Summer Wildfire Re-invented

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, goatt said:

Therefore, the chef vs diner metaphor. I was not comparing my preference to yours as one diner to another. I was asking you to be a chef, and asking you to think about how to create a good salt level for everyone. You have so far yet attempted to be chef. You always speak as a diner, and assume I'm also a diner. When you start to speak like a chef, then you are qualified to criticize my salt level, and your criticism would be interesting enough for other chef to consider.

I've already spoke on improvements just not the ones you wanted but since you didn't get the answer you wanted you feel my opinion is flawed. This is a difference in playstyle preference your not putting yourself in my shoes in a sincere way and I'm not expecting you to but I'm also not going to accept you pushing your bias on the topic as fact.

[goatt]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I've already spoke on improvements

Can you re-link it to me? If you can specify paragraph, it would even better.

[Nnumber3]

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I've already spoke on improvements just not the ones you wanted but since you didn't get the answer you wanted you feel my opinion is flawed. This is a difference in playstyle preference your not putting yourself in my shoes in a sincere way and I'm not expecting you to but I'm also not going to accept you pushing your bias on the topic as fact.

Your getting there! like you did say a idea, not spreading of screen, which is good, but as SO MANY PEOPLE AS SAID, you're missing the point and I think your just being stubborn right now, like i feel your the type of person that hates change in anyway, like things just catch on fire, that's it, if that's exciting to you then i will welcome you to a new activity! watching paint dry! like with your logic, its either max bulls**t a meter or boring, like i as i said, applaud to you trying to lower the bulls**T meter a bit with the idea, but it still gives far too high consequences for such a simple mistake on not seeing smoldering, as it's not like a neon sign pointing "HELP". that's why we should reWORK it, into something BETTER. or just rework the whole season of summer. i feel we have been going in circles for several pages now.

[Mysterious box]

On 8/4/2023 at 4:34 PM, Mysterious box said:

How about if instead we shrink the range from the player so it can't happen off screen while also giving the player a quote for when one is happening so it's hard to miss.

 

4 minutes ago, goatt said:

Can you re-link it to me? If you can specify paragraph, it would even better.

There.

3 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

Your getting there! like you did say a idea, not spreading of screen, which is good, but as SO MANY PEOPLE AS SAID, you're missing the point and I think your just being stubborn right now, like i feel your the type of person that hates change in anyway, like things just catch on fire, that's it, if that's exciting to you then i will welcome you to a new activity! watching paint dry! like with your logic, its either max bulls**t a meter or boring, like i as i said, applaud to you trying to lower the bulls**T meter a bit with the idea, but it still gives far too high consequences for such a simple mistake on not seeing smoldering, as it's not like a neon sign pointing "HELP". that's why we should reWORK it, into something BETTER. or just rework the whole season of summer. i feel we have been going in circles for several pages now.

I think your missing the point so let me try and be more direct. There are people who enjoy wildfires as a mechanic just not the part we can't account for which is them spawning without our knowledge on the edge of the screen and I get it you don't like wild fires but that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with you on that and no that doesn't make them crazy not everyone likes the same things it's the very reason conflicts emerge assuming you know people's tastes best to the point you can decide what is and isn't fun however is nothing but arrogant.

[Nnumber3]

What I don't get is WHY you think wildfires are a fun mechanic, like this is reminding me of the people who were mad when they removed research points back when. As I said, it's just something catches on fire, that's it, it's not deep, I'm not sure what why you regard it so highly, and you saying you don't like parts of it means its flawed, and we are trying to fix it. and yes, not every1 will agree, but no one will EVER agree on anything. like for example as I said, research points, or for a real-world example, slavery, does that mean as people disagreed that slavery was bad meant they were nothing but arrogant and forcing opinions on others? no! we never said you were crazy, we are just saying ideas, and defending them and sharing opinions. and the last part is weird, like YOU are assuming YOUR taste is best like you could say watching paint dry is fun, and someone says it's not, does that mean he is arrogant? NO, that's a bad point. i am not going to respond untill morning as im going to sleep.

[goatt]

52 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

There are people who enjoy wildfires as a mechanic just not the part we can't account

I understand that. I put forward the chef vs diner metaphor, in order to detach personal feeling. So that when I remove other individuals' preference or my own preference from the consideration, it would feel equally ok.

The form I would consider meaningful in discussing this would be like this:

- deerclops 4000 hp and 75 damage, but his loot is not overpowered. And she's the first boss, so that's justified.

- fuel weaver is final boss, he's supposed to be hard, so having this mech and that mech is good.

