Maxwell spawns with too much free stuff/power.

[Ohan]

6 starting fuel pre-refresh = 3/4,5 minions. Post-refresh = 30 minions/spells. + 20 from full codex.

This is just too much free stuff out of the gate. 

Shadow sneak and prison already make early fuel gathering easier than it ever was  for Max, the 6 starting fuel in addition to the codex which already contains 4 fuel is just so overkill and unlike any other starting load out of survivors with comparable power potential.

• 6 of the new duelists on day 1 with 20 dmg each is still waaaaaaaaaaaay better than what old max could ever do dmg wise.
• prison, sneak and gatherers are at their maximum potential right out of the gate. 

All of this adds up to a day 1 power level that just doesnt make sense.

Something has to give. 

The new Codex already contains 4 fuel and his spells have been made significantly cheaper to put it mildly AND sneak makes fuel gathering from rabbits a breeze, so the extra 6 fuel should just be removed in my opinion. 

That aside, i think it wouldve been way more interesting to unlock Shadow Sneak with prestihatitator and Shadow Prison with shadow manipulator instead of having them be available at their maximum potential straight out of the gate. But i realize thats unlikely to be changed at this point unfortunately. 

[Arcwell]

Pre-refresh minions were permanent until dismissed. Post-refresh minions last at most 4 minutes (servants) or 2 minutes (duelists), assuming they don't die or expire from their idle timer beforehand. Servants also only operate within a certain area (duelists are similar, but with slightly more range if Maxwell attacks something nearby). The reason they're so cheap is because they require multiple casts to be effective.

I'm not gonna argue the 6 starting nightmare fuel, I frankly have no opinion on it. But 5% spells is fine as is.

[Ohan]

23 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Pre-refresh minions were permanent until dismissed.

Yeah i am aware. This changes nothing about what i wrote in my original post. 

23 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I'm not gonna argue the 6 starting nightmare fuel, I frankly have no opinion on it.

Well thats actually the majority of what i discussed in the post u responded to, FYI. 

23 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

But 5% spells is fine as is.

In your opinion. You also said old prison was fine as is.

Besides, nowhere in the OP did i say it wasnt. 

[Cheggf]

A 0% Codex Umbra and 4 nmf would be the most fun I think. You get to choose how you divide your starting resources. A 100% Umbra, a 25% Umbra and magician's top hat, etc.

[GreenBowers]

43 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Pre-refresh minions were permanent until dismissed. Post-refresh minions last at most 4 minutes (servants) or 2 minutes (duelists), assuming they don't die or expire from their idle timer beforehand. Servants also only operate within a certain area (duelists are similar, but with slightly more range if Maxwell attacks something nearby). The reason they're so cheap is because they require multiple casts to be effective.

I'm not gonna argue the 6 starting nightmare fuel, I frankly have no opinion on it. But 5% spells is fine as is.

I gotta agree fully with this take.

[Ohan]

37 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

A 0% Codex Umbra and 4 nmf would be the most fun I think. You get to choose how you divide your starting resources. A 100% Umbra, a 25% Umbra and magician's top hat, etc.

Exactly! Something like this is in order in my opinion.

Currently maxwell ‘gets to have his cake and eat it too’ across the board. 

[edulopes]

not complaining Because for me that would make 0 diference, but this isnt a bit ridiculous? i know you guys want ballance and all but this is starting to look strange, i am sorry
you are complaining about 2~6 nigthmare fuel that probably will be used in favour of the team, couting that the old start permited to maxwell use it indefinitelly for serval days, until winter maybie?
just saying my opnion on the topic, but that is strange, for me at least, in the end they remove the shadow equipment already+ removed his 20 san from his "starting kit" to mere nigthmare fuel on DST
then okay they gave us the new skills, but overall in an early game perspective, gatherer Beta maxwell is very hindered compared to live maxwell just saying those nigthmare is good for everyone, dont need to look every little detail on the poor maxwell to nerf it
it is looking like personal at this point

[Dragonboooorn]

1 minute ago, edulopes said:

not complaining Because for me that would make 0 diference, but this isnt a bit ridiculous? i know you guys want ballance and all but this is starting to look strange, i am sorry
you are complaining about 2~6 nigthmare fuel that probably will be used in favour of the team, couting that the old start permited to maxwell use it indefinitelly for serval days, until winter maybie?
just saying my opnion on the topic, but that is strange, for me at least, in the end they remove the shadow equipment already+ removed his 20 san from his "starting kit" to mere nigthmare fuel on DST
then okay they gave us the new skills, but overall in an early game perspective, gatherer Beta maxwell is very hindered compared to live maxwell just saying those nigthmare is good for everyone, dont need to look every little detail on the poor maxwell to nerf it
it is looking like personal at this point

Relax, nerfing Maxwell has became mainstream.

Its like eating eggs on your breakfast. Nothing unusual

[Gi-Go]

This is the most absurd complaint about Maxwell I have ever seen.

He starts with nightmare fuel? You can get nightmare fuel in the first 10 seconds of the game. 

[edulopes]

and more, havent most people that asked for maxwell nerf not think about new players? this game isnt about only casual and veteran players you know? maxwell is already hard enough to those not prepared for him

myself an veteran would have some dificulty to knowing the tiers and damage if not by getting here day 1

[SullyD]

I have no doubt that Klei will nerf more. Rlx.

[Cheggf]

9 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Relax, nerfing Maxwell has became mainstream.

