Tusk droprate

[Pig Princess]

33 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I agree with you but i don't think that drop rate should be changed

I never said I would like 100% chance of drop. I would like more ways to mitigate RNG, since RNG can be designed interestingly or not. Not interesting RNG is when player just grinds and/or uses spell named "save->load" (known as "rollback" in DST), interesting RNG is when player can do something about being unlucky like go to the grotto if no totally normal trees/treeguards spawned or find substitute to craft that uses living log (ham bat, glass cutter instead of dark sword) or can choose slightly different item to fullfill the same goal (club + magi instead of cane when it comes to speed tresholds for kiting bosses). Or even example from DS vanilla: if one is unlucky and beefalo horn didn't drop, one could combine that whool with silk and craft winter hat; winter hat is clearly worse at insulation, but it's better than nothing at all, it doesn't force player to use other equipment slot, change strategy much or acquire entirely different set of resources, and it also has small sanity regen on the flip side (although in DST I feel like there is thermal stone meta because of how long trees burn, thermal stone glowing while very hot (unlike in RoG), and even though beefalo hat is technically better at insulation one is forced to stay near heat source entire time instead of just dropping thermal and doing something else in the area meanwhile).

33 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

Hostile flare helps if you are basing too far away from mac tusk camp and for you to get 6 kills.

Still one could get same 6 kills while travelling on beefalo or basing relatively near camp, and hosile flares have chance to spawn deerclops, which means time saved for travelling to camp would be lost on killing deerclops (especially relevant for solo player or 2 players who don't need that much eyeballs in the 1st year). Hostile flare also doesn't improve chances of getting tusk, so it's a stretch to say that they help. The only real solution I've seen is when 1 person focuses on mac tusks and does nothing else, and others play normally; problem is that nobody wants to be farming slave.

33 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

So 3.125% or 6.25% chance for you not to get walking cane, these odds aren't bad at all

Still not 0%, and after a lot of playthroughs one just has to run out of luck. Which means waiting whole year between being able to kill Fuelweaver. Sure, one can find other interesting things to do, but that's bad excuse for letting it stay as is, especially if one isn't really interested in Celestial Champion quest line, farming or just wants to play with Fuelweaver drops in early to midgame.

[Cloakingsumo198]

Winter island when

[ZombieDupe]

On 11/4/2022 at 4:42 PM, 00petar00 said:

While i can understand that you think that all RNG is bad and i can agree that bad RNG design exists there is good RNG too, i don't find it frustrating if i kill Klaus and don't get Krampus Sack because you shouldn't be expecting it to drop and get sad about it when it is 10%, if you kill the him 11+ times and don't get it at that point i can see how you can get annoyed but if you take into consideration that there are times when you get it on the first kill it is fair that luck isn't always on your side.

Do you feel like everyone should get Krampus Sack? What you don't understand is that It is just an added benefit, you shouldn't expect it to drop unless you are planning to play the on the same world for a while so there is no need to be frustrated about it.

Depends entirely what you would classify as RNG. In loot tables, where there is a chance you'll get nothing? Absolutely. Where there's a chance you'll get something of equivalent value instead? Depends. Random number generation, as in the process? Absolutely not. In programming you will rely on this for a multitude of things. Item drops like this are not a good example of it being used for many reasons, some of which I've highlighted before.

And yes, I do think everyone should have a krampus sack eventually. Everyone already DOEs get a krampus sack eventually. It's just that it's tedious to do it. It always is a one-and-done deal, as it should be, but the effort to do it differs drastically with RNG and at median and mean, will be too tedious to ever want to do so. You do it because you have to, but it's not done as such that it's fun, engaging and justifies the effort. Have krampus as well as Klaus drop it 100%, no more need for krampus farms. If you want however, there are nuanced ways you can make Krampus itself a more clever mob to fight or deal with, much like how Klei made changes to the hound attacks, where it's not exactly viable to cheese and avoid them and the difficulty curve on the attacks was smoothed out.

On 11/4/2022 at 4:42 PM, 00petar00 said:

You didn't even understand my point, i never said that all boss loot or majority of the current items should have low drop rate. The idea is that if we had like 5-10 items that are useful like Krampus Sack with similar drop rate and if they were added to bosses that you don't kill more than once, it would give us a reason to go after the bosses for more kills, currently you only usually kill Bee Queen and Dragonfly multiple times for healing and gems and sometimes Ancient Fuelweaver if you are playing with people, as a solo player there is too much thulecite and you can dupe it with green gems from DF anyway.

