Remove booster shot mechanic, buff some resurrection methods

[ZombieDupe]

Too many new players keep asking how to restore max health after resurrecting from death, and the injector, which requires alchemy engine none-the-less, makes no sense in this regard and isn't something anyone can just figure out on their own. For all intents and purposes, it's permanent max health lost, which is awful for learning anything. It's also unfair how Wanda gets no such penalty while other characters do.

It's bad enough that the resurrection methods in survival mode are extremely scarce, but now you want to penalize players for dying, something that can happen to them in the matter of seconds right after resurrection. Just remove it from telltale heart and portal resurrection (endless mode only), every other method does not put the penalty on them.

You may also want to investigate some boost for the effigy as players will just use it up after someone else placed it. Since it takes up so much space, it makes sense to be shared, but it's annoying when someone else just uses p your effigy and does nothing to place one in its place.

Being able to press a button to resurrect at portal in endless mode instantly instead of having to walk to there would be great for people to not get bored traversing to there every single time. You have the mechanic set for attuned effigies, why not this?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

isn't something anyone can just figure out on their own

all my friends and i knew the use for the item without checking the wiki back in the day when the recipe used mosquito sack

7 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

makes no sense in this regard

for me makes sense

8 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

It's bad enough that the resurrection methods in survival mode are extremely scarce, but now you want to penalize players for dying

that is the point of dying, beinf punished(?) also resurrecting is as simple as having grass and spider glands, for that it applies a health penalty, because is so damm easy to revive others

[ZombieDupe]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

that is the point of dying, beinf punished(?) also resurrecting is as simple as having grass and spider glands, for that it applies a health penalty, because is so damm easy to revive others

It isn't as simple. You need to get your stuff back with nothing on you, or very little on you at times. Grass and gland + 40 health of another player also becomes costly while everyone around is dying constantly and is incapable of doing much. And because of this it takes way too long to learn anything, you have no time to stand around and look at stuff.

You probably have had experience with the game prior or looked at guides or got some tips elsewhere for other stuff before, so if you figured it out without asking along with your friends, you are lucky. I see constantly people ask about it and it's really annoying.

The mechanic is punishing for no reason too.

[Just-guy]

3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

isn't something anyone can just figure out on their own.

The description of the item says: "Boosts your declining max health." , which is self-explanatory.

[goatt]

The game has headed to making it easier or more friendly to new players, it would make sense to make fixing black bar easier.

But not to make the recipe easier, instead, I suggest game should give hints about how to fix it, even tho normally, they just ask other people in the same server.

But I think it should be something devs consider about new-player-friendly experience. Because op does have a point, accessing booster shot might be more obscure than expected. DST are a lot more friendly and casual than DS in early game, it even considered in-game tutorial, if i remember correctly. Booster shot can be hinted to players who have black bars but have never crafted booster shot before. It can be done in game or in loading screen prioritizing that particular knowledge.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

The game is heading to making it easier or more friendly to new players, it would make sense to make fixing black bar easier.

But not to make the recipe easier, instead, I suggest game should give hints about how to fix it, even tho normally, they just ask other people in the same server.

But I think it should be something devs consider about new-player-friendly experience.

the new crafting menu makes it easier than the previous one. "Oh i have capped hp, how can i fix that?" lets search in the filter with a heart instead of locking throw 423242 survival recipes in the previous menu. If before wasnt a big deal to know it, now is so simple

[goatt]

@ArubaroBeefalo I just edited my post, I went out in the middle of the editing, i just finished the editing. You reply took place 0.1 sec before I hit "save" button.

 

13 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the new crafting menu makes it easier than the previous one. "Oh i have capped hp, how can i fix that?" lets search in the filter with a heart instead of locking throw 423242 survival recipes in the previous menu. If before wasnt a big deal to know it, now is so simple

Then I would suggestion the search function have better results for hot keywords, especially for new players, instead of exact name-matching. It will again, improve the problem that op suggested.

Note, I support op's cause, but don't support op's particular suggested solution.

I believe there are always ways to improve.

[Spino43]

dst's reviving mechanic is really forgiving compared to ds version. I am not sure if it even needs a buff anymore.

Also, Wanda is literally losing age every second with only one source of healing, adding age restriction on her (sound weird lol) might be a bit too brutal.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 hours ago, Spino43 said:

dst's reviving mechanic is really forgiving compared to ds version. I am not sure if it even needs a buff anymore.

Also, Wanda is literally losing age every second with only one source of healing, adding age restriction on her (sound weird lol) might be a bit too brutal.

and most people who play wanda dont relly on that noob friendly reviving methods like portal or telltale hearts...

[ZombieDupe]

20 hours ago, Just-guy said:

The description of the item says: "Boosts your declining max health." , which is self-explanatory.

It's also locked behind alchemy engine, so unless you are standing next to a science machine, you won't even see it in the crafting menu. That's something Klei should also address. I made this suggestion a while back to address this, but seems Klei completely ignored it.

Even still, it's a useless mechanic that's just there to punish you further for no reason in particular. If it's to stay, it should be asked, does it make the game more interesting and fun, or just drag it out? I'm leaning towards the latter for the booster shot and lower max hp mechanic more and more despite me rarely ever dying in the game at this point in time, and I end up never even needing to craft that thing.

If there are ways to improve this mechanic to make it interesting and fun in a challenging way, I'm all ears. But at least for now, just like the disease mechanic, I think it should be retired as it just makes the game worse for people.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

It's also locked behind alchemy engine, so unless you are standing next to a science machine, you won't even see it in the crafting menu.

settings-->show all recipes

2 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Even still, it's a useless mechanic that's just there to punish you further for no reason in particular

how is it useless if is punishing you? do you want a punish for dying to be useful?

[ZombieDupe]

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

settings-->show all recipes

I don't even know what that does, you expect newbies to be able to cycle through 3 dozen settings that have no visual indicators next to them either? None even looks at the controls menu, let alone this.

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

how is it useless if is punishing you? do you want a punish for dying to be useful?

It's a pointless punishment that just penalizes players for no reason. You punish the player for dying, you punish others for resurrecting them, you punish them for being resurrected. How is this not too much?

[Notecja]

Many new players I knew were just using "resurrection in fire pit mod", which workerd without bigger penalties. But I wouldn't like to see it in base game.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

I don't even know what that does, you expect newbies to be able to cycle through 3 dozen settings that have no visual indicators next to them either? None even looks at the controls menu, let alone this.

they are noobs not handicaped

15 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

It's a pointless punishment that just penalizes players for no reason