Summer Wildfire Re-invented

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

23 hours ago, goatt said:

But your main arguments are more like, "but some people really enjoyed it" or "current state of (wild)fire is fine to me", so there is the difference.

This right here is called misrepresenting someone or just being too stubborn to consider other's points.

So tell me, what would be the best understanding of your argument if it's not ""but some people really enjoyed it" or "current state of (wild)fire is fine to me""?

(See I asked when I think I am probably wrong, now it's your time to show me I'm wrong)

[Nnumber3]

We have suppressed 100 replies! then again, its @goatt and @Mysterious box arguing for several pages while me and others sometimes get a word in lol (almost half of all my replies are in this thread)

[Mike23Ua]

I just don’t like a lot of the purposed reworking ideas for summer.. SUMMER the fourth and currently final weather season in the game- after freezing your butt off in winter becoming hunted by MacTusks, Deerclops & angry penguins if you dare to steal their eggs.. and dealing with what felt like eternal lightning strikes, rainfall and frogs falling from the sky in spring (also there’s a moosey goosey..) 

You have Summer.. which should rightfully be even more harsh than the previous two seasons. Yet most peoples suggestions want it to become summer fun in the sun.

I still want THESE to show up hurling fireballs at me in Summer..

they were only around for a limited time event called Forge that Xbox gamers NEVER got to play.. but they could easily fit into a Summer Rework.. redesign them to float after you throwing fireballs & you got a pretty cool summer exclusive mob.

[goatt]

30 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

We have suppressed 100 replies! then again, its @goatt and @Mysterious box arguing for several pages while me and others sometimes get a word

Sorry. That's another reason I want to stop this discussion xD.

[Nnumber3]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I just don’t like a lot of the purposed reworking ideas for summer.. SUMMER the fourth and currently final weather season in the game- after freezing your butt off in winter becoming hunted by MacTusks, Deerclops & angry penguins if you dare to steal their eggs.. and dealing with what felt like eternal lightning strikes, rainfall and frogs falling from the sky in spring (also there’s a moosey goosey..) 

You have Summer.. which should rightfully be even more harsh than the previous two seasons. Yet most peoples suggestions want it to become summer fun in the sun.

I still want THESE to show up hurling fireballs at me in Summer..

they were only around for a limited time event called Forge that Xbox gamers NEVER got to play.. but they could easily fit into a Summer Rework.. redesign them to float after you throwing fireballs & you got a pretty cool summer exclusive mob.

I would say our suggestions make summer harder, as right now wildfires are "i see smolder, i will hit it with ice staff, very hard" or " Smoulder off screen and destroy everything i ever own, which you place a ice flingo down, make sure its fueled, and you're done. very hard, finding ice and gears. your suggestion is like the Volcano from Shipwrecked, with the background, as those guys look like meteor heads, coming down and raining havoc down. sounds pretty cool actually, like having like a island with a volcano you have to appease, to stop them from coming, might be as tough as a mini boss. And encourage bringing summer clothes and not just use a thermal as the volcano will heat it up fast. encourages sailing so 2 birds, 1 stone. hmm ms mike had a good idea, might make up for the dragonfly fumble from earlier (seriously, scaled turf is the solution?) anyway, yeah, after i expanded on the concept it came of pretty good, ty for the inspiration!

[Captain_Rage]

On 8/8/2023 at 5:55 AM, Mysterious box said:

I mean is winter deep? Is spring? Is autumn? Is fighting a spider deep? If the answer is yes how? If the answer is no shall we rework all their existing mechanics?

They are trying to improve the Mona Lisa. xd

[Jandri]

7 hours ago, goatt said:

Just curious. What if each smoldering wildfire is limited to destroy 100-ish items? Do you think that's too insignificant?

I don't know how to understand your sentence.

Are you saying that every summer only 100 different wildfires could start? It almost never happens so often in a single summer.

Are you saying that when an object catches fire it is marked as "fire #1", which will transmit another fire to the nearest object which would be "fire #2"? And so on, until the fire spreads to a 99th object which will transmit "fire #100", and this 100th fire can no longer be transmitted to another object? If so, I think you would have found another solution, like leaving your base before so many items catch fire or putting fewer items next to each other if not protected by something like a flingo.

Or do you mean something else?

I think anyway that it will be almost impossible to find something that is not insignificant to someone who has built a large base, but have little impact on random inexperienced players who walk into a base they haven't built.

[chirsg]

Introduce otter to be recruitable as a follower that puts out fires in a radius around the player. Plz. Plz. but also plz

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Jandri said:

Are you saying that every summer only 100 different wildfires could start?

Sorry. I meant, each wildfire instance destroy 100 items, talking about whether significant enough.

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Jandri said:

Are you saying that when an object catches fire it is marked as "fire #1", which will transmit another fire to the nearest object which would be "fire #2"? And so on, until the fire spreads to a 99th object which will transmit "fire #100", and this 100th fire can no longer be transmitted to another object? If so, I think you would have found another solution

Yes, that's what I meant. But I think 100 individual stacks of items and structures are probably too many. But 100 items are too few.

Maybe spread 20 times, only for smoldering fire. Give wildfire a tranquil burning sound, and smaller flame. (20 items be like, 6 pots, 3 racks + 11 chests. Or 20 saplings. That would be a big trouble, but still manageable, when you log back on. 20 wooden walls burnt aren't too bad either, which only cost a stack of logs. Maybe 15 is better?)

