"Forgotten detail in the updates" thread

[Cassielu]

AKA the QOL wish list from ecological detail fanatic.

Over the years of DST updates, both game code and gameplay logic have become more complex, and no one has a clear picture of the entire game world. As a result, whenever developers add something new to an update, they tend to inadvertently break something and create new problems. Not only technical bugs, but also gameplay bugs, many of which have survived in the game to this day. I've collected a few examples here that I hope will get noticed and fixed.

(As a fan of sandbox games, I believe that games with sandbox elements like DST should provide a more consistent world where players can use the lessons learned on one individual to interact with the same and similar individuals throughout the world.)

Any comments are welcome, as well as more forgotten details as you know.

Here we go:

New Wagstaff npc vs Old Wagstaff npc in moonstorm

Spoiler

In theTaking Root update, the Wagstaff NPC got some new behavior. If you don't give he a shard after celestial champion dies, he will randomly appear in a location on the world and continue to ask for the shard from you, but this new behavior has a few minor conflicts with the original behavior:

1. When the Celestial Champion dies, the Wagstaff in the moonstorm will say a special line and disappear to ensure that there are not two wagstaff in the world at the same time. The new though also disappears when CC dies, the new Wagstaff does not disappear when the Moon storm starts, which causes both the Wagstaff that collects static electricity during the moonstorm and the wagstaff that ask for shard exist in the world at the same time.

2.Lunar Essence Extractor is empty and has no lunar energy. After the player gives him the shard, wagstaff does the energy pumping again against the air. I'm not sure how much I know about lore, but I think this is supposed to happen after the CC event, Wagsatff has already taken cc's power, and at this point in time he has acquired the lunar energy.

3. The character's check quote for Lunar Essence Extractor is all about how it "are" absorbing CC's energy, but by the time we meet Wagstaff again in the Wilderness, the matter is over.

Wish/Suggestion: New Wagstaff NPC should disappear when Moonstorm starts. Lunar Essence Extractor for New Wagstaff NPC should play "close_idle" animation instead of "idle" animation. And mabye have a unique checking lines for this NPC and Lunar Essence Extractor?

Cutless vs Merm's Freshwater fish

Spoiler

In the Wurt character update, the developers explain that Merm drops a freshwater fish because "the fishman loves the fish and carries it as a pet". But in the Moon Quay update, Cutless was introduced as a weapon that can remove items from the mobs inventory, making the difference between "creature death drop" and "items carried by Mob" in the game. While Merm's freshwater fish is a "creature death drop", we cannot attack a Merm with Cutless to get freshwater fish, which is contrary to what Wurt told us.

Wish/Suggestion: Remove the freshwater fish from the drops of Merm, but add a freshwater fish (or other random ocean fish?) to the inventory of the Merm. And keep it fresh forever before it drop.

New Farm vs Forager Mobs

Spoiler

In the old farm system. Some vegetarian foragers like Bearger, Mosling, Lure Plant, and Depths Worm will pick and eat the food that grows on the farm, and some automated farm designs have been developed based on them. But in the new farm system, the creatures are indifferent to the crops on the farm.

Wish/Suggestion: Let them eat crops on the new farm.

Ocean Trawler vs Fish Scale-O-Matic

Spoiler

When you put a Fish into the fish Scale-O-Matic, it will show you who caught that fish. For example, A freshwater fish spit out by Catcoon will show "Caught by A Catcoon", a freshwater fish that drop by destroyed a naturally spawn merm house will show "Caught by a family of Merms", A fish jolted by an attack of CrabKing will show "Caught by The Crab King."

But a Fish caught by Ocean Trawler does not show its provenance when it is placed in the Fish Scale O-Matic, instead using the default string "An Unnamed Donor" (like "its a thing" in the character quote)

Wish/Suggestion: Let  Scale-O-Matic showing "Caught by Ocean Trawler".

Foodtype "Goodies" vs Bearger

Spoiler

We all know Bearger loves honey. It actively and preferentially seeks out honey and foods made with honey, such as toffee. But with the advent of a new foodtype called "Goodies, "most of these foods were regrouped into this new category. This results in Bearger not being able to eat them, although they actively seek them out.

