DST and Returning to its Roots

[Nnumber3]

3 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

So I have some people saying that bundling wraps help players that aren't as good at the game, and I have other people saying that bundling wraps are balanced because only good players are able to unlock them. Do you not see the contradiction here?

 

Bee queen crown is great, what you on about? Still a better way to manage sanity around bosses with insanity auras than the void cowl, since void cowl doesn't compensate for sanity drain from dusk/night/darksword, etc.

 

Well... so is Dragonfly, and, duping aside, I'd take jellybeans, bee queen hats, and honeycombs over dragon scales and a bunch of random gems any day.

 

Are you just playing devil's advocate, or do you actually legitimately have fun with bundle wraps the way you might with a shadow scythe?

Am I the same person as the person who said those 2 different takes? no? then how I'm I contradicting myself?

Bee qween crown sucks as deconstructing it gives 244 healing while the crown is good in 1 fight (fuelweaver) and is beat by sanity food, cactus, jelly salad, etc. and tam is good for passive sanity.

Dragonfly is different as she is much fairer, being able to dodge by experimenting with the amount of hits you can do, which is 5 1/2 to 6. The wall takes at MOST 40 rocks, and the desert is littered with rocks to mine. while bee queen needs you to hammer a bunch of bunnyhomes, much more time consuming. Also what makes more sense for a newer player, dying to DF Larve, think and make a wall to block it, or destroying tons of bunny home underground to kill BQ. Her drops are amazing as she gives gems, which is good for ruins, and general gem supply for normal magic crafts (more ice staffs for crab king, bat bats for wormwood, etc) without really good luck with graves. the furnace is AMAZING in winter. Scale mail is more situational and not that good. scaled flooring is scaled flooring.

if you want to use b crowns, you only really need 1 for the FW fight, and that's it.

How am I playing devils advocate? I said I was not comparing them to bundles! you quoted it! in what way did I sat bundles more fun the scythe, scythe is cool and satisfying and it talks like lucy so cool in my books.

 

[goatt]

13 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

to resolve the core issue, which is that hoarding is too easy

This problem doesn’t exist.

Without bundling wraps, hoarding food is already extremely easy. We have berry bushes for easy food. You can plant 100 of them. Then you have fishing tin of you need to hoard meats. You can also hoard morsels by creating mole worms. Sanity farm from banana bushes. And then bee boxes, tons of food. All of those are food boarding method without bundling wrap.

 

What bundling wrap enables is not food hoarding, but QoL (food) storage method.

 

Bundling wrap is not the problem of food system overhaul, I think.

 

(plus, bundling wrap storage system never works in public servers with internet strangers) 

Oh, forgot to mention, we can already hoard ices.

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

This problem doesn’t exist.

Without bundling wraps, hoarding food is already extremely easy. We have berry bushes for easy food. You can plant 100 of them. Then you have fishing tin of you need to hoard meats. You can also hoard morsels by creating mole worms. Sanity farm from banana bushes. And then bee boxes, tons of food. All of those are food boarding method without bundling wrap.

Ah right, berry bushes, nature’s bundling wrap. Practically the same thing, except that bushes can be looted by mobs, destroyed by giants, don’t grow during winter, wither during summer, need fertilization, and occupy more physical space the more you want to accumulate. Not to mention brightshades now.

If you have 10 bushes, you potentially have 10 berries. If you have a bundle wrap, you can now realize up to 160 berries on top of another potential 10 berries. The difference is in the investment, you see. You still have to do the work, and what’s potentially yours can still be taken from you. A stack of dragonfruit isn’t the same as a stack of dragonfruit seeds, right? Likewise, eggs and meat in a salt box isn’t the same as a bundle wrap of bacon n’ eggs in your backpack.

Welcome to my TED talk, titled, “A berry in the hand is worth two in the bush.” or “Food does not grow on trees.”

I never said that food should be hard to get, to be clear. Just that it’s something that should require some degree of maintenance. A new player might move a few bushes next to a few rabbit holes and say they’re set for life, but every potential food source is still an investment, and if it’s not physical, like poop or grass, it‘s abstract, like time, effort, seasonal risks, etc. I don’t even need to spend time on berries or ice at all, because I can just hoard the food that comes to me passively just by existing, like hound/worm meat, boss meat, frog legs, etc.

