At least one of the "core game enhancement" updates should tackle this issue

[sudoku]

Its great to see klei interested in making the new player experience better and their plans seem like a good start, however, if they wanna go down this route, i encourage them to really, really take a look at the foundation of their game and how it can contribute to a new players' confusion, frustration, and eventual abandonment of the game.

To me this begins as quickly as being greeted with the main menu screen. New players who have just bought the game "Don't Starve Together" likely  want to hop into a game with others quickly and with minimal effort as possible, and yet after clicking the "Play!" button and being taken to the main menu they are presented with the choices of "Browse Games" and Host "game". Clicking browse then leads them to another screen with the browser menu but not before a popup comes up encouraging the player to host their own world to get accustomed to the game. 

Now a new player is of two minds. One will listen to the game and go back and choose to host a world, where they are then presented with a massive amount of options for creating their world. Now dont get me wrong these options are great but for a new player who just wants to play they are completely irrelevant, abundantly overwhelming, and really only exacerbate the amount of time spent not in a game, when the single most important thing for a new player is to throw them into your game. 

Now the other new player just wants to play multiplayer because thats this games main selling point, or it should be, as its called "Dont Starve Together" and a good multiplayer environment is going to be on the main things new players will judge the game on. Instead of the task of going through game options, these players are tasked with navigating the cumbersome browser list. New players will most likely be drawn to servers who have low ping and a decent number of players. And considering the state of official servers which are either down/full a good chunk of the time this doesnt leave many options. At worst, it may even discourage new players to see that there are not many people playing close to them. And even if they manage to find a world to join, if it is player hosted the game can be interrupted and ended at any time by the host causing frustration for others on the server.  I think that this is a huge problem with the new player experience. 

The point is this system is a hassle for new players, and really should not be the entry point for people who are just learning to play, and I'd like to see one of the core game enhancement completely redesign this system.

I dont think we should lose the server browser, but i think rather than being the main way we join/host worlds, i think it should be secondary to a Quick Join system. This would be listed first on the main menu and all new players have to do is click choose what season they wish to start, and then immediately be put into a game. No settings, no browser lists, just straight into it.

This is how it could function:

 The matchmaker could look at a list of available servers with appropriate ping and see how many players and what day the server is on and then attempt to join the player on that world. 

If there are no servers available a new world is created with the player acting as host.. 

Additionally, we all know that official servers fill up rather quickly because a dedicated server means no hassling around with who is the host and planning around when/if they leave, so this leaves new players who want to play in a multiplayer setting to have to join another player which means you are completley reliant on when they disconnect or host your own world which presents this problem to other players as well as giving you a feeling that you cannot disconnect or else everyone else gets booted too. Again, I think that this is a huge problem with the new player experience. DST is open ended, there is no matchtime, or typical game session, so part of the problem with DST being a multiplayer game is no one is going to agree with how much time they think a current play session should last. We need a system to alleviate this issue.

I'd love to see a system in game where if you choose to host an online world then that world is considered a community save so that when a host disconnects, then the game pauses for a moment while the server is migrated over to another player who is still in the game, and continues to migrate hosts until the server is empty at which point the server shuts down. The end result would not quite be a dedicated server as it depends on players connections but it would function similarly.

I'd also go ahead and give everyone on a server a copy of that world to host/play through normal means at a later time when they do eventually disconnect. Perhaps, even, an additional item could appear on the main menu called "Continue" where you host the last quick joined world saved on your computer.

I think this all allows for an easier more streamlined and less confusing experience for not only newer players but for players overall, especially those who purchase the game with multiplayer being a main selling point.

  

 

[gamehun20]

25 minutes ago, sudoku said:

moment while the server is migrated over to another player

That's all well and good but have you heard of a single game that does this?

And what if the player who has the worst internet gets chosen as host? Will the wait screen for the process be half a hour or longer? This would also fill up everyone's drives very fast, dst worlds with every update get bigger and bigger

[sudoku]

1 minute ago, gamehun20 said:

That's all well and good but have you heard of a single game that does this?

