DST and Returning to its Roots

[abrocator]

1 minute ago, cybers2001 said:

A sensible person would figure it’s just a misstyping of “Bit.” Something something Occam’s razor. But sure, invalidate the whole thing instead.

I'm sorry. I guess I was being literal.

Not like there was anything to reply to since you just complained about my tone.

[_zwb]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

what does that really say about the rest of the game?

Food source issue just shows how easy it is to survive in an "uncompromising survival game" after you learned to do so once, it's not skill wise difficult, it's just knowledge check.

[cybers2001]

Okay but like, does anyone actually dislike my suggestion, or is it just being immediately written off as a hate thread?

[lenship2]

6 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Okay but like, does anyone actually dislike my suggestion, or is it just being immediately written off as a hate thread?

i just think its unnecessary with the how good the ice/salt boxes are

itd be really helpful for the wagstaff quests though so its not bad

[Ridley]

4 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Okay but like, does anyone actually dislike my suggestion, or is it just being immediately written off as a hate thread?

I think you brought up an interesting topic, but I disagree that spoilage should be added to bundling wraps. I don't think you wrote anything resembling a hate thread.

[abrocator]

9 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Okay but like, does anyone actually dislike my suggestion,

Yes. One example.

[_zwb]

20 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Okay but like, does anyone actually dislike my suggestion, or is it just being immediately written off as a hate thread?

I dislike the idea of nerfing bundle wraps. You seem to forget that it is locked behind Bee Queen, by the time you've killed her starvation is definitely not a threat/challenge at all, food spoilage doesn't really effect your survival, I don't see the issue with providing a way to counter it for experienced players, plus you've mentioned that it's rather annoying to make room first then unbundle stuff, it has its limitations and downsides too, not op in my opinion.

As for Warly, it's not bundles' issue, it's his. His downside is just too annoying to deal with and his upsides takes forever to actually be activated. Even if bundles were removed people would just swap to him few days before fight and swap back, purple gems and moon rocks cost barely anything anyways.

[GenomeSquirrel]

7 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Okay but like, does anyone actually dislike my suggestion, or is it just being immediately written off as a hate thread?

I written it off more as a silly thread than a hate thread, I don't believe you are sincere when you state "Now, don't get me wrong. As much as I don't like it, completely removing bundling wraps would totally devastate my long-running world. It's become an essential part of the game, and I'm okay with that." and there's fundamental issues such as if you can fill a bundle once, isn't that already a sign that resources are too abundant for rotting to matter, what is stopping you from repeated harvests.

[cybers2001]

1 minute ago, _zwb said:

I dislike the idea of nerfing bundle wraps. You seem to forget that it is locked behind Bee Queen, by the time you've killed her starvation is definitely not an issue at all, food spoilage doesn't really effect your survival, I don't see the issue with providing a way to counter it for experienced players, plus you've mentioned that it's rather annoying to make room first then unbundle stuff, it has its limitations and downsides too, not op in my opinion.

People always bring up the balancing of an item around an always-accessible raid boss in these conversations, which is odd to me. I can solo Bee Queen in the first 15 days of a new world, and I'm hardly a speed-runner. Add to that the fact that power creep always moves upward, and eventually she won't seem so great of a gate anymore. Unlike CC and FW, Bee Queen has no build up whatsoever. There's nothing about defeating Bee Queen that says, "yep, you've mastered every facet of this game."

1 minute ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

I written it off more as a silly thread than a hate thread, I don't believe you are sincere when you state "Now, don't get me wrong. As much as I don't like it, completely removing bundling wraps would totally devastate my long-running world. It's become an essential part of the game, and I'm okay with that." and there's fundamental issues such as if you can fill a bundle once, isn't that already a sign that resources are too abundant for rotting to matter, what is stopping you from repeated harvests.

Are you asking why make players perform repeated game loops in a game built around repeated game loops? I've already demonstrated that I can harvest grass. Why should I keep having to harvest grass?

[GenomeSquirrel]

10 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Are you asking why make players perform repeated game loops in a game built around repeated game loops? I've already demonstrated that I can harvest grass. Why should I keep having to harvest grass?

reread what I said in the context of food, and explain how you are able to fill a bundle, but would somehow starve without the bundle itself existing.

if you are not starving, then what devastation would happen to your world

[lakhnish]

Back in my day, the original bundling wrap was never harvesting your food from the crockpot cause if you never picked it, it never spoiled.