(Red hound fire and other fire is still unlimited.)

[00petar00]

21 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I agree it would be nice to get stats but at the same time assuming everyone hates wildfires based on your experiences is bias me saying that there are people who like wild fires as much as there are people who don't is giving both sides the benefit of the doubt in that scenario you can't just assume everyone hates it because your playstyle choice makes it a no brainer to hate.

It seems that your logic is if some people like it, it must be bias? Or for me to say that more experienced players that I know dislike it.

We don't have numbers to confirm and most of the playerbase is casuals so they don't have an opinion on wildfires but if you talk to people that have played DST for a decent amount of time, a lot of the ones I know dislike wildfires. (A lot of them are not megabasers).

Also this all can be confirmed by players that base in oasis, any base you find in oasis just shows that players are running away from this mechanic and that makes it bad.

21 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Even if someone might not like certain parts of the mechanic also doesn't mean they want the entire mechanic to change.

Wildfires only do one thing, what part do you think players don't like?

 

21 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

If your asking for a change purely based on your playstyle preference there is very much a reason to discuss using the settings. Or taking personal responsibility with your building.

If it was just my playstyle, this thread wouldn't exist. What about the people that base in oasis every single time? If you look at endless servers, a decent amount of them have wildfires off, so it really isn't just the playstyle me and a small part of the community have.

21 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This conversation is seriously getting tedious to respond to because of you guys intentionally ignoring similar mechanics that can cause the same amount of damage because "insert inexperienced player here" for example deerclops, fire hounds etc. A warning doesn't suddenly make noobs more experienced teaching them does.

Deerclops should also be changed to not target building as much, I don't think bosses are nearly as much of a problem.

I don't like these mechanics either but there is a warning and new players learn about it quite fast, wildfires just happen in summer and nothing can be done about it and not everyone wants to spend summer in caves, so if bases burn down when he is exploring and this isn't the fault of the player if a base burns down but a bad mechanic.

If I play on pubs, I base in caves because of fire hounds, deerclops and most importantly wildfires.

21 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Removing any threat that would threaten unsafe builds that don't take fire damage into account is equally a terrible argument. The what you guys keep saying is I don't want to take preventive measure, I don't want to build compensating for potential disasters, I just want the game to avoid my base and I sit here wondering then why are you playing a survival game?

Literally every build is unsafe according to your words since fire hounds/deerclops will burn any builds you have on the mainland and you can't protect it from other player's mistakes.

What preventive measure is there that would save my base from a newer player fighting fire hounds in it? Flingomatics require fuel and just having to spam them everywhere so other players can turn them on if something happens is a bad solution as players can panic and not have enough time to turn it on or even know what it does.

We build "unsafe" bases because we know not to stay near them when wildfires happen, you can't do that on pubs and it isn't a great experience to have to build docks and make sure that knobby trees cover your whole base also docks may not look nice with the build.

21 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I think it just comes down to how we interpret it plants withering isn't meant to be as impactful as winter because as the final season the dangers are supposed to be more continuous than passive like winters it's going for a different experience. Antlion is a inversion of deerclops and that's what I feel makes her good instead of a threat that hunts you down looking for a fight you have a boss who you need to hunt down who goads you on with sinkholes. If they don't think to explore during the season to see if anything has changed then the player probably hasn't been exploring and likely missed all the other seasonal contents. Something that can also be nice to do in summer is catch the sunfish who is good long term for Wurt players or good for people who boat in winter. Wildfires work because it asks the player to be alert for just one season but it doesn't demand it giving you safe zones if you need time to wind down but if you choose to face it head on it gives you plenty of tools to face it. Wicker's rain book, Wicker's fire book, Water balloons, Watering cans (the boss one gets a decent amount of use here), ice staffs, and flingos. 

Not everything was renewable before so disease was much worse but even if it was in the game today, it would still be terrible chore. Disease takes away the reason for players to bring plants to their base it was better to just leave them where they are and not bother.

Antlion gets very boring when I have to kill it for the 40th time on the same world, we should be able to appease it so that it stays calm for multiple years at once or maybe a new item that we can give that will make Antlion a few times stronger but doesn't respawn for a few years if you kill.

If a player is exploring in summer, any "unsafe" build they find can smolder, in reality the build is safe when it is avoided in summer as it was designed that way.

Only Wurt is going to use Sunfish or Ice Bream for others it is better to use thermal stone.

The thing is that you expect players to be alert and carry luxury fans or other items to stop wildfires but you are also ignoring that the player may have joined in late spring or it is a new player. Also wildfires can happen off screen or barely in the corner of your monitor where you can't even see the smoldering or are moving away from it so what does doesn't matter if you are alert in this case.

Wickerbottom's rain rituals book is amazing for summer but it is character specific and only her and Maxwell can use it when that mechanic should exist for all characters if wildfires are going to stay as they are.

 

For the most of the points I just replied it looks to me like you are ignoring the multiplayer aspect, I know how to handle wildfires and my base will never burn down because of me no matter how "unsafe" it looks to you. I did say that I don't like wildfires even as a solo player because it limits my builds or chases me away from base but that doesn't mean that I stay in it and let it all burn down every summer.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Wildfires only do one thing, what part do you think players don't like?

Them appearing off screen when spawned by you the player as mentioned multiple times

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

If it was just my playstyle, this thread wouldn't exist. What about the people that base in oasis every single time? If you look at endless servers, a decent amount of them have wildfires off, so it really isn't just the playstyle me and a small part of the community have.