And what if the player who has the worst internet gets chosen as host? Will the wait screen for the process be half a hour or longer? This would also fill up everyone's drives very fast, dst worlds with every update get bigger and bigger

yes, just look up host migration. Plenty of games have it. 

Obviously the system would have a few kinks in it regarding the internet connection of other players, but aside from every server being dedicated there is really no way around it. They'd need parameters for deciding who should host based off internet connection so that the best possible choice is picked. If the only players left to host dont meet the criteria for a decent host then the system could just terminate the server anyway. 

The wait process would not be a half an hour, at least i dont think it would be. From what i can tell of host migration in other games it is not that long of a process and can be done in under a minute. Granted I dont know how that applies to DST as i dont know its networking backend

[RotTown]

A quick join feature was available for prior events, so it seems within reason to add + completely possible… I can get behind that :-} although I personally don’t mind the browser-esc UI in general and didn’t when initially getting into the game.  I feel it’s subjective in whether or not it’s ‘too much’, although I could see the argument being made for updating it/making it a bit less cluttered. 

 

As for hosting itself, I think constant server migration might have a slew of issues if there’s no proper filtration of who can and cannot have the server’s ownership passed to them.  There is no way to ensure everyone’s specs align with eachothers’ or consistency in internet connectivity.  Perhaps there could be some sort of whitelist of players chosen by the prior host instead of it being left to chance?  It’d seem a bit unfair to everyone else (new host included) to have a resource-heavy shoved onto their lower-end PC.

[sudoku]

11 minutes ago, DoeEyedDarling said:

As for hosting itself, I think constant server migration might have a slew of issues if there’s no proper filtration of who can and cannot have the server’s ownership passed to them.  There is no way to ensure everyone’s specs align with eachothers’ or consistency in internet connectivity.  Perhaps there could be some sort of whitelist of players chosen by the prior host instead of it being left to chance?  It’d seem a bit unfair to everyone else (new host included) to have a resource-heavy shoved onto their lower-end PC.

yes it would be tricky to figure out just how to do it. But i feel like proper host migration is necessary for the survival of pubs.

I think the best way to go about it would be to have a check at certain intervals to gauge players connections with the best connection being chosen to host, so say the world has 3 players and a 4th joins later who is better suited to host, at some point the game would notice and then migrate them the host role.

Ideally the system would have a threshold of what it considers a smooth experience and potential hosts would be graded to co-align with it. So lower spec machines and bad connections would be chosen to be the last on the list to host. Therefore if everything goes right "bad hosts" are only hosting when it is just them alone on a server and then when additional players join theyd be assessed and if they are better hosts they get chosen instead.

[Tranoze]

Help new players? Cant wait until new player choose auto join a random close server and instant ded to summer/spring/winter.

Add feature to filter out season? filter out current day so world still have some resources for new players? filter out ping? Why not just use current lobby screen?

At somepoint, this new "feature" become too bad to use so that nobody gonna use it.

The issue is there, yes, but your solution are not good enough. Try come up with better solution than our current lobby screen.

[Rylanor]

5 hours ago, gamehun20 said:

That's all well and good but have you heard of a single game that does this?

And what if the player who has the worst internet gets chosen as host? Will the wait screen for the process be half a hour or longer? This would also fill up everyone's drives very fast, dst worlds with every update get bigger and bigger

Warframe does it, and its bane of its existence. Every problem you think about it is true, yet there is also a solid chance players might have problems to connect during host migration, forcing game to create separate session for that one lost player. Since it wouldn't apply to DST with its massive worlds, with that mechanic implemented we would just see constant disconnections

[sudoku]

34 minutes ago, Rylanor said:

Every problem you think about it is true, yet there is also a solid chance players might have problems to connect during host migration, forcing game to create separate session for that one lost player. Since it wouldn't apply to DST with its massive worlds, with that mechanic implemented we would just see constant disconnections

In a loss of connection scenario, currently the server just ends.

With host migration there would be at least an attempt to keep the server going for other players.

