Walls - your opinion on how they can be changed ?

[Hungry French]

     Walls are a long-standing type of structures that Klei did not change in any way. Initially, they were created as a protection element and a decorative element, but now they are bad in both aspects.
   Without them, it is quite possible to survive and their use may be needed even against the leit game raids of the hounds. 
Ironically, the walls can be used as a defence, but due to the fact that the same hounds attack the walls when attacking. And through the walls you can beat dogs by 1 and arrange a mini dual. And with a sufficient level and strength of the walls, kill them
Grass walls and wooden ones don't even have a chance. Stone and tulecite have chances.

2 main problems of the walls : 
1.Low hp
2. Broken mechanics of repairing walls

Low hp - we all know that the walls are very frail and weak in terms of hp. And not even logical. After all, even the armor on the body has greater strength than the walls. Tulecite wall - maximum 800 hp. Tulecite armor of 1260-1800 strength (depending on DS or DST). Why is a 2 meter wall weaker than a thin armor on the body. The same is not logical about walls made of other materials.

Repair - Walls when installed have 50% of their maximum hp. Let's say a grass wall when installed has 50 hp. Why, in order to get 100 maximum hp, you need to fix it with 3 more walls... 50x4 = 200, not 100.  A strange limitation from Klei, which leads to the fact that it is more profitable to break walls with a hammer, and the mechanics of repair are dead. Or you spend 3 times more resources for the sake of a reinforced wall. Perhaps even a tulecite wall with such hp will not be able to cope with the raid of the hounds.  If you dig into the game Files, the walls according to the standard have a repair efficiency of 1 to 6 in the case of walls items. Why 1 to 6 ? Is this a way to get the player to farm more ? Or hold back the power of the walls ? And why haven 't the walls been changed yet ?

I personally imagine balancing walls not as a complete rework of their benefits and applications, but banal changes in the characteristics of walls :
1. Low hp.
I believe that the current hp of the walls should be increased by x2.5 -or x5 times. I did some tests and these multipliers make the walls strong enough that the player could overcome the hounds without traps and other help. Grass walls x2.5 are useful on the initial waves, but will lose out to later hounds waves. Wooden walls hold up well even against late game hounds. Stone walls and tulecite are the most durable and their repair with such cp will be much cheaper than grass and wooden walls.
P.S. finally WALLS will be stronger than armor. At least in terms of numbers

2.  Broken mechanics of repairing walls.
Fixing the walls 1/2 instead of 1/6 will make this very repair really useful. And it will remove a drop of meaningless grind from Don't Starve . In addition, their effectiveness for the battle with hounds waves will be even higher due to the reduced waste of resources and time.

 Although it is clear that not only numbers, but other existing tactics make the walls weak... But why can't the walls and tooth trap start working together? In part, the DST aggravated the increase in hp for many mobs, which made it easier for the hounds to fight off other mobs...
Or extremely erecting a bunnymans settlement near the base.
Or in both games, the settlement of pigs. But at least in winter and spring they almost never leave the house. + in the old version of DS, dogs could come earlier than pigs would be reborn.

And the fact that it is possible to kill dogs with melee weapons makes you think maybe melee weapons are too strong, and not long-range weapons are too weak. If you think so, if DS and need hp mobs as in DST, then not by increasing hp mobs, but by reducing all melee damage.  Then the interaction of mobs and the logic of their health will be preserved. In the case of spiders, it will be more profitable to trap them because of the increased severity of their killing. In addition, all tactics through darts, gunpowder, allied creatures will become more useful. Of course, if you reduce the damage of melee weapons, then you need to increase their endurance. Well, I digress from the topic...

What ideas do you have for changing the walls ? At least for DS or DST.

And Klei. Have you ever used walls to defend against creatures?)

[Cheggf]

10 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Low hp - we all know that the walls are very frail and weak in terms of hp. And not even logical. After all, even the armor on the body has greater strength than the walls. Tulecite wall - maximum 800 hp. Tulecite armor of 1260-1800 strength (depending on DS or DST). Why is a 2 meter wall weaker than a thin armor on the body. The same is not logical about walls made of other materials.

The thulecite suit is made of 36x more thulecite than a single piece of wall. The only illogical thing here is how you're able to so tightly pack all that thulecite, but magical "nightmare fuel" is a key component in its crafting.

10 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Walls are a long-standing type of structures that Klei did not change in any way. Initially, they were created as a protection element and a decorative element, but now they are bad in both aspects.

Why are they bad decor? I don't see an explanation in the post.

[Antynomity]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Why are they bad decor? I don't see an explanation in the post.

You see... They aren't, idk why that was even included in this post.

[Fufuji]

The walls are the only sturcture that can't protect players. They need to be at least 4* stronger to reach the point of "barely usable".

Edit: They are good for decoration purpose.

[Cheggf]

12 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

The walls are the only sturcture that can't protect players. They need to be at least 4* stronger to reach the point of "barely usable".

A wall needs to tank 160 attacks to be "barely usable"?

[Fufuji]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

A wall needs to tank 160 attacks to be "barely usable"?

