Woodie Hardwood Helmet is too expensive

[MadMatt]

I can't think of any niche for this aside from scienceless challenge runs. I think the armor and durability, although bad, could be justified if it weren't for the egregious cost of logs. It costs 6 logs to make a 70% armor helmet with 210 durability... why wouldn't I just get 2 more logs and 6 grass to make a log suit that provides actually good armor and 50% more durability? If it had the same log requirement as the wooden walking stick, that being 3, it'd fill a much nicer niche armor: Super cheap helmet that can serve you well before you make an alchemy engine rather than a waste of space on the skill tree.

[Lardee]

TBH I think it's actually pretty good where it's at. 

If this craft was for any character other than Woodie, I might agree that the 6 logs is a little steep.  However, since 2 fully grown pine trees gives you literally all the ingredients for this, Woodie can make these incredibly quick.

It's also not really fair to compare this to a log suit not just because the suit requires science, but also because it takes up the body slot which means you can't equip your backpack and it requires 6 grass.  As Woodie in the early game, the 6 grass is a more valuable resource than 6 logs since he gathers grass just as quickly as anyone else and, considering this is a very early craft that is soon replaced by the football helmet, you're probably at the point in the game that you want to conserve your grass for other things. This is especially true if you're playing with others.

Finally, since this really is something that is there to give you basic protection for the first few days, you're probably going to see little to no combat so the 70% armor and 210 durability should be more than sufficient. 

[skile]

1 hour ago, Lardee said:

As Woodie in the early game, the 6 grass is a more valuable resource than 6 logs since he gathers grass just as quickly as anyone else

not if you put some points into quick picker

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

6 logs = expensive?

[landromat]

Only thing most expensive there is he have to spend 1 insight to get access to it. Just not worth it right now. I think walking stick and hat abilities should be merged together

[ZeRoboButler]

combining the log suit and the helmet is nice, for Woodie its a cheap way to make another armor last a bit longer when you put on both a body armor and the new carved hat.

just seems like a neat smidge of defense early on.

[MadMatt]

1 hour ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

6 logs = expensive?

When you consider the spammability potential is this hats only truly useful perk, yeah it's pretty expensive. Especially early on when logs are being sucked up for other uses like crazy, i'm not going to even entertain spending TWO boards on this hat.

Either the cost needs to be dramatically reduced and/or the helmet be made good enough to even consider making, it's a non-factor as is.

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, MadMatt said:

When you consider the spammability potential is this hats only truly useful perk, yeah it's pretty expensive. Especially early on when logs are being sucked up for other uses like crazy, i'm not going to even entertain spending TWO boards on this hat.

Either the cost needs to be dramatically reduced and/or the helmet be made good enough to even consider making, it's a non-factor as is.

You do realize log suits are 8 logs, right? You’re getting a cheaper log suit that also lets you wear a backpack.

[MadMatt]

30 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

You do realize log suits are 8 logs, right? You’re getting a cheaper log suit that also lets you wear a backpack.

Yes I quite literally point that out in my post. Also you can always just switch between a log suit and backpack, there are very few situations where you HAVE to always have your backpack equipped for combat. The helmet just doesn't stay relevant enough given it's strength and log cost when the log suit is perfectly usable, early on, and also better. Also don't have to use a skill point to make a log suit but that's a bit harder to discuss balance around.

[Cheggf]

It should be 90% resistance & 500 durability 'cause I can just rush ruins to get a thulecite crown on like day 4 anyways

[MadMatt]

15 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

It should be 90% resistance & 500 durability 'cause I can just rush ruins to get a thulecite crown on like day 4 anyways

Yeah and I can make a science machine day 1. 

[PetulantPansy]

9 hours ago, Lardee said:

considering this is a very early craft that is soon replaced by the football helmet,

The durability is a bit low but I'd be down to use this through the midgame, while using the moose for any heavy combat.

[Cheggf]

57 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

Yeah and I can make a science machine day 1. 

So we're in agreement that it should be 90% resistance & 500 durability 

[Shosuko]

70% defense rating is trash.  The game is not balanced for 70% armor to have any real value.  Sure its less then a raw attack, but you just get an 80% defense like log suit or fb helmet instead.  There is no reason to stoop so low as to use 70% armor.  Might as well try to make grass suit a thing lol

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, MadMatt said:

Yes I quite literally point that out in my post. Also you can always just switch between a log suit and backpack, there are very few situations where you HAVE to always have your backpack equipped for combat. The helmet just doesn't stay relevant enough given it's strength and log cost when the log suit is perfectly usable, early on, and also better. Also don't have to use a skill point to make a log suit but that's a bit harder to discuss balance around.

You're also losing an extra inventory slot to carry around a log suit instead of wearing a helmet. This makes a difference in the early game when I want to start clearing spiders/pigmen while also gathering resources before I have a base.

[MadMatt]

24 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

There is no reason to stoop so low as to use 70% armor.  Might as well try to make grass suit a thing lol

Honestly looking back this isn't a player piece of armor, it's follower armor. Most other hats are too expensive to make en mass for follower armies but this hat seems much better at it. Which is why it should be half cost so it's much more spammable and useful for that purpose.