I dont see how its a negative to the current situation. If anything its a net positive purely for existing. 

 

Obviously itd have to be a complex system with a lot of quirks and caveats. If a player disconnects during a host migration then i would not have the system create a new session just for them, id kick them back to the main menu

 

[. . .]

i think core game enhancement would be cooler to do something like make all textures HD or something like that, i think rn it's not hard for new players to play dst and most new players will play with their friends who will tell them how to play anyways so it's not a real problem needing fixing

[Mike23Ua]

So what your wanting is something similar to Minecraft’s monthly paid subscription mode “Realms”? 
 

I think that would be too much of a pure headache to try to do for DST, because for one- the amount of skins available within the game is absolutely enormous unlike Minecraft, where once the world is hosted the the applied template can’t be swapped out by hitting it with a Clean Sweeper.

And Two: DST is way too Chaotic of a game for me to trust such a system to exist, friend 1- Downloads world after you log off proceeds to play as Normal then log off, Friend 2 downloads the save file and is a bit drunk so they think it’ll be “fun” to hammer everything, burn everything and go around the world changing the skins of everything just for craps & giggles. You: Redownload the save later to discover more chaos has happened then a griever could ever dream of accomplishing with no way of rolling back to a previous file.

I would HATE to have my WintersFeast chests clean sweeper into one of those ugly terraria or default looks in my absence from my “Realm”

What your wanting sounds impractical, Klei servers doesn’t even exist on the Xbox versions of the game (surely there has to be a reason for that right??)

AND most importantly it would take development & resources away that could’ve been better used doing something else, such as adding a “Quick Swap” feature between the Walking Cane & a Weapon. Every time I watch videos of people playing DST on Twitch- I notice that the “META” way to play the game optimally is to switch between Walking Cane to move/dodge attacks, and weapon to smack foes with.
 

The thing about that is.. at least within my experience of it- is that it’s too slow to navigate inventory and get to these items.

When a game like Ark Survival Evolved, allows me to assign “Button Input Commands” so by pressing something as simple as LB + X will swap immediately to the item I have assigned to LB + X button Input, and if I don’t HAVE the item I have assigned to that Input, but I have the resources required to CRAFT said item, it will instead craft and replace that item back into the assigned input slot.

THAT To Me would be considered a “Game Enhancement” that is far more important (in my opinion) then getting something similar to Minecraft “Realms”

[sudoku]

No, all i am asking is for klei to create a better multiplayer environment that promotes an easier way for players to matchmake with one another and while at the same time providing tools that every other modern multiplayer game has. 

If you want to play a game of Don't Starve Together with people, besides the official dedicated servers, of which there are 24 spots for your region, you have to rely on joining other players worlds of which you have no idea when these servers will go down, or host your own world where you create that same issue for the players joining your world. 

A new player joining Johnny's server for 20 minutes before he disconnects, losing progress, and having to join another persons server which likely will be in Autumn not only is frustrating for newer players learning the game and for players who want to play with others but also promotes Autumn being the perpetual forever season that newer players will never leave because of how the game functions. 

 

[Mike23Ua]

But.. you just literally described the only experience Xbox players have ever known for the game, and despite adding even more new servers for PC/PlayStation, Xbox never got those either.

Im starting to Question if their absence from Xbox is due to Sonys refusal to do Cross-Play on a lot of things.

But regardless, for people to be able to create, share & “shared host” a world- would be similar to Minecraft Realms- which is a paid monthly subscription service that I am going to guess is a paid monthly subscription service just so Mojang/Whoever can keep the servers running.

Also joining other peoples hosted worlds (again the only experience available on Xbox besides hosting your own..) was made EVEN MORE confusing when players were given the freedom to toggle on/off/more/less over a lot of the games features.

What this leads to is joining someone’s world, playing for long periods of time, and then that experience becomes a waste of your time when you find out they have something vital like Shadow Creatures toggled to OFF.

There’s also the fact that once the host disconnects, or loses connection: that it boots you back to the games menus & chances are: you may never see that world again.