- bee queen's drop is too good, that's why it's reasonable to A, B and C

- acid rain is a constant ambient challenge, just like rain, heat and cold, therefore it's ok to give acid rain similar damage to freezing and overheating, even boost its damage a little bit more on heavy acid rain

Then if we apply the same form to fire: wildfire is ok because (imagine) its maximum damage is similar to the scale of antlion's sinkhole (ambient boss damage). 

The actual argument here is not important, and that wasn't my actual argument, I'm just using it as example how to make arguments like chef.

But your main arguments are more like, "but some people really enjoyed it" or "current state of (wild)fire is fine to me", so there is the difference.

 

52 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

How about if instead we shrink the range from the player so it can't happen off screen while also giving the player a quote for when one is happening so it's hard to miss.

Your suggestion of shrinking range would be an improvement if its implementation is equally epic than antlion's sinkhole attack, if not more. But looking straight at it, I think it solves a different problem than what I posed. Because the problem of accidental burning down of an entire base still exists, which is the core of why it's not fair.

My suggestion was to reduce fire punishment to burning down a smaller part of the base, rather than burning as much as the fire can, which is to scale down its damage to its peer, namely antlion's sinkhole. That's a chef's measurement of salt level, without diner's input. Measured by tsp per pound, rather who likes it.

And again, I understand you like the current fire. I have no intention to invalidate your preference or ignore it. I simply came up a good reason or perspective to not look at it (your preference AND my preference). Personally, I'm a pro in dealing with wildfire in summer. And my bases are usually fire proof, even accidental fire proof, because I play smart to prevent hurting my own feeling. But none of what I do or like matters, just like none of what you do or like to this specific topic. Anyways, just wanna acknowledge your preference for the record.

[Mysterious box]

54 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

What I don't get is WHY you think wildfires are a fun mechanic, like this is reminding me of the people who were mad when they removed research points back when. As I said, it's just something catches on fire, that's it, it's not deep,

I mean is winter deep? Is spring? Is autumn? Is fighting a spider deep? If the answer is yes how? If the answer is no shall we rework all their existing mechanics?

54 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

you saying you don't like parts of it means its flawed

I mean that applies to just about everything your going to find a group of people who don't like something about don't starve together heck just check the steam reviews. By that standard shall we get to work on reworking everything?

 

54 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

we are trying to fix it.

We have different ideas on what fixing means it seems and there's nothing wrong with that I'm not asking you to agree just not to assume your way is the superior option.

 

54 minutes ago, Nnumber3 said:

does that mean as people disagreed that slavery was bad meant they were nothing but arrogant and forcing opinions on others? no! we never said you were crazy, we are just saying ideas, and defending them and sharing opinions.

 

1 hour ago, Nnumber3 said:

I think your just being stubborn right now, like i feel your the type of person that hates change in anyway, like things just catch on fire, that's it, if that's exciting to you then i will welcome you to a new activity! watching paint dry! like with your logic, its either max bulls**t a meter or boring

I don't know this paints a particular picture and I'm not sure how else to interpret it.

34 minutes ago, goatt said:

But your main arguments are more like, "but some people really enjoyed it" or "current state of (wild)fire is fine to me", so there is the difference.

On the flipside your main argument has been but things can go wrong when I'm offline and that shouldn't happen.

  

34 minutes ago, goatt said:

Because the problem of accidental burning down of an entire base still exists.

And I once again bring up the topic that it's already a feature you should be familiar with as various survival mechanics do the same or similar there are various adjustments you can do to prevent this including changing how close you build things as mentioned on loop. We're playing a survival game where the goal is to survive against a harsh world accidents will happen we just need to try our best to take preventive measures. Not change mechanics so failures are a slap on the wrist on a already limited time season.

 

34 minutes ago, goatt said:

My suggestion was to reduce fire punishment to burning down a smaller part of the base, rather than burning as much as the fire can, which is to scale down its damage to its peer, namely antlion's sinkhole. That's a chef's measurement of salt level, without diner's input. Measured by tsp per pound, rather who likes it.

That's not a chef's assessment though your being the diner here by easing the mechanic to suite your preference and passing it off as a objective fact that's what you call bias. Disagreeing on things like this fine until you try to take a superior stance based on your playstyle preference which is what your doing in this situation.

I figured I should add you should be comparing wildfires to their seasonal equivalents rather than bosses as it's threat level scales based on how those not bosses summer is the final evolution of seasonal threats that built up throughout the year. Winter starts by being cold, Winter continues by being wet which leads to being cold, sanity loss, item slippage, and lightning strikes. Finally summer ends the year by being hot, fires breaking out, and sinkholes to finally scale back down to autumn. I understand the sinkholes are a boss mechanic but it falls more under a seasonal mechanic that can be disabled by a boss fight.

