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Aggro redirected to Max


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Something that bothers me about this rework is how the aggro is redirected to Maxwell when a duelist attacks the target, every mob in the game comes after you, spiders, hounds, frogs, everything, and in many situations the duelists can't reach the target.
 

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46 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I wish the aggro was redirected even more, and enemies would only target them if they think Maxwell is unreachable. They can mess with some fights by drawing aggro away. 

You are not playing the game then cuz it's exactly the way you said, mobs come offscreen right to Maxwell. Anything else in the game including mobs and summons do not redirect aggro to the player except with Maxwell, it doesn't make sense.

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45 minutes ago, mrovoduro1 said:

You are not playing the game then cuz it's exactly the way you said, mobs come offscreen right to Maxwell. Anything else in the game including mobs and summons do not redirect aggro to the player except with Maxwell, it doesn't make sense.

This isn't true if your a certain distance away they don't switch aggro in my experience.

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2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I wish the aggro was redirected even more, and enemies would only target them if they think Maxwell is unreachable. They can mess with some fights by drawing aggro away. 

Have you played this game at all on Xbox? You practically have to be in range of being hit by the enemy mob to do anything. Maybe it’s the same on PC.. maybe it’s not- but I can tell you it’s an unpleasant gaming experience when I need to A: Be Close to my Enemy, B: Use abilities that instantly pull those enemies attention onto Me, & C: take forever canceling out of Animations/ The casting Menu while already standing near said angry & close enemy. :( 

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2 hours ago, mrovoduro1 said:

You are not playing the game then cuz it's exactly the way you said, mobs come offscreen right to Maxwell. Anything else in the game including mobs and summons do not redirect aggro to the player except with Maxwell, it doesn't make sense.

Summon duelists against something that isn't a spider. 

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Maxwell’s duelists work differently and you can exploit that to your advantage, basically keeping your minions alive for longer while fighting yourself, trapping, or scaring the mobs.

If they were Abigail 2.0 not only they would die faster, it would also make Maxwell much more boring to play as.
 

That’s what is nice about the game, if you want the summon to tank for you, you can just play Wendy instead. And if you want the minions to resolve the fight for you without interfering, Wurt can do that. There is no need to have Maxwell minions work the same as the other characters, seeing how efficient they are now if you play smart with them.

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I'm glad they do pull agro to Maxwell. This makes kiting easier as your target isn't constantly chasing down your shadow instead. That was one of the many reasons why the old duelists were so terrible. I think the agro pulling is only really a problem if you're trying to let the duelists do all the work. And that's not how they're meant to be used. You gotta get your hands dirty too.

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I don't understand the argument of some people here, I don't want my duelists to do everything for me, they attack in an area including some mobs I don't want, so dozens of mobs run after me and there is no way I can fight them all or get a chance to use other skills, and when you are running the duelists chase the mobs and sometimes can't reach them to help me.

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my personal experience, their aggro redirecting to maxwell is just chaotic. I experienced so many times running around circles, being chased by hounds, spiders, depth worms, whil my shadows keep on chasing the mobs, and it turns into a never ending chase like it's scooby doo. For people saying that I should be also fighting the enemies, it's not easy to tank 20 spiders all aggroed at you. While other follower- based characters have mobs aggro on their followers instead so you can safely get some hits on 1/2 enemies while the other enemies are fighting your followers.

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1 hour ago, BB Marioni said:

my personal experience, their aggro redirecting to maxwell is just chaotic. I experienced so many times running around circles, being chased by hounds, spiders, depth worms, whil my shadows keep on chasing the mobs, and it turns into a never ending chase like it's scooby doo. For people saying that I should be also fighting the enemies, it's not easy to tank 20 spiders all aggroed at you. While other follower- based characters have mobs aggro on their followers instead so you can safely get some hits on 1/2 enemies while the other enemies are fighting your followers.

If you circle around them and tag 1 with a blow every so often they'll make very quick work of spider hordes it's just a matter of practice. (and good connection to server) A less risky way of going about it however would be using ranged weapon like a ice staff to trigger their aggro state if you have trouble with tagging them normally.

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1 hour ago, BB Marioni said:

my personal experience, their aggro redirecting to maxwell is just chaotic. I experienced so many times running around circles, being chased by hounds, spiders, depth worms, whil my shadows keep on chasing the mobs, and it turns into a never ending chase like it's scooby doo. For people saying that I should be also fighting the enemies, it's not easy to tank 20 spiders all aggroed at you. While other follower- based characters have mobs aggro on their followers instead so you can safely get some hits on 1/2 enemies while the other enemies are fighting your followers.

maybe you should be more careful about when and were you spawn them. Is a matter of learn by trial and error, i made many mistakes because this behaviour is new but player mistakes dont mean that they should be changed. Also, if you plant to fight mobs, you should prepare some shadow mines

Also this brings some tricks like the ones shown by vito in the Klei stream

 

and if you summon many of them the enemy will end up changing aggro between shadows. They have killed bosses while i was few meters away of them fighting shadows

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4 hours ago, BB Marioni said:

my personal experience, their aggro redirecting to maxwell is just chaotic. I experienced so many times running around circles, being chased by hounds, spiders, depth worms, whil my shadows keep on chasing the mobs, and it turns into a never ending chase like it's scooby doo. For people saying that I should be also fighting the enemies, it's not easy to tank 20 spiders all aggroed at you. While other follower- based characters have mobs aggro on their followers instead so you can safely get some hits on 1/2 enemies while the other enemies are fighting your followers.