[ButterStuffed]

It's pretty decent for extending the life of significantly better body armors for virtually no setup cost.

Night Armor(95%) Log Helmet (70%)

95 + 70 = 165 : 95/165 = .57~~

Assuming I did my math correctly, Night Armor would only take 57% of any durability damage when combined with a log helmet effectively increasing its durability by 43%. Bringing it up from 525 durability to 750.75 for what amounts to like 1 minute of work to collect the materials necessary for several log helmets.

[ZeRoboButler]

im on board for a boost in durability, dmg reduction... not so much since the helm works best with other armor. 

[BB Marioni]

i would say head slot is more valuable and should always be more expensive, just because backpacks are that much important

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

7 hours ago, MadMatt said:

Also don't have to use a skill point to make a log suit but that's a bit harder to discuss balance around.

Sure, this is fair, to discuss if it is worth a skill point. But to discuss if it is worth 6 logs is ludicrous. If you could cook a meal that gives you 210 hp out of 6 logs, would you not cook it? Like sure, there are better armor options, if your playstyle is purely tanking or better head slot items if you are 100%evading damage. But it is DEFINITELY worth 6 logs.

[ALCRD]

Only 6 logs?

That's super cheap for Woodie. And you can wear it alongside Log suit.

[Cheggf]

9 hours ago, Shosuko said:

70% defense rating is trash.  The game is not balanced for 70% armor to have any real value.  Sure its less then a raw attack, but you just get an 80% defense like log suit or fb helmet instead.  There is no reason to stoop so low as to use 70% armor.  Might as well try to make grass suit a thing lol

70% DR is only trash if you're trying to facetank T3 rook. With most enemies you are, at WORST, going to need to use 1 minor healing item (e.g. bluecap or salve) per attack (compared to 80% needing 0.75 minor healing items per attack, saving only 1 healing item per 4 attacks), and that's if it's a 75 damage attack which very few non-boss enemies have. This helmet is perfect for ruins rushing, he can easily use Lucy and/or a shovel to amass a stack of bluecaps that will spoil before he uses them all, then this basically free helmet keeps him safe until he makes a thulecite one. This hat is ridiculously strong and amazing at what it's for. But what it's for isn't for helping people who are on day 10,000, so just like every other part of Woodie before this beta people don't like it.

It offers slightly more effective durability per log as the log suit while not requiring any of the much-more-valuable grass and going in the head slot. It's great.

7 hours ago, BB Marioni said:

i would say head slot is more valuable and should always be more expensive, just because backpacks are that much important

Every single helmet with an equivalent body armor is cheaper. Football helmets' whole thing is how cheap it is, being the cheapest armor in the game. 

[BB Marioni]

8 hours ago, Cheggf said:

 

Every single helmet with an equivalent body armor is cheaper. Football helmets' whole thing is how cheap it is, being the cheapest armor in the game. 

eehhh? i would highly disagree. It's waaay easier to chop logs and craft a logsuit even on like the second day in a world compared to feeding monster meats/ waiting for full moon for 1 pig skin, plus giiven how limited pig houses are, specially if you are in a server with 6 players. I always counted football helmet as a luxury and would most of the time save it as long as I can whenever I have one coz of how expensive they are. Heck, brightshade helms are even waaaaayy easier to mass produce. 

[skile]

3 minutes ago, BB Marioni said:

eehhh? i would highly disagree. It's waaay easier to chop logs and craft a logsuit even on like the second day in a world compared to feeding monster meats/ waiting for full moon for 1 pig skin, plus giiven how limited pig houses are, specially if you are in a server with 6 players. I always counted football helmet as a luxury and would most of the time save it as long as I can whenever I have one coz of how expensive they are. Heck, brightshade helms are even waaaaayy easier to mass produce. 

I'd say It's a matter of perspective. 

pig skin can be either plentyful or scarce, depending on the number of players, the amount of those players who ride beefalos (saddle needs pig skin, unless they go straight for glossamer), the amount of them who use piggy backs, etc. 

If there're only 2 people, the pig skin you get from touch stones and stuff is gonna be enough for a while, which would make football helmets cheaper to craft than log suits. But if there are, as you said, 5-6 people, making log suits would be preferable, especially since there's a pretty high chance that at least one of those people would play as someone who could get logs easily. 

but yeah, iirc with stuff like thulicite armor, suits are more expensive (although iirc they also have more durability) 

[BB Marioni]

1 minute ago, skile said:

I'd say It's a matter of perspective. 

pig skin can be either plentyful or scarce, depending on the number of players, the amount of those players who ride beefalos (saddle needs pig skin, unless they go straight for glossamer), the amount of them who use piggy backs, etc. 

If there're only 2 people, the pig skin you get from touch stones and stuff is gonna be enough for a while, which would make football helmets cheaper to craft than log suits. But if there are, as you said, 5-6 people, making log suits would be preferable, especially since there's a pretty high chance that at least one of those people would play as someone who could get logs easily. 

but yeah, iirc with stuff like thulicite armor, suits are more expensive (although iirc they also have more durability) 

also add other pig skin crafts to that like hambat, and on a new multiplayer server where not everyone has eyebrella yet, umbrellas. Plus people who would ride beefalos. compared to how we would usually have like 8 chests full of logs mid game