[Nnumber3]

44 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean is winter deep? Is spring? Is autumn? Is fighting a spider deep? If the answer is yes how? If the answer is no shall we rework all their existing mechanics?

I mean that applies to just about everything your not going to find a group of people who don't like something about don't starve together heck just check the steam reviews. By that standard shall we get to work on reworking everything?

 compared to the other seasons threats: in winter, its cold and there's several ways to not be cold, fire, thermal, warmth clothing, etc and there's plenty of things to do walrus hunting prepping for deerclops, prepping for spring, perfect time to sail, the plants don't grow so you need alternate sources, you can use tumbleweeds or stockpile. food can also be an issue as berry bushes don't grow and other food plants, so your motivated to hunt, which is demonstrated by the winter kolephant, as it drops a great winter item, but hunting is harder as you need heat, and lighting trees don't work as the hunt disappears after a minute, so you need some insulation clothes or risk wasting your time and hurting yourself similar for beefalo,  the beefalo hat encourages to kill beefalo for meat and find a way to not trigger the whole herd and it also solves the beefalo heat problem, which is required for taming in winter/spring. it's the first "hard season" and deerclops can destroy your base, BUT it gives ADVANCE warning. Spring: there are several ways to stop rain, wicker rain book, umbrella football helm, eyebrella, a reward for killing deerclops instead of just leaving him. there are several ways to dry yourself, warly dish, full protection over time, fire. if you did not kill deerclops you could get a raincoat, but you sacrifice your backpack or body armor. Moose goose spawns near ponds and drops loot for summer and useful loot for bosses. It can frog rain, and there's ways to deal with this, you can fight them but they swarm fast so thats not a good idea, so we have to startagize: we can run to the caves, as they can't fall in the caves, you can also go out to sea, as frogs can't drop on boats. you can also makes creatures fight them, as the beefalo are still in heat, and if your smart enough you can get rewarded with tons of frog legs, same with moose goose.  Autumn: it's the first season, you can do any nonspecific season things here: you could go sailing, ruins rushing, grab a iridescent gem as wicker, make your base, explore the world, think what landmark you want to find, etc. a spider: there are several ways to kill it, with a weapon of course, but there's always more than 1, do you want to lure some spiders to kill 1 by 1? that costs time, you want to take on the hoard? it more risk but more reward as in time. it punishes you for being reckless by fighting on the web, spawning warriors, so its encouraged to lure them out, but its faster to kill the warriors and get more spider loot from a nest. do you want to wait for the nest to grow for the immediate silk, or let it grow, be more spiders so a harder fight, but get more silk and spider eggs, a reward for the hard fight you did not need to do. Compared, summer has overheating, which is winter but reversed, there are less options this time though. unlike winter you can restore your plants with flingos, so its not too impactful as winter's. antlion is not as good as deerclops as there is a warning when he attacks, but he does not come for you so it's easier to forgot and just walk away from base and ignore the boss, and loot is not good and fighting him is hard without a wiki as A: spawn in a sandstorm, which discourages going in, and players won't go in after they see the speed decrease. so, they won't know he exists, and how would they know to start the fight? So we have 2 features from winter that's worse here, and the only other thing.is wildfires, as we discussed.

We have different ideas on what fixing means it seems and there's nothing wrong with that I'm not asking you to agree just not to assume your way is the superior option. We do, I never said it was the "superior option" i was just sharing my ideas and commenting on others, if i disagree, i disagree, and i explain why. i was not trying to convince you to think my idea is gospel, I'm just answering your 
questions, as this thread has been going you: "quote what we say and say something", Me: "explain more on my points and defend my stance"   You: "quote response and defend you point" repeat about 7 times.

I don't know this paints a particular picture and I'm not sure how else to interpret it.

I was just trying to put an example using your logic, trying to understand how you think so I can understand. i used the wrong example as I unintentionally painted you as bad as them, sorry if it came off that way, but you get the point as in that point does not work.

the rest of the quotes are @goatt so I will let him explain and not put words in his mouth.

(If you want more in depth descriptions of the games mechanics ask me, as it helps me appreciate the game more as you don't think this kind of stuff until asked or after you play as while you play its subconscious, its fun)

(Why I'm I still up, I said I was going to sleep, computer so temping...)

Wow 44 minutes it took to make this

 

 

 

[00petar00]

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

That's not a chef's assessment though your being the diner here by easing the mechanic to suite your preference and passing it off as a objective fact that's what you call bias. Disagreeing on things like this fine until you try to take a superior stance based on your playstyle preference which is what your doing in this situation.

