skill tree idea Edited 08-02-2024 Webber skill tree suggestions also Klei I don’t care about credit add or take inspiration from any of my suggestions as you please all I ask is you take them into consideration+Fan ideas welcome(great place to use to make everyone happy)

[Creatingabe1125]

34 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

@Dr.Webber I think the Wormwood example was to say:

If Klei would adapt your idea to give Webber the plant skill you thought of, it would stray SO MUCH from Webbers pre-skilltree gameplay, that it would be equal to 'giving a reward to someone who just showed up' so it's extremly unlikely Klei would even /consider/ it, and would rather have given the skill to Wormwood in the first place. In other words: It's unlikely it will be implented for ANY character by now.

(sorry if I missinterpreted it @Creatingabe1125, feel free to correct me if this wasn't what you meant)

I think you explained it better than I could have.

[Creatingabe1125]

8 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

It really wouldn’t though

Gameplay wise they would benefit more from it and lore wise how would they implement auto till as if you think about it auto till is just the same as tilling but for mobs instead.

48 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

A lot of things that should have been added to the base character have been skills before. Also, you realize tools to help build mechanical objects are different from farm tools, right

I still think if the snapping tilling for players becomes a thing in the base game it should be made for all not just a skill for 1 character. Also Winona makes mechanical stuff to help with other things so she could make her own version of the gardener hat or a tool to auto or snap till.

56 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

No, you didn’t

What’s by the way who would specializes in plants not farming in particular alive and stuff might be farming related but that’s because those farming related things are plant related also what does Walter and WX exploring half of do with auto tilling

I said that I think Klei prioritizes gameplay first over lore when making the game and I explained why it’s unfair to others and NPCMaxwell explained even better. I maybe should had said what I was referring to when I said I already explained.

Don’t exactly understand the first part so I am going to answer the second part. It was meant to be an example similar to Webber getting auto till because he knows garden tools, like wx is a robot and can make a circuit to advance vision or since Walter is an explorer he would make an item to see further like the horizon expandenator.

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

I could make it so you so he can only transplant out within within the cave so I was thinking what would allow him to transplant it as maybe from his farm background he could have known how to properly separate and transport, a similar type of plant from the normal world in order to not damage anything that would cause it to not be able to grow properly that he could apply to separating and transporting lightbulbs in the constant

Your entering theory territory if your assuming Webber knows advanced plant techniques unless you have good proof that he knows advanced farming. And still seems a bit random and not much sense for Webber to transplant light bulbs.

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

What is that supposed to mean 

also I’m not the one keeping wormwood from having the plant power and wormwood already has plant related skills all it is, is a different plant related skill because of Webber’s connection to farming

NPCMaxwell explained it better already.

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

I thought we weren’t going with the backpack route

No but the rope would tie it all into a shape and let you close it though idk how your thinking it’s going to look like.

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

Spiders as a whole would have chopping, hammering, and mining but spiders are a lot more varied so it would make sense that each would special spider would have special abilities also this skill is lock behind way more then the merm abilities

What is it locked behind? And what I said about the farm skills and how NPCMaxwell explained it kind of applies here too but my main problem is how advanced they are compared to other followers.

[Dr.Webber]

2 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

What is it locked behind? And what I said about the farm skills and how NPCMaxwell explained it kind of applies here too but my main problem is how advanced they are compared to other followers.

they really aren’t it just seems that way because I wrote out what each type would get its just 2 small things for each type and they’re lock behind befriending  all the spider types

2 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Gameplay wise they would benefit more from it and lore wise how would they implement auto till as if you think about it auto till is just the same as tilling but for mobs instead.

Ok I’ll remove it 

 

2 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Your entering theory territory if your assuming Webber knows advanced plant techniques unless you have good proof that he knows advanced farming. And still seems a bit random and not much sense for Webber to transplant light bulbs.

4 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

Ok I remove it 

I have the beginning of an idea coming up

Oh, by the way I was thinking and do you think I should make Webber’s  nomadic nest works similarly to the burrowing horn

Edited September 17, 2024 by Dr.Webber

[Creatingabe1125]

6 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

I have the beginning of an idea coming up

And what’s that?

7 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

they really aren’t it just seems that way because I wrote out what each type would get its just 2 small things for each type and they’re lock behind befriending  all the spider types

Catching fish, spiders using spiders as shields, cave exploration, protecting items/mobs, aoe damage, and a few other things.