[SuperDonuts]

Bundling wrap stopping spoilage only looks like a convenient bug that developers do not want to fix. 
 

I would totally agree to fix it, and in same time I wish Warly could get an item to slow the spoilage better than his chef pouch.

[_zwb]

18 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

People always bring up the balancing of an item around an always-accessible raid boss in these conversations, which is odd to me.

Maybe, just maybe, because it is the only way you can unlock the bundling wrap blueprint?

18 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Bee Queen can be done early

If being able to unlock a powerful item locked behind a difficult boss early on is a sign that this item should be nerfed, then we should also nerf all the ruins items and Ancient Guardian drops, which are arguably overpowered but also highly accessible. "How dare the players rush the raid boss early on just because they're skilled? Absolutely not tolerated."

No, being able to unlock bundles early on is just a proof of your skill, I can't imagine you would ever struggle with food problems at all if you can kill bq first autumn.

2 minutes ago, SuperDonuts said:

Bundling wrap stopping spoilage only looks like a convenient bug that developers do not want to fix. 

It's really easy code wise to implement a portable container with 4 slots, just create a backpack and allow it to be put in containers, and there you go, a bundle with food spoilage. It's not a convenient bug, if they want spoilage in bundles they can do that.

[cybers2001]

9 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Maybe, just maybe, because it is the only way you can unlock the bundling wrap blueprint?

If being able to unlock a powerful item locked behind a difficult boss early on is a sign that this item should be nerfed, then we should also nerf all the ruins items and Ancient Guardian drops, which are arguably overpowered but also highly accessible. "How dare the players rush the raid boss early on just because they're skilled? Absolutely not tolerated."

No, being able to unlock bundles early on is just a proof of your skill, I can't imagine you would ever struggle with food problems at all if you can kill bq first autumn.

I kinda feel like you miss my point entirely. I don't think anything that is op should be written off based on the boss it's locked behind. The game doesn't end when the bosses are killed. In fact I've killed all the bosses in my world about... 7000 days ago. I still care about balance. If any bosses should be regarded as true "this is where the game ends" bosses, it would be CC and FW, but that's because those take much more than a season to prepare for, and represent a true balance of game-knowledge to reach. But I still don't want any single boss to turn me into a god just because I beat them one time. If end-game content removes all the early-game loops, then you're removing a part of the game that is, well, the game itself.

[abrocator]

22 minutes ago, SuperDonuts said:

Bundling wrap stopping spoilage only looks like a convenient bug that developers do not want to fix. 

Wax paper is used for storing food “in real life” (term of art). Why on earth would it be a bug?

[Nnumber3]

4 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

I kinda feel like you miss my point entirely. I don't think anything that is op should be written off based on the boss it's locked behind. The game doesn't end when the bosses are killed. In fact I've killed all the bosses in my world about... 7000 days ago. I still care about balance. If any bosses should be regarded as true "this is where the game ends" bosses, it would be CC and FW, but that's because those take much more than a season to prepare for, and represent a true balance of game-knowledge to reach. But I still don't want any single boss to turn me into a god just because I beat them one time. If end-game content removes all the early-game loops, then you're removing a part of the game that is, well, the game itself.

but... that's how progression works? do difficult thing and get rewarded? The game does not "end" after the bosses are dead, it ends when you die the world gets deleted. bee qween is a VERY difficult boss when you don't have like 3+ people or playing wendy. your just good at the game. If your so skilled that you can kill be qween so fast, then food won't be a problem in the first place. I don't see CC and FW as a true balance of game knowledge, as they are summoned in such a way that 99.9% amount of people won't figure them out all BY THEM SELF. no wiki, or outside sources like friends. Bundle wraps don't set your hunger meter to full infinitely, you still need to GET the food, and sources like honey and jerky have very long spoilage time, bundles not needed for things like that, or you know, not use it, 

iceboxs and salt boxes exist

thats how endgame works? its your reward, like toadstools mush lamps, plus CC shards equal infinite light. like you don't pick each grass like in the beginning, you use the shadow Sythe thing, bosses should have meaningful rewards because if they didn't why fight them?