Never said it was a small part of the community but your implying that it's only a small part of the community who enjoys them what I've constantly said is there's many people on both sides and that assuming that isn't the case is a form of bias. I've been saying that's the case specifically because it keeps being impiled that there's only really people on one side with a few outliners you can't say I know a lot of people who do X therefore my argument is more valid. On top of that endless servers and survival servers are played with different playstyle mindsets. You guys are approaching the argument from the standpoint of I enjoy megabasing this disrupts megabasing therefore it's bad for the game what else can you call that?

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

It seems that your logic is if some people like it, it must be bias?

No it's if you take the stance of pretending to be impartial while pushing that the other side is wrong because of playstyle preference that is in fact bias. the very way the argument keeps being approached is "I believe next to no one likes wildfires sure I don't have evidence of this but so what your wrong. What you believe the opposite is also true well clearly your wrong."

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

If it was just my playstyle

This could imply there has never been threads dedicated to changes based on preference. Or that any thread made on a topic is completely valid. Or that there can't be a divide of of opinions in the community not saying it does but I feel like you should consider that line of logic.

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

What about the people that base in oasis every single time?

What about people who don't on various other servers. 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Literally every build is unsafe according to your words since fire hounds/deerclops will burn any builds you have on the mainland and you can't protect it from other player's mistakes.

So are you saying no matter how far apart objects are a single fire will always somehow hop to every single thing? If your saying a player will just stand there until everything is destroyed well I mean I can't really see how your trying to justify a player making really bad decisions as the game's fault.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't like these mechanics either but there is a warning and new players learn about it quite fast, wildfires just happen in summer and nothing can be done about it

1. Teach fire safety
2. Spread builds out so only afew things catch fire when it does happen
3. make signs that explain how to deal with wild fires
4. build in areas where you don't need to consider the actions of other people.

Amounts to nothing we can do about it I guess... Heck why not put up signs with instructions on how to handle wildfires.

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

What preventive measure is there that would save my base from a newer player fighting fire hounds in it? Flingomatics require fuel and just having to spam them everywhere so other players can turn them on if something happens is a bad solution as players can panic and not have enough time to turn it on or even know what it does.

We build "unsafe" bases because we know not to stay near them when wildfires happen, you can't do that on pubs and it isn't a great experience to have to build docks and make sure that knobby trees cover your whole base also docks may not look nice with the build.

So what's your solution remove any chances to make mistakes because you shouldn't have to accept playing on a multiplayer server means everyone can contribute both positively and negatively? This feels like getting upset over losing a life in a shared life multiplayer game like you knew what you were getting into in this situation. You can't go yea I want to play a multiplayer survival game and say but I don't want to face the consequences of multiplayer.

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Antlion gets very boring when I have to kill it for the 40th time on the same world, we should be able to appease it so that it stays calm for multiple years at once or maybe a new item that we can give that will make Antlion a few times stronger but doesn't respawn for a few years if you kill.

We've talked many times in the past on similar topics and really it just feels like your bored of the survival loop of the game there's really nothing I can do for you on that front but you being bored of it doesn't mean it should go away forever if you feel that way just turn it off.

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Only Wurt is going to use Sunfish or Ice Bream for others it is better to use thermal stone.

Forgetting I said on a boat where a tin fish bin will likely have already been made and some do in fact use them on a boat.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

If a player is exploring in summer, any "unsafe" build they find can smolder, in reality the build is safe when it is avoided in summer as it was designed that way.

Or if group responsibility is taken I know that's a foreign concept though.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Also wildfires can happen off screen or barely in the corner of your monitor where you can't even see the smoldering or are moving away from it so what does doesn't matter if you are alert in this case.

I've addressed this many times actually your just doing the usual stunt of conveniently ignoring my take on that specific topic

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

For the most of the points I just replied it looks to me like you are ignoring the multiplayer aspect

 How do you figure oh is it because you've painted me as someone who plays solo since I don't agree? Or is it because you've chosen to ignore solutions proposed in a multiplayer capacity?

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The thing is that you expect players to be alert and carry luxury fans or other items to stop wildfires but you are also ignoring that the player may have joined in late spring or it is a new player.

But I haven't as said many times before it's the responsibility of the players on the server to help fix this but I understand it's a common practice to leave new players for dead for some reason.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Wickerbottom's rain rituals book is amazing for summer but it is character specific and only her and Maxwell can use it when that mechanic should exist for all characters if wildfires are going to stay as they are

I'm aware which is why I suggested it alongside other methods.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Not everything was renewable before so disease was much worse but even if it was in the game today, it would still be terrible chore. Disease takes away the reason for players to bring plants to their base it was better to just leave them where they are and not bother.

Honestly I'm not sure why this keeps being brought up I wasn't even one of the players who liked it.

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I know how to handle wildfires and my base will never burn down because of me no matter how "unsafe" it looks to you. I did say that I don't like wildfires even as a solo player because it limits my builds or chases me away from base but that doesn't mean that I stay in it and let it all burn down every summer.

Yes however your builds are built with a singleplayer mindset for the sake of maximum creativity which is part of your problem you need to build with a multiplayer mindset so as to minimize the risk it doesn't mean you can't build creative builds but you should build in such a way that your entire base doesn't go down to a single fire.