Idea: each spider type gets 1 small buff/perk that doesn’t add anything too new but does help improve them. So like warriors get a bit more damage, nurses give over time healing, cave spiders get a more a bit more effective shield and can enter/leave their shells a bit quicker, spitters get a little bit of a shorter cooldown and the projectiles go faster to hit a bit faster targets, depth dwellers get a bit more leap range and leap faster if their target is a bit fast, shattered spiders can sometimes get thorn damage and deal a few more spikes, and the sea striders move a bit faster in the ocean and if this isn’t a feature already make them come back to boats when a webby whistle is blown.

I don’t think they should be that advanced but after thinking about it they could each use a small buff to their abilities. Also I am thinking of a few ideas for spiders but I still need to think about them a bit more before saying.

[Dr.Webber]

What if I do something that goes weeds utility like:

Spiny bindweeds and fire nettles could be used as traps Or if you want to put each weed in their own category, fire nettles could be used to ward off things

Forget me, lots could be used to craft something to  de-Agro mobs canonically giving them amnesia

I’m not quite sure what I want till weeds do but based off of what they do now maybe something in the resource gathering thing like it bringing minerals up from the surface from the ground to be collected like you would get rid of debris

 

[Creatingabe1125]

31 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

Oh, by the way I was thinking and do you think I should make Webber’s  nomadic nest works similarly to the burrowing horn

What is the nomadic nest again because I thought that was a name idea for the egg sack? Also probably no as can’t the item itself store it?

[Dr.Webber]

1 minute ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

And what’s that?

What if I do something that goes weeds utility like:

Spiny bindweeds and fire nettles could be used as traps Or if you want to put each weed in their own category, fire nettles could be used to ward off things

Forget me, lots could be used to craft something to  de-Agro mobs canonically giving them amnesia

I’m not quite sure what I want till weeds do but based off of what they do now maybe something in the resource gathering thing like it bringing minerals up from the surface from the ground to be collected like you would get rid of debris

7 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Idea: each spider type gets 1 small buff/perk that doesn’t add anything too new but does help improve them. So like warriors get a bit more damage, nurses give over time healing, cave spiders get a more a bit more effective shield and can enter/leave their shells a bit quicker, spitters get a little bit of a shorter cooldown and the projectiles go faster to hit a bit faster targets, depth dwellers get a bit more leap range and leap faster if their target is a bit fast, shattered spiders can sometimes get thorn damage and deal a few more spikes, and the sea striders move a bit faster in the ocean and if this isn’t a feature already make them come back to boats when a webby whistle is blown.

That’s boring trust me it might things aren’t that much just think about them. Spider by spider rolling thinking about them all together. The things I’m adding aren’t that big

6 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

What is the nomadic nest again because I thought that was a name idea for the egg sack? Also probably no as can’t the item itself store it?

That is the new name since I couldn’t come up with anything better

[Creatingabe1125]

8 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

What if I do something that goes weeds utility like:

Spiny bindweeds and fire nettles could be used as traps Or if you want to put each weed in their own category, fire nettles could be used to ward off things

Forget me, lots could be used to craft something to  de-Agro mobs canonically giving them amnesia

I’m not quite sure what I want till weeds do but based off of what they do now maybe something in the resource gathering thing like it bringing minerals up from the surface from the ground to be collected like you would get rid of debris

I don’t like it much because it’s not really related to Webber, that sounds more like wormwood than Webber or his farming past which I assume isn’t a lot as he probably only saw and did a few thing at most, and it’s a bit random. Also because it’s a bit too advanced.

8 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

That’s boring trust me it might things aren’t that much just think about them. Spider by spider rolling thinking about them all together. The things I’m adding aren’t that big

 Boring on paper, effective in battle.

I don’t agree with the advanced skills you suggested as in total they are op and even a few perks alone are more op than you think.

The annoying part of fishing is skipped with just a few spiders, you also get plenty of kind of free fish food just from a few spiders. Multiple sources of lunar AOE damage. I didn’t even realize some of them had second abilities, I don’t know how you will convince me those aren’t op.

also I don’t what you mean when you say “Spider by spider rolling thinking about them all together.”

8 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

That is the new name since I couldn’t come up with anything better

Oh okay. What about the itsy bitsy nest?

Also what if cave, shattered, and spitter spiders mine a bit more efficiently, sea striders could chop a bit more effectively, nurses and normal could be better at tilling, depth dwellers could dig but a little bit slower then normal, and spider warriors could smash a bit more efficiently as small secret bonuses.

