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The Pick/Axe needs just a *little* more


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As it is, the pick/axe is a terrible item that no one ever crafts in the ruins. Not because its a worthless item - if it could be prototyped than certainly a pickaxe with 267 uses that can also chop trees is better than a pickaxe with 132 uses - but its not worth an inventory slot coming up from the ruins. I would rather use that inventory slot for a thulecite crown, starcaller, or any of the other ruins goodies. Some people point to it as an ok weapon, but since it can't 2-shot spiders, bees, or other common enemies, its really no better than a spear for day-to-day combat, and a dark sword is 60% more damage in a boss fight. Having high durability doesn't really give it that much value when picks, axes, and spears are so easy to craft, and I wouldn't go into a boss fight without a hambat or a dark sword anyway.

In the beta, the pick/axe is now required to start the daywalker fight, but that just makes it a burden of something I'm compelled to bring back from the ruins rather than something I'm excited to bring back. 

In order to make this an item I am excited to use, I would suggest one of the following:

- Make it an even more versatile multi-tool by giving it hammer and shovel functionality as well. Right now, I need to carry around at least one or two tools for anything I want to do, and I constantly have to manage inventory and think about which ones I need, and then inevitably forget something anyway. Having the pick/axe be every tool would be a huge weight off my mind and my inventory and would make me excited to have it. I wouldn't even mind if you nerfed the damage back down since its not a practical weapon as is.

- Give it 51 damage. I often carry around a tentacle spike or dark sword in case of a hound wave, spiders, etc, but they do need to be replaced occasionally. I would be very excited to have.a decent weapon that lasts 8 times as long.

Thank you for considering this. I'm loving the new beta and am very excited to fight the daywalker in my regular worlds.

 

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last time i played was as warly and i started to craft it with the gold that i already pick from earthquakes to mine the statues and wasnt that bad when you have a never ending supply of thulecite and you are prepared to was that much twigs while cleaning the ruins

the recipe is annoying but the item isnt bad with the last changes

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I think @Guille6785 is right.  I use glass axes a lot.  They're easy to get built with an early trip to the lunar island.  They cost just 2 twigs and 3 glass shards, glass shards being available in decent quantity around the crafting station at worldgen.  Meanwhile a pick axe is 8 twigs and 4 gold.  Gold isn't that plentiful in the ruins.  Sure you can get a few from cave ins, but mostly you'll have to bring your gold with you.  You have to have both golden tools prototyped as well.  The p/axe does chop at slightly more strength than a gold axe, but a glass axe chops at 2.5x strength.  Even though it has only 80 uses, you're getting the work done faster which is more important imo.

If they went the other way with p/axe, more like glass axe - craft it with just thulecite and twigs, and instead of pushing it to SUPER high use counts, give it 2x efficiency.  Glass axe would beat it for efficiency chopping BUT this also mines.  Thulecite is more plentiful around the crafting stations so crafting them while in the ruins is a no brainer, and you might as well bring some back at that point lol

I do like the idea of extending its multi-tool functionality to have hammer and shovel.  It sounds really cool to have a single slot tool that could cover more tool uses, but the crafting materials and tool strength are going to be bigger factors for me then versatility or even total use count.

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I play on a private server with friends, and we're far enough in the game where we can farm FW for infinite thulecite. We still never craft the Pick/Axe, though we've tried giving it a chance a couple times after the last buff for it.

If it was also a shovel and hammer, it would be a no-brainer for me. If it was even just also a hammer, I would love it for Ruins. In the Ruins I usually don't need an axe, but I really need a hammer (and sometimes shovel). Above ground, if chopping trees, it makes a lot more sense to use glass or gold instead of thulecite, even if it's a little bit of thulecite.

Also seconding katome's point on the combat breakpoints. Everyone on my server would just rather use any other weapon.

Even after the buffs, it really still seems like a solution no one wants to a problem that no one actually has. We never thought much about it though because I thought it was just a joke item to get people confused when they say "Pick/Axe" over voice chat.

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I second OP's suggestion about giving it more functionality, and also would like to mention that it's not the first time this idea is brought up, meaning that there is decent number of people that are very interested in this suggestion being implemented.