 

1 hour ago, goatt said:

Bundling wrap is not the problem of food system overhaul, I think.

Maybe, maybe not, but I still attest it’s an irreconcilable part of the problem.

[cropo]

Without bundling wraps, preparing for boss fights would be an absolute nightmare. I know cool-guy-mccool can kill bee queen on day one but Bee Queen is a pretty far out boss that you're going to be tackling ideally once you've already experienced the first troubles of the game. At that point the game kind of evolves past trivial survival, which you are already good enough to deal with, and more on preparing for bigger encounters.

 

I don't really see the removal of bundling wrap making survival a more engaging experience, just makes the end-game more of a tedious grind and would invalidate certain food and healing options on bosses. 

[cybers2001]

7 minutes ago, cropo said:

Without bundling wraps, preparing for boss fights would be an absolute nightmare.

Would it, though? Do any bosses require more than a couple health or sanity foods, or are you counting Warly dishes as essential for boss fights?

7 minutes ago, cropo said:

I don't really see the removal of bundling wrap making survival a more engaging experience, just makes the end-game more of a tedious grind and would invalidate certain food and healing options on bosses. 

Ok but where in my original post did I say remove bundle wraps? Hell, I even suggested a shiny new item that could even help you stash all the volt-goat jelly you can eat.

[Captain_Rage]

Salt Crystals are easy to amass once you have Docks set up and they can keep a stack raw food fresh forever and ever (and ever and ever). Not related to the Bundling Wrap, whose current implementation I consider fine, but still. xd

[cropo]

41 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Ok but where in my original post did I say remove bundle wraps?

One can infer from your OP that a majority of your motivation comes from the unfairness of the Bundling Wraps signature and most meaningful mechanic: Stopping spoilage. While you aren't immediately calling for it's removal entirely, the feeling is there and that's what I wanted to address more than your other points.

 

43 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Would it, though?

Yes. Sometimes I stockpile dragonpies and hold them in a chest for a long time before their actual ''use'' on a boss that I fight later. Without that, I would have to freshly plant and farm a bunch of them and make them later. 

 

I would also likely have to make return trips to Fuelweavers boss room to bring some weather pains, go back to base to get the rest of my kit, and come back. Would definitely add a lot of tedium to prep-time for bigger bosses.

 

I like the idea of a stationary freezer structure though, would be useful for putting in the various seed variants so I can have them on hand to plant whenever the need arises.

[SuperDonuts]

14 hours ago, Nnumber3 said:

as dst is known for its realism 

I was answering to a comment saying wax paper is used against spoilage IRL. Please agree if dst shall be realistic or not.

[Copyafriend]

What a terrible thread.

@cybers2001

if you’re arguing with more than 2 people simultaneously, just drop it, its clear no one agrees with you, you’re just arguing to argue at this point.

[BezKa]

5 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

What a terrible thread.

@cybers2001

if you’re arguing with more than 2 people simultaneously, just drop it, its clear no one agrees with you, you’re just arguing to argue at this point.

That's not how arguing works. Just because more than 2 people disagree with you doesn't mean you're wrong.

No point shutting down discussion if people have so much to say on the topic.

As for whether I think bundle wrap is OP or the problem of DST, not really since I only use it in niche situations and don't really rush getting it in new worlds. But I can see how people being overly dependent on it might be bad for the game.

[cybers2001]

3 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

What a terrible thread.

@cybers2001

if you’re arguing with more than 2 people simultaneously, just drop it, its clear no one agrees with you, you’re just arguing to argue at this point.

So far I’d say this is the most toxic comment in this thread. Impressive!

Really, though, I’ve actually had a lot of support from people who realize this isn’t just a bundle-wrap rage thread, but I did come here fully aware that people like you would only read the 20% of the post you disagree with most, so don’t worry, you met my expectations.

[goatt]

10 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

except that bushes can be looted by mobs, destroyed by giants, don’t grow during winter, wither during summer, need fertilization, and occupy more physical space the more you want to accumulate.

That’s why, I said, it’s a QoL for (food) storage, instead of enabling food hoarding.