The same thing happened to other vegetarian Mobs, who could no longer eat the food they would have eaten because of the Goodies.

Wish/Suggestion: Add Goodies to the edible  foodgroup of Bearger and all mobs that can eat veggie food.

Planar Entity Protection FX vs Armor

Spoiler

When the developers added Shadow and Bright Boxer, they also added a math problem to the game: a mob with both Planar Entity Protection and Armor.

Here's how it works: When a Boxer takes a hit, the armor absorbs damage first, then calculates Planar Entity Protection. Armor durability loss is not reduced by Planar Entity Protection.

But Planar Entity Protection FX, however, show us the exact opposite: it is like a transparent protective bubble through which the weapon passes before it comes into contact with the armor and Boxer. Therefore, Armor should loss less durability due to the protect of Planar Entity Protection.

Wish/Suggestion: Let Planar Entity Protection calculate before armor

Deployable Structure Kit vs "Plant" Houndius Shootius

Spoiler

 

Pirate Monkey's Map vs Player's Map and Message in a Bottle

Spoiler

Read player-made forest world maps or messages in bottles in caves, they will not be disappear. But reading a Pirate Map in a cave, It will. It's the same map. Why the difference?

Wish/Suggestion: Make Pirate Map don't disappear when reading it in the cave.

Ruins Turf vs Ruins Replica Relic

Spoiler

Players can obtain Replica Relic blueprints by placing specified items into the Ancient Chest, which are for decorative purposes only, but Ruins Turf, also for decorative purposes olny, is obtained in a very different way: by making a sketch directly out of papyrus. It's really... strange, theyboth are Ruins items only for decorative, but why is it so complicated to get a blueprint for Ruins Replica Relic and so easy to get a blueprint for Ruins Turf?

Wish/Suggestion: Change the Ruins Replica Relic blueprint acquisition method to make from the Ancient Pseudoscience Station, or change the Ruins Turf Blueprint acquisition method to put items in the Ancient Treasure Chest.

Sentimental Adornment

Spoiler

It's been three years...

 

[gamehun20]

most of these display nothing for me so i have no way of commenting on anything but that the pearl trinkets have no quotes which are something i got once in winter feast and never again so i never really saw and that imitation ruins turfs and ruins turfs are a blueprint from the ancient pseudo station could also be put in the terra firma i guess.

[_zwb]

Wagstaff in game is only a projection, he can just send many copies of himself to the constant.

 

About the cutlass, merms can grab things really tight, so you can't get items off them, make sense to me. (Code wise, the fish is spawned right on the merm's death, so you can't get it out their inv. The same is true for cursed trinkets)

 

One more thing about bearger, she can't loot food from new storages such as salt box, scale-o-matic and trawl net, I think the devs just forgot about bearger's interaction.

[JosePapp]

Lunacy uses the same transition sound as insanity despite representing different extremes on the sanity spectrum.

[Spino43]

Imitation ruins turfs should be craftable at the terra firma tamper imo

[Theukon-dos]

14 hours ago, Cassielu said:

Planar Entity Protection FX vs Armor

  Reveal hidden contents

When the developers added Shadow and Bright Boxer, they also added a math problem to the game: a mob with both Planar Entity Protection and Armor.

Here's how it works: When a Boxer takes a hit, the armor absorbs damage first, then calculates Planar Entity Protection. Armor durability loss is not reduced by Planar Entity Protection.

But Planar Entity Protection FX, however, show us the exact opposite: it is like a transparent protective bubble through which the weapon passes before it comes into contact with the armor and Boxer. Therefore, Armor should loss less durability due to the protect of Planar Entity Protection.

Wish/Suggestion: Let Planar Entity Protection calculate before armor

 

Adding this to the "Why planar damage is awful" List.

 

Ehem, in all serious, that's an impressive list of details that have been looked over as the years went on. Klei should hire you for QA testing. 

[Theukon-dos]

Actually, there are a couple other oversights I'd like to add, this time in relation to food.

