Firestaff/fire dart should become a proper combat DPS tools?

[Frosty_Mentos]

There's many of them in ruins maze and there's many red gems, only other issues that it's expensive but it could be negated by the fact that if it does enough damage by having certain conditions met.

I've suggested before on Suggestions but bringing it out here since maybe I could get some people to respond, consider or tell if they're in or against this.

So my idea is basically this:

-Firestaffs and fire darts have their damage stacking up to certain number of stacks, the more charges you shoot at the target the bigger the fire damage increases against them to a certain cap against mobs players and bosses damage per second.

-Additional stacks has less fire damage adding to avoid combat being too easy, but remaining probably one of more viable options to have a ranged weapon for battle

-Continuing shooting with staves and darts would upkeep the fire stacks continuing the burn on mobs and bosses.

-Fire darts would pack a lot more stacks and higher damage boost since they are a single craftable item you gotta grind for. (I believe it does less damage against bosses from what I heard.)

-Torches won't have as much DPS but would add a couple of fire stacks just to make up for a substitute. It would not keep up with fire magic or darts in damage regard, gotta unlock those other options yourself.

-Scalemail would keep up those stacks, maybe additional buff for the armor to not take much durability damage against burning mobs? (The armor is incredibly expensive and deserves it's own QoL. I want this to be viable strategy against bosses like Bee Queen without costing dearly everything.)

-Klei would make Willow slightly happier. That's a reason and a buff, right? Fire combat expanded. Do it for Willow. :} (Higher fire damage DPS for Willow just from her doing the work.)

[DVGMedia]

Fire is not ment to be an outright damage source.
Its crowd control That does some damage.
Fire darts and fire staff are ment to take enemies out of a fight for a few seconds so you can rest.
It is theoretically better than the ice staff because majority of the enemies only take 1 hit from the fire staff to be lit
Vs multiple with the ice staff.  The only problem is the potential destruction that the fire may produce.
And that most bosses don't panic from the fire staff not providing cc.
But Thats for the player to decide when to use and whether or not its worth the risk.

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, DVGMedia said:

Fire is not ment to be an outright damage source.
Its crowd control That does some damage.
Fire darts and fire staff are ment to take enemies out of a fight for a few seconds so you can rest.
It is theoretically better than the ice staff because majority of the enemies only take 1 hit from the fire staff to be lit
Vs multiple with the ice staff.  The only problem is the potential destruction that the fire may produce.
But Thats for the player to decide when to use and whether or not its worth the risk.

Why shouldn't it become a damage source? It is a slow melting damage, it is a close/ranged weapon/tool with potential fiery destruction. Fire lacks in proper crowd control cause of it's awkward state of range that damages enemies around not enough to be good at doing anything but just annoy creatures as of it's current state.

You're a Wendy main and let's give a comparison to Abigail who is completely AOE and could be compared to a weatherpain but permanent, not so much to being like fire cause of lack of ranged it has compared to her but effects are generally supposed to be the same - enemy action suppression. An issue comes to that there's very few enemies where you can incorporate fire as a crowd control, especially way less viable against bosses. Maybe more useful for Toadstool's trees, but that much is that.

If it sucks as a crowd control tool, and I have tried, you can't convince me that firestaffs has much use anywhere that would be significant but lighting gunpowder or trees if it came to that case. It's mostly just an expensive torch. It needs some new mechanics to be interesting and useful cause it just isn't...

[Capybara007]

ice and fire staff just need more durability imo

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

 

you should know fire stunning is a thing.....
It takes advantage of the panic state mobs have so that the player can get uninterrupted damage to nearly every creature in the game.  Even some really big creatures like queens bishops rooks and knights.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Just now, Capybara007 said:

ice and fire staff just need more durability imo

But what'd be the point of having a very durable firestaff tho? 20 uses is nothing to scoff at to be fair.

[Cheggf]

Fire is a powerful CC. We have way more ways of dealing damage than we have inflicting CC so I don't think it should change.

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, DVGMedia said:

you should know fire stunning is a thing.....
It takes advantage of the panic state mobs have so that the player can get uninterrupted damage to nearly every creature in the game.  Even some really big creatures like queens bishops rooks and knights.

Yes firestunning I know that, but not a sufficient argument for only several creatures that do get panicked. If you're gonna be talking about it then firestaffs are kinda useless when you can just craft a torch. Only few mobs like that are useful to use against in general, I'm talking it being a proper DPS tool or just expand upon maybe another solution for making firestaffs and darts more proper crowd control.