Its like eating eggs on your breakfast. Nothing unusual

Maxwell has received nothing but buffs with the patches.

[ZelosCharm]

Having a good early game is not problem to be fixed , its a character trait and breaks nothing imo. The nightmare fuel he starts with is not something hard to gather early either, starting with fuel is not a huge upside for maxwell its just a minor convenience. Even if he starts with 0 fuel his early game will always be really good in the state he is in right now.
But If we are going down this road shouldn't you be more concerned about wanda starting with time pieces ? since they are much more expensive compared to some nightmare fuel and she start the game with multiple.


 

[Ohan]

30 minutes ago, edulopes said:

not complaining Because for me that would make 0 diference, but this isnt a bit ridiculous?

The amount fuel maxwell spawns with and needs to cast his very powerful spells should matter.

If the amount of fuel u get is negligible, could that mean the costs are negligible? 

[edulopes]

1 minute ago, Ohan said:

The amount fuel maxwell spawns with and needs to cast his very powerful spells should matter.

If the amount of fuel u get is negligible, could that mean the costs are negligible? 

no not at all, the problem is, i farm too hard all stuff so i have in stock 1 DF chest full of nigthmare fuel JUST for maxwell, and i farm it every day  via bunnyman, so is just an matter of preparing yourself for the costs

[Ohan]

1 minute ago, ZelosCharm said:

But If we are going down this road shouldn't you be more concerned about wanda starting with time pieces ? since they are much more expensive compared to some nightmare fuel and she start the game with multiple.

You should look up the other materials and research station wanda needs to do anything of use with those time pieces before you make this comparison i think. 

[Cheggf]

5 minutes ago, ZelosCharm said:

Having a good early game is not problem to be fixed , its a character trait and breaks nothing imo. The nightmare fuel he starts with is not something hard to gather early either, starting with fuel is not a huge upside for maxwell its just a minor convenience. Even if he starts with 0 fuel his early game will always be really good in the state he is in right now.
But If we are going down this road shouldn't you be more concerned about wanda starting with time pieces ? since they are much more expensive compared to some nightmare fuel and she start the game with multiple.


 

Time pieces don't do anything.

[edulopes]

i am not implying that i am an great player, but i am an very experiencied one, so i always have much more than i need for everything, heck i can kite all bosses with wanda, but why? is faster to use spiced wanda and face tank with full inventory of armor  and clocks

4 minutes ago, Ohan said:

You should look up the other materials and research station wanda needs to do anything of use with those time pieces before you make this comparison i think. 

the only expensive one is the teleportation one, once you get the first walrus tusk is GG just mass farm it, alarming clock is just op, at the cost of going on the borders of the ruins you dont even need to get inside them, the backstep is an free wortox/ wheller dodge,
and with the new attack fireworks farming tusks is easy than ever... so they are CHEAP

 

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Time pieces don't do anything.

so never do any craft with them use wanda with only starting clock my man

your arguments are starting to look a little enraged, they are ending? because they are becoming unfounded, or you cant find anymore place to ask for an new maxwell nerf?

[Cheggf]

7 minutes ago, edulopes said:

so never do any craft with them use wanda with only starting clock my man

Are you suggesting that Maxwell doesn't start with the Codex Umbra and has to craft it? I think that's a bit extreme.

[edulopes]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

Are you suggesting that Maxwell doesn't start with the Codex Umbra and has to craft it? I think that's a bit extreme.

thinking about this question, maybie is an good idea, i have to read the comics again to see if maxwell had the codex with him when he fell, if not fine by me
if yes so no maxwell should have his codex to start

[Gi-Go]

1 minute ago, edulopes said:

thinking about this question, maybie is an good idea, i have to read the comics again to see if maxwell had the codex with him when he fell, if not fine by me
if yes so no maxwell should have his codex to start

Codex shouldn't even be a craftable item. It's a one of a kind book. It's craftable only because dst is a forgiving game. 

[edulopes]

Maxwell got his codex with him, for me it is like the idea i had for his rework on this post he have it but some of his power( prision one) is hindered because he lost some pages, and you can re make then in the archives

 

[Gi-Go]

21 minutes ago, Ohan said:

The amount fuel maxwell spawns with and needs to cast his very powerful spells should matter.

What are you going to do with this starting nightmare fuel? Kill fuelweaver on day 1?

[Ohan]

2 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

What are you going to do with this starting nightmare fuel? Kill fuelweaver on day 1?

Why does wurt not spawn with all the royal tapestry materials? What is she gonna do? Kill FW on day 1? 

[edulopes]

2 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

It's craftable only because dst is a forgiving game. 

truth, but well if the guy want that badly to nerf maxwell let him have it, i am trying to be justified to every player type if he wants to nerf maxwell for the sake of it, fine by me, it would not affect the grand scheme of things that

i am tired of some people of this forum looking at some excuses, and in the end just making themselves looking "dumb" when their arguments end, or keep repeting the same arguments when i and most people were able to see the grand sheme of things and looking in a way that would not be OP and would be easy enough for all type of players even that they know that what they are asking is not necessary and then just dosent want an change in the meta

maxwell is still just an gatherer, wanda is still objectically better than him, i will use him in the bosses that i find worth it, after killing them all with wanda because is just easier.
simply as that in the end it always end in wanda  

Just now, Ohan said:

Why does wurt not spawn with all the royal tapestry materials? What is she gonna do? Kill FW on day 1? 

well she in all worlds you start with at least 4 merms, or more in the end she have's hers personal body guards day one, you just have to look for them