What i am saying is that if the current bosses that aren't killed multiple times because you get everything you need out of them on the first kill had another item added to their loot table with 10% drop rate, it would be much more interesting to everyone that enjoys these fights.

No one is forcing you to play the game for any amount of time but why shouldn't there exist something for players that want to play for longer? Boss loot in general isn't required for you to play the game. Some people don't like fighting bosses and just build or just use cheese methods to kill them.

You shouldn't need to kill bosses multiple times. It gets dull very quickly, especially considering most bosses have massive health pools that are not only boring as is to deal with, but are terribly designed fights. I keep giving Ancient Fuelweaver as an example of a good fight, and not that this game necessarily needs to focus so much on boss fights, it very much would be better off focusing more on things outside of combat anyway. You will be redoing fights all the time if you keep playing all the time if you keep resetting or joining new worlds anyway anyway. When luck is on your side in a small RNG pool, it just means you get to do that repetitive thing one less time too. Another, almost equally as irritating approach would be to make an item cost in some way multiples of a resource to such a degree that it requires doing the same specific thing over and over again. RNG taken out of the equation, but still generally just as, if not more tedious. Why do you even think one player should, in a single run, in a multiplayer game with resource scarcity as is mind you, have to repeat a task to the point where it gets irritatingly boring? If it's to inflate gameplay hours, I already stated that it's an inherently terrible thing that takes a lot of fun out of games, and this is no exception.

[Cheggf]

The only issue with tusks is that half the worlds have 4x as many walrus camps as the other half. There are no other issues and were this one issue addressed the tusks would be fine. 

[ShakerGER]

I legit alsways thought it's 25%. 50% is more than generous enough.

[00petar00]

6 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Depends entirely what you would classify as RNG. In loot tables, where there is a chance you'll get nothing? Absolutely. Where there's a chance you'll get something of equivalent value instead? Depends. Random number generation, as in the process? Absolutely not. In programming you will rely on this for a multitude of things. Item drops like this are not a good example of it being used for many reasons, some of which I've highlighted before.

It just depends on the player, I really enjoy RNG and in most cases I find it a good thing as I like grinding and it gives more value to the loot.

7 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

And yes, I do think everyone should have a krampus sack eventually. Everyone already DOEs get a krampus sack eventually. It's just that it's tedious to do it. It always is a one-and-done deal, as it should be, but the effort to do it differs drastically with RNG and at median and mean, will be too tedious to ever want to do so. You do it because you have to, but it's not done as such that it's fun, engaging and justifies the effort. Have krampus as well as Klaus drop it 100%, no more need for krampus farms. If you want however, there are nuanced ways you can make Krampus itself a more clever mob to fight or deal with, much like how Klei made changes to the hound attacks, where it's not exactly viable to cheese and avoid them and the difficulty curve on the attacks was smoothed out.

You have a very skewed view of the playerbase if you believe that everyone gets a krampus sack, I don't get it for at least half of my playthoughs and I am one of the players that has literally thousands of hours on DST alone without counting DS, most of the players will never see krampus sack even if we ignore just beginners or players that can't survive a year on their own.

7 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

You shouldn't need to kill bosses multiple times. It gets dull very quickly, especially considering most bosses have massive health pools that are not only boring as is to deal with, but are terribly designed fights. I keep giving Ancient Fuelweaver as an example of a good fight, and not that this game necessarily needs to focus so much on boss fights, it very much would be better off focusing more on things outside of combat anyway. You will be redoing fights all the time if you keep playing all the time if you keep resetting or joining new worlds anyway anyway. When luck is on your side in a small RNG pool, it just means you get to do that repetitive thing one less time too. Another, almost equally as irritating approach would be to make an item cost in some way multiples of a resource to such a degree that it requires doing the same specific thing over and over again. RNG taken out of the equation, but still generally just as, if not more tedious. Why do you even think one player should, in a single run, in a multiplayer game with resource scarcity as is mind you, have to repeat a task to the point where it gets irritatingly boring? If it's to inflate gameplay hours, I already stated that it's an inherently terrible thing that takes a lot of fun out of games, and this is no exception.