I figured I should add you should be comparing wildfires to their seasonal equivalents rather than bosses as it's threat level scales based on how those not bosses summer is the final evolution of seasonal threats that built up throughout the year. Winter starts by being cold, Winter continues by being wet which leads to being cold, sanity loss, item slippage, and lightning strikes. Finally summer ends the year by being hot, fires breaking out, and sinkholes to finally scale back down to autumn. I understand the sinkholes are a boss mechanic but it falls more under a seasonal mechanic that can be disabled by a boss fight.

I wish klei would give us stats on how many people actually disable wildfires, it seems like bias more on your side and @goatt seems to be speaking on the changes that majority of experienced players would prefer.

When disease was in the game, wildfires were the second setting players discussed on whether to disable and now it is the first. So there is some hope that changes will be made or it will be replaced.

Even if someone doesn't disable wildfires it doesn't mean that they enjoy it but just stick to default settings so to go back to your earlier argument that players need to accept settings of the host when the host is hesitant to make any changes to the settings and simply disabling wildfires when there's no replacement mechanic makes summer too easy.

There are many factors as to why settings are left unchanged and it doesn't mean that players like the mechanic or think that it is fun when they do that so it doesn't make any sense to discuss being able to change settings in this instance when we are speaking on mechanics that are not enjoyable or use it as argument for mechanics to stay in the game just because they can be disabled.

 

Bosses are completely different because most players can figure out that a boss is spawning by the signs game gives you and learn quite fast how to avoid them or keep them from destroying your base but summer wildfires can burn your whole base down or resources around the map just because someone is there without any warning.

This is terrible for multiplayer and encourages players to make private servers if they keep wildfires on, even more than other base destruction mechanics. There is literally no good reason to host a public server if you like building and don't want to see your bases destroyed. I've seen some replies saying something along these lines "it is your fault for playing on a pub and to expect players to mess with your base when you are offline" and this is not as good of an argument you think it is.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

@goatt seems to be speaking on the changes that majority of experienced players would prefer.

The issue is that's a opinion your coming to based on your preference which is why I'm claiming there are people on both sides who like and dislike it because I know many who do enjoy it as a mechanic despite it's faults.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I wish klei would give us stats on how many people actually disable wildfires, it seems like bias more on your side

I agree it would be nice to get stats but at the same time assuming everyone hates wildfires based on your experiences is bias me saying that there are people who like wild fires as much as there are people who don't is giving both sides the benefit of the doubt in that scenario you can't just assume everyone hates it because your playstyle choice makes it a no brainer to hate.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Even if someone doesn't disable wildfires it doesn't mean that they enjoy it but just stick to default settings

Even if someone might not like certain parts of the mechanic also doesn't mean they want the entire mechanic to change.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

There are many factors as to why settings are left unchanged and it doesn't mean that players like the mechanic or think that it is fun when they do that so it doesn't make any sense to discuss being able to change settings in this instance when we are speaking on mechanics that are not enjoyable or use it as argument for mechanics to stay in the game just because they can be disabled.

If your asking for a change purely based on your playstyle preference there is very much a reason to discuss using the settings. Or taking personal responsibility with your building.

 

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Bosses are completely different because most players can figure out that a boss is spawning by the signs game gives you and learn quite fast how to avoid them or keep them from destroying your base but summer wildfires can burn your whole base down or resources around the map just because someone is there without any warning.

This conversation is seriously getting tedious to respond to because of you guys intentionally ignoring similar mechanics that can cause the same amount of damage because "insert inexperienced player here" for example deerclops, fire hounds etc. A warning doesn't suddenly make noobs more experienced teaching them does.

3 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

This is terrible for multiplayer and encourages players to make private servers if they keep wildfires on, even more than other base destruction mechanics. There is literally no good reason to host a public server if you like building and don't want to see your bases destroyed. I've seen some replies saying something along these lines "it is your fault for playing on a pub and to expect players to mess with your base when you are offline" and this is not as good of an argument you think it is.

Removing any threat that would threaten unsafe builds that don't take fire damage into account is equally a terrible argument. The what you guys keep saying is I don't want to take preventive measure, I don't want to build compensating for potential disasters, I just want the game to avoid my base and I sit here wondering then why are you playing a survival game?