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Yes firestunning I know that, but not a sufficient argument for only several creatures that do get panicked. If you're gonna be talking about it then firestaffs are kinda useless when you can just craft a torch. Only few mobs like that are useful to use against in general, I'm talking it being a proper DPS tool or just expand upon maybe another solution for making firestaffs and darts more proper crowd control.

literally every single creature panics except for superbosses minus bearger.

[Frosty_Mentos]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Fire is a powerful CC. We have way more ways of dealing damage than we have inflicting CC so I don't think it should change.

I don't see the point on not expanding on this mechanic still though. We may have damaging character, shadow cages, sleep books but as a basic tool it only does the same thing what a torch does. It sucks, really. It does fire damage too and apparently even more than a damn fire dart but not enough to be useful through a whole combat.

Just now, DVGMedia said:

literally every single creature panics except for superbosses minus bearger.

That maybe true but gimme concrete uses where we could use firestaffs/darts/torches in more combat or raids? We already know ruins raid is alright and spider queen (which honestly is no different of a boss to a treeguard in my eyes, made worse by the fact that she's even weaker against fire).

Another idea came up though, what if it weren't the firestacks but rather Night Lights would buff all fire damage sources? Kinda like a setup you gotta build if you wanna have a more fiery DPS. 

[DVGMedia]

3 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I don't see the point on not expanding on this mechanic still though. We may have damaging character, shadow cages, sleep books but as a basic tool it only does the same thing what a torch does. It sucks, really. It does fire damage too and apparently even more than a damn fire dart but not enough to be useful through a whole combat.

That maybe true but gimme concrete uses where we could use firestaffs/darts/torches in more combat or raids? We already know ruins raid is alright and spider queen (which honestly is no different of a boss to a treeguard in my eyes, made worse by the fact that she's even weaker against fire).

Okay so season really matters here too. Because any fire cc in spring can be harder to use effectively because fire radius is smaller in that season.
But in general even if you are being chased by a group of enemies one use of the fire stave may be enough to help the player get away.  Talking maybe hounds Vargglings or just some how get an army of spider warriors on you. You cant really attack those enemies with a torch  if being chased by more than 10.
Even splumonkies it could help  running around timing a slurtle slime charge to kill a group of them.  but cant light it as quickly with a torch
There are many situations you can do to have fire be effective from range.

if you really just want fire damage you can trap enemies and have a stack of ropes lit underneath. since they cant be lit but are not immune to fire They still take the damage And fire damage can do alot.

I know you probably want fire to be more unique for your main.
I think certainly willow should get a second look at her abilities so that her rework is up to par with some of the recent ones.
I would like she gets a fire to herself that doesn't cause destruction  So she could use it whenever she wants.
Because then its up to the player on how to utilize her new fire skill.


 

 

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Okay so season really matters here too. Because any fire cc in spring can be harder to use effectively because fire radius is smaller in that season.

I didn't knew that part. So the highest effect radius would be in Summer in that case? If I were let's say to fight bee queen, would that do better job in CC'ing the bees as one of more regular character or Willow?

3 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I know you probably want fire to be more unique for your main.

I've not played her in a long long time now properly, but any buffs towards fire in general would make her own immunity to it and general Willow's gameplay better. I don't only want fire to be more combat exciting only for her, but for the rest of the cast as a good fighting tool. Cages and sleep exists, fire rather feels underwhelming personally speaking.

It's more about the uses for the current tools that we've had for a lot of years now. More ways to change up meta and combat are welcome in my eyes and these are suggestions to improve upon what could have another playstyle to it - casting and ranged kind of playstyle.

[DVGMedia]

9 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I didn't knew that part. So the highest effect radius would be in Summer in that case? If I were let's say to fight bee queen, would that do better job in CC'ing the bees as one of more regular character or Willow?

Its actually only spring that affects it all other seasons have normal fire radius.
Its good and bad actually because spring makes firestunning better because then a normal player doesn't need scalemail to use it
But there are certain things that make bigger fires than normal.  Like charcoal ,big rotten fish and trees.  I have yet to check more things but i know for sure those 2 have much larger fire radius affects than most items.

 

[flamboyant wolf]

okay, how about the return of poison.

give poison this effect of quick, stacking over time damage, make poison darts like the ones in sw.

fire stays a good cc, but now there's also a good option for additional dps.

(maybe Wormwood could have some poisonous weapon/trap he could make as well?)