I can agree with you that I don't really want or should need to kill most of the bosses multiple times but there's nothing wrong with a boss having a valuable reusable drop like gems or royal jelly that gives you a reason to kill them on repeat. It does seem easier if you pick a combat oriented character for you to find doing this valuable and it is also possible with more methods available to you in the game.

Currently there is not much to do in the late game, so I don't see anything wrong with RNG or usable/perishable items existing as a boss drop. I don't enjoy resetting worlds so oftren and I prefer playing long term on the same world when im not doing some specific run. I can't really see how it can be boring when drop chance is 50% for tusk and 1% for krampus sack, literally the only item in the game that is somewhat difficult to obtain unless you make a bird farm setup with Wicker.

I've played so many other games that have much harsher drop rates for items and I tend to enjoy that more as I don't like the idea of resetting so often while some players may say that this is artificially increasing playtime, it seems like they just want everything served to them on a plate when there's nothing wrong with this especially if these items aren't required for you to play or enjoy the game as it is, there's nothing you can say that will convince me that every player needs to have krampus sack.

[LeafyFly]

13 hours ago, Cheggf said:

The only issue with tusks is that half the worlds have 4x as many walrus camps as the other half. There are no other issues and were this one issue addressed the tusks would be fine. 

Maybe "The Hunters" should become a fixed biome.

[Cheggf]

11 hours ago, ShakerGER said:

I legit alsways thought it's 25%. 50% is more than generous enough.

25% is the cool hat. 

[Waynel]

RNG is still a major aspect of Don't Starve 

[HowlVoid]

Add a rare tusked fish that spawns in winter.

Anyone who missed out on one can fish for it for the rest of winter. Maybe with a similar 50% drop rate.

[jurasR]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:16 PM, Pig Princess said:

and/or uses spell named "save->load" (known as "rollback" in DST)

if you like to cheat that way, that's your business. You might as well use a "spell" "MOD" or some other "cheat".

[Skelewar]

Didn't read whole thread so maybe this has been said: I don't think there needs to be a drawback to making tusks a 100% drop rate.

Tusks are used to craft THREE THINGS

1. walking cane which is a huge QoL item, but any character only needs one
2. beefalo brush, in which the tusk isn't even the rarer component
3. Wanda-specific watch

So why is it even 50%? To preserve the "excitement" of getting one to drop? I don't know about you but I only even feel relief that I don't have to endure the grueling task of camping out next to an igloo all season. Play on public servers and you'll see that every winter the entire server all comes together next to the walrus camp and just waits for the opportunity to be the lucky winner who picks up the potential walrus tusk. Literally nothing gets done because no one wants to be caught without a cane for the next three seasons. The way I see it, with winter and clops being the kind of "barrier of entry" for new players, a walking cane is a QoL prize for surviving the season and all my frustrations from games where I didn't get the cane and then I just sit there like "Okay well now I will be unavoidably inefficient for the next three quarters of this game." have come out in this post. Realistically, what game-breaking abuse would occur if the cane was assured? I feel like you guys are acting like a walking cane is this rare gift but literally nobody plays this game without one in their hotbar.

[Bird Up]

i think there should just be an item that costs 2 tusks, so they can be duped with construction amulet, and deconstruction staff. that could solve a lot of the tusk supply issues

[ThymeSpirit]

Tusks are used not only in walking canes which are a neccesity in the late game, but also in character specific crafts for Wanda. Grinding a rare time-gated mob for 2 hours is not fun and should not be an intended way to play the game. I think the tusk's drop rate should be 100%, with the fight made more difficult to make up for this.

[Wonz]

3 hours ago, ThymeSpirit said:

Tusks are used not only in walking canes which are a neccesity in the late game, but also in character specific crafts for Wanda. Grinding a rare time-gated mob for 2 hours is not fun and should not be an intended way to play the game. I think the tusk's drop rate should be 100%, with the fight made more difficult to make up for this.

Tbh i would rather have this problem where they're necessity solved. Having to swap them everytime boss attacks during fight isn't making good experience.

[ZombieDupe]

On 11/21/2022 at 8:03 AM, 00petar00 said:

It just depends on the player, I really enjoy RNG and in most cases I find it a good thing as I like grinding and it gives more value to the loot.