 

7 hours ago, Nnumber3 said:

Compared, summer has overheating, which is winter but reversed, there are less options this time though. unlike winter you can restore your plants with flingos, so its not too impactful as winter's. antlion is not as good as deerclops as there is a warning when he attacks, but he does not come for you so it's easier to forgot and just walk away from base and ignore the boss, and loot is not good and fighting him is hard without a wiki as A: spawn in a sandstorm, which discourages going in, and players won't go in after they see the speed decrease. so, they won't know he exists, and how would they know to start the fight? So we have 2 features from winter that's worse here, and the only other thing.is wildfires, as we discussed.

I think it just comes down to how we interpret it plants withering isn't meant to be as impactful as winter because as the final season the dangers are supposed to be more continuous than passive like winters it's going for a different experience. Antlion is a inversion of deerclops and that's what I feel makes her good instead of a threat that hunts you down looking for a fight you have a boss who you need to hunt down who goads you on with sinkholes. If they don't think to explore during the season to see if anything has changed then the player probably hasn't been exploring and likely missed all the other seasonal contents. Something that can also be nice to do in summer is catch the sunfish who is good long term for Wurt players or good for people who boat in winter. Wildfires work because it asks the player to be alert for just one season but it doesn't demand it giving you safe zones if you need time to wind down but if you choose to face it head on it gives you plenty of tools to face it. Wicker's rain book, Wicker's fire book, Water balloons, Watering cans (the boss one gets a decent amount of use here), ice staffs, and flingos. 

[Antynomity]

Hot Take: all seasons are kind of bland (mostly because all of them are nearly identical to how they were 9 years ago).

I'm not saying they need a full on rework but changes to some existing mechanics (like wildfires) and adding new ones (that aren't flat and just there to add grind and actually have some substance) could be beneficial.

Though before that happens I'd rather see Cave world-gen to be reworked, Caves to be updated as a whole, ocean fleshed out blah blah.

And before even that could happen I'd rather for the rifts to get fleshed out (which seems to be the thing that's going to happen, which is good).


But yes, wildfires are awful in their current form, the definition of an anti-fun mechanic.

[Nnumber3]

37 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

Hot Take: all seasons are kind of bland (mostly because all of them are nearly identical to how they were 9 years ago).

I'm not saying they need a full on rework but changes to some existing mechanics (like wildfires) and adding new ones (that aren't flat and just there to add grind and actually have some substance) could be beneficial.

Though before that happens I'd rather see Cave world-gen to be reworked, Caves to be updated as a whole, ocean fleshed out blah blah.

And before even that could happen I'd rather for the rifts to get fleshed out (which seems to be the thing that's going to happen, which is good).


But yes, wildfires are awful in their current form, the definition of an anti-fun mechanic.

I would love if after this arc they made an arc improving on ALL FOUR seasons and their mechanics, as yes as i said they are plenty of complex mechanics, but there all outdated like 9 years ago and wonder how they would improve the experience, in the modern day.

[Atkvin]

On 8/5/2023 at 4:05 AM, _zwb said:

Make a boss called "wild fire"

Bit of a tangent, but an idea I had long ago was actually to replace wildfire conceptually with a fire bird mob which would serve as a source of fires - since I liked the connection of wildfires only happening in the player's vision (well, they should, anyway) and how bird mobs behave, with a single bird flying away and back into the player's vision when they are chased away, kinda only existing in the player's sphere of vision.

The off-screen burning would be easily fixed by Mysterious' suggestion - but I just had to expand on the idea of turning wildfires into a mob/boss however silly it might sound. You'd deal with this mob like dealing with any normal birds, chasing it away when it flies down to stop it from burning a nearby tree, pacifying it with sleep stuff so it stops chasing you around setting the world on fire. Maybe you could make or augment bird traps to catch it and trap it in a bird cage to pacify it for good eventually.

Here's a piece of concept art of the thing from a series of season rework pictures I made.. Not so much concept art as much as just showing the survivors desperately trying to deal with it haha. Summer was the only one I never finished

Spoiler

Oh yeah, it'd stop time too, making it eternally daytime if you don't appease it - hence Wanda's puzzlement. Fun and not at all broken mechanic.

[Antynomity]

4 minutes ago, Atkvin said:

snip

Man, I like that idea honestly. Also, a bird made of fire caged in my base sounds sick.

[Nnumber3]

4 minutes ago, Atkvin said:

Bit of a tangent, but an idea I had long ago was actually to replace wildfire conceptually with a fire bird mob which would serve as a source of fires - since I liked the connection of wildfires only happening in the player's vision (well, they should, anyway) and how bird mobs behave, with a single bird flying away and back into the player's vision when they are chased away, kinda only existing in the player's sphere of vision.