[Frosty_Mentos]

5 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Its actually only spring that affects it all other seasons have normal fire radius.
Its good and bad actually because spring makes firestunning better because then a normal player doesn't need scalemail to use it
But there are certain things that make bigger fires than normal.  Like charcoal ,big rotten fish and trees.  I have yet to check more things but i know for sure those 2 have much larger fire radius affects than most items.

Fair enough, but my point still stands that there's needs to be more depth to fire and magic mechanics now. Arson should be a fun thing to do to murder big monsters than being a devastating and annoying thing to handle.

Just now, skile said:

okay, how about the return of poison.

give poison this effect of quick, stacking over time damage, make poison darts like the ones in sw.

fire stays a good cc, but now there's also a good option for additional dps.

(maybe Wormwood could have some poisonous weapon/trap he could make as well?)

I mean, poison is kinda no different from fire, only that less devastating to environment. But I don't see the point to the cuz we already got several elemental effects that don't really have a matter in combat on their own. 

Though I've got a better idea for firedarts - when a target is on fire, it could instead EXPLODE on that target and do more damage? Could cost nitre instead of coal for darts, could be a lot more fun. Or just be an upgraded version of it.

Then again... I feel like darts and ranged weapons need their own rework eventually. It's very boring to do melee combat all the time and I don't know how people are okay with it being the only solution. I'm sure Klei can figure things out later on to make fighting more engaging since bosses are all about that, technicaly.

Would anything in the Constant be technically poisonous enough? Only redcaps I guess, then again they are more instant damage.

[flamboyant wolf]

5 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I mean, poison is kinda no different from fire, only that less devastating to environment. But I don't see the point to the cuz we already got several elemental effects that don't really have a matter in combat on their own.

tbh I just want to see poison return from shipwrecked eventually, it was an interesting mechanic that made you want to avoid/be careful around certain creatures, as it had lasting effects on your well being.

the effects it had on mobs were cool too, although it would probably be a bit too much for dst (slower move and attack speed along with lower damage is a pretty powerful combo).

back to fire, the explosive fire darts idea is pretty interesting.

and yeah, ranged weapons could use a touch up in general, I agree.

[gamehun20]

While it would be quite lovely to have better fire damage and what not. There is still this one mechanic where if you kill creatures on fire the drops turn to ash so even if fire staffs and darts got buffed i personally still wouldn't use them because i could have gained resources for my personal use. Maybe like small explosions for the fire items on use could work and spread a smaller amount of fire around the target

[Cloakingsumo198]

Summer should give an increase to fire damage from all sources.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

45 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

While it would be quite lovely to have better fire damage and what not. There is still this one mechanic where if you kill creatures on fire the drops turn to ash so even if fire staffs and darts got buffed i personally still wouldn't use them because i could have gained resources for my personal use. Maybe like small explosions for the fire items on use could work and spread a smaller amount of fire around the target

i think burnable loot should drop as ash and food as their cooked variants but non burneable loot should drop intact, just that would make me think about using fire more often since right now, at most, i use it rarelly for bq and just few times against bishops

[Gi-Go]

I want boomerangs to deal 50 damage and have 100 durability instead of 10. They are seriously fun when you use them as weapons except they suck. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

I want fire to spread between mobs if they touch another mob on fire allowing it to spread to tight knit entities like spiders or bees.

[benfroyobro9381]

Ignoring DPS, the Firestaff still lacks a use as it stands. As a tool, it's uses are so limited when compared to a basic torch. It's best use case is the shadow pieces gunpowder cheese.  Also, a lot of people have brought up fire as CC. Is it really worth using a firestaff for that over a cheap torch? I have yet to geuninely see someone use fire for this purpose. There's also many great methods for countering many common crowds such as Abigail, Beefalo, Catapults, etc. Though using fire would be a hilarious bee queen cheese, I kinda wanna see that. 

[Lil K]

Now that we have targeted casting, it would be cool to see firestaff having a area to light enemies on fire, like shadow prison. 

[Guille6785]

the problem with fire staff as a cc tool is that the torch exists

it definitely needs a buff IMO, I think it should be a more damage oriented fire tool (while retaining the cc)

maybe if fire from the fire staff also dealt a tiny bit of % based damage to enemies it'd be super useful against longer fights like bee queen

[Frosty_Mentos]

Me seeing all those fire staff skins yet fire staffs are one of most situational items that exists. It screamed for buffs when cosmetics came in.

People are talking about fire staff tho only tho, I still wanna know what sorta things people expect for a fire dart to do as single use igniters?