 

Honestly I keep wanting to get away from this conversation which is why I didn't reply to goat but it seems like I'm stuck here regardless so here's to  our next stretch goal of 200 replies I guess.

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Never said it was a small part of the community but your implying that it's only a small part of the community who enjoys them what I've constantly said is there's many people on both sides and that assuming that isn't the case is a form of bias. I've been saying that's the case specifically because it keeps being impiled that there's only really people on one side with a few outliners you can't say I know a lot of people who do X therefore my argument is more valid. On top of that endless servers and survival servers are played with different playstyle mindsets. You guys are approaching the argument from the standpoint of I enjoy megabasing this disrupts megabasing therefore it's bad for the game what else can you call that?

Like I said, a lot of them aren't really megabasers but they do build a decent size base. Purely from the standpoint that this is bad mechanic in general when there are a limitless ideas you can have for survival mechanics that can be added to the game without ruining experience for any group of players.

You are biased when you bring settings into question and telling me to disable wildfires, why don't you turn every danger to more if you want to say that game is getting to easy, won't that solve your problem?

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

No it's if you take the stance of pretending to be impartial while pushing that the other side is wrong because of playstyle preference that is in fact bias. the very way the argument keeps being approached is "I believe next to no one likes wildfires sure I don't have evidence of this but so what your wrong. What you believe the opposite is also true well clearly your wrong."

According to your logic if 5 people like a mechanic (this is an exaggaration, I need to say this because you will take it out of context) it means that I am biased against it just because someone likes it. Majority of experienced players with 1000+ hours played don't find wildfires mechanic enjoyable, even if we ignore my experiences and players I know, you just need to do your own research and look at how many players base in Oasis. Go though 50 pubs and see how many of them have the biggest base there.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

So are you saying no matter how far apart objects are a single fire will always somehow hop to every single thing? If your saying a player will just stand there until everything is destroyed well I mean I can't really see how your trying to justify a player making really bad decisions as the game's fault.

 

How many people would like having to space every buildings or plants to change their style or building preference because of a mechanic that will burn everything if they don't do that? Also have you noticed anyone ever do that? This seems like a hypothetical situation that I have never seen in thousands of hours I have played this game and even if you saw it once or twice that doesn't mean that it holds any merit when almost no one does that.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

1. Teach fire safety
2. Spread builds out so only afew things catch fire when it does happen
3. make signs that explain how to deal with wild fires
4. build in areas where you don't need to consider the actions of other people.

Amounts to nothing we can do about it I guess... Heck why not put up signs with instructions on how to handle wildfires.

1. You can't do it if you aren't online and why would it be on the player to teach someone so that their buildings don't get set on fire?

2. Never seen anyone spread their builds to avoid wildfires and the point of the base is to have easier access to resources this especially matters when spacing twigs/grass or berry bushes and such.

3. Again something that I have never seen, pointless. Also doesn't solve the problem if someone finds your base in summer, they won't have time to read or react as they'll be dying to overheating.

4. That is what most of the players I know including me are doing and that just means evading the mechanic which makes it a bad mechanic to begin with.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

So what's your solution remove any chances to make mistakes because you shouldn't have to accept playing on a multiplayer server means everyone can contribute both positively and negatively? This feels like getting upset over losing a life in a shared life multiplayer game like you knew what you were getting into in this situation. You can't go yea I want to play a multiplayer survival game and say but I don't want to face the consequences of multiplayer.

Except there are mechanics that can hurt you and cause a loss but this mechanic literally takes out your whole base and it is too much of a punishment when it can be the fault of other players and this has been said so many times in this thread, why do you even want to go back to this?

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

We've talked many times in the past on similar topics and really it just feels like your bored of the survival loop of the game there's really nothing I can do for you on that front but you being bored of it doesn't mean it should go away forever if you feel that way just turn it off.

Being forced to do something over and over again, you'll get bored if you play as much as I do. Antlion is much more annoying because you have to go to his location.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Forgetting I said on a boat where a tin fish bin will likely have already been made and some do in fact use them on a boat.

 Ocean is empty as it has been discussed at length on the forums and for Ice Bream and Sunfish to be of some use, you'd need to be sailing a lot.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Or if group responsibility is taken I know that's a foreign concept though.

Group responsibility doesn't exist on pubs, you can't control who will join and if they have experience and in the same vein you can't blame new players if your base burns down or even experienced ones if they join in summer.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

How do you figure oh is it because you've painted me as someone who plays solo since I don't agree? Or is it because you've chosen to ignore solutions proposed in a multiplayer capacity?

Because your solutions aren't useful in multiplayer setting or you just want players to be punished excessively for playing on pubs and to become jaded and start ignoring new players and doing everything to hide their bases from them or base in oasis/caves.

If wildfires happen only on screen it doesn't mean that newer players will carry items that can extinguish fires and doesn't solve the problem if anyone joins in summer and base burns down because they didn't have the time to get any of the items needed to put out the fire.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

But I haven't as said many times before it's the responsibility of the players on the server to help fix this but I understand it's a common practice to leave new players for dead for some reason.

It is not the responsibility of active players to help or drop everything they are doing to run to portal every time someone joins and they can be in ruins or fighting Fuelweaver or CC and may not be able to respond fast enough for a number of other reasons.

