic purpose.

As stated: from playing with current Rift mutated bosses, I'm quite satisfied with what KLei has done.

Still, if I strive for objectivity, plants need nerfs. Bananas in Winter? Haha, funny joke. Solely Summer should be their crop season. Stonefruit Bushes at 1/2 of current yielding speed. Same for Kelp. Transplanted plants do have "diseases" - they're called Brightshades. Pre-Rift? No nerf necessary, since one can camp in DF desert and eat for breakfast-through-dinner stacks of CutGrass&Twigs.

I somewhat agree with you, I don't want uncompromising mode in regular dst. I just don't want the old survival game to keep being pushed out and ignored for the sake of new content being added.

regular DS was literally pigs, spider queen, treeguard and hounds.

those are FORGOTTEN in the past, instead of renewed with the new rifts.

yeah they did deerclops justice, but that's just one point. Why this brightshade thing came to KILL old resources instead of finding NEW ways to implement them? Then now 10 resources are ignored and all farms are useless cause you can rush late game and kill a plant. 

4 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Then what, you concour all of them again and go back to ""creative mode""?

No, because they would get you OUT of your comfort zone. You can't be prepared from the unexpected

they would keep on going at you

 

we can't keep having this idea all the time :

don't participate? no problem.

 

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Also the threat of fire hounds isn't that they hurt you but that they can potentially cause collateral damage them doing more damage isn't going to suddenly make them more threatening unless it's by a large amount and not just when they die even then we as players expect to get hurt it's not surprising or challenging for us to just get hurt more nor does it really effect our survival much.

but neither is a challenge to kill them few steps away of base and let them explode in a barrean area you can easy prepare with few shovel uses or by letting the plants burn in worlds that are ditched few hours later

the benefits of the fire explosion are bigger than the downside in survival worlds so i think that can be improved to be more challenging than helpful as they currently are

[MondayNight]

25 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Again your missing the point I'm not saying the early game needs to become hard I'm saying the end game is just a different flavor of the early game but largely unchanged due to the gameplay loop the early game sets up and once again I've already said making the game harder will not solve that. It would need a rework of sorts. I honestly don't get why your pushing so hard for the game to be harder or mentioning the uncomp mod so much when it doesn't have anything to do with what I'm currently discussing with you.

Then what's your game problem in regards to "I'm extremely disappointed"? That KLei nerfed Acid Rain to not melt your rain-protection items in seconds? Or that Boulders don't fall 1 screen around you like they did? Hail not damaging/killing animals? Because that's what got nerfed, non-mini/-boss related content. Monkey Pirates that don't spawn all time, crash-banging your boat to Swiss Cheese levels? Were those so fun, entertaining, challenging that nerfing them got "your day ruined and disappointment immeasurable"? Character re-balances? (Sorry, I haven't read previous 6 pages, if this was prior addressed.)

Because to me original values for mentioned mechanics/items/etc seemed like KLei was proverbially testing the waters, like in a negotiation. When you haggle your way by proposing an absurd price way above your intended target, just to have wiggle room. The "half/double" rule in gaming balance.

Plus characters before re-balance were very dated, and dead-beaten. They worked in DS where everything was at least 1/2 hp, and armor stacked. In DST.. not so much. People were complaining all time Abi needed control at least, Willow fire immunity back (and some advocated even for inventory burning, lel - a clear cheat, but hey, let's bring it to DST too, heh), Wolf not to eat like a herd of pigs from communal fridge a.s.o.

 

30 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The sky isn't the limit though the only largely approved late game additions by the community are bosses, mini bosses, and their new rewards it's literally the exact same gameplay loop as early game just harder. You seem to have it hard wired into your head that the only thing we can do besides this is make the game head bangingly hard and you know what? If your right about it then that just shows I'm right about dst being more of a power fantasy action sandbox rather than a survival game and not having anywhere else to go.

If KLei didn't take into account majority of people's opinions, then a lot would complain we comment here solely to vent and that's that. Throwing words to brick walls while laughing like madmen. I for one am content with game's state of affairs en large, sans what I've designated in need of nerf balance (plants). Again: what are your punctual problems with DST atm? Skill Trees? Those Acid/Hail/Boulder/Monku nerfs?

 

12 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

regular DS was literally pigs, spider queen, treeguard and hounds.

those are FORGOTTEN in the past, instead of renewed with the new rifts.

yeah they did deerclops justice, but that's just one point. Why this brightshade thing came to KILL old resources instead of finding NEW ways to implement them? Then now 10 resources are ignored and all farms are useless cause you can rush late game and kill a plant. 