The off-screen burning would be easily fixed by Mysterious' suggestion - but I just had to expand on the idea of turning wildfires into a mob/boss however silly it might sound. You'd deal with this mob like dealing with any normal birds, chasing it away when it flies down to stop it from burning a nearby tree, pacifying it with sleep stuff so it stops chasing you around setting the world on fire. Maybe you could make or augment bird traps to catch it and trap it in a bird cage to pacify it for good eventually.

Here's a piece of concept art of the thing from a series of season rework pictures I made.. Not so much concept art as much as just showing the survivors desperately trying to deal with it haha. Summer was the only one I never finished

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh yeah, it'd stop time too, making it eternally daytime if you don't appease it - hence Wanda's puzzlement. Fun and not at all broken mechanic.

 

Sounds like a neat idea, and with some balancing it sounds like high threat, perhaps give it more health so it won't die easy, and respawns after like 6 days, which no fires will happen. maybe It should just made days SUPER long, instead of only day, like 1 segment of night and dusk. guess it would be like antlion but more obvious and if it has fiire attacks to defend it self, sounds cool,cool.

(wow i like when the thread is giving ideas to replace wildfires, as this thread is about reinventing wildfires, not arguing whenever wildfires are good or not.)

[Jakepeng99]

(Poll) Do you like/turn off wildfires?

I made a poll to see if people turn them off, or like them. Check it out.

 

[Nnumber3]

Thank you so much, we should have some data soon

 

[Jandri]

11 hours ago, Nnumber3 said:

We are not trying to REMOVE wildfires with NO compensation, we are trying to replace it with something BETTER, like are you actually going to tell me that something as good as @cropo idea, for something that randomly sets something on fire and you place a flingo and your done for every summer after, you can even reuse the same thermal as winter and just use a fridge to cool it down, or just repair it .like i would get it if you just deleted it and gave nothing in return. For example, Disease, it was a bad feature, with no counterplay, but when they removed it they added the new farm system. the reason i am comparing disease and wildfires are because they are both features that are natural and destroy things with hard counter play (with disease no counterplay) while wildfires HAVE counterplay but are just annoying. Actually, the whole SUMMER SEASON ( i should make a topic about that) needs to be "re-invented." if they replace wildfires with something and re-WORK summer. then how would you be upset?  as we alluniversally know that summer is the worse season. Sorry about the capitals I'm feeling @goatt pain right now.

I don't think the new farm system came to "replace" the disease mechanic, it was just something new that was added, and if it replaced anything, it was the old farms . This was actually something that encouraged the players to not shovel all the berry bushes on the map and replant them in one single spot, leaving grasslands or pig villages empty. I don't think anyone likes traveling to a biome only to find that the resources they wanted from that biome have been confiscated by another player. And if everything has been moved to one single place, then there is simply nothing that drives us to leave that place, except our good will. If instead of completely removing the mechanism, they had added a way to cure the disease, one solution to preventing the disease would have been to not move more berry bushes than you can afford to cure, for example.

Making the things you pick from the ground burn your hands is no substitute for the wildfires. It's an idea, it's just not something that would "replace" the wildfires. There are ways to prevent your base from burning. An example might be putting some space between the group of buildings so the fire doesn't spread to your whole base.

10 hours ago, goatt said:

Yeah, the original intention was to improve wildfire's punishment so that it's more fair. It wasn't to be removed. The "sapling and trees burnt at portal" scenarios are unaffected by this suggestion, if you imagine how it happens. The problem it tried to solve is imagine some internet stranger walked by your no-player base, and accidentally smoldered something which light your entire base up because you were offline. So I don't think we disagree here. I provided 3 different suggestions to see people's reaction. But what I got was not a quantitative disagreement, but a qualitative disagreement, I think, largely due to misunderstanding the post, or maybe I didn't clarify it enough.

The idea that wildfires can happen anywhere on the map and not just near a player is one way to not get angry at other players' mistakes (because you couldn't control where they happened by simply moving you somewhere else). If it were possible to make the game so, flingomatics should be cheaper to fuel (because they would have to be on all the time). So that would lead to less buildings being lost to the wildfires because you forgot to power them up in time.

If you want to always see them on your screen when the wildfires start, then it would have to be within a very short radius: the things that are visible on your screen are different depending on your map rotation (and the things on the very bottom are not far from your character, especially if you compare with the top corners). But obvious warnings, like playing special musics, would not hurt.

I'm not against improvements on wildfires, since I would like improvements on the fire mechanic in general (Willow, fire staff, ...). But I don't want the wildfires to be removed or become insignificant. What solutions do you have that would prevent wildfires to burn your base while you are not there?

