Make game multiplayer

[Mastermindx]

22 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

you're still looking at far too much data to transfer over the network to another machine

Technically, if the gameplay is deterministic, it is not true. You'd technically only need to transfer the initial state and the player input, the client could basically just "replay" all of it client side.  

So all the server would technically need to do is stream data like
- "Player X added dig task at cell X,Y"
- "Server started tick X"
- "Player X removed "Construct Plastic Ladder" at cell X,Y"
- "Server started tick X"
Everything else can (probably) already be computed by the client. You wouldn't need to tell the clients "Cell (x,y) need to exchange 13423 DTU with cell (x-1, y)" because the clients would already know they have to.

Were there some optimization that would make the game non deterministic though?  I wouldn't be surprised.

Now...  Am I saying ONI multiplayer would be a good idea?  Nope.  I don't see how that could end up being enjoyable. I think the best way to make ONI "multiplayer" is to stream your game to your friend and you all decide together what to do next, and it comes at no extra development cost. I think there would be very, very, very little gain at allowing multiple client/input.

But saying "it can't be done because it's too much data" is only true it the engine is not deterministic.

[KittenIsAGeek]

59 minutes ago, Mastermindx said:

Were there some optimization that would make the game non deterministic though?  I wouldn't be surprised.

There are, and you can easily prove it.  When your Printing Pod has a production available, click on it and see what it is. Then save, quit, and reload.  Then check the pod's items again.  They will be different.  That is the easy way.   I've also seen things like the saturn critter trap activate differently on a map where I re-loaded 20 cycles back and ran it again. On the second run, a bee dropped waste which turned into a block instead of debris on top of the critter trap and disabled it before a larva could get caught.  It was the same map running the same 20 cycles, and in both cases the hive area was completely sealed off by the biome's natural tiles, and protected by abyssalite from the base's thermal activity.

This suggests that the game is non-deterministic and does incorporate randomness outside of how you control your dupes or build your base.

[Zombie Dude]

Don't know how the game would look after a Multiplayer update. I don't have anyone to play Oxygen Not Included: Multiplayer with me.

[pether]

1 hour ago, Zombie Dude said:

Don't know how the game would look after a Multiplayer update. I don't have anyone to play Oxygen Not Included: Multiplayer with me.

IF Klei decided to make multiplayer (and it is confirmed they won't), the game would look exactly the same. ONI MP would need to be another title, redesigned and reimplemented from scratch to allow it for multiplayer. There would be so many changes on so many levels it would be easier to do this way than bothering with making updates to existing code

[Mastermindx]

On 9/2/2022 at 12:55 AM, KittenIsAGeek said:

When your Printing Pod has a production available, click on it and see what it is. Then save, quit, and reload.  Then check the pod's items again.

That doesn't prove the game is not deterministic, that proves the game doesn't save everything to the save file (Including previously rolled printing pod items and quite likely the random seed too).

What I was talking about was more along the line of : Given a very specific situation, on a very specific tick of a very specific game, a dupe could decide to do a different task next, depending on the speed of your processor.

 

[Ntr1cate]

56 minutes ago, Mastermindx said:

Given a very specific situation, on a very specific tick of a very specific game, a dupe could decide to do a different task next, depending on the speed of your processor

Yes, the game skips some calculations if your cpu can't keep up, generally the game tries to slow down to compensate even if the speed is set to a much higher speed but ultimately it will chose to skip or delay certain calculations in favour of the next calculation depending on how bad a potato the person is running.

This can result in some tasks being calculated after a few seconds or not at all (if your potato is so bad the code jumbles and sends pacu into a paralysis state until they die ), If you are really unsure if your duplicants are lagging behind, the best thing to do is pause the game to let it catch however if the code continues to break, it will be necessary to restart the game, if it is still broken then a bug report needs to be filed.

[gabberworld]

5 hours ago, Ntr1cate said:

Yes, the game skips some calculations if your cpu can't keep up, generally the game tries to slow down to compensate even if the speed is set to a much higher speed but ultimately it will chose to skip or delay certain calculations in favour of the next calculation depending on how bad a potato the person is running.

This can result in some tasks being calculated after a few seconds or not at all (if your potato is so bad the code jumbles and sends pacu into a paralysis state until they die ), If you are really unsure if your duplicants are lagging behind, the best thing to do is pause the game to let it catch however if the code continues to break, it will be necessary to restart the game, if it is still broken then a bug report needs to be filed.

if you pacu and pc cant handle then you can also make backup food supply, by drop food to water

[Ntr1cate]

4 hours ago, gabberworld said:

if you pacu and pc cant handle then you can also make backup food supply, by drop food to water

Hammer -> PC = is better

Solves all the problems, uhh kinda.

[gabberworld]

14 minutes ago, Ntr1cate said:

Hammer -> PC = is better

Solves all the problems, uhh kinda.

 

[Ntr1cate]

6 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

 

Indeed, many solutions to fix the problem, quality stuff!

[babba]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:53 AM, cpy said:

 

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes

I love the video dear @cpy