I believe, if KLei continues the trend with Rift mutations/morphing (and I see no reason for them to stop at only 3 mobs), almost all creatures will have late-game hard counterparts. Will be good if indeed Pigs, Rabbitmen, Merms became even more intelligent, with more complex behavior patterns after Rifts are activated, to make them more akin to Hamlet's intelligence levels. And, for sure, environmental dangers, new seasons, weather patterns etc. Regarding Brightshades, KLei stated in a past stream they behave so intrusive atm because there aren't more Alter's Rift mobs. The moment more Moon mobs will come out of Rifts (after KLei designs them in future updates), BS spawning rates will be tweaked to not hump crops 24/7.

[Swiyss]

4 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Then what's your game problem in regards to "I'm extremely disappointed"? That KLei nerfed Acid Rain to not melt your rain-protection items in seconds? Or that Boulders don't fall 1 screen around you like they did? Hail not damaging/killing animals? Because that's what got nerfed, non-mini/-boss related content. Monkey Pirates that don't spawn all time, crash-banging your boat to Swiss Cheese levels? Were those so fun, entertaining, challenging that nerfing them got "your day ruined and disappointment immeasurable"? Character re-balances? (Sorry, I haven't read previous 6 pages, if this was prior addressed.)

Because to me original values for mentioned mechanics/items/etc seemed like KLei was proverbially testing the waters, like in a negotiation. When you haggle your way by proposing an absurd price way above your intended target, just to have wiggle room. The "half/double" rule in gaming balance.

Plus characters before re-balance were very dated, and dead-beaten. They worked in DS where everything was at least 1/2 hp, and armor stacked. In DST.. not so much. People were complaining all time Abi needed control at least, Willow fire immunity back (and some advocated even for inventory burning, lel - a clear cheat, but hey, let's bring it to DST too, heh), Wolf not to eat like a herd of pigs from communal fridge a.s.o.

 

If KLei didn't take into account majority of people's opinions, then a lot would complain we comment here solely to vent and that's that. Throwing words to brick walls while laughing like madmen. I for one am content with game's state of affairs en large, sans what I've designated in need of nerf balance (plants). Again: what are your punctual problems with DST atm? Skill Trees? Those Acid/Hail/Boulder/Monku nerfs?

 

I believe, if KLei continues the trend with Rift mutations/morphing (and I see no reason for them to stop at only 3 mobs), almost all creatures will have late-game hard counterparts. Will be good if indeed Pigs, Rabbitmen, Merms became even more intelligent, with more complex behavior patterns after Rifts are activated, to make them more akin to Hamlet's intelligence levels. And, for sure, environmental dangers, new seasons, weather patterns etc. Regarding Brightshades, KLei stated in a past stream they behave so intrusive atm because there aren't more Alter's Rift mobs. The moment more Moon mobs will come out of Rifts (after KLei designs them in future updates), BS spawning rates will be tweaked to not hump crops 24/7.

you give me hope for the future. you eased my mind a bit.

[arubaro]

4 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

That KLei nerfed Acid Rain to not melt your rain-protection items in seconds?

tbh im fine with the change to cloths degradation but feels like a slap in the face to nerf to the ground the damage dealt to characters... at that point of the game, even if you get caught before crafting your 1st umbralla the player can use healing until reach the closest cave entrance and wait the rain to stop to enter again and get the materials for the umbralla

after that you are pretty safe

not saying that before wasnt imba but now is ridiculous for a suppose hard mode mechanic

[MondayNight]

27 minutes ago, arubaro said:

tbh im fine with the change to cloths degradation but feels like a slap in the face to nerf to the ground the damage dealt to characters... at that point of the game, even if you get caught before crafting your 1st umbralla the player can use healing until reach the closest cave entrance and wait the rain to stop to enter again and get the materials for the umbralla

after that you are pretty safe

not saying that before wasnt imba but now is ridiculous for a suppose hard mode mechanic

Yeah, it should've followed that "half/double" rule: should've been halved for further testing. Instead, if I remember correctly, was set to ~10-20% of initial value or the like? But was quite-so very tuned down. Imo maybe could be amped up a bit more from current value, people in late-game can take it. If not 50%, around 30-40% from what it was first released as.

[cybers2001]

Ah yes, megabasers are such soft babies. Clearly they only complain about disease and brightshades because it makes the game too hard, even when they are able to beat the end-game bosses to trigger the rift events in the first place.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Then what's your game problem in regards to "I'm extremely disappointed"? That KLei nerfed Acid Rain to not melt your rain-protection items in seconds? Or that Boulders don't fall 1 screen around you like they did? Hail not damaging/killing animals? Because that's what got nerfed, non-mini/-boss related content. Monkey Pirates that don't spawn all time, crash-banging your boat to Swiss Cheese levels? Were those so fun, entertaining, challenging that nerfing them got "your day ruined and disappointment immeasurable"? Character re-balances? (Sorry, I haven't read previous 6 pages, if this was prior addressed.)