[Nnumber3]

5 minutes ago, Jandri said:

I don't think the new farm system came to "replace" the disease mechanic, it was just something new that was added, and if it replaced anything, it was the old farms . This was actually something that encouraged the players to not shovel all the berry bushes on the map and replant them in one single spot, leaving grasslands or pig villages empty. I don't think anyone likes traveling to a biome only to find that the resources they wanted from that biome have been confiscated by another player. And if everything has been moved to one single place, then there is simply nothing that drives us to leave that place, except our good will. If instead of completely removing the mechanism, they had added a way to cure the disease, one solution to preventing the disease would have been to not move more berry bushes than you can afford to cure, for example.

Making the things you pick from the ground burn your hands is no substitute for the wildfires. It's an idea, it's just not something that would "replace" the wildfires. There are ways to prevent your base from burning. An example might be putting some space between the group of buildings so the fire doesn't spread to your whole base.

The idea that wildfires can happen anywhere on the map and not just near a player is one way to not get angry at other players' mistakes (because you couldn't control where they happened by simply moving you somewhere else). If it were possible to make the game so, flingomatics should be cheaper to fuel (because they would have to be on all the time). So that would lead to less buildings being lost to the wildfires because you forgot to power them up in time.

If you want to always see them on your screen when the wildfires start, then it would have to be within a very short radius: the things that are visible on your screen are different depending on your map rotation (and the things on the very bottom are not far from your character, especially if you compare with the top corners). But obvious warnings, like playing special musics, would not hurt.

I'm not against improvements on wildfires, since I would like improvements on the fire mechanic in general (Willow, fire staff, ...). But I don't want the wildfires to be removed or become insignificant. What solutions do you have that would prevent wildfires to burn your base while you are not there?

You are right, the new farm mechanic did not come to replace disease, it was more of a byproduct of the new farming system, and DUH, it replaced the old farms. i was more annoyed and kinder of generalized it and did not mention the old farms then. How in the world did in not encourage digging of berry bush's though, the old farms ENCOURGED it as it gave much less food, and a more mid game thing as they were very expensive, plus the more berry bushes, and you catch it, you won't have as much lost berrys if you just took 10 bushes, 9 berries instead of 10 is bigger than 39 instead of 40. Berry bushes were better in every way then old farms. I think the whole taking things from biomes is a multiplayer thing, as people will rob pig villages and environment blind, destroy the homes, like are you suggesting we should make them undiggable and undestroyable? yes, they could have added a cure, but the new farming system, not saying that it was made to just to  kick disease out, it just did not fit into the new system, and Kei just removed it instead of forcing it in. yes the whole burn thing is an idea, like won't like, save summer or anything, but this is a idea's thread, and i was saying the idea is good, and makes summer more unique. now, when some guy accidentally burns the base down from that, i don't get mad at him, i get mad at the game. yes, if it appears on screen and it has the special music in stuff, then its not a threat at all, but if not its unfair, kinda of a pickle. better mechanics of fire would be great, and yeah, removing wildfires would make summer boring, that's why we giving ideas. we don't actually think any of our ideas will make it in the game, at least i do, as there's 100's of suggestions a day. there's not much of a solution to prevent wildfires at base when your not there apart from ice flingos, which can run out of fuel. perhaps a method like killing antlion stops wildfires for several days, or appeasing it gave wildfire immunity a little bit each time. i just think summer needs a whole rework as its the black sheep of the family, does not mean wildfires will be gone after this imaginary rework, just hopefully better.

[goatt]

12 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I wish klei would give us stats on how many people actually disable wildfires, it seems like bias more on your side and @goatt seems to be speaking on the changes that majority of experienced players would prefer.

That would be very helpful. Even though I feel it doesn't defeat the point that fire from smoldering should be able to potentially destroy everything (small mistake causing big loss in tradeoff).

Not that it matters, but I wanna to clarify, I have never played in a server with wildfire off. I'm endorsing the other side simply because I suddenly realize that wildfire smoldering is too harsh. When I built semi-megabase in public servers, the wildfire setting was still on. (That's why I have a lot of experience with it and I'm a pro in handling it as mentioned in previous comments, which is sorta proof of what I said)

5 hours ago, Jandri said:

I'm not against improvements on wildfires, since I would like improvements on the fire mechanic in general (Willow, fire staff, ...). But I don't want the wildfires to be removed or become insignificant.

Just curious. What if each smoldering wildfire is limited to destroy 100-ish items? Do you think that's too insignificant?

On 8/4/2023 at 5:44 PM, goatt said:

Should you take the consequences for someone's mistakes when sharing a base is inevitable in multiplayers.  

I want to respond to my own comment earlier. I think that question was a bit off.