It is literally the game's fault as wildfires are very bad for multiplayer and it is up to the player to survive on their own if they join in summer or winter, while active players can help them it is the player's decision on their own to join in a dangerous season.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Yes however your builds are built with a singleplayer mindset for the sake of maximum creativity which is part of your problem you need to build with a multiplayer mindset so as to minimize the risk it doesn't mean you can't build creative builds but you should build in such a way that your entire base doesn't go down to a single fire.

 

Again it comes back to it being a bad mechanic when DST is designed for multiplayer, I can argue that as a solo player bosses have more HP or use minions that are very annoying (BQ) but it always falls back to DST being a multiplayer game so why can a player join in summer and because of him my base burns down?

This mechanic held more merit in singleplayer and wasn't made for multiplayer.

 

[Jandri]

4 hours ago, goatt said:

Yes, that's what I meant. But I think 100 individual stacks of items and structures are probably too many. But 100 items are too few.

Maybe spread 20 times, only for smoldering fire. Give wildfire a tranquil burning sound, and smaller flame. (20 items be like, 6 pots, 3 racks + 11 chests. Or 20 saplings. That would be a big trouble, but still manageable, when you log back on. 20 wooden walls burnt aren't too bad either, which only cost a stack of logs. Maybe 15 is better?)

(Red hound fire and other fire is still unlimited.)

This is not what I understood at first. Well, 20 burned object seem to still be a threat, though there may be some weird ways to exploit it, like dropping thousands of twig to the ground for them to burn instead of your buildings, or building useless signs or other cheap buildings if the items on the round are not counted. I would 100% take if the other option is to completely remove the wildfires.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

If it was just my playstyle, this thread wouldn't exist. What about the people that base in oasis every single time? If you look at endless servers, a decent amount of them have wildfires off, so it really isn't just the playstyle me and a small part of the community have.

Deerclops should also be changed to not target building as much, I don't think bosses are nearly as much of a problem.

If I play on pubs, I base in caves because of fire hounds, deerclops and most importantly wildfires.

Literally every build is unsafe according to your words since fire hounds/deerclops will burn any builds you have on the mainland and you can't protect it from other player's mistakes.

For the most of the points I just replied it looks to me like you are ignoring the multiplayer aspect, I know how to handle wildfires and my base will never burn down because of me no matter how "unsafe" it looks to you. I did say that I don't like wildfires even as a solo player because it limits my builds or chases me away from base but that doesn't mean that I stay in it and let it all burn down every summer.

Maybe the wildfires and destructive mobs could behave differently in a survival server (keep them destructive) or endless (make them less destructive)? In survival severs, the players are meant to die at some point, and the players do not expect the same thing when playing survival or endless.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

If I play on pubs, I base in caves because of fire hounds, deerclops and most importantly wildfires.

What preventive measure is there that would save my base from a newer player fighting fire hounds in it? Flingomatics require fuel and just having to spam them everywhere so other players can turn them on if something happens is a bad solution as players can panic and not have enough time to turn it on or even know what it does.

We build "unsafe" bases because we know not to stay near them when wildfires happen, you can't do that on pubs and it isn't a great experience to have to build docks and make sure that knobby trees cover your whole base also docks may not look nice with the build.

If a player is exploring in summer, any "unsafe" build they find can smolder, in reality the build is safe when it is avoided in summer as it was designed that way.

I would personally prefer that your base get burned even if you are not there, this way abandoning your belongings would not work anymore and you would have to protect them actively (which makes more sense). With fueling the flingomatics less expensive to compensate.

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Not everything was renewable before so disease was much worse but even if it was in the game today, it would still be terrible chore. Disease takes away the reason for players to bring plants to their base it was better to just leave them where they are and not bother.

Some players were still moving the plants when the plants got diseased. There were no solutions, but some could have be found (like making the plants regrow naturally or adding items that cure the disease), instead of removing the whole mechanic.

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Wickerbottom's rain rituals book is amazing for summer but it is character specific and only her and Maxwell can use it when that mechanic should exist for all characters if wildfires are going to stay as they are.

I find this book too powerful, as it deletes the main features of both spring and summer.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Like I said, a lot of them aren't really megabasers but they do build a decent size base. Purely from the standpoint that this is bad mechanic in general when there are a limitless ideas you can have for survival mechanics that can be added to the game without ruining experience for any group of players.

You are biased when you bring settings into question and telling me to disable wildfires, why don't you turn every danger to more if you want to say that game is getting to easy, won't that solve your problem?

 

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

According to your logic if 5 people like a mechanic (this is an exaggaration, I need to say this because you will take it out of context) it means that I am biased against it just because someone likes it. Majority of experienced players with 1000+ hours played don't find wildfires mechanic enjoyable, even if we ignore my experiences and players I know, you just need to do your own research and look at how many players base in Oasis. Go though 50 pubs and see how many of them have the biggest base there.

Your saying you don't like a mechanic others enjoy so it should be removed that's personal bias. Your saying with no actual data that the majority of players don't like wildfires that's bias. Your saying the mechanic is bad because it ruins how you and a certain portion of the playerbase choose to engage with the game without considering how removing it effects the other half that's bias. Your saying that asking someone to turn something off if they don't enjoy it is bad but believe it's fine to remove a feature others enjoy based on your preference that's bias.

Have you questioned every player on every server on this topic of wildfires if so I'd love to see your research on the topic.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Also have you noticed anyone ever do that?

Yes

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

This seems like a hypothetical situation that I have never seen in thousands of hours I have played this game and even if you saw it once or twice that doesn't mean that it holds any merit when almost no one does that.