 

First of all, Puffed Potato Souffle

Spoiler

Look at how awful this recipe is. 2 potatoes and an egg for that? A cooked potato alone restores the 20 HP, 2 potatoes restore 50 hunger, and spiraled potato tubers give the same sanity for only a single potato. This is the single worst recipe in DST as far as efficiency goes. Yes, even worse than Powder Cakes. But how did we possibly get here? Well, it's actually quite simple. As some of you may know, this is a very simple retexture of one of Warly's SW recipes, the Sweet Potato Souffle.

But here's the thing. Sweet Potatoes are Shipwrecked's version of Carrots. And eggs can occasionally drop from trees, as opposed to needing a bird cage. So that 20 HP and 15 Sanity is actually a pretty nice boost compared to the base ingredients, albeit at the cost of some hunger still. So for those stats to make sense on the Puffed Potato Souffle, it would be more accurate to be crafted with carrots and birch nuts. 

 

And second, Did you know that you can't make Seafood Gumbo with Seafood? Well, not just seafood atleast.

You see, Seafood Gumbo requires a fish value of higher than 2, but a meat value of 2 or lower, as 2.5 meat is needed to make a Surf 'n turf instead. But when fishing was added to DST, fish morsels and fish meat was "Buffed" to have a meat value that matched it's fish value (0.5 for fish morsels, 1 for fish meat). Which means that when used in a crock pot, the fish value will always match the meat value and make Surf n' Turf instead. The only way to get the meat value lower than the fish value is to use eel, which still has the lower meat/fish ratio. 

This isn't usually something you have to worry about though. Because Seafood Gumbo is worse than Surf and Turf in nearly every conceivable way anyways. Because [redacted] you.

Spoiler

 

[Creatorofswamps]

A clever disguise, there is a discrepancy in it, it is made of live fish, in fact you kill the fish and create a mask from its pieces, Wurt and merms would not want the fish to die, please replace the fish with kelp leaves, there is a lot of greenery in the mask, it would be more logical and humane

[dois raios]

19 hours ago, _zwb said:

About the cutlass, merms can grab things really tight, so you can't get items off them, make sense to me.

Wait is wurt immune from stealing at all?

[Creatorofswamps]

4 minutes ago, dois raios said:

Wait is wurt immune from stealing at all?

If I am not mistaken , objects fall from Wurt , but if this logic is correct , then they should not

[gamehun20]

8 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

If I am not mistaken , objects fall from Wurt , but if this logic is correct , then they should not

Wurt has a strong grip means objects don't fall from her hand not the inventory 

[Spino43]

6 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Actually, there are a couple other oversights I'd like to add, this time in relation to food.

 

First of all, Puffed Potato Souffle

  Hide contents

Look at how awful this recipe is. 2 potatoes and an egg for that? A cooked potato alone restores the 20 HP, 2 potatoes restore 50 hunger, and spiraled potato tubers give the same sanity for only a single potato. This is the single worst recipe in DST as far as efficiency goes. Yes, even worse than Powder Cakes. But how did we possibly get here? Well, it's actually quite simple. As some of you may know, this is a very simple retexture of one of Warly's SW recipes, the Sweet Potato Souffle.

But here's the thing. Sweet Potatoes are Shipwrecked's version of Carrots. And eggs can occasionally drop from trees, as opposed to needing a bird cage. So that 20 HP and 15 Sanity is actually a pretty nice boost compared to the base ingredients, albeit at the cost of some hunger still. So for those stats to make sense on the Puffed Potato Souffle, it would be more accurate to be crafted with carrots and birch nuts. 

 

And second, Did you know that you can't make Seafood Gumbo with Seafood? Well, not just seafood atleast.

You see, Seafood Gumbo requires a fish value of higher than 2, but a meat value of 2 or lower, as 2.5 meat is needed to make a Surf 'n turf instead. But when fishing was added to DST, fish morsels and fish meat was "Buffed" to have a meat value that matched it's fish value (0.5 for fish morsels, 1 for fish meat). Which means that when used in a crock pot, the fish value will always match the meat value and make Surf n' Turf instead. The only way to get the meat value lower than the fish value is to use eel, which still has the lower meat/fish ratio. 