The main trick I found about the new Maxwell is that you need to outrun your enemies, enough for you to cast prison or shadow sneak (or both). Then your followers will always catch up, and you get the upper hand when fighting back as well.

That’s accomplished by either walking cane and magi, or a beefalo with normal saddle or glossamer.
If you don’t want to have gear to outrun your enemies, or don’t like beefalos, then you need to play safer and pick your fights more carefully.

So far I haven’t had any situation like that, not even while fighting 5 spider queens at the same time. I didn’t manage to kill them all in one round, but by outrunning the mob and constantly recasting the prison and the duelists I killed 2 queens in one go.
For the horde of shadow monkeys you just gather them all, rodeo them so they are all grouped together then make enough distance between them and yourself to cast prison. After that the duelists usually finish them off. This also works for bunnymen and hounds.

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1 hour ago, SullyD said:

The devs did this intentionally because they didn't want "another character with tank summons/minions" and so they chose a character with 75hp with locked gear for this ''unique mechanic''. Does it make sense? No, but okay.

What does locked gear even mean

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2 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

The main trick I found about the new Maxwell is that you need to outrun your enemies, enough for you to cast prison or shadow sneak (or both). Then your followers will always catch up, and you get the upper hand when fighting back as well.

That’s accomplished by either walking cane and magi, or a beefalo with normal saddle or glossamer.
If you don’t want to have gear to outrun your enemies, or don’t like beefalos, then you need to play safer and pick your fights more carefully.

So far I haven’t had any situation like that, not even while fighting 5 spider queens at the same time. I didn’t manage to kill them all in one round, but by outrunning the mob and constantly recasting the prison and the duelists I killed 2 queens in one go.
For the horde of shadow monkeys you just gather them all, rodeo them so they are all grouped together then make enough distance between them and yourself to cast prison. After that the duelists usually finish them off. This also works for bunnymen and hounds.

Wth you mean get enough distance between you and the enemy to cast prison? in my experience, you need to be close enough to the enemy to already draw their Aggro to cast the Prison.. and if you have duelists out- they’re smacking every nearby mob known to man.

I love how people say using the new Maxwell should be fun and challenging. I find absolutely NOTHING fun nor challenging about taking Deerclops to a field of Beefalo or Volt Golts to fight the Deerclops.. but My shadows attack the Beefalo or Goats in addition to Deerclops AND they all come chasing after me.

Not even WES has this problem- and I can play WES just Fine… 

Wendy while yes she has Abigail that does sometimes attack things you don’t want her to also has a Summon/Dismiss/Aggressive/Less Aggressive Toggle.

What this Means: Is when Abby starts attacking the Beefalo I can just Sooth her and get close enough to her to Dismiss AND since the Beefalo don’t automatically aggro onto me, they’ll drop Aggro and I can resummon Abby onto the Actual intended target.

Why does a field of bees need to chase after Maxwell because instead of helping fight the hound wave.. they smack a nearby angry bee hive I was using to help deal with the Hounds??

When I play as WES I can use the “Mobs are more likely to aggro onto you” to my ADVANTAGE because I’m the one picking which MOBS I want to attack

Maxwells Duelists however- Attack anything in the casting range and THEN those things aggro after you.

When I play Wes, I often get myself a Beefalo to Overcome his low HP But I really don’t think the former king of the constant should need to play like Wes. I don’t want to ride a Beefalo around to make sure Maxwell doesn’t die to whatever his duelists decide to smack next.

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2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wth you mean get enough distance between you and the enemy to cast prison? in my experience, you need to be close enough to the enemy to already draw their Aggro to cast the Prison.. and if you have duelists out- they’re smacking every nearby mob known to man.

You create distance between yourself and the mob you want to trap, then learn the timing of the enemy speed, and cast the prison before you see the mob standing there. When you get the timings right, you can trap anything.

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I love how people say using the new Maxwell should be fun and challenging. I find absolutely NOTHING fun nor challenging about taking Deerclops to a field of Beefalo or Volt Golts to fight the Deerclops.. but My shadows attack the Beefalo or Goats in addition to Deerclops AND they all come chasing after me.

Not even WES has this problem- and I can play WES just Fine… 

It just takes more practice.

What is different in DST to be able to do that effectively is to outrun your enemies, and cast the spells where you think the enemies are going to be, not where they are (which is close to you anyway) this will take into account the casting time, so when the spell actually takes effect, the enemies would have reached that point already and get trapped (or scared, or both). Basically like in MOBA games.