Edited September 17, 2024 by Creatingabe1125

[Creatingabe1125]

1 hour ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Also what if cave, shattered, and spitter spiders mine a bit more efficiently, sea striders could chop a bit more effectively, nurses and normal could be better at tilling, depth dwellers could dig but a little bit slower then normal, and spider warriors could smash a bit more efficiently as small secret bonuses.

Actually what if the spiders I listed here are only able to do 1 type of work but is effective at so the rocky spiders can mine efficiently but only mine. The normal spiders would be able to chop or maybe mine but less efficient. I say maybe on the mining part because how is a normal spider going to break rock?

[Dr.Webber]

6 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

I don’t agree with the advanced skills you suggested as in total they are op and even a few perks alone are more op than you think.

They’re not advanced

 

6 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

also I don’t what you mean when you say “Spider by spider rolling thinking about them all together

It means think about single spider type so you can see how non-advanced the skill really is

 

6 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Oh okay. What about the itsy bitsy nest?

Owwww I really like that?

6 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Also what if cave, shattered, and spitter spiders mine a bit more efficiently, sea striders could chop a bit more effectively, nurses and normal could be better at tilling, depth dwellers could dig but a little bit slower then normal, and spider warriors could smash a bit more efficiently as small secret bonuses.

I’ll consider it

 

4 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Actually what if the spiders I listed here are only able to do 1 type of work but is effective at so the rocky spiders can mine efficiently but only mine. The normal spiders would be able to chop or maybe mine but less efficient. I say maybe on the mining part because how is a normal spider going to break rock

I will consider it

[Creatingabe1125]

2 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

They’re not advanced

Advanced compared to other follower abilities, and if not advanced then slightly advanced at least.

2 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

Owwww I really like that?

I am a bit confused but I am assuming you like it.

2 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

It means think about single spider type so you can see how non-advanced the skill really is

Even if you look at them separately they are still more advanced than tools or bonus stats and a simple ability. Some like rowing I could see and maybe catching fish but sea striders grabbing fish for you kind of ruins the balance of fishing. But making healed spiders stronger, map exploration, spider shields for other spiders, AOE damage from many spiders, and a few more are a bit op compared to other followers and even if you didn’t compare them to followers they are still a bit op. I could see sea striders being able to help row though that might be annoying in some fights, but catching fish straight from the ocean is unbalanced itself and the other skills are a bit too unique with some being op.

[NPCMaxwell]

I love the rowing-help idea! (I seriously hate rowing in DST so I see how a player who fails at the DST ocean as much as I do would be happy to play Webber with a useful helping with sailing squat)

[Creatingabe1125]

4 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

I love the rowing-help idea! (I seriously hate rowing in DST so I see how a player who fails at the DST ocean as much as I do would be happy to play Webber with a useful helping with sailing squat)

Personally I like rowing but that just me. But I would probably use sails if I am going through the ocean to get to somewhere else a bit far or bootlegs.

[NPCMaxwell]

6 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Personally I like rowing but that just me. But I would probably use sails if I am going through the ocean to get to somewhere else a bit far or bootlegs.

I am just too spoiled by SW boats being easy mode lol xD

[Creatingabe1125]

52 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

I am just too spoiled by SW boats being easy mode lol xD

Never really played solo DS much though I still have it, but from what I’ve seen about SW I can see why.

Edited September 17, 2024 by Creatingabe1125

[Dr.Webber]

1 hour ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Advanced compared to other follower abilities, and if not advanced then slightly advanced at least.

Ok using that logic Wurt’s tree made her follow is more advanced than any other follower. Why can’t Weber do the same to her followers?

 

1 hour ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Even if you look at them separately they are still more advanced than tools or bonus stats and a simple ability. Some like rowing I could see and maybe catching fish but sea striders grabbing fish for you kind of ruins the balance of fishing. But making healed spiders stronger, map exploration, spider shields for other spiders, AOE damage from many spiders, and a few more are a bit op compared to other followers and even if you didn’t compare them to followers they are still a bit op. I could see sea striders being able to help row though that might be annoying in some fights, but catching fish straight from the ocean is unbalanced itself and the other skills are a bit too unique with some being op.

What if I made it one ability each

[Creatingabe1125]

36 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

Ok using that logic Wurt’s tree made her follow is more advanced than any other follower. Why can’t Weber do the same to her followers?