This isn't usually something you have to worry about though. Because Seafood Gumbo is worse than Surf and Turf in nearly every conceivable way anyways. Because [redacted] you.

  Hide contents

 

Caviar is also abhorrently bad. Stuffed eggplant isn't as good as cooked eggplant because ???. Pumpkin cookies is a literal joke, just eat a taffy and a cooked pumpkin give you more benefit than using a pumpkin in the recipe. 

[Cassielu]

1 hour ago, gamehun20 said:

Wurt has a strong grip means objects don't fall from her hand not the inventory 

Unfortunately. Cutless is unable to steal items from hand slot, no matter who the target is.

Also freshwater fish can't be held in the hand.

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, dois raios said:

Wait is wurt immune from stealing at all?

Sadly no, but she is immune to bearger and mosse/goose's force drop weapon ability

[gamehun20]

4 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Unfortunately. Cutless is unable to steal items from hand slot, no matter who the target is.

I know i was clarifying to the logic of strong grip = whole inventory is unlootable thing

[Cassielu]

21 hours ago, _zwb said:

Wagstaff in game is only a projection, he can just send many copies of himself to the constant.

Nice theory, but...
We have a mechanism to make the Wagstaff that draws CC energy and the Wagstaff that collects static electricity never exist at the same time, so they are the same Wagstaff.
We also have a mechanism to make the Wagstaff that draws CC energy and the Wagstaff that ask for the shard never exist at the same time, so they are also the same Wagstaff.
But the Wagstaff that collects static electricity and the Wagstaff that ask for shard will show up at the same time...

If the first two mechanisms were not present, it could indeed be true. But their presence makes it look more like an oversight.

10 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

I know i was clarifying to the logic of strong grip = whole inventory is unlootable thing

Sorry, I replied to the wrong person

[_zwb]

1 minute ago, Cassielu said:

Nice theory, but...
We have a mechanism to make the Wagstaff that draws CC energy and the Wagstaff that collects static electricity never exist at the same time, so they are the same Wagstaff.
We also have a mechanism to make the Wagstaff that draws CC energy and the Wagstaff that ask for the shard never exist at the same time, so they are also the same Wagstaff.
But the Wagstaff that collects static electricity and the Wagstaff that ask for shard will show up at the same time...

Could someone make a trinitas diagram out of this?

[Creatorofswamps]

4 hours ago, Creatorofswamps said:

A clever disguise, there is a discrepancy in it, it is made of live fish, in fact you kill the fish and create a mask from its pieces, Wurt and merms would not want the fish to die, please replace the fish with kelp leaves, there is a lot of greenery in the mask, it would be more logical and humane

To the topic of inconsistencies, Wurt for some reason loses his mind from the fact that he wears an artificial disguise, although it would seem why? She's  merm why does she waste her mind when she disguises herself. I think she should increase her sanity when she wears it by +0.6 (like Willow holding a torch)

[gamehun20]

7 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

To the topic of inconsistencies, Wurt for some reason loses his mind from the fact that he wears an artificial disguise, although it would seem why? She's  merm why does she waste her mind when she disguises herself. I think she should increase her sanity when she wears it by +0.6 (like Willow holding a torch)

because it has a dead fish in it?

[Creatorofswamps]

3 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

because it has a dead fish in it?

That's why the fish in the recipe is strange, the Wurt won't kill the fish, it won't want them dead

This contradicts the character. so it was earlier when she said she loved water and she was losing her mind because of getting wet

[MostMerryTomcat]

15 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

That's why the fish in the recipe is strange, the Wurt won't kill the fish, it won't want them dead

This contradicts the character. so it was earlier when she said she loved water and she was losing her mind because of getting wet

The Fish's not dead, silly. It just magically morphed with Reed & Twigs into some Cronenbergian body-horror monstrosity Survivors wear stretched on their faces. Now Fish silently screams non-stop at high dark heavens, glassy eyes bulging, devoid of any sliver of hope all the while slowly rotting away alive. Happens.