I've seen a lot of posts complaining about this same thing, and I think it's because people still has the Wendy or Wurt mindset of how to play with minions, and Maxwell does not work like that at all. The new Maxwell is more similar to the role Wickerbottom or Maxwell had at the Forge. Or even the Diablo 2 Necromancer.

 

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31 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wth you mean get enough distance between you and the enemy to cast prison? in my experience, you need to be close enough to the enemy to already draw their Aggro to cast the Prison.. and if you have duelists out- they’re smacking every nearby mob known to man.

I love how people say using the new Maxwell should be fun and challenging. I find absolutely NOTHING fun nor challenging about taking Deerclops to a field of Beefalo or Volt Golts to fight the Deerclops.. but My shadows attack the Beefalo or Goats in addition to Deerclops AND they all come chasing after me.

Not even WES has this problem- and I can play WES just Fine… 

Wendy while yes she has Abigail that does sometimes attack things you don’t want her to also has a Summon/Dismiss/Aggressive/Less Aggressive Toggle.

What this Means: Is when Abby starts attacking the Beefalo I can just Sooth her and get close enough to her to Dismiss AND since the Beefalo don’t automatically aggro onto me, they’ll drop Aggro and I can resummon Abby onto the Actual intended target.

Why does a field of bees need to chase after Maxwell because instead of helping fight the hound wave.. they smack a nearby angry bee hive I was using to help deal with the Hounds??

When I play as WES I can use the “Mobs are more likely to aggro onto you” to my ADVANTAGE because I’m the one picking which MOBS I want to attack

Maxwells Duelists however- Attack anything in the casting range and THEN those things aggro after you.

When I play Wes, I often get myself a Beefalo to Overcome his low HP But I really don’t think the former king of the constant should need to play like Wes. I don’t want to ride a Beefalo around to make sure Maxwell doesn’t die to whatever his duelists decide to smack next.

 

less than 1 min and 40 seconds to kill deerclops equiped with noob friendly items and using controller by someone who has less than 2h of playtime with controller

no more excuses

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2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 

less than 1 min and 40 seconds to kill deerclops equiped with noob friendly items and using controller by someone who has less than 2h of playtime with controller

no more excuses

 

It doesn't make any sense you post this video here, we are talking about the duelists attacking mobs like spiders, bees, hounds, frogs and the aggro being redirected to Max, we are talking about situations that are not in our control, when you create a new world for example you don't have all the resources and **** happens all the time and the aggro redirected to Max just makes everything worse than it already is. Most of the time you do not face bosses but common mobs. Stop thinking that this mechanic is good, because it's not.

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6 minutes ago, SullyD said:

 

It doesn't make any sense you post this video here, we are talking about the duelists attacking mobs like spiders, bees, hounds, frogs and the aggro being redirected to Max, we are talking about situations that are not in our control, when you create a new world for example you don't have all the resources and **** happens all the time and the aggro redirected to Max just makes everything worse than it already is. Most of the time you do not face bosses but common mobs. Stop thinking that this mechanic is good, because it's not.

if you dont like the machanic doesnt make you be right

my video was to answere a certain comment that was repeated in several topics but i can make a video of how to kill tier 3 spider dens to answere your comment and poorly performed example of how to die by spiders as maxwell

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2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if you dont like the machanic doesnt make you be right

my video was to answere a certain comment that was repeated in several topics but i can make a video of how to kill tier 3 spider dens to answere your comment and poorly performed example of how to die by spiders as maxwell

Oh let me guess, you will create a new world, disable the nightmares in the world settings, spawn spider nests and first of all use shadow sneak or cage for your summons to kill them. At least create a new solo world play the game and you will understand what people are talking about.

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8 minutes ago, SullyD said:

Oh let me guess, you will create a new world, disable the nightmares in the world settings, spawn spider nests and first of all use shadow sneak or cage for your summons to kill them. At least create a new solo world play the game and you will understand what people are talking about.

?? check the video, a nightmere just spawned when i turned off the record. I dont like examples in ideal scenarios since they show anything

im actually playing maxwell. Already killed AG, eye of terror, klaus and deerclops, spring just started and im planning to kill BQ and farm some moose goose, aslong as farmed spiders, goats, koalephants, pigs, etc plus i have turned on the setting to receive more damage so AG basically could 2 shot me while wearing log suit. I wish i had more time to played more but my computer has problems and work doesnt let me much free time but still having a blast playing, one of the best refresh/rework klei ever did

I dont see any problem with the mechanic, i just see you saying non sense and atacking when is clearly your fault for not taking advantage of the mechanic

The mechanic allows you to control where the enemy move in case you have shadow snares planted, increase shadow survival and is unique. Play wurt or use bunnymen if you wanna spam followers from a safe distand

Spoiler

image.thumb.jpeg.a702563283c258f0a903e4d5f523a38b.jpeg

 

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