After buff that gave pick/axe 800 uses I tried give it a chance, but it still didn't do it for me. Even if used just as durable pickaxe, it still has only around 2x durability of golden pickaxe (800 uses is only as weapon or axe, as pickaxe it has 267, and golden pickaxe has 132 for reference), which means that I need multiple of them to rush/clear ruins even if ruins are small; if I need multiple of them, I have to either occupy more inventory slots with more pick/axes, or just use other solutions. If I need at least 2 pick/axes, at this point I would rather carry extra gold in that second slot and golden pickaxe in place of first pick/axe, and while using same amount of inventory slots I would keep convenience of crafting mining tool on the go; with bigger ruins it's already 3 slots for pick/axes vs 2 slots for golden pickaxe + gold, so there is no point in such "upgrade".

One can notice that I didn't mention twigs, and recrafting golden pickaxe should take 3 inventory slots instead of 2. But in reality to clear ruins one also needs hammer, and 1 hammer is never enough for clearing ruins, which is why people (me included) just have to carry grass and twigs to ruins anyway, as well as occupy inventory slot with rocks or search for rocks every time hammer breaks in order to recraft it (very annoying, in my opinion, but necessity as there is literally no alternative hammer). That means between situation of using pickaxes and pick/axes twigs don't make a difference. And by carrying twigs and gold for golden pickaxe I even keep ability to craft shovel and check if moleworms stole something decent as a bonus.

As for usage as weapon, it doesn't reach 50 damage treshold, and also there are already a lot of better weapons to choose from, so there really was no need to buff damage from 30 to 42.5 because it's irrelevant. I'm against of buffing it more in that regard because then there is danger that it would make most if not all other weapons irrelevant, and I like how from early to late game there are different best use cases for different weapons.

So there really is no spot for pick/axe as it is now outside of purposely trying to craft this tool despite poor functionality and coming to forums saying "I stand out of the crowd because I use pick/axe" "It's good enough and I like it". Because if anything, adding hammer functionality would make this tool so much better that I fail to see how somebody could be against it. Nobody would loose anything if this suggestion was implemented, even people who already like it (if they actually exist). In the ruins - only place where tool can be crafted and place with abundance of the most limiting crafting material - there is no need for axe functionality, but need for durable hammer exists since DS times. Even if pick/axe didn't exist I would suggest adding multitool that could both hammer and mine, and consumed materials that are abundant in this specific area, so pick/axe is perfect candidate because it's already almost there.

By the way, on personal server I have mod (server mod, unfortunally) that makes pick/axe able to hammer, and buffs it's uses as tool (amount is configurable, I use value of 1000; it's a bit overkill, but even 400-500 still would be good even for big ruins, from my experience); mod also makes it's work multiplier 1.0 (configurable, but I don't like idea of 2x, so I set it to 1x), and even with those settings it made wonders to tool. Finally I could just carry 2 pick/axes (often even 1!) and not carry grass, twigs, gold, rocks, pickaxe and hammer, so finally I use multitool for it's intended purpose, and finally I'm exited to craft it and use, as well as find in labirynth. I can even enjoy it's aesthetic finally, since I really like both default look and skin it has. Unfortunally, I can't enjoy it outside of personal server, nor can I share enjoyment with a lot of people who also like to clear ruins because ??? ping problem keeps my server in the bottom of server list, and I suspect after this beta goes live mod would be incompatible with fighting new boss.

To me golden axe in recipe is not much of a problem because in the end it's just 2 more gold and 4 more twigs to spend to craft the thing. In vanilla I have to carry twigs and gold anyway (ironic, considering that at this point I can craft 2 golden pickaxes, save thulecite for other crafts and gain more convenience because of crafting on the go and saving inventory slots, which I indeed do in the end), and on modded server I just carry gold and twigs to station or used tools from surface that people leave, craft my 2 pick/axes and use them for several ruins clearings without ever worrying about tools. But if recipe was changed and only required materials abundant in the ruins (thulecite, nightmare fuel, flint; other minerals are debatable, but I have surplus of them usually) then it would also be nice, even though I, personally, still won't use it unless hammer functionality was added.