A better question would be: how severe a consequence should a player take for someone else's mistakes when sharing base is inevitable in multiplayers.

(I'm not good at writing. Often I didn't express myself very clearly. The question shouldn't be a yes-or-no, because the post was trying to decrease the consequence, not to remove it.)

 

@Mysterious box Sorry, I give up. Your arguments didn't make sense. And your assumptions about me were also wrong. I also feel you talked past me again.

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, goatt said:

@Mysterious box Sorry, I give up. Your arguments didn't make sense. And your assumptions about me were also wrong. I also feel you talked past me again.

Honestly I feel the same about how your handling this and how points aren't being addressed so I think we should talking to each other on this topic we both clearly have things to say on the topic but we should just ignore each other on the topic and respect we both have differing opinions.

[goatt]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

how points aren't being addressed

I addressed all your points, I believe. Link one that I didn't address. (I don't have more things to add, since I don't think I was properly responded. I'm not blaming you.)

The reason I responded to some comments because I think I need to add something for other people to view, not specifically for the original commenter. (But communicating with the original commenter is inevitable.)

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

I addressed all your points, I believe. Link one that I didn't address. (I don't have more things to add, since I don't think I was properly responded. I'm not blaming you.)

The reason I responded to some comments because I think I need to add something for other people to view, not specifically for the original commenter. (But communicating with the original commenter is inevitable.)

I've addressed your points just not in a way that satisfied you or that you accept and I'm of the same opinion on that front I have addressed each concern you brought up. You just decided not to accept it and color it with your own interpretation perhaps I have as well but I feel like there's nothing to be gained by continuing the conversation honestly. It's not that I'm upset or anything like that it just feels like our entire conversation is just running in circles.

[goatt]

48 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I've addressed your points just not in a way that satisfied you

This is inaccurate. You talked past me. If you did respond properly, I would've responded with "I disagree", instead of "I don't know how to respond". Because I couldn't disagree with you, because it missed the point.

I don't twist other people's words. I tend to take people's words literally, which is a feature of autism. If I misunderstand people or think I probably have misunderstood people, I'll just ask, "what did you mean?" or "did I rephrase it correctly". And if I realize my mistake when people point it out, I'll simply say, sorry, my bad, as I have done many times in this forum. All those measures are to make sure that I understand people correctly.

In other words, I don't think I've done anything wrong in communicating with clarity. I believe mostly, you are responsible for it. I even laid out line by line how you missed the point. So I think I've done enough. I know I can't improve the situation any further. That's why I give up.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

This is inaccurate. You talked past me. If you did respond properly, I would've responded with "I disagree", instead of "I don't know how to respond". Because I couldn't disagree with you, because it missed the point.

You refusing to acknowledge the other party's argument and counterpoints is not them talking past you. You talked about fairness I answered you didn't accept it, you talked about game design I answered you didn't accept it and pretended to be impartial. You did not like the answers you got and decided they were illogical based on your own perspective of how you interact with the game.

1 hour ago, goatt said:

I don't twist other people's words. I tend to take people's words literally, which is a feature of autism. If I misunderstand people or think I probably have misunderstood people, I'll just ask, "what did you mean?" or "did I rephrase it correctly". And if I realize my mistake when people point it out, I'll simply say, sorry, my bad, as I have done many times in this forum. All those measures are to make sure that I understand people correctly.

 

22 hours ago, goatt said:

But your main arguments are more like, "but some people really enjoyed it" or "current state of (wild)fire is fine to me", so there is the difference.

This right here is called misrepresenting someone or just being too stubborn to consider other's points. If this is a valid assessment of my argument then one could say a valid one of your is I build megabases and I don't like when base burns down due to me not taking preventive measures.

As I've said multiple times but you keep glossing over with the equivalent of "ah but that doesn't matter" we have multiple things that you can do in fact make wildfires more fair you just choose to ignore some of the more key things because it doesn't suite your playstyle preference.

1. You can spread your builds out if the entire base is burning down from one fire then that's because you built it as a fire hazard
2. Teach new players who join fire safety
3. Make a private server with people you trust
4. Make a copy of the server when you leave incase things go south
5. disable them in the settings rollback

You keep trying to say wildfires are a flaw from a game design perspective but your only using your standards of game design for this standard while pretending to be impartial which is annoying. Your standard is based on the idea that don't starve together's survival mechanics shouldn't threaten creative builds in a meaningful way despite that being flawed from a survival game design perspective. In fact the very idea that survival mechanics shouldn't have these large impacts in a world where people who played previous aren't online is flawed from a multiplayer perspective it's like playing a multiplayer online game and not being able to advance the story until all previous players rejoin the session.