 

First intotal its 3 special abilities with one of them just being solely a stat increase aka marble suit. And the dodge ability you need to go to the ruins and you’re comparing 3 abilities to like 14 with some being a bit op. Also I am not against a bit advanced perks that are straight forward perks like dodging but when I say your spider perks are advanced I mean it’s not just a straight forward perk/buff but instead a new ability that works a bit less straight forward and while some are straight forward most of them are a bit unbalanced/op like free easy fishing or AOE damage. And just to be clear when I say straight forward I mean simple or just 1 perk without any other thing connected like if your going to make cave spiders attack with their shields on (which I still find a little bit op) just make them do that and don’t make it so like the block attacks or provide shields to other spiders (as an example).

36 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

What if I made it one ability each

What would they be? And please try to make them a bit more straight forward or more simple as I have tried my best to explain. Also tried to make them balanced/not as op.

Edited September 17, 2024 by Creatingabe1125

[Dr.Webber]

33 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

First intotal its 3 special abilities with one of them just being solely a stat increase aka marble suit. And the dodge ability you need to go to the ruins and you’re comparing 3 abilities to like 14 with some being a bit op. Also I am not against a bit advanced perks that are straight forward perks like dodging but when I say your spider perks are advanced I mean it’s not just a straight forward perk/buff but instead a new ability that works a bit less straight forward and while some are straight forward most of them are a bit unbalanced/op like free easy fishing or AOE damage. And just to be clear when I say straight forward I mean simple or just 1 perk without any other thing connected like if your going to make cave spiders attack with their shields on (which I still find a little bit op) just make them do that and don’t make it so like the block attacks or provide shields to other spiders (as an example).

What would they be? And please try to make them a bit more straight forward or more simple as I have tried my best to explain. Also tried to make them balanced/not as op.

• spider pacific abilities: 
  Warrior:can Guard your stuff+players/mobs from those who would steal it(more effective the more you have)                                Nurse:healed spiders will be stronger (alongside that  all drops to be preserved upon death) (more effective the more you have)                                 Shattered: can see and attack shadow creatures at certain sanity levels(more effective the more you have)                                  Strider:when on boat the will push it in the directions your steering(more effective the more you have).                                 Cave: will gather in front of befriended spitter Spiders acting as a ballistic shield(more effective the more you have)                                Spitter:will gather behind  befriended cave Spiders using them as a ballistic shield(more effective the more you have)                                                                               Dweller: they will periodically dig down as a group and do a sneak attack on enemies (more effective the more you have)  

for the most part got rid of one of the abilities of each, but you’ll find that some have changed

still going back-and-forth on whether or not once strengthened spiders die, if they should drop all their loot or not

Also, by the way, what was the decision on how much the sleeping skills should increase Webber’s Stats by when sleeping in dens

[Creatingabe1125]

3 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

 

• spider pacific abilities: 
  Warrior:can Guard your stuff+players/mobs from those who would steal it(more effective the more you have)                                Nurse:healed spiders will be stronger (alongside that  all drops to be preserved upon death) (more effective the more you have)                                 Shattered: can see and attack shadow creatures at certain sanity levels(more effective the more you have)                                  Strider:when on boat the will push it in the directions your steering(more effective the more you have).                                 Cave: will gather in front of befriended spitter Spiders acting as a ballistic shield(more effective the more you have)                                Spitter:will gather behind  befriended cave Spiders using them as a ballistic shield(more effective the more you have)                                                                               Dweller: they will periodically dig down as a group and do a sneak attack on enemies (more effective the more you have)  

for the most part got rid of one of the abilities of each, but you’ll find that some have changed

still going back-and-forth on whether or not once strengthened spiders die, if they should drop all their loot or not

Also, by the way, what was the decision on how much the sleeping skills should increase Webber’s Stats by when sleeping in dens

What do you mean by loot? As in what type of loot. I suggested 2 health per second as in one segment of a day or 30 seconds you would have recovered 60 health assuming there’s no lag and probably something like 2.5 or 3 sanity per second.

The only skill I am somewhat okay with is the strider helping you move the boat. I can give reasons why I don’t like the others which you will probably want so I will list them.