Wrap wasn’t the starting point of food hoarding. It was the starting point of quality food storage.

All the downside you mention about berry bushes can be easily avoided if you are a seasoned player. And bundling wrap can also be easily looted or destroyed (burnt). Heck, it’s easier for strangers to open wrap because they don’t know what’s inside, which will never happen to berry bushes.

The hoard concept is clear before bundling wrap. I don’t understand why you have to intentionally label massive scale of berry bushes as “not food hoarding”. We even had food hoarding with the old farms which were removed from the game. And we still have farm crop hoarding now. I think it’s very straight forward to understand.

[Yuuko]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:03 AM, cybers2001 said:

1 Though the choice of the name itself, "Don't Starve," wasn't arbitrary: beta testers of early versions of the game did often die of hunger.

2 It's not at all uncommon for players to amass ingredients in bundling wraps, then batch cook stacks of food, just to throw it into another bundling wrap.

3 Also, if you think power creep is a problem, and you hate how Warly is a hot-swap character, well, you can thank bundling wraps for that. Imagine how less abusable spicy volt-goat chaude-froid would be if it only kept for 15 days in an ice box.

4 I do think long-term it would be healthier to permit some degree of spoilage in bundling wraps

5 Anyway, at this point you're probably wondering if this post is really about returning to Don't Starve's roots, and not just a means to shill a single idea, and, well, I can't really argue with that

1 - x to doubt.  As a new player in DS the #1 killers were getting caught at night without a light source or dying to petty fights.  Very few times have I ever seen a player actually starve out.  Food is just too abundant.  Do you have evidence that starvation was ever a significant cause of death post-release?

2 - Is it "not at all uncommon" ?  What percentage of the player base do you think bundle wraps stacks of ingredients?  What I've generally found is that doing this is a bit of an exercise in futility b/c all of the ingredients are pretty readily available, and its a lot of overhead to amass the was papers and ropes to wrap things up.

3 - Again, how many people do you think are actually going so far as to swap to Warly for Chaud Froid and swapping back, and more importantly - how many people do you think are doing this before clearing everything in the game?  I mean, if you're already cleared everything in the game I think the win-more mechanic of Chaud Froid is more than acceptable. 

4 - Absolutely not.  The contents of the wrap are hidden.  If they spoiled at any rate inside they would become worthless.  DST has enough worthless items, no reason to make more.

5 - DST is a different game from Don't Starve.  DS was largely a game about killing players, with bosses for every season happily spawning in your home, and more severe hazards.  DST is a more sandbox co-op multiplayer fun bus with raid bosses and other optional challenges.  The base DST game is still a big uphill climb for new players, especially if they're doing it rough without any outside help, but once you get going its more about picking your own challenges and pushing how far you can go.  The game has no reason to return to air-dropping bosses into your base just to fk with you.

On 8/15/2023 at 11:16 AM, MostMerryTomcat said:

 

Also, from DST's bulk player-base, what percentage do you believe will actually end up acquiring, using "and abusing" Bundle Wraps? Accent on acquiring.

Accent on abusing too.  I think it is an extremely small percentage of the playerbase that has chests full of bundle wraps full of a single ingredient.  I don't think very many people (as a percentage of the playerbase) are swapping to Warly and filling a chest full of wraps full of stacks of Volt Goat Chaud-Froid.

I usually tackle bee queen in first autumn or winter.  I typically use them to pack stuff for Pearl quests and AFW so I can have things sorted  and compressed before I disembark for these longer treks.  Often I put a stack of meat or something in a wrap so when I come back to a base, if I need food I can open the wrap for some BUT these usually stay wrapped year after year b/c some other food source is generally available.

[cybers2001]

3 hours ago, goatt said:

That’s why, I said, it’s a QoL for (food) storage, instead of enabling food hoarding.

Wrap wasn’t the starting point of food hoarding. It was the starting point of quality food storage.

All the downside you mention about berry bushes can be easily avoided if you are a seasoned player. And bundling wrap can also be easily looted or destroyed (burnt). Heck, it’s easier for strangers to open wrap because they don’t know what’s inside, which will never happen to berry bushes.