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I would use it if I could prototype it. Having to run down to the ruins each time to craft is such a bother. Even if there was some item you could get similar to how the Celestial Orb counts as the full Celestial Tab once you defeat Celestial Champion; having a surface method of crafting some or all items from the Pseudo-Science station after say, defeated AFW would 100% influence my ability not only to actually defeat AFW but also to use many of the items from the ruins I rarely use because of the inconvenience. I tend to just rely on stacks of Nightmare armor because it is so much easier to farm for.

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I think pick/axe simply doesn't belong to the Ancient Tab because of this.

21 hours ago, kaTome said:

I would rather use that inventory slot for a thulecite crown, starcaller, or any of the other ruins goodies.

It would be a good mid-game item but after visiting the ruins I simply don't chop wood as much because of starcallers and tree-chomping bosses. I could see myself using it if it was accessible earlier. Maybe if they added a prototyping station to archives that allows you to get a blueprint for it, it would be more usable. Or just give the pick/axe to Winona and add pickaxe/hammer to the ruins. 

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2 hours ago, Evelo said:

I would use it if I could prototype it. Having to run down to the ruins each time to craft is such a bother. Even if there was some item you could get similar to how the Celestial Orb counts as the full Celestial Tab once you defeat Celestial Champion; having a surface method of crafting some or all items from the Pseudo-Science station after say, defeated AFW would 100% influence my ability not only to actually defeat AFW but also to use many of the items from the ruins I rarely use because of the inconvenience. I tend to just rely on stacks of Nightmare armor because it is so much easier to farm for.

Truly with its crafting recipe as gold pick and axe if you could prototype it, it would probably get a lot of use.  Especially as you get 1-4% axe and pickaxes you could convert for some extra use.  I think either changing the materials to be native ruins materials, or making it something you can prototype to craft more of would be a good solution.

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I'm not sure giving it a prototype or a blueprint would fix the issue. I don't really use an axe that much, so the pick/axe is basically just a double durability pick to me. if I could craft it anywhere, probably would, but it still wouldn't be an item befitting the ruins

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Speaking of, can we not have a pickaxeaxe requirement? How about rooks, Wolfgang, sugar spice, bearger and gunpowder also work? I just don't see a specific tool requirement as a positive design choice. 

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On 3/6/2023 at 1:33 PM, kaTome said:

I'm not sure giving it a prototype or a blueprint would fix the issue. I don't really use an axe that much, so the pick/axe is basically just a double durability pick to me. if I could craft it anywhere, probably would, but it still wouldn't be an item befitting the ruins

The key would be saving your golden tools at 1% durability and turning them into 100% durability pick/axes

... if you care about the gold and twigs, anyway.

Personally, I would love more ways to use up thulecite. I have multiple chests overflowing with thulecite, but if I'm making a trip to the ruins, I'm probably making more essential things like staves or amulets, though I try to even it out by also making a ton of thulecite walls.

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17 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

The key would be saving your golden tools at 1% durability and turning them into 100% durability pick/axes

... if you care about the gold and twigs, anyway.

Personally, I would love more ways to use up thulecite. I have multiple chests overflowing with thulecite, but if I'm making a trip to the ruins, I'm probably making more essential things like staves or amulets, though I try to even it out by also making a ton of thulecite walls.

Yes! My problem with taking it seriously as "it's still good as a pick with more durability!" is that gold is really just unlimited. Every monster meat can become an egg and then a piece of gold, and the first trip to the ruins results in a pile of hundreds of gold in front of Pig King. Over time, it becomes more common than Flint (possibly still is, even after the Wilson change). "Use your thulecite to conserve gold" just sounds goofy.

If I could prototype it and make it anywhere, I still doubt I'd use it, even given a chest full of thulecite. I would if it could be prototyped and it required nightmare fuel or twigs or something common, instead of having to make a gold pickaxe and gold axe. If I had to carry twigs and gold to make new ones in the field, AND thulecite, I'd just make golden axes/pickaxes instead.

20 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Would be cool if I could use it to row, just so that I can use it in the most inefficient way possible. Lol just seems worth it for the memes.

This might make the Pick/Axe too strong. I suggest a new Ancient Station item named the Ham/Bat. It would be a combination driftwood oar and pitchfork.

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