RIP Wanda. Wolfgang supremacy. Planar damage (video).

[Cruvimaster]

DPS (normal mechanics): Wolfgang with dark sword at 200 health > Wanda with Alarming Clock at 65 age (37.5 health).

DPS (planar mechanics): Wolfgang >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 

[CyberSkink]

I wouldn't be so quick to make judgements, Klei might add something that makes Wanda just as good against lunar creatures. Obviously, I'm not clairvoyant, but we will see...

[Cruvimaster]

14 minutes ago, CyberSkink said:

I wouldn't be so quick to make judgements, Klei might add something that makes Wanda just as good against lunar creatures. Obviously, I'm not clairvoyant, but we will see...

My focus was to show reality now. And the beta is ending. It was a totally objective in-game test. I hope Klei reflects on this. Wanda was one of Klei's best works when leaving Wilson's standard mechanic. Strong character in the offensive system, but very fragile in the defensive system. Most players fail to play Wanda on Day 1 as it is difficult.

[PetulantPansy]

Yes this is a tough penalty on wanda, but it's pretty difficult to feel sorry for her considering how strong she still is.

 

Also the better question is - why should wanda even use the new sword. Mighty wolf with the new sword only gets 6 more damage than old wanda (with alarming clock), but wanda gets more range. That sounds like a completely fair tradeoff.

[Cruvimaster]

6 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

Yes this is a tough penalty on wanda but it's still pretty difficult to feel sorry for her considering how strong she still is.

 

Also the better question is - why should wanda even use the new sword. Mighty wolf only gets 6 more damage than wanda (with alarming clock) with the new sword, but wanda gets more range. That sounds like a completely fair tradeoff.

There is no more range for the planar system. Do you understand that even that is a nerf for Wanda?

With 200 hp and easy food healing system, Wolfgang can just hit anything with only 80% armor. Wanda is forced to protect herself from damage (37,5 hp) and this is the reason for his more range weapon.

 

[Toroic]

All I'm seeing is that wanda should either be young with the brightsword or old with alarming clock because that's where her optimization points are.

You're being melodramatic though with "RIP Wanda" because she still has no penalty revives and global (and cross-shard) teleport networks that she can let allies use.

Wanda still does good damage when old with the alarming clock compared to others, and will always be valuable for her utility.

[Duck986]

1) Wanda still decimates everything before the rifts, and no one sane rushes the celestial champion.

2) *cough-cough* Wanda always was weaker than Wolfgang in terms of DPS *cough-cough*

[Antynomity]

Wolfgang always had higher DPS.

[Mr Giggio]

3 hours ago, Duck986 said:

Wanda always was weaker than Wolfgang in terms of DPS *

 

2 hours ago, yourAnty said:

Wolfgang always had higher DPS

Thats tricky to say tho. Animation canceling is a thing and she Will be way stronger than him in a situation you can Focus on that and in day-by-day situations its not relevant

 

I can show some examples

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrI9tvYTfeJHgFsyTmRvw1jg51G9fXI2s

 

Like misery toad in 11:39 I think its one hard to beat or even Dfly

 

[Duck986]

18 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

Thats tricky to say tho. Animation canceling is a thing and she Will be way stronger than him in a situation you can Focus on that and in day-by-day situations its not relevant

 

I can show some examples

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrI9tvYTfeJHgFsyTmRvw1jg51G9fXI2s

 

Like misery toad in 11:39 I think its one hard to beat or even Dfly

I mean, with animation cancelling - yea, probably, but I was considering standard conditions: Buffed Wolfgang + dark sword + 0.5 seconds/attack, and Old Wanda + Alarming Clock + 0.67 seconds/attack

[Cruvimaster]

5 hours ago, Toros said:

All I'm seeing is that wanda should either be young with the brightsword or old with alarming clock because that's where her optimization points are.

You're being melodramatic though with "RIP Wanda" because she still has no penalty revives and global (and cross-shard) teleport networks that she can let allies use.