Also when I say simple if you can describe the perk in a simple way and it works like that without having to try and make it fit like merms get the ability to dodge or some spiders get the ability to leap or somewhat like that then I will most likely consider it simple/straight forward.

warrior: not really related with Webber or spider warriors without making a stretched reason like because they can protect a nest/hive they can protect your items/friends as body guards. and while it is somewhat straight forward/simple, I still think it’s a bit of a random ability for Webber’s spider warrior to have. Though if it did make more sense and felt less like a random perk for the spider warrior I would probably agree with it.

Nurse: I don’t exactly know what you mean by making them stronger once healed so I can’t really make a good reason to or to not have this as a perk but I think just improved healing would be a better balanced buff to the nurse spider.

Shattered: I would have originally said I disagree for the simple reason that most other followers don’t and you face your nightmares on your own, but….. I still do but for a slightly different reason. I know there are some creatures that can attack nightmare creatures including Bernie but there is probably a gameplay reason why followers can’t most likely cause nightmares would mean nothing with an army of followers and that will probably still apply with aligned followers with Bernie being an exception as that is Bernie’s specialty, only 1 Bernie attacks at a time, and willow’s lore.

cave + spitters: not simple/straight forward, cave spider’s perk now only works with spitters, and being able to attack ranged with little to no threat from sources of damage with shields. That sounds op and not like the other abilities.

Depth dwellers: It is somewhat simple/straight forward but it sounds like how depth worms work. Assuming the cooldown, how it works exactly, and making sure it’s balanced, the only problem I have is why the depth dweller would dig as it climbs. personally I don’t like the idea of those spiders digging but also can’t they already leap toward the target as kind of like a surprise attack?

 

Also I think if it was just 1 or 2 of these it would be fair but multiple unique perks for each spiders seems like a lot for spiders which is kind of unbalanced and a little bit unfair to other followers.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Creatingabe1125

[Dr.Webber]

3 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Also I think if it was just 1 or 2 of these it would be fair but multiple unique perks for each spiders seems like a lot for spiders which is kind of unbalanced and a little bit unfair to other followers.

 what if I make it so multiple spider types for under  have a certain ability and it’s broken up into a couple  groups with each group of irrespective ability

3 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

What do you mean by loot?

You know how they have a chance of dropping monster meat, silk, or spider glands well if I keep it in the ability then the strengthened spiders would drop all of them

 

3 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

warrior: not really related with Webber or spider warriors without making a stretched reason like because they can protect a nest/hive they can protect your items/friends as body guards. and while it is somewhat straight forward/simple, I still think it’s a bit of a random ability for Webber’s spider warrior to have. Though if it did make more sense and felt less like a random perk for the spider warrior I would probably agree with it

The reason because their switcher doodle is made with pigskin and spider Warriors fall under the same guard role as Pig guards, merm guards, royal rabbit enforcers, or even Crab guards so I gave them all ability similar to pig guards

 

3 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Nurse: I don’t exactly know what you mean by making them stronger once healed so I can’t really make a good reason to or to not have this as a perk but I think just improved healing would be a better balanced buff to the nurse spider.

So I was thinking either breaking them do more damage or give them more max health

 

3 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Shattered: I would have originally said I disagree for the simple reason that most other followers don’t and you face your nightmares on your own, but….. I still do but for a slightly different reason. I know there are some creatures that can attack nightmare creatures including Bernie but there is probably a gameplay reason why followers can’t most likely cause nightmares would mean nothing with an army of followers and that will probably still apply with aligned followers with Bernie being an exception as that is Bernie’s specialty, only 1 Bernie attacks at a time, and willow’s lore.

 

What if I make it so only one spider I can attack at a time

 

3 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

cave + spitters: not simple/straight forward, cave spider’s perk now only works with spitters, and being able to attack ranged with little to no threat from sources of damage with shields. That sounds op and not like the other abilities.

What if I make it so every once in a while cave spiders try to block an attack from hitting another spider

what if I might get so they try to keep their distance, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that an enemy can’t catch up with them and hit them

3 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Depth dwellers: It is somewhat simple/straight forward but it sounds like how depth worms work. Assuming the cooldown, how it works exactly, and making sure it’s balanced, the only problem I have is why the depth dweller would dig as it climbs. personally I don’t like the idea of those spiders digging but also can’t they already leap toward the target as kind of like a surprise attack?

You probably right about this one what I was thinking was, I was going to make the depth roller is ability similar to how Royal rabbit enforcers dig up words to spawn sense dangling dwellers are similar to spider Warriors and have a bunny puff in there or switcher doodle recipe which comes from Bunnymen like pigskin comes from pegs and since the wrathful rabbit King is the king of the Bunnymen and the royal rabbit enforcers would sort of be his equivalent anyway since dangling depth drawers don’t have that guard roll. I should probably change it, but I don’t really know what to.