If you enjoy playing in a world where you don't have to do anything anyway and are set for eternity with little maintenance, then you can still have that with dropchances increased and rebalanced for more of other players to enjoy the game and get rewards that respect their time. You can do the same grind methods if you like, you'll just have more loot than you'll know what to do with by the end. I explained to you the design and balancing issues at hand with the current RNG setup at least 2 times, and I won't do so again. If you don't care for it, then don't argue against it when you clearly don't play like the people who take issue with it, which will be players with your hour count but playing more in pubs or with multiple other players, and not just alone and secluded, as it appears is what you are doing.

On 11/21/2022 at 8:03 AM, 00petar00 said:

You have a very skewed view of the playerbase if you believe that everyone gets a krampus sack, I don't get it for at least half of my playthoughs and I am one of the players that has literally thousands of hours on DST alone without counting DS, most of the players will never see krampus sack even if we ignore just beginners or players that can't survive a year on their own.

Gets a sack by what point? The most guaranteed way you can get a sack is farming birds as Wickerbottom. Lots of setup but it will go a long way. Additionally, killing Klaus every winter. Additionally killing loads of catcoons every other season or so, if you have enough dens. Also after enabling multiples of full moons (also possible to do as Wicker via the Lunar Grimoire books), you can kill Glommer every night. You can not care about the issue if you want, but the fact is, all these methods are there, and will get you a sack, but are a grind, and not available for 2 or 3 dozen players besides having the game world go on for thousands of days. By around day 1000 or 2000, with enough good players regularly around, if you've played for a while, you will have a Krampus sack until the world is reset.

On 11/21/2022 at 8:03 AM, 00petar00 said:

I can agree with you that I don't really want or should need to kill most of the bosses multiple times but there's nothing wrong with a boss having a valuable reusable drop like gems or royal jelly that gives you a reason to kill them on repeat. It does seem easier if you pick a combat oriented character for you to find doing this valuable and it is also possible with more methods available to you in the game.

Currently there is not much to do in the late game, so I don't see anything wrong with RNG or usable/perishable items existing as a boss drop. I don't enjoy resetting worlds so oftren and I prefer playing long term on the same world when im not doing some specific run. I can't really see how it can be boring when drop chance is 50% for tusk and 1% for krampus sack, literally the only item in the game that is somewhat difficult to obtain unless you make a bird farm setup with Wicker.

I've played so many other games that have much harsher drop rates for items and I tend to enjoy that more as I don't like the idea of resetting so often while some players may say that this is artificially increasing playtime, it seems like they just want everything served to them on a plate when there's nothing wrong with this especially if these items aren't required for you to play or enjoy the game as it is, there's nothing you can say that will convince me that every player needs to have krampus sack.

For consumable resources, I think it's fair for mini-boss types, since they would be much easier to kill more often and fun intermediately, both as practice and in general. I found it to be the case with the Spider Queen, whether you fight it alone or with others and don't try to tank it and dip your armor durability, though there can tend to be too many spawning around a single area if there's loads of tier 3 nests. Easy or a fun challenge for us, but unreasonable for any new or mid level player to deal with. But spider overpopulation/complete extermination is a whole another topic in and of itself. Bee Queen could be made more of a mini-boss, much like the tree guards or the lord of the fruitflies as well. More beans for more players, more BQ crowns for more players, more honey combs for more players and more bundling wrap blueprints available (unless some part of that were to be changed), all for the same amount of effort as now, or a bit less so.

"Currently there is not much to do in the late game", then there should be more fun things implemented in the late game, instead of content being dragged out. Again, the time investment does not justify the content engagement, it is tedium maxed out. And not everyone has those hundreds of spare hours to invest in a game like this, or any game, like you regardless. Can you imagine having a work-life balance and still playing hundreds of hours of this per month, in addition to other games and having time for other hobbies and entertainment media? Maybe if you play this game as a job, but that's not gonna be most people, is it? Something's gonna have to be sacrificed, there are only so many hours in a day and a week.

[JaxckLl]

On 10/29/2022 at 6:36 PM, themightyone said:

Seems like most of my worlds just get 1 McTusk spawn. Wouldn't mind if they kept the drop rates the same but made each world have 2 McTusks at minimum even if on different ends of the map.

This is the better solution. That, or force spawning of the triple MacTusk biome.