Wanda still does good damage when old with the alarming clock compared to others, and will always be valuable for her utility.

All of Wanda's mechanics are being nerfed (planar damage), but main Wolfgang denies this fact.

[Yuuko]

12 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

All of Wanda's mechanics are being nerfed (planar damage), but main Wolfgang denies this fact.

Well he has a point in that Wolfgang will still hit harder, and with how easy it is to maintain mighty its not like he has any big downsides he's dealing with.

I don't see this as a reason to embrace the new mechanic because sure, dealing 74 damage is more than 66 but that is a paltry increase...  Wanda drops significantly as well.

These characters are picked for their combat ability.  If I wanted to play a non-combat character I would lol so I see it as a big negative that they are taking these characters and nerfing their primary aspects.

And I'm pretty sick of people pretending Klei just has some master plan that I don't understand.  If there isn't enough in this beta to test and give feedback - then don't send it to beta...

[sudoku]

Tbh I think its fine if these characters are still strong for 90% of the game progression until they beat CC and then when the game gets a little more challenging they drop off a bit...

I dont really see a problem here.  The video doesnt show it but i'd like to see the damage for other characters comparatively. If they still do more damage than them then they still benefit from their perks. If they dont and everyone is equalized, again, they still benefited from their perks for all the way up to CC. 

A lot of other characters perks or items are more tied to game progression where they are good at a certain portion of the game but  get outshined later (Willow and her lighter, Wig and her spear and helmet, ) so i dont see it as a bad thing that the damage based characters do the same.  

[Duck986]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

And I'm pretty sick of people pretending Klei just has some master plan that I don't understand.  If there isn't enough in this beta to test and give feedback - then don't send it to beta...

I still don't understand why don't they take some time to make a MASSIVE update instead of separating it into parts. Of course the beta-test will take longer, but you already had beta for the entire freakin' DLC (hello, Hamlet), and this will also help us to see a bigger picture.

Big updates have better hype than smaller ones, y'know. Probably a bad example, but Terraria 1.4 has just obliterated its own popularity charts, while the DST crossover update didn't become that well-known.

Darn, even character reworks despite being moderately large updates didn't have their own betas, wth.

[Toroic]

3 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

All of Wanda's mechanics are being nerfed (planar damage), but main Wolfgang denies this fact.

All of Wanda’s mechanics are nerfed with planar damage?

She can no longer use the backstep watch to get iframes to kite better than anyone else?

She can no longer revive allies with no health penalty?

She can no longer create a global teleportation network that even works between the surface and the caves?

She can no longer negate a big incoming hit (that she didn’t dodge with backstep) by using her ageless watch?

She can’t use her unique whip, which is the highest damage weapon, and the highest damage whip by far?

It’s true that Wanda is one of the strongest combat characters in the game, but I compare her more to Wortox than Wolfgang (who I compare more to Wigfrid)

People can pick Wanda for her combat prowess, but like Wortox brings a lot of utility beyond just combat ability, specifically in terms of direct support (healing/reviving) and teleportation mobility.

Wolfgang (and Wigfrid) both have the vast majority of their perks focused around combat, so if planar damage negates their upsides, they don’t have much to fall back on.

Fortunately Wigfrid’s kit is largely unaffected by endgame.

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Well he has a point in that Wolfgang will still hit harder, and with how easy it is to maintain mighty its not like he has any big downsides he's dealing with.

I don't see this as a reason to embrace the new mechanic because sure, dealing 74 damage is more than 66 but that is a paltry increase...  Wanda drops significantly as well.

These characters are picked for their combat ability.  If I wanted to play a non-combat character I would lol so I see it as a big negative that they are taking these characters and nerfing their primary aspects.

And I'm pretty sick of people pretending Klei just has some master plan that I don't understand.  If there isn't enough in this beta to test and give feedback - then don't send it to beta...

[Spino43]

49 minutes ago, Toros said:

She can no longer create a global teleportation network that even works between the surface and the caves?