[_zwb]

26 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

then you're removing a part of the game that is, well, the game itself.

And a very boring part of the game. Imagine doing all the harvest grass& twigs, gathering food, chopping trees manually every so often, even in the late game, that's boring and repetitive. If I'm just surviving for the sake of surviving in this game, having only game play loop that makes me survive and do chores, then why should I play this game, when I can do the same and more irl?

The thing is, you can never keep the game challenging you with survival problems, you would eventually concour all of your issues and live forever. In this case food spoilage only makes you cook evey so often, once you've set up your bunnymen/spider farm, stone fruits/banana/kelps, they're permanent, the only thing this gameplay loop of gathering food can achieve is boredom, having it removed can give you more time on more creative stuff like building something beautiful, or collect items or just do anything that's not chores.

My point is, the survival aspect of the game will get stale and boring later on, having some of it removed would allow you to spend more time on sandboxy stuff and less time on chores. That's exactly what the bundling wrap does, it removes the hassle of cooking every so often, giving me more time going outside my base and do stuff

[cybers2001]

14 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

but... that's how progression works? do difficult thing and get rewarded? The game does not "end" after the bosses are dead, it ends when you die the world gets deleted. bee qween is a VERY difficult boss when you don't have like 3+ people or playing wendy. your just good at the game. If your so skilled that you can kill be qween so fast, then food won't be a problem in the first place. I don't see CC and FW as a true balance of game knowledge, as they are summoned in such a way that 99.9% amount of people won't figure them out all BY THEM SELF. no wiki, or outside sources like friends. Bundle wraps don't set your hunger meter to full infinitely, you still need to GET the food, and sources like honey and jerky have very long spoilage time, bundles not needed for things like that, or you know, not use it, 

Fun fact. Bundling wrap didn't used to be a blueprint drop from Bee Queen. But hey, I guess if you don't find jellybeans and bee queen crowns rewarding, then I dunno what to say.

14 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

iceboxs and salt boxes exist

thats how endgame works? its your reward, like toadstools mush lamps, plus CC shards equal infinite light. like you don't pick each grass like in the beginning, you use the shadow Sythe thing, bosses should have meaningful rewards because if they didn't why fight them?

Bee queen is not end game. CC shards can't be duped, you still have to repeat the whole moon cycle loop for every 6. Shadow scythe is hardly comparable to something that completely removes spoilage as a factor.

9 minutes ago, _zwb said:

And a very boring part of the game.

If food management is a boring part of the game, then maybe it should be explored and improved, rather than swept under the rug? Yeah crazy thought, I know.

[Nnumber3]

6 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Fun fact. Bundling wrap didn't used to be a blueprint drop from Bee Queen. But hey, I guess if you don't find jellybeans and bee queen crowns rewarding, then I dunno what to say.

Bee queen is not end game. CC shards can't be duped, you still have to repeat the whole moon cycle loop for every 6. Shadow scythe is hardly comparable to something that completely removes spoilage as a factor.

If food management is a boring part of the game, then maybe it should be explored and improved, rather than swept under the rug? Yeah crazy thought, I know.

Let me make this clear:  

Spoiler

YOU ARE BETTER THEN ABOUT 97% OF THE PLAYER BASE WITH OVER 7000 DAYS ON A WORLD AND MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT AS GOOD AS YOU

 

Yes i do know that, it used to drop from bee's.

bee queen crown sucks and I just deconstruct it for jelly. 

beans are good but not THAT good to spend my time getting something that's temporary unless you have tons of time on your hands when pierogi exists 

bee qween is not end game, but is as difficult and annoying as endgame bosses, when your alone (not wendy)  as she is either a: resource sink of bunnymen homes, a joke with a lot of people, or PAIN alone.

shards can't be duped BUT the moon cycle is not very long, and its a end game end game, that you're destroying its drops for infinite light. you would only do that if you already have the crown, means you have fought him more then once. 

The shadow scythe is not comparable but I was not comparing it to bundles, was reacting to the last part of your paragraph, about removing part of the game.

[SuperDonuts]

43 minutes ago, abrocator said:

Wax paper is used for storing food “in real life” (term of art). Why on earth would it be a bug?

Because, the wax paper does not completely stop spoilage. I am not even sure it stops any spoilage, it just protects the food from external events.
If you find an fruit in wax paper but you find out that it was packaged 1 year ago, would you eat it? 