The hoard concept is clear before bundling wrap. I don’t understand why you have to intentionally label massive scale of berry bushes as “not food hoarding”. We even had food hoarding with the old farms which were removed from the game. And we still have farm crop hoarding now. I think it’s very straight forward to understand.

You're getting hung up on the wrong detail. Farms provide ease of food-related game loops, but the loops still exist. Having a bunch of bushes at your base is nowhere near the level of bundling wrap. You can have 50 berry bushes at your base and still starve if you're in the ruins or on a boat in the ocean. Meanwhile, at the cost of a single inventory slot, I have 100% fresh stacks of cooked food at my disposal no matter where I am. I think it's very straight forward to understand.

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Words

Most of these are things I've either already addressed, or are questions that can't be directly answered without more data. Regardless, I still think it's wrong to shut down a balance discussion on the mere premise that something is unobtainable to casual players, as if a game should only be balanced around casual players.

Oh, one other thing I keep forgetting to mention. Why should bundle wrap be so strongly gated, anyway? In my original post, I rationalized bundle wrap as a tool that makes logical sense in a multiplayer environment, to preserve food while you're away from the server, but if it's true that so few players have access to bundle wrap, then doesn't it fail in this purpose? The pub servers, where people are new and uncoordinated, can't even use the item that makes the most sense for them to have?

[Copyafriend]

6 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

So far I’d say this is the most toxic comment in this thread. Impressive!

Really, though, I’ve actually had a lot of support from people who realize this isn’t just a bundle-wrap rage thread, but I did come here fully aware that people like you would only read the 20% of the post you disagree with most, so don’t worry, you met my expectations.

I’ll rephrase, because i worded it badly.

if the entire thread is primarily made up of people disagreeing with you and you responding to them disagreeing with you, there isn’t much of a reason to continue the discussion.

i wasn’t saying you were wrong for disagreeing, nor that you were raging mindlessly, but you are half of the replies on your own, and at a certain point you should really step back and say go “I’m probably not convincing anyone, and this is a huge time sink”

simultaneously, live your life, pop off and slay queen.

i wasn’t trying to be toxic, more observing that the thread looked pretty pointless as a mostly outside observer.

but it was a pretty toxic moment of mine, so i’m sorry for that

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

words

Hey, it's cool. I'm not really bothered. I do enjoy debating about subjects I'm passionate about, like this game. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. It seems every thread here either just fizzles out quickly, or persists from knee-jerk raging. What even is there on these forums besides dead-end threads and people hating on controversial ideas?

I do kinda wish more people would try to be constructive, at least.

[Mike23Ua]

The title of this thread is incredibly misleading to be honest, for DST to truly go back to its roots… bundling wraps don’t have anything at all to do with that.

Why? because DSTs “Roots” is DS, and in DS you obtained the bundling wrap recipe super early into the game from just destroying random Bee Hives.

However it has never been food or how well you can preserve said food that has been the challenging aspects of DS.

It’s when all those Meters you need to maintain start getting into bad shape, and several worldly problems start piling up on each other at the same time… that’s when Chaos ensues.

Such as for example- Fighting Deerclops in Winter, but your Campfire is dying, and being close to Deerclops has caused your sanity to drain enough Nightmare Creatures are Spawning, there’s a Nearby MacTusk camp that if you get too close to your going to get Sniper Shot, and to top all that off a hound Wave is inbound.

You can’t get away from all this chaos long enough to refuel the dying campfire, and you can’t stand still long enough to eat or heal. That is Dont Starve at its very core..

However You are right that DST strays from its Roots (which is DS & it’s DLCs) but what your specifically claiming those roots to be in this thread, have never existed.

Instead- some of the things that DS does, that are completely Absent from DST are dangerous and elaborate level design so that you the player are forced to go through a hostile location to reach the other side and possibly valuable or rare resources, Having a Rogue-Lite Episodic Campaign, More RNG in Mob Encounters (Snakes/Scorpions/Spiders/Beatles) inside Trees, Vine Bushes, Tall Grass, Loot Vases, Stones you can flip over, etc..) More extreme Character Downsides

Those would be the “Roots” we should be discussing, not a thread that should’ve been titled “Bundle Wraps Op Y/N?”

I deeply DEEPLY Miss that Classic DS feel.. of exploration & discovery and I wish Klei would incorporate more of that into DST, with significantly less focus on Raid Bosses.