For me this is wanda's most powerful ability. Even if her combat ability is removed I would still play her due to just how good it is.

[loopuleasa]

If wanda's alarming clock was removed from the game, she would still be top tier.

[00petar00]

I main Wanda and this doesn't seem like a big deal to me, its pretty minor. It could be a problem if planar system is introduced to more enemies (especially bosses) but I don't think it will happen on a large scale, maybe one or two bosses will have planar defense but she will still be top tier because of the ability to teleport, no character can surpass her as the best character as long as she has that ability and no one else can teleport except Wortox by paying a large amount of souls.

Also worth mentioning is that she doesn't have penalty for death, I can just die as many times as I want because life giving amulets are cheap and in multiplayer she can revive anyone and just has to wait a cooldown on her second chance watch or by paying a purple gem she can teleport a group of players to any boss she wants to kill, mainly fuelweaver because he requires the most time to get to.

I don't think klei will go all in with planar system or future new damage systems because it will be quite detrimental to a quite a few characters and would invalidate a lot of items.

Why bother killing twins of terror if shield of terror will not be used after CC? This is just one example, It would invalidate most of the progression if klei completely switched to new damage systems whether it be lunar or anything else.

[GodIess]

This comparison is inappropriate:
1 wand does more damage and it is visible in the video than a wolf with a shadow sword.
2 Wolf has x2 damage, so he does more damage with his new sword than Wanda with the same sword

[Mr Giggio]

13 hours ago, sudoku said:

I think its fine if these characters are still strong for 90% of the game progression until they beat CC and then when the game gets a little more challenging they drop off a bit

I love that to be honest, thats how end game should be like. Im kinda sad to see any dificulty implemented bein criticized cuz "oh my farms thats tough remove pls"

I mean come on I know DST isnt that tough for veterans but when It finally can have a twist some of u guys doesnt seem open minded to adapt. 

[Antynomity]

17 hours ago, Mr Giggio said:

 

Thats tricky to say tho. Animation canceling is a thing and she Will be way stronger than him in a situation you can Focus on that and in day-by-day situations its not relevant

 

I can show some examples

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrI9tvYTfeJHgFsyTmRvw1jg51G9fXI2s

 

Like misery toad in 11:39 I think its one hard to beat or even Dfly

 

You forgot Wolfang can also animation cancel.

[SirToastyToes]

don't starve players when a single creature that you fight after one of the final bosses has armor instead of 2000 extra hp

[Mr Giggio]

1 hour ago, yourAnty said:

You forgot Wolfang can also animation cancel.

I actually didnt. The fact she has less dps than Wolfie in a normal situation its cuz she lands less hits than him. When u cancel It is almost the same 

 

For example 7 hits in dfly both, when she does 5 and he 6 without canceling.

[Mattwalt]

That is a massive overreaction. Wanda is still incredibly strong in the DPS department even if not taking advantage of planar damage. Until planar damage becomes 100% required for end game content (and Wanda doesn't end up getting a planar whip) then she is still completely viable. Wolfgang doing more damage is nothing new. Wanda brings a UNIQUE playstyle and unrivaled transportation/support options on top of being one of the top DPS units. IMO she has always been a bit overpowered, so her falling off *a bit* in dps in the extreme late game is a non-issue.

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Mattwalt said:

That is a massive overreaction. Wanda is still incredibly strong in the DPS department even if not taking advantage of planar damage. Until planar damage becomes 100% required for end game content (and Wanda doesn't end up getting a planar whip) then she is still completely viable. Wolfgang doing more damage is nothing new. Wanda brings a UNIQUE playstyle and unrivaled transportation/support options on top of being one of the top DPS units. IMO she has always been a bit overpowered, so her falling off *a bit* in dps in the extreme late game is a non-issue.

til "Quite Powerful" means literally the same as everyone else...

And here I thought combat characters were supposed to be better...  My mistake I guess.  "Quite Powerful" 68 damage per hit...  This update changes everything, sure am glad I couldn't just use the weapons I already had that dealt 68 per hit... /s