An endgame wall needs

[Cheggf]

25 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

An endgame wall needs

If you're endgame wall health is even less important since it should be easy for you to line them with traps that autokill enemies before they deal significant damage to the walls.

[Baark0]

Don't think walls need changes. Giants should be able to easily destroy walls considering the size difference, and most other creatures are incapable of targeting walls. I will say though, it'd be nice if hounds (or other creatures) only attacked walls if there's something behind the wall that they want, and are unable of pathing around it to get to it. 

[GelatinousCube]

I just wish targeting walls for players attacks wasn't so painful.

Plus when you accidentally attack a wall in one of your farms/setups when trying to hit a werepig or gobbler or whatever if you have houndius nearby it/they attack the wall too until it's destroyed often prioritizing it over the mobs that may even be attacking you back. So painful and stupid.. the amount of times I've had to repair the walls on my werepig/meat farm is absolutely ridiculous...

How often do players actually need to attack walls at all?? They should have the lowest possible attack priority not the goddamn highest.. 

[Jakepeng99]

I hate it when pengulls and skiter squids come out of nowhere and destroy my walls, it is so annoying

1 hour ago, Baark0 said:

Don't think walls need changes. Giants should be able to easily destroy walls considering the size difference, and most other creatures are incapable of targeting walls. I will say though, it'd be nice if hounds (or other creatures) only attacked walls if there's something behind the wall that they want, and are unable of pathing around it to get to it. 

I agree, a skittersquid freed my catcoons from their cages for no reason, and now they are lose in the farm and killed the friendly fruitfly.

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

A wall needs to tank 160 attacks to be "barely usable"?

We need self repairing dreadstone walls. The level they chose to repair to is the one the player makes them. (E.g upgrading it with dreadstone to make it the tall version will make it repair to that varient)

[GreenBowers]

I dont think you should be able to auto target walls at all. They should remove that as a possibility because accidentally destroying these things is so annoying.

[Hungry French]

12 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Why are they bad decor? I don't see an explanation in the post.

The walls of levels 3 and 4 require too much resources. 2-3 times more expensive than the walls of level 0 - 2

7 hours ago, Cheggf said:

A wall needs to tank 160 attacks to be "barely usable"?

The efficiency of hp walls and wall repair should be either equal to or exceed the tooth trap. Tooth traps have 10 uses. And the walls after 1-2 raids of the hounds already require expensive repairs.
Pigs and bunnymen do not require repairs and are able to regenerate quickly. And it's all because of their easy relocation. It would be balanced if the houses of pigs and hares did not drop resources.

[Masked Koopa]

I think considering we have pillars (and pillar scaffolding) it is probably time normal walls get a buff. Its OK for them to not stop giants, because we can cage giants using dreadstone pillars without any real issues anyway, but needing pillars to cage stuff like spiders, hounds, beefalo, voltgoats, etc is just silly.

[Hungry French]

6 hours ago, Baark0 said:

Don't think walls need changes. Giants should be able to easily destroy walls considering the size difference, and most other creatures are incapable of targeting walls. I will say though, it'd be nice if hounds (or other creatures) only attacked walls if there's something behind the wall that they want, and are unable of pathing around it to get to it. 

It would be better if mobs that are not able to destroy walls would not react to things outside the walls. Or at least not stupidly banging their heads against the walls

[Well-met]

good ideas

and make all mobs attack them, and be better at it.

[Jakepeng99]

17 hours ago, Hungry French said:

     Walls are a long-standing type of structures that Klei did not change in any way. Initially, they were created as a protection element and a decorative element, but now they are bad in both aspects.
   Without them, it is quite possible to survive and their use may be needed even against the leit game raids of the hounds. 
Ironically, the walls can be used as a defence, but due to the fact that the same hounds attack the walls when attacking. And through the walls you can beat dogs by 1 and arrange a mini dual. And with a sufficient level and strength of the walls, kill them
Grass walls and wooden ones don't even have a chance. Stone and tulecite have chances.

2 main problems of the walls : 
1.Low hp
2. Broken mechanics of repairing walls

Low hp - we all know that the walls are very frail and weak in terms of hp. And not even logical. After all, even the armor on the body has greater strength than the walls. Tulecite wall - maximum 800 hp. Tulecite armor of 1260-1800 strength (depending on DS or DST). Why is a 2 meter wall weaker than a thin armor on the body. The same is not logical about walls made of other materials.

Repair - Walls when installed have 50% of their maximum hp. Let's say a grass wall when installed has 50 hp. Why, in order to get 100 maximum hp, you need to fix it with 3 more walls... 50x4 = 200, not 100.  A strange limitation from Klei, which leads to the fact that it is more profitable to break walls with a hammer, and the mechanics of repair are dead. Or you spend 3 times more resources for the sake of a reinforced wall. Perhaps even a tulecite wall with such hp will not be able to cope with the raid of the hounds.  If you dig into the game Files, the walls according to the standard have a repair efficiency of 1 to 6 in the case of walls items. Why 1 to 6 ? Is this a way to get the player to farm more ? Or hold back the power of the walls ? And why haven 't the walls been changed yet ?