[cybers2001]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The title of this thread is incredibly misleading to be honest, for DST to truly go back to its roots… bundling wraps don’t have anything at all to do with that.

Why? because DSTs “Roots” is DS, and in DS you obtained the bundling wrap recipe super early into the game from just destroying random Bee Hives.

However it has never been food or how well you can preserve said food that has been the challenging aspects of DS.

I do agree with that, I even called out to that in my original post. My main goal was to talk about overhauling the food system, and I felt bundle wraps were the thorn in the side of that progress. Though I'd be fine dropping that subject altogether if it at least allowed the thread to get back on track with my aforementioned goal.

So how about that time-freezing box, eh? eh? (I really just want a nice ice box specialized for cooked foods pls Klei).

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It’s when all those Meters you need to maintain start getting into bad shape, and several worldly problems start piling up on each other at the same time… that’s when Chaos ensues.

There's a lot of "chaos ensues" moments in DS and DST, but you could still say that both typically come about (especially for newer players) from hunger. Hunger is what forces you to venture from the safety of your base, and also one of the reasons why Winter is so harsh for players who aren't prepared for it.

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Most of these are things I've either already addressed, or are questions that can't be directly answered without more data.

Regardless, I still think it's wrong to shut down a balance discussion on the mere premise that something is unobtainable to casual players, as if a game should only be balanced around casual players.

Perhaps you think you've addressed them, but I read the whole thread and remain unconvinced.  Bundle wrap is not essential to the game, but it is also not warping the game.  If it didn't exist there would be no great need for it to exist, but at the same time the bundle wrap meta you are intent on describing...

On 8/15/2023 at 10:03 AM, cybers2001 said:

Over many iterations, food just became more and more trivial... I would probably trace it back to one pivotal moment: The introduction of bundling wraps.

I like to think of bundling wraps as the item nobody asked for, but can not live without.

Regardless of its intent, though, bunding wraps are highly abusable. It's not at all uncommon for players to amass ingredients in bundling wraps, then batch cook stacks of food, just to throw it into another bundling wrap.

hate how Warly is a hot-swap character, well, you can thank bundling wraps for that.

... simply does not exist.  Sometimes certain things in DST capture the minds of some set of conspicuous players, whether it is "ice is the best filler" and "meatballs op other crock pot dishes irelevant" perhaps "backpacks OP add slots to armor" and who could forget "football helmet op pls nerf" and of course the newly trending (no, you're not the first to bring these up...) "bundlewraps broke the game OMWGSLKJF"

So lets try something different.  I'll, give you NO argument, just an assignement.  You said

On 8/15/2023 at 10:03 AM, cybers2001 said:

I hate using bundling wraps. It's just so tedious...

so... stop using them.

I've stopped using lanterns, backpacks, football helmets, hambats, and some other things lately.  Partly because certain aspects of them became tedious, or bland because I had used them so much, and partly because I found some other options that people alleged in certain threads were "unusable b/c xyz items exists."  I don't abstain from these items entirely but I freely put them aside when they aren't actually useful which, as it turns out, is the vast majority of my game time.

Lanterns => annoying b/c refilling in the caves is a whole trip.  I'd fill up a chest of these so I could easily see their usage levels and rotate them out, refilling when they were low but...  it was a whole trip to get bulbs.  It was also a bit annoying that I could only really travel for a few days during winter b/c they would only last 2-3 nights and have no way to provide warmth.  I put these aside in favor of magi and starcaller.  I still make one when I get an alchemy engine going but rarely even use half of it b/c night vision goggles are vastly superior for caves.

Backpacks => Along with swapping out to the magi I've dropped backpacks.  I typically use one early to get in and out of the ruins, but once I get back to the surface I basically stop using a back pack all together...  I don't even use krampus sack.  I imagine if I was mega basing and doing something like collecting 20 stacks of stone or something or clearing the whole ruins completely in 1 go I'd find these useful, but for running around well...  it just isn't actually needed.  I think many people are attached to these, but are just pack rats who don't know how to put things down that they aren't actually using.