The Xbox DST Experience in a Nutshell. And the only time I ever expect it to change- is when Klei can finally get the Green Light on Cross-Play.

[sudoku]

I think your missing the point. 

Klei knows theres a problem with retaining new players as evidenced by their increasing focus and efforts on trying to appeal to them and why new players were emphasized so heavily in the roadmap. Players arent sticking around - for whatever reason.

Klei figures its because the game is too hard, something they stated directly in the roadmap, but i'd wager that on top of that, another prime problem is that Don't Starve Together advertises itself as a multiplayer title but despite this DST does not really have a great multiplayer environment or infrastructure for exactly all of the reasons ive mentioned.  Game sessions are unpredictable and the best way to play the game is either on a limited number of unreliable dedicated servers, finding people outside of the game itself to coordinate, or simply playing by yourself - in a game called "Dont Starve Together". This is an issue.

I think the things ive mentioned could help create a better multiplayer environment for newer players to grow and hopefully keep them playing.

[Duck986]

13 hours ago, sudoku said:

and how it can contribute to a new players' confusion, frustration, and eventual abandonment of the game.

Back in my times when the game was for actual persistent true gamers and not for babies that abandon the game after the first death /jk

Thankfully they promised upgrades both for veterans and newbies though

[CameoAppearance]

I think Browse Game and Host Game are fine the way they are, and host migration sounds like an awful idea to have turned on by default in a game like DST, but a Quick Join feature that sends the player to a random open server - maybe preferentially directing them to Klei official servers, then non-Klei dedicated servers, then random people's servers - might be nice and wouldn't do any harm.

[Antynomity]

I think it'd be better to focus on actual in-game content being unclear.

*cough cough* the entire fuelweaver quest *cough*

[gamehun20]

9 minutes ago, yourAnty said:

*cough cough* the entire fuelweaver quest *cough*

it's not that unclear

[Antynomity]

6 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

it's not that unclear

Ah yes because it's soooo obvious for you to have to assemble 3 specific marble statues with the randomly placed pieces throughout the map (you have to mine the statues first as well), mine them out at a very specific time of a specific day, go down into the mostly boring and empty caves, find a set of the most dangerous areas in the entire game, find the maze, go through the maze, kill the boss (which the boss is actually good now), destroy specific rocks to get fossil pieces, assemble the right one in a biome locked behind a RANDOM tentapillar, give that said fossil in that specific biome locked behind a specific tentapillar inside of a specific setpiece in the maze you uncover when you go through the tentapillar hole, give said skeleton the heart you got from the shadow pieces you killed a long time ago, only after you socket in the key you get from the ancient guardian.

Clearly, it's very clear.

Don't forget that you also need to be prepared for one of the hardest boss fights in the game as well.

[gamehun20]

You say that but there is also the celestial champion question line which needs to you to do the moon staff event go down to the cave deconstruct the staff for the gem which you then take to the archives from where you activate the place get knowledge from magic toilets unlock them with the puzzle solver then make the celestial locator find all the pieces both on moon island and regular island and then fix up the house of a hermit to get their precious pearl and then kill one of the worst bosses in the game to get the final statue bring it back to moon island assemble them in a triangle and then do the moon storm event twice and then fight a boss with 3 phases which after defeat plunges the world into darkness for the day

[Antynomity]

Just now, gamehun20 said:

You say that but there is also the celestial champion question line which needs to you to do the moon staff event go down to the cave deconstruct the staff for the gem which you then take to the archives from where you activate the place get knowledge from magic toilets unlock them with the puzzle solver then make the celestial locator find all the pieces both on moon island and regular island and then fix up the house of a hermit to get their precious pearl and then kill one of the worst bosses in the game to get the final statue bring it back to moon island assemble them in a triangle and then do the moon storm event twice and then fight a boss with 3 phases which after defeat plunges the world into darkness for the day

it only proves my point??? A lot of things in this game are really unclear (though klei is getting better at making new content less confusing)

[gamehun20]

1 minute ago, yourAnty said:

it only proves my point??