I'ma just answer with no I'm tired of explaining to people who keep assuming what I want and blatantly disregarding what I say on those topics so just leave that there.

2 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Plus characters before re-balance were very dated, and dead-beaten. They worked in DS where everything was at least 1/2 hp, and armor stacked. In DST.. not so much. People were complaining all time Abi needed control at least, Willow fire immunity back (and some advocated even for inventory burning, lel - a clear cheat, but hey, let's bring it to DST too, heh), Wolf not to eat like a herd of pigs from communal fridge a.s.o.

Lets be real here if Klei had given Wendy her flower control ability and nothing else, Webber the ability to control 6 spiders with limitless loyalty while having to maintain those over 6, gave Willow post refresh Willow, gave Woodie back his og ds werebeaver form but kept the him not dropping his inventory while not having released Wurt and Wanda while changing nothing else character wise basically noone would have complained about characters being too weak. It's hard to remember now but originally most people thought Willow had a good refresh until they saw the rest. Even then originally most everyone was fine with the state of most every character before the refreshes started aside from a few who needed small tweaks It's crazy to think we went from something as tame as Willow's refresh to something as overloaded as Maxwell's and now we're going even further beyond.

 

2 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

If KLei didn't take into account majority of people's opinions, then a lot would complain we comment here solely to vent and that's that. Throwing words to brick walls while laughing like madmen. I for one am content with game's state of affairs en large, sans what I've designated in need of nerf balance (plants). Again: what are your punctual problems with DST atm? Skill Trees? Those Acid/Hail/Boulder/Monku nerfs?

Do you just read half of my posts or something I've been saying all day that I'm fine with the direction the game is going the only gripe I had was that it's moving further and further away from a survival game but again that's still fine I keep saying I simply changed my expectations for the game I'm not gonna keep expecting the impossible I don't see why that's a problem your just making up imaginary things I'm upset about at this point.

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

but neither is a challenge to kill them few steps away of base and let them explode in a barrean area you can easy prepare with few shovel uses or by letting the plants burn in worlds that are ditched few hours later

the benefits of the fire explosion are bigger than the downside in survival worlds so i think that can be improved to be more challenging than helpful as they currently are

Knowing how to work around a trap doesn't make a trap less of a trap we know to lead them away but that in and of itself means it made us be cautious of them. Making them simply a damage check means we suddenly just fight them the same way we do everything else what's stopping you? That's a direct downgrade in the survival element the fact some people don't like the threat they pose is proof that it's effective in and of itself.

[Evelo]

I don't like skill trees (or in Klei's words Skillsets), but like... whatever? I just hope they change the insight acquisition and maybe add a way for skillsets to be removed on a per world bases (during world creation) or have it auto reset skillsets so you have to actually earn the skills instead of just unlock them once and have it forever.

I would rather focus entirely on updates that don't focus on characters. I was surprised when WW, Wolfgang, and Woodie got skillsets considering it just completely undermined Wilson's Refresh. I knew more skillsets were to come much to my dismay but again, whatever. I am getting older and with that I care less and less about things and focus more on what makes me happy.

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

I don't like skill trees (or in Klei's words Skillsets), but like... whatever? I just hope they change the insight acquisition and maybe add a way for skillsets to be removed on a per world bases (during world creation) or have it auto reset skillsets so you have to actually earn the skills instead of just unlock them once and have it forever.

I would rather focus entirely on updates that don't focus on characters. I was surprised when WW, Wolfgang, and Woodie got skillsets considering it just completely undermined Wilson's Refresh. I knew more skillsets were to come much to my dismay but again, whatever. I am getting older and with that I care less and less about things and focus more on what makes me happy.

I was surprised that the CC/FW unlock requirement carred between worlds. I think letting players keep the insight points, but have the affinity paths locked on a per-world basis makes the most sense to me.

[Swiyss]

20 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

I was surprised that the CC/FW unlock requirement carred between worlds. I think letting players keep the insight points, but have the affinity paths locked on a per-world basis makes the most sense to me.

It made the most sense to most people, but then the last perks weren't THAT accessible to some characters, but made others like woodie REALLY compensated by having it, so because of their inconsistency, they had to change the way the whole system worked instead of changing the perks instead, because they didn't have time. All of this would be fixed in a 6 month update instead of just 1 month, they're an Indie company, they're humans also. So they need to start respecting themselves and know that everything is not possible to obtain under certain clocks.