I personally imagine balancing walls not as a complete rework of their benefits and applications, but banal changes in the characteristics of walls :
1. Low hp.
I believe that the current hp of the walls should be increased by x2.5 -or x5 times. I did some tests and these multipliers make the walls strong enough that the player could overcome the hounds without traps and other help. Grass walls x2.5 are useful on the initial waves, but will lose out to later hounds waves. Wooden walls hold up well even against late game hounds. Stone walls and tulecite are the most durable and their repair with such cp will be much cheaper than grass and wooden walls.
P.S. finally WALLS will be stronger than armor. At least in terms of numbers

2.  Broken mechanics of repairing walls.
Fixing the walls 1/2 instead of 1/6 will make this very repair really useful. And it will remove a drop of meaningless grind from Don't Starve . In addition, their effectiveness for the battle with hounds waves will be even higher due to the reduced waste of resources and time.

 Although it is clear that not only numbers, but other existing tactics make the walls weak... But why can't the walls and tooth trap start working together? In part, the DST aggravated the increase in hp for many mobs, which made it easier for the hounds to fight off other mobs...
Or extremely erecting a bunnymans settlement near the base.
Or in both games, the settlement of pigs. But at least in winter and spring they almost never leave the house. + in the old version of DS, dogs could come earlier than pigs would be reborn.

And the fact that it is possible to kill dogs with melee weapons makes you think maybe melee weapons are too strong, and not long-range weapons are too weak. If you think so, if DS and need hp mobs as in DST, then not by increasing hp mobs, but by reducing all melee damage.  Then the interaction of mobs and the logic of their health will be preserved. In the case of spiders, it will be more profitable to trap them because of the increased severity of their killing. In addition, all tactics through darts, gunpowder, allied creatures will become more useful. Of course, if you reduce the damage of melee weapons, then you need to increase their endurance. Well, I digress from the topic...

What ideas do you have for changing the walls ? At least for DS or DST.

And Klei. Have you ever used walls to defend against creatures?)

Was the koalaphant truni vest always meant to be a Summer item?

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, Hungry French said:

The walls of levels 3 and 4 require too much resources. 2-3 times more expensive than the walls of level 0 - 2

The efficiency of hp walls and wall repair should be either equal to or exceed the tooth trap. Tooth traps have 10 uses. And the walls after 1-2 raids of the hounds already require expensive repairs.
Pigs and bunnymen do not require repairs and are able to regenerate quickly. And it's all because of their easy relocation. It would be balanced if the houses of pigs and hares did not drop resources.

I don't think they need to be cheaper to repair/upgrade, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. They're a fine price for the decoration they currently are.

The changes that would definitely be good for them are not being targeted by F or mobs that just happen to be nearby with no incentive to go to the other side of the wall, like many people here have said.

[Hungry French]

On 03.09.2023 at 20:33, Jakepeng99 said:

Всегда ли жилетка koalaphant truni предназначалась для лета?

koalaphant truni is a spring item due to 20% water protection

On 03.09.2023 at 22:35, Cheggf said:

Я не думаю, что их нужно дешевле ремонтировать / модернизировать, но я бы не возражал против этого. Это хорошая цена за то оформление, которым они являются в настоящее время.

Изменения, которые определенно пошли бы им на пользу, не являются мишенью для мобов, которые просто оказались поблизости без стимула перейти по другую сторону стены, как говорили многие присутствующие.

If they cannot be adequately repaired, then there is no point in repairing them.

[Cassielu]

I'll never be satisfied until it works better than wayfinding and pillar.

On 9/3/2023 at 8:13 AM, Cheggf said:

Why are they bad decor? I don't see an explanation in the post.

They will attacked by all kinds of things from all kinds of places, you need a lot of energy to maintain them, as a decor is seriously unqualified.

[BezKa]

It's not the health or the repairing. It's the path finding of the mobs.

Most mobs will walk around walls, which means they don't exactly protect you. You can direct a houndwave to a specific spot by closing yourself in a box, and killing them by the entrance, with a spear or with traps. You can get this result with fences and walls alike, but hounds will also get distracted by them, which can help you in a tough spot if they hold long enough for you to get rid of the other enemies.

This is a perfectly fine, but most players want/need something completely different- a barrier, that will stop a mob from reaching a place. But if that mob can aggro on walls, then they're useless. When we want to contain a hostile creature, it will break free, and not do what it's supposed to do in the meantime (varg farms), and it's simply not realistic to come back everyday to fix your wall. More health will just make every day into every other day.

Walls are used by players to do various jobs, mostly keeping peaceful mobs, or decoration. If we wanted walls that fulfill the specific need players have of containing something aggressive, we need a wall that can't be aggroed- and statues currently play that role. It's a whole other story of whether developers want something like that to be in the game.

[Jandri]

The enemies should try to go around a wall before attacking it, but they should always attack it if they can instead of trying to run through it. They should also attack statues etc.