[Creatingabe1125]

4 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

what if I make it so multiple spider types for under  have a certain ability and it’s broken up into a couple  groups with each group of irrespective ability

So rock spiders get a rock ability, silk spiders get a silk ability, and sea striders/nurse spiders/maybe depth dweller get their own as they are a bit unique? Or the warrior and depth dweller in the same group?

I still think that it would be better for balancing and fairness reasons that the spiders just get a buff to their current abilities because 1: they don’t really have to be as balanced as much because they don’t have to worry about how a new ability will affect the world. 2: they still get a special perk that is still helpful in combat just more balanced. And 3: 

5 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

The reason because their switcher doodle is made with pigskin and spider Warriors fall under the same guard role as Pig guards, merm guards, royal rabbit enforcers, or even Crab guards so I gave them all ability similar to pig guards

Yeah but those guards protect their leader not just anything, even merm guards reject other players that aren’t players. The pig guards probably value what they protect or maybe the pig king told them to as they do have pig totems but I’m not sure. And the spider warrior’s goal is to defend the nest or leader not really to defend an item or a non spider friend. The spiders might become neutral to other players but they don’t really consider them one of them.

6 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

So I was thinking either breaking them do more damage or give them more max health

 

I don’t like the idea of making spiders stronger through healing because it would make more sense to strengthen them with their own skills and even then It’s still kind of op as they would have good stats and combined with all your current abilities for spiders which is kind of op on its own for spider followers.

6 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

What if I make it so only one spider I can attack at a time

 

Then it would only effect 1 shattered spider at a time and not only would a nightmare probably eat them as 1 would not be strong enough, it would probably be better if they couldn’t attack nightmares as Bernie’s specialty of fighting nightmares should stay as a specialty for Bernie for lore reasons and gameplay wise any other follower getting it would kind of be a bit unbalanced.

6 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

What if I make it so every once in a while cave spiders try to block an attack from hitting another spider

what if I might get so they try to keep their distance, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that an enemy can’t catch up with them and hit them

How would that work exactly as it’s not like the cave spiders are always going to follow spitters and giving them the ability to leap would make the warrior/depth spiders less unique. Also idk how the cave spiders would protect other spiders without it being a bit unbalanced and Webber could just make spider armor instead if you really wanted to offer protection to spiders but I feel like spiders are easy to get a gather an army so armor or any good form of protection kind of feels op.

I think they do the same damage with or without spitting so it would make much of a difference and they would probably do more damage if the didn’t move back to attack a target right next to them because of the cooldown.

If you wanted to use the spitting part for ranged enemies the enemy would probably move back which make that perk not do much and if you did non ranged enemies they would with come at you which would make them go to melee mode which I think does the same damage and if you really wanted to use range on melee enemy you could make a barrier to keep them in range mode.

7 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

You probably right about this one what I was thinking was, I was going to make the depth roller is ability similar to how Royal rabbit enforcers dig up words to spawn sense dangling dwellers are similar to spider Warriors and have a bunny puff in there or switcher doodle recipe which comes from Bunnymen like pigskin comes from pegs and since the wrathful rabbit King is the king of the Bunnymen and the royal rabbit enforcers would sort of be his equivalent anyway since dangling depth drawers don’t have that guard roll. I should probably change it, but I don’t really know what to.

I think maybe they can focus on leaping cause they live on the ceiling of the caves which is high and they already leap.

7 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

You know how they have a chance of dropping monster meat, silk, or spider glands well if I keep it in the ability then the strengthened spiders would drop all of them

 

Spider wars and the already high amount of abilities there are is telling me probably not. And I see no need to boost spider wars.

[Dr.Webber]

8 hours ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

So rock spiders get a rock ability, silk spiders get a silk ability, and sea striders/nurse spiders/maybe depth dweller get their own as they are a bit unique? Or the warrior and depth dweller in the same group?

I still think that it would be better for balancing and fairness reasons that the spiders just get a buff to their current abilities because 1: they don’t really have to be as balanced as much because they don’t have to worry about how a new ability will affect the world. 2: they still get a special perk that is still helpful in combat just more balanced. And 3: 

Yeah but those guards protect their leader not just anything, even merm guards reject other players that aren’t players. The pig guards probably value what they protect or maybe the pig king told them to as they do have pig totems but I’m not sure. And the spider warrior’s goal is to defend the nest or leader not really to defend an item or a non spider friend. The spiders might become neutral to other players but they don’t really consider them one of them.