I could go on for other items but hopefully you get the gist.  If you don't like bundle wraps then YOU give them up.  You don't need them removed from the game to remove them from *your* game.  I typically use the 4 wax papers from klaus to wrap things for pearls island and afw mostly to keep things oraganized and expand my backpack-less inventory for those trips that require a bit more load, and definitely wrapping up moon storm event stuff is very useful but beyond that...  I don't think they're nearly as useful as people think.  As others have said, if you're able to fill 1 bundle wrap with literal stacks of potatoes, odds are you could just farm as needed and continually have a stack of fresh potatoes in your inventory at all times anyway.  The bundle wrap just supports the feast / famine play style where you dive into a task hard so you can avoid it after...  but this is a non-essential, optional play pattern.  Far from required, or even helpful as you attest - managing bundle wraps is a whole other layer of overhead to deal with...

On 8/15/2023 at 10:03 AM, cybers2001 said:

If I want a single item from a wrap, I have to:

1. Clear inventory space
2. Unwrap the bundle
3. Pick everything up off the floor
4. Pull from the stack I want
5. Craft a rope
6. Craft a new bundle wrap
7. Activate the bundle wrap
8. Move the stacks back to the wrap

So just stop.  You don't need to petition the forumites or impress Klei, just stop using it.  Let the others continue wasting their time filling chests with wraps, with stacks ammasing so much stuff that they will literally never consume... while you spend your time playing the parts of the game that you do enjoy.

[cybers2001]

14 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

so... stop using them.

Sweet, sounds good! So, would you like to talk about my ideas for the game?

[Yuuko]

2 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Sweet, sounds good! So, would you like to talk about my ideas for the game?

Sure, make a post about something worth discussing and I'll be there.

[cybers2001]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Sure, make a post about something worth discussing and I'll be there.

So you can not read it and blind-rage again? Maybe.....

[Yuuko]

10 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

So you can not read it and blind-rage again? Maybe.....

Can you make a post that says what you want to say pls?

b/c I've responded to the entirety of your first post that mattered - the claim that bundle wraps defy the origins of DS, that that they have taken over the meta, that we cannot play without them, and even that they are tedious to use.

If that was not your intent, then put aside your click bate BS antics and make a legit post just saying what you actually want to say.  You want to suggest a new craftable structure?  Make a post about that.  Play stupid games, get stupid answers, and waste a whole 3 page thread going back and forth about things you claim you didn't say, or don't care about.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

I do agree with that, I even called out to that in my original post. My main goal was to talk about overhauling the food system, and I felt bundle wraps were the thorn in the side of that progress. Though I'd be fine dropping that subject altogether if it at least allowed the thread to get back on track with my aforementioned goal.

So how about that time-freezing box, eh? eh? (I really just want a nice ice box specialized for cooked foods pls Klei).

There's a lot of "chaos ensues" moments in DS and DST, but you could still say that both typically come about (especially for newer players) from hunger. Hunger is what forces you to venture from the safety of your base, and also one of the reasons why Winter is so harsh for players who aren't prepared for it.

Food has never, ever been a problem except for maybe in Shipwrecked (Maybe?) OR when your down in Caves in those long, empty bare of any life or anything interesting stretches of pathways.. but outside of that even for a complete noob, it’s not hard to survive on just picking up carrots or berries.

I lived off COOKED Seeds & Butterfly Wings once.. so as long as there are butterflies that can spawn from flowers food, (and health) will never ever be a problem unless your Wormwood, but he does things a different way.

That said, Bundling Wraps DO Make the game easier, not just in preserving food.. but also in that OTHER hardly talked about Area that they can do-

And that’s putting things that Aren’t Food inside of Them. Such as Armor & Weapons & Healing Items if needed.

Of course the game will be easy when you can carry 16 Darkswords in 4 Inventory Slots.

If there was ever to be a Nerf to Bundling wraps I’d want them to Only be able to store foods. But you’d cause a forum flame war suggesting such a huge change like that.. >.> 

[cybers2001]

36 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

If there was ever to be a Nerf to Bundling wraps I’d want them to Only be able to store foods. But you’d cause a forum flame war suggesting such a huge change like that.. >.> 

Heh, yeah, the nerds got rustled looks like. Funny that even when I said not to outright nerf bundle wraps I still get attacked.