[Creatorofswamps]

32 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

The Fish's not dead, silly. It just magically morphed with Reed & Twigs into some Cronenbergian body-horror monstrosity Survivors wear stretched on their faces. Now Fish silently screams non-stop at high dark heavens, glassy eyes bulging, devoid of any sliver of hope all the while slowly rotting away alive. Happens.

 

[Cassielu]

Ah, these discussions remind me that if you destroy a merm head stick, it will drop a live freshwater fish.

This would seem to support the explain that Merm itself is a fish, but... which makes the whole thing even weirder.

[-Variant]

1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

This would seem to support the explain that Merm itself is a fish, but... which makes the whole thing even weirder.

To be fair, Merms used to drop fish because they were made of fish and 'fish meat' didn't come until long after.
It's why they and their heads dropped fish! I think the wiki never notes it. 
Though later on the 'merms keep fish as pets' thing was introduced.

[Popian]

On 5/29/2023 at 1:17 PM, Cassielu said:

New Wagstaff npc vs Old Wagstaff npc in moonstorm

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In theTaking Root update, the Wagstaff NPC got some new behavior. If you don't give he a shard after celestial champion dies, he will randomly appear in a location on the world and continue to ask for the shard from you, but this new behavior has a few minor conflicts with the original behavior:

1. When the Celestial Champion dies, the Wagstaff in the moonstorm will say a special line and disappear to ensure that there are not two wagstaff in the world at the same time. The new though also disappears when CC dies, the new Wagstaff does not disappear when the Moon storm starts, which causes both the Wagstaff that collects static electricity during the moonstorm and the wagstaff that ask for shard exist in the world at the same time.

2.Lunar Essence Extractor is empty and has no lunar energy. After the player gives him the shard, wagstaff does the energy pumping again against the air. I'm not sure how much I know about lore, but I think this is supposed to happen after the CC event, Wagsatff has already taken cc's power, and at this point in time he has acquired the lunar energy.

3. The character's check quote for Lunar Essence Extractor is all about how it "are" absorbing CC's energy, but by the time we meet Wagstaff again in the Wilderness, the matter is over.

Wish/Suggestion: New Wagstaff NPC should disappear when Moonstorm starts. Lunar Essence Extractor for New Wagstaff NPC should play "close_idle" animation instead of "idle" animation. And mabye have a unique checking lines for this NPC and Lunar Essence Extractor?

 

Gameplay matters more. With that kind of logic Celestial Champion should only be able to be defeated once, meaning only 1 crown to be shared in the multiplayer server to either be worn by one player or having at max 5-6 infinite light lamps. What would be taken away with this suggestion is the ability to activate rifts without defeating Celestial Champion again.

Lore-wise the current behavior is not a major problem (the animation and quotes could be tweaked) as time is warped in the Constant and the Florid Postern is bringing in the same character from alternate timelines(?) to explain why you can have 2 Wendys in a server. It could be that he used some of the lunar energy from Celestial Champion to bring Moon Quay, which already exists when you enter a new world. Alternatively, sending extra transmissions could take a lot of resources but he might find it worth it to send one wherever he thinks he can take advantage of lunar energy.

On 5/29/2023 at 1:17 PM, Cassielu said:

New Farm vs Forager Mobs

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In the old farm system. Some vegetarian foragers like Bearger, Mosling, Lure Plant, and Depths Worm will pick and eat the food that grows on the farm, and some automated farm designs have been developed based on them. But in the new farm system, the creatures are indifferent to the crops on the farm.

Wish/Suggestion: Let them eat crops on the new farm.

Eye Plants can already pick crops (somewhat stupid as it buffs reading even more) and Depth Worms seem to be able to pick rotten(?) crops only. I don't think having anything else pick crops would provide a qol as deleting your work would further disincentivize farming as a food source.

On 5/30/2023 at 4:34 PM, Creatorofswamps said:

That's why the fish in the recipe is strange, the Wurt won't kill the fish, it won't want them dead

This contradicts the character. so it was earlier when she said she loved water and she was losing her mind because of getting wet

It does help make a convincing disguise from not only the looks but the smell.