[Nnumber3]

Just now, SuperDonuts said:

Because, the wax paper does not completely stop spoilage. I am not even sure it stops any spoilage, it just protects the food from external events.
If you find an fruit in wax paper but you find out that it was packaged 1 year ago, would you eat it? 

 as dst is known for its realism 

[_zwb]

29 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

If food management is a boring part of the game, then maybe it should be explored and improved, rather than swept under the rug? Yeah crazy thought, I know.

It's not that the foods system is boring, it's having to do the mundane, repetitive chores is boring. It's like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, here we met the basic needs and very naturally we want to do something better, creative, but we have to keep getting back to those chores and get interrupted. It's fine to do food management but after hundreds of hours in a world it gets really boring because it doesn't scale with your play time, this is the same with any other basic tasks in this game, the more you play the boring it is

[Nnumber3]

34 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Fun fact. Bundling wrap didn't used to be a blueprint drop from Bee Queen. But hey, I guess if you don't find jellybeans and bee queen crowns rewarding, then I dunno what to say.

Bee queen is not end game. CC shards can't be duped, you still have to repeat the whole moon cycle loop for every 6. Shadow scythe is hardly comparable to something that completely removes spoilage as a factor.

If food management is a boring part of the game, then maybe it should be explored and improved, rather than swept under the rug? Yeah crazy thought, I know.

She was not talking about food management, she was talking about the shadow scythe with grass and twigs

also honey exists sooooooooooooo unless your warly or wigfrid you can just store honey and just eat that with the amount bee's make

[abrocator]

13 minutes ago, SuperDonuts said:

Because, the wax paper does not completely stop spoilage. I am not even sure it stops any spoilage, it just protects the food from external events.

Which suggests it's a bug because...?

The item was meant for storing food. The game had already implemented reduced spoilage time. They could have easily made it perish 90% slower. Yet you're suggesting that it completely stops spoilage by accident based on what, exactly?

Old Wolfgang's speed buff was an unintended side-effect of his character's speed scaling with his, uh, in-game frame or something. It's got nothing to do with his increased damage threshold. That's why it was easy to miss and to ignore for the devs. It would be completely different—and much harder for them to miss—if they increased his damage multiplier to five or something, since increased damage output was his one and only (intended) perk. Likewise it would have been hard for the devs to miss that they supposedly accidentally made the bundle wrap “too good” at storing food when that was the main thing you were intended to do with it.

[cybers2001]

24 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

Let me make this clear:  

  Reveal hidden contents

YOU ARE BETTER THEN ABOUT 97% OF THE PLAYER BASE WITH OVER 7000 DAYS ON A WORLD AND MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT AS GOOD AS YOU

So I have some people saying that bundling wraps help players that aren't as good at the game, and I have other people saying that bundling wraps are balanced because only good players are able to unlock them. Do you not see the contradiction here?

 

24 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

Yes i do know that, it used to drop from bee's.

bee queen crown sucks and I just deconstruct it for jelly.

Bee queen crown is great, what you on about? Still a better way to manage sanity around bosses with insanity auras than the void cowl, since void cowl doesn't compensate for sanity drain from dusk/night/darksword, etc.

 

24 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

beans are good but not THAT good to spend my time getting something that's temporary unless you have tons of time on your hands when pierogi exists 

bee qween is not end game, but is as difficult and annoying as endgame bosses, when your alone (not wendy)  as she is either a: resource sink of bunnymen homes, a joke with a lot of people, or PAIN alone.

Well... so is Dragonfly, and, duping aside, I'd take jellybeans, bee queen hats, and honeycombs over dragon scales and a bunch of random gems any day.

 

24 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

shards can't be duped BUT the moon cycle is not very long, and its a end game end game, that you're destroying its drops for infinite light. you would only do that if you already have the crown, means you have fought him more then once. 

The shadow scythe is not comparable but I was not comparing it to bundles, was reacting to the last part of your paragraph, about removing part of the game.

Are you just playing devil's advocate, or do you actually legitimately have fun with bundle wraps the way you might with a shadow scythe? Because there are different ways to enhance gameplay loops, and there is a difference between ways that are more engaging and ways that are cheesy and lame.