I mean you've been implying Noone but a small minority cares about wildfires to excuse me if I have my doubts.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Being forced to do something over and over again, you'll get bored if you play as much as I do. Antlion is much more annoying because you have to go to his location.

If your bored then stop? I get bored of expanding on base don't see me asking for it to be removed.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Group responsibility doesn't exist on pubs, you can't control who will join and if they have experience and in the same vein you can't blame new players if your base burns down or even experienced ones if they join in summer.

That's the risk you accept by joining a public server it's not a logical argument that just because you can't account for who joins or who makes a mistake your group shouldn't take responsibility.

 

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Because your solutions aren't useful in multiplayer setting or you just want players to be punished excessively for playing on pubs and to become jaded and start ignoring new players and doing everything to hide their bases from them or base in oasis/caves.

If wildfires happen only on screen it doesn't mean that newer players will carry items that can extinguish fires and doesn't solve the problem if anyone joins in summer and base burns down because they didn't have the time to get any of the items needed to put out the fire.

The punishment is only as excessive as your pride when building allows. If they become jaded but refuse to adjust their building habits to account for a multiplayer setting that's entirely the player's fault. As I said if someone builds their base in a killer bee field and gets stung to death you can't turn around and blame the game for your death.

It doesn't mean newer players will carry those items but that does mean those remaining on the server can teach them to as well as prepare at least a watering can they can take with them.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

It is not the responsibility of active players to help or drop everything they are doing to run to portal every time someone joins and they can be in ruins or fighting Fuelweaver or CC and may not be able to respond fast enough for a number of other reasons.

Just as it's not the game's responsibility to protect you from the consequences of that choice. No one is telling you that you have to take care of who joins but you equally can't blame them for making a mistake on "your" server if you don't feel like teaching them. A player who joins will do anything they can to try to survive if they join during that harsh season you can't be upset by the aftermath if you refuse to help.

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Again it comes back to it being a bad mechanic when DST is designed for multiplayer, I can argue that as a solo player bosses have more HP or use minions that are very annoying (BQ) but it always falls back to DST being a multiplayer game so why can a player join in summer and because of him my base burns down?

This mechanic held more merit in singleplayer and wasn't made for multiplayer.

I ask how? If you didn't want to account for anyone else in your survival why are you playing a multiplayer survival game in a public server? It has settings to remove that accountability but you feel that's not good enough I accept that just as you need to accept that if your playing a multiplayer survival game you need to accept that EVERYONE MATTERS when it comes to survival not just your close group on that server.

[Mike23Ua]

I am beyond confused at what this thread is even about, you want wildfires to only burn 100 items per summer? I mean… I think the most items I’ve let burn per summer (not counting forests I can replace) is like 15.. maybe 30.. and that’s while also building a huge “Mega-Base” and testing faith by playing with other players..

I mean- Other players can quite literally power off your fully fueled Iceflingo Machines just to be the trolls they are, and they’ll say things like “it ran out of fuel” it’s not like these need a constant supply of ice, Nitre or Gems like Winona’s Gem-Er-Rators, just throw some logs or rot over into them and they’re Re-fueled..

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Ice_Flingomatic
 

if your going to play the quote “Multiplayer Standalone expansion to Dont Starve”

then you need to be willing to accept that not EVERYONE you met in Multiplayer is your “Friend” even if they pretend to be helping… there’s no way of knowing their true intentions.

But the game sorta warns you of this with a clear label that says “strike out on your own or take your chances with strangers online.”

The ONLY thing we Really truly need is a more steady stream of gear supplies, which probably means Nerfing WX’s gear ability even more… but now that there’s portals opening up all over the map in both the caves and surface- I think it’s not unreasonable to expect scrapped concept mobs like the Clockwork Pawn, to spew out those portals…

And I’m not trying to tell Klei how to design their own game, but a mechanical spider with a lightbulb on it would likely drop both gears and electrical doodads upon killing..

Boom- More Iceflingo Machines, significantly less RNG or Boss/Ruins grind or tumbleweed plucking and Catcoon befriending to get them.

 

[Nnumber3]

I'm starting to get confused too. can we reel it in? I liked it more when we were all suggesting cool ideas like the latest @Mike23Ua and that tool one This topic was originally for suggesting ideas, not arguing whenever wildfires are good, and eventually summer itself. We have been going in circles for pages now.

[goatt]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I am beyond confused at what this thread is even about, you want wildfires to only burn 100 items per summer?

100 items per smoldering fire instance, or 20 stacks/structures per smoldering fire instance.

I'm asking people's feeling about the numbers, if you didn't notice. The suggestion was never about making fire insignificant, but about making it fair.

And it's making it fair by reducing its harshest punishment for accidental events in multiplayer, not reducing its regular low punishment.

 

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, goatt said:

100 items per smoldering fire instance, or 20 stacks/structures per smoldering fire instance.

I'm asking people's feeling about the numbers, if you didn't notice. The suggestion was never about making fire insignificant, but about making it fair.

And it's making it fair by reducing its harshest punishment for accidental events in multiplayer, not reducing its regular low punishment.

 

But my questions are Why do you feel like it’s an unfair punishment?

In contrast… if a player walks through Dragonfly’s biome, and a tumbleweed rolls though, hits her magma pond, catches on fire and then rolls into your base while on fire from that magma pond.. do you blame the player who was venturing through the nearby dragonfly biome? Or do you Blame yourself for not being vigilant enough about your base to set up some sort of defensive measures??