You said the fuel weaver quest not all boss quests

[Antynomity]

8 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

You said the fuel weaver quest not all boss quests

I guess the sentence before never existed

[gamehun20]

2 minutes ago, yourAnty said:

I guess the sentence before never existed

Nope 

[Mike23Ua]

52 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

it's not that unclear

Dude.. from my experience of buying this game for going on 15-20 people on Xbox Live- the Entire game is hard for them to grasp the concept of & understand.

Now MAYBE my friends just aren’t into this type of game, but I’d think after 20 people, someone would eventually fall in love with it right? Well the answer is Wrong.

And I’ve played long enough with these 15-20 people to observe how they play & where they lose interest- while some people say it’s Winter, This is only for people who don’t care to understand the game- the ACTUAL Drop off point is around when Winter Ends.. & Spring Begins, a brand new totally confusing (to a new player) stat bar starts popping up and begins drenching them in rain water, but it’s still barely leaving Winter so getting Wet enough also causes them to start going insane (because for some reason being wet causes sanity loss) in a game that was ALREADY frustrating them to no end with the unforgiving Deerclops smashing their base.. And then them Freezing to death because the game does not explain Freezing/Overheating Insulation-

Like for example- just using an Umbrella won’t be Enough to prevent the game from trying to drown you in a sea of misery, and the game does absolutely nothing to even HINT that holding an Umbrella + Standing under a Tree + Wearing a Straw Hat will cause that Rain meter to start drying up. Then when that player “Dies” (and trust me they’ll freeze to death to rain water) they’ll be revived either by telltale heart, touchstone, or florid on endless only for their maximum health to have taken a blow and needs to be repaired with a booster shot, so not only are they still freezing to death outside of Winter with no clue as to why.. but they’re also DYING and having their max health continue to drop- and upon Respawning… their health is low, they’ve lost the gear they’ve gathered, and they’ll likely freeze to death AGAIN trying to get to it.

Pair this with needing to run from Shadow Monsters only they can see and attack, cause they’re insane and your not, a horde of hounds and their failure to understand they NEED Football Helmets or Body Armor or to run those hounds to some other mob to get away.

And you end up with a game that has one step as hell learning curve that can only be enjoyed if you look the majority of it up on a Wikipedia page.

Then there’s the Repetitiveness loop of not understanding what to do or what they CAN do so they just do the same stuff (which in my observation has been gather food, things that’ll help their sanity, avoid caves cause they don’t know how to manage said sanity, never build a boat & explore other areas of the map.. 

What you end up with is your friends getting frustrated & bored.

The biggest mistake you can make when playing this game with your friends is to let them rely on you, at that point they just sit there as a Dead Ghost while you Solo Deerclops.

Theres also a few things that even I (an experienced player who’s got every achievement in both DS & DST) get Frustrated with- starting with how if I have extra football helmets in my inventory and one breaks in combat it’ll automatically equip another from my inventory, however if I have Spears in my inventory instead of auto equipping the other one like Helmets do when one breaks my character stupidly tries to slowly fist punch whatever I was attacking.

I love the DS franchise, but there are some things about it that could certainly use better understanding. And honestly?

If Klei makes the game easier to pick up and play but harder to master, I can only see that as a win for newbies & veterans alike.

[maradyne]

Bottom line, there are too many fundamental issues with swapping hosts/sharing worlds between players in-game. Too many unstable connections, too many potato computers, too much to transfer, ect.

Which for most games would lead to centralizing most of that, but...Klei tried that with Forge and Gorge, and said that it wasn't profitable and that they likely wouldn't do it again.

 

So leaving all of that behind...better to focus on improving gameplay progression/UI design. Maybe give players more ways to connect and communicate and form groups.

Quick-match could be good in some form, I think. Though...it still has the fundamental issue of nothing you do on a random server being preserved, that being a downer for a lot of people in a game where a lot of grinding effort can be spent on the tiniest things. Maybe that needs to be addressed more.

 

Interesting ideas all around, though.