I don’t like the idea of making spiders stronger through healing because it would make more sense to strengthen them with their own skills and even then It’s still kind of op as they would have good stats and combined with all your current abilities for spiders which is kind of op on its own for spider followers.

Then it would only effect 1 shattered spider at a time and not only would a nightmare probably eat them as 1 would not be strong enough, it would probably be better if they couldn’t attack nightmares as Bernie’s specialty of fighting nightmares should stay as a specialty for Bernie for lore reasons and gameplay wise any other follower getting it would kind of be a bit unbalanced.

How would that work exactly as it’s not like the cave spiders are always going to follow spitters and giving them the ability to leap would make the warrior/depth spiders less unique. Also idk how the cave spiders would protect other spiders without it being a bit unbalanced and Webber could just make spider armor instead if you really wanted to offer protection to spiders but I feel like spiders are easy to get a gather an army so armor or any good form of protection kind of feels op.

I think they do the same damage with or without spitting so it would make much of a difference and they would probably do more damage if the didn’t move back to attack a target right next to them because of the cooldown.

If you wanted to use the spitting part for ranged enemies the enemy would probably move back which make that perk not do much and if you did non ranged enemies they would with come at you which would make them go to melee mode which I think does the same damage and if you really wanted to use range on melee enemy you could make a barrier to keep them in range mode.

I think maybe they can focus on leaping cause they live on the ceiling of the caves which is high and they already leap.

Spider wars and the already high amount of abilities there are is telling me probably not. And I see no need to boost spider wars.

What about this:

Farming:

• normal:can “hoe”
• Strider:can water crops 

protection:

• Warrior:will patrol around any group of structures with a den within 
• Dweller: can crawl up on tall structures to see up coming danger 
   
•  

recourses:

• Shattered:2x chopping speed 
• Cave: 2x mining speed          

 

healing:   

 

• Spitter:can shoot allies to give them a booster shot(also spitters only use they’re ranged attack now)
• Nurse:over time healing

Edited September 18, 2024 by Dr.Webber

[Creatingabe1125]

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

What about this:

Farming:

• normal:can “hoe”
• Strider:can water crops 

protection:

• Warrior:will patrol around any group of structures with a den within 
• Dweller: can crawl up on tall structures to see up coming danger 
   
•  

recourses:

• Shattered:2x chopping speed 
• Cave: 2x mining speed          

 

healing:   

 

• Spitter:can shoot allies to give them a booster shot(also spitters only use they’re ranged attack now)
• Nurse:over time healing

Now that I think about it maybe spiders shouldn’t get working perks. And my reasoning for that is gameplay wise you can get a hoard of spiders more quickly and cheaply then a hoard of merms, pigs, or bunnymen, and giving them the ability to work would probably instantly turn him from a non gatherer character into a character that is a very powerful gather for cheap as even with being as efficient as Wes no or less a hoard of Wes is still going to gather a lot of resources and destroy a biome even if alone they would be less efficient than a merm. And adding a limit to spiders working would not make much sense and it would ethier still let them destroy biomes or make them bad. Also the only reasons I can think of for them not getting working abilities in the first place is ethier because they would break their fangs trying to break rock lore wise for the normal ones at least, didn’t think/forgot about giving them work abilities, or cause it’s op.

so make your base spider infested especially in multiplayer and also protecting other stuff that aren’t spiders or the hive unless I interpreted it wrong.

how would this work as you can hear any incoming waves of mobs already, and any hostile mob nearby you would probably notice unless your in the dark. Also why do both of these involve structures.

2x is a bit much and why chopping for shattered, the only connection I could think of is moon glass axe but that’s a bit of a stretch.

how would the boost shot thing work as they aren’t giving back lost max health and increasing max health through spiders doesn’t really seem right as it would make more sense through a craft or skill.

Not sure about watering and I feel like normal spiders wouldn’t get a special ability besides being normal.

[Dr.Webber]

15 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

because they would break their fangs trying to break rock lore wise

They can break rock walls why weren’t they able to break other rocks also by where other followers are is just as cheap and for merms  it might be slightly more due to the community feeder

 

19 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

so make your base spider infested especially in multiplayer and also protecting other stuff that aren’t spiders or the hive unless I interpreted it wrong.