And by defensive measures I mean- Did you build walls around your base? Were they made of Hay or Wood and still flammable AF? 

Did you build an Ice Flingo Machine and keep it fueled even if it’s NOT Summer just encase in the very rare chance this actually possible above scenario with tumbleweeds happens? 

Did you have Water Balloons, Watering Cans, Ice Staffs, Strident Tridents, or a Almighty rain summoning Wickerbottom on hand to put out this Tumbleweed started fire?

What even qualifies as your “Base?” Do you count only the structures the player can craft in from the craft UI? (Science, Alchemy, Etc.. Walls, Cartography desk, Etc..) Or are you also counting EXTREMELY flammable natural growing world resources like Saplings, Berry Bushes & Grass Tufts as part of your “Base?”

There are a hundred variables that need to go into play here, but realistically you can place every survival based structure, (Cocking pot, fridges, storage boxes, campfire, alchemy, prestihatitor, shadow manipulator etc etc..) all within the range of a single Flingo machine.

I wouldn’t be against Klei doubling the effective range of a Ice Flingo machine… as well as giving it more unique skins.

Halloween is right around the Corner so they could get creative and make something like a small pool with an oversized octopus in it (inspired by the creepy cauldron skin) that flings water/ice balls with its tentacle arms.

We have tools to deal with Wildfires or freak Dragonfly tumbleweed accidents, so it can only be our fault when we don’t utilize them correctly.

[Popian]

1 hour ago, Nnumber3 said:

This topic was originally for suggesting ideas, not arguing whenever wildfires are good, and eventually summer itself.

When proposing a solution to a problem I think it's very on topic to talk about the problem itself.

Resorting to ridiculing, dismissing, and misdirection because it's not possible to counter a valid point that may not completely invalidate anything looks desperate.

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

But my questions are Why do you feel like it’s an unfair punishment?

It's unfair, when you lose the majority of the base or entire base simply because some wildfire happened without being noticed or handled, given smoldering sound effect is not big and its visual effect is not obvious.

That's why I suggest game reduce its max damage and improve its visual and audio cues.

As to your other question, I would just use a typical base for this discussion. Let's say the base size is modest, around 2 flingomatic-covered circles. With flingomatic installed covering all important stuff. But base is gone when the player got back online (by gone, I mean burnt racks, pots, workstations, chests and their contents, plus farms saplings, bushes and tufts). No walls, because typical bases don't have walls. Why wasn't fire put out if there were flingomatic? Because it was either a newbie's ignorant mistake, or the fire happened offscreen when, say the player was chatting in game or doing other stuff (I just invented this scenario for this "accident" thing).

In DS, a newbie is supposed to lose his game for his ignorant mistake, that's just how game works. But in multiplayer, while collateral damage is a nice feature, other players should lose all their stuff because someone else mistakes, given smoldering is such an uneventful challenge that's happening constantly in the background. It's important to limit collateral damage for creating good multiplayer experience.

 

There are 2 reasons why this is unfair. But before explaining that, I want to explain that in game, each action has 2 kinds of consequences. One for when an action is successful, and one for when an action fails. Let's see some examples:

- Take wetness protection as an example, success => safety, fail => deteriorating wellbeing (ranging from nothing to lots of terror beaks + something else).

- Take dodging bees and dodging deerclops as another example, success means safety and chance to victory, unsuccess means 10 damage from bees and 75 from deerclops. The constrast between 10 and 75 is justified for obvious reasons.

- Now look at ocean fishing, success => fish, unsuccess => losing lure.

- Freezing and overheating are the same.

- catching globbers, success => meat, unsuccess => loss of berries.

Would it be fair to give bees 75 damage as well? Does fair consequence for success mean fair consequence for failure of an action?

Now smoldering, success => safety, unsuccess => ranging from nothing to the loss of entire base and everything in it. Compared to wetness (which causes consequence from nothing to nightmare creature and other negative effects), failure to put out smoldering means potentially the end of game, and it can be caused by unintentional accidents by other people.

Most arguments against my suggestion under the thread focus on success => safety, and say this safety is very easy to achieve, which I completely agree. But those arguments also miss the point completely. Because the problem is about the unsuccess part.

The last time we have falling boulder from rifts destroying bases in its very first beta, it was success => safety, unsuccess => lose a small part of your base. It wasn't a popular idea. It was considered too much even as post-end-game content.

Now with pillars, which serve the same function as iceflingomatic to smoldering, unsuccess => small part of your base, which is way way less than the unsuccess consequence of smoldering. Plus pillar has bigger range than flingomatic (not verified by actual numbers)

So the unfairness comes from 2 places:

1. not the base owner's fault.

2. (unsuccess) consequence is too harsh.

My suggestion was only to reduced the harshest punishment possible, not to lessen the degree of all smoldering. If there are 6 pots around, they will still all get burnt.

(The success/unsuccess is essentially same as solution/punishment that I mentioned earlier. I hope this explanation helps.)

[Nnumber3]

1 hour ago, Popian said:

When proposing a solution to a problem I think it's very on topic to talk about the problem itself.

Resorting to ridiculing, dismissing, and misdirection because it's not possible to counter a valid point that may not completely invalidate anything looks desperate.