 So basically, they protect any structures within the area around the den

 

22 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

how would this work as you can hear any incoming waves of mobs already, and any hostile mob nearby you would probably notice unless your in the dark. Also why do both of these involve structures

What else would they climb on besides trees also it would be more like they would alert you ahead of time so you have extra time to prepare keeping track of like ticks or like around the time that hound wave is coming before they bark to make themselves know like however, long before that like the depth drawer would let you know so you could prepare

 

26 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

2x is a bit much and why chopping for shattered, the only connection I could think of is moon glass axe but that’s a bit of a stretch.

I was thinking they would use their crystal attack on the trees

 

27 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

how would the boost shot thing work as they aren’t giving back lost max health and increasing max health through spiders doesn’t really seem right as it would make more sense through a craft or skill.

Who won you need a booster shot so shoot at you I don’t know. I was trying to connect them to healing since things would be unequal if I put them in any other area also needed to use a booster shot show they use that to connect it a bit of a stretch bite, but you get what I mean, what do you mean it would work better as a skill or craft what would that entail?

 

30 minutes ago, Creatingabe1125 said:

Not sure about watering and I feel like normal spiders wouldn’t get a special ability besides being normal.

Fine I’m tired. Could you try to give me some ideas for these that that are both not boring and whatever your try and get out of this also by the way you keep throwing around OP, as if it was a bad thing like I can’t like things can’t be game breaking and like unrealistic because that wouldn’t be nearly fair at all, but every once in a while, having an overpowered thing can be a good thing maybe consider that I hope I didn’t come across too snippy. I’m just really tired and feel defeated

[Creatingabe1125]

26 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

Fine I’m tired. Could you try to give me some ideas for these that that are both not boring and whatever your try and get out of this also by the way you keep throwing around OP, as if it was a bad thing like I can’t like things can’t be game breaking and like unrealistic because that wouldn’t be nearly fair at all, but every once in a while, having an overpowered thing can be a good thing maybe consider that I hope I didn’t come across too snippy. I’m just really tired and feel defeated

Sorry if I use op too much but I usually mean a bit unbalanced when I say bit op. If Klei were to do a followers update then some of the skills I would probably be more willing with some of the perks but until then I would rather keep perks somewhat even/fair between followers and the world.

My main problem with the abilities is balance/fairness or making sense/reasonable, if they are too unique with being a bit unbalanced then I might have a problem but if they are balanced, doesn’t make them feel more better or more unbalanced than other special followers, and makes sense both with their theme and reasonable then most likely I will agree.

If it helps understand how I think about balance/fairness here’s an example of how I think.

If merms with tools are the only followers that can smash, till, and dig which is the best type of work followers can do currently, and merms are more harder to get compared to spiders, it would be a bit unbalanced/unfair for spiders who are easier and cheaper to get more of getting better perks than merms who are a little bit more harder to gather a lot of and require tools to smash, till, and dig. And similar with combat related perks.

45 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

Who won you need a booster shot so shoot at you I don’t know. I was trying to connect them to healing since things would be unequal if I put them in any other area also needed to use a booster shot show they use that to connect it a bit of a stretch bite, but you get what I mean, what do you mean it would work better as a skill or craft what would that entail?

 

Like a 10% boost to max health as a skill instead but I am not sure about increasing the health as half of the spiders have like 300-400 health already. And the only thing I understand is that boost shots are similar to healing.

48 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

I was thinking they would use their crystal attack on the trees

Oh okay.

48 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

What else would they climb on besides trees also it would be more like they would alert you ahead of time so you have extra time to prepare keeping track of like ticks or like around the time that hound wave is coming before they bark to make themselves know like however, long before that like the depth drawer would let you know so you could prepare

Idk when the waves are decided to spawn in the code but I am going to assume for this that it’s decided early enough for the spiders to warn you. And what if there aren’t structures near by?

51 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

 So basically, they protect any structures within the area around the den

Which is in the web or bigger than the web? Also the only mob that attacks structures is like deerclops and the spiders would stand little chance without spider queens.

53 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

They can break rock walls why weren’t they able to break other rocks also by where other followers are is just as cheap and for merms  it might be slightly more due to the community feeder

It was an idea for why and pigs can also break walls but can’t mine rock, and we can punch rock walls too but can’t punch rocks.