When did I ever Ridicule, dismiss, or misdirected anything? I have given points on my view and told why I disagree respectfully. I have not even really commented my opinion in like a page, just cracking jokes, calm down man, seems like you're a bit desperate, accusing me of these things. I was just saying that it in my opinion it was more fun when it was more civil, just suggesting ideas, as I like making ideas. I never said it was off topic, it was more of a wrap up of what this Thead is about, and what it has came too, compared to the title.

btw if you're talking about when ms mike suggested scaled flooring and scaled chests as a solution to wildfires, it was the 2nd funniest hot take I have ever read, and I thought it was a joke until I reread it, it was that ignorant. (Not arrogant). as she only fought her about 3 times. and she did ask to correct her...

and it was funny calm down

 

[Mike23Ua]

Unfortunately it does not.. because I’ve played this game long enough in multiplayer, note MULTIPLAYER (not Klei official or Klei dedicated servers..) the only option on Xbox is to host your own world, or join someone else’s.

This means that every single server you join is a random grab bag of experience depending on what the host of the world has or does not have toggled on or off. 

Now to discuss the more juicy variables, DST isn’t intended to be this multiplayer designed game, in fact it was only ever supposed to be sold as a Multiplayer DLC to the single player game- That is literally what Multiplayer Standalone expansion means…

Not a Sequel, Just “Don’t Starve but with other players..”

Its like uhm Red Dead Redemption, and Red Dead Undead Nightmare, Undead Nightmare was a DLC for RDR, but you only needed to buy the DLC.. you didn’t need to buy the game to play the DLC.

This is what DST is.. (and correct me if I’m wrong but it was also given away for free for awhile on PC)

You’re wanting all these multiplayer focused I will just call them “Safety Nets” for DST.. but it’s really just supposed to be DS with extra players.

but where are your safety nets when NOONE fights or appeases the Ant-Lion? it’s crater/Boulder dropping attacks increase from 3 up to 7..

That is now 7 craters or ceiling collapses rumbling under your feet, causing worldly destruction in whatever unfortunate place you happen to be in at the time..

What about Eye of Terror? This thing literally plays Spin the Bottle on who it decides to take out on Date Night..

And if a player was to say, fight it till it triggers its phase 2, and then let it despawn.. then summon it again that night on a random Wilson who just sit up his base.. 

That eye of terror (or worse Twins of terror, summoned by first killing original EOT and then socketing nightmare fuel into the empty terrarium) EoT/ToT in phase 2 will use swooping and Ground slam attacks that can break structures and destroy walls.

This boss… which is literally a Pokémon inside a Pokeball that can be carried around in you pocket- Chooses a RANDOM player to torment for a full Night..

im telling you all of this to try and convey exactly what type of game DST is..

Its “Uncompromising” that doesn’t mean it’s got to be the hardest game ever… it just means that a lot of things are going to happen that can feel “Unfair”

Such as.. random noob running into your base hoping you will protect them when Antlion unleashes a wraith of 7 craters under their feet. Or Date Night with the EoT/ToT.

Wildfires are no exception either, if you don’t want certain things to burn, you need to ensure those certain things safety, such as keeping replacements on hand in fireproof chests should disaster happen, or setting up Above Average Trees/Flingo Machines.

I worry because Klei in the past instead of improving and making a disliked feature better, instead opt’d to outright remove it from the game entirely..

So there’s a bit of bitterness there for me. 

[goatt]

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now to discuss the more juicy variables, DST isn’t intended to be this multiplayer designed game... You’re wanting all these multiplayer focused I will just call them “Safety Nets” for DST.. but it’s really just supposed to be DS with extra players.

I agree. But that's another topic.

If we focus on the main topic. How would my suggestion affect the game?

1. still has smoldering.

2. still can potential burn large area of a base, if there are enough flammable around

3. Fire hounds still can burn the entire base with unlimited spread

4. Smoldering won't burn your entire base.

 

So in worst cases, what my suggestion removes is that you can't lose the game from smoldering, am I right?

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wildfires are no exception either, if you don’t want certain things to burn, you need to ensure those certain things safety, such as keeping replacements on hand in fireproof chests should disaster happen, or setting up Above Average Trees/Flingo Machines.

I have said it many many times.

I have above-average tree. I remove flammable items near edge of canopy. I returf edge so nothing can grow and burn. I place iceflingomatic near edge in addition to ocean tree pillar. What did I get? A burnt base. 

If you don't like my suggestions, at least acknowledge my problem and don't deny it or outright dismiss it (by doing A, B C, which I have already done.)

In case you wanna know how did it burn after I did all that. random bird seeds from new players. random manure from beefalo vehicles. rots.

[Mike23Ua]

If you had all these fire preventive measures in place, but somehow base still caught fire.. then maybe it’s not the Wildfires that caused it?

I don’t want to tell you who you can and can’t trust.. but the more likely scenario is someone powered off (or even directly burned down..) your ice Flingo machine, and then they Proceeded to use a lighter to burn down your base because #FilthyWillow Mains.

(Im joking.. Willow gets blamed far too much for being the grief character, but the reality is anyone can craft a torch..)

I just find it hard to believe that if you built fire prevention methods & they failed to prevent the fire.. that’s either a flaw in the games design, or someone intentionally being malicious in your world (which is the more likely case)

If you want complete and total control over your worlds though, you should host your own worlds, that way when your not playing.. people can’t just join and well uhh burn your base.

And more importantly when someone DOES join and burn your base.. you can just Kick/Ban them and Roll the game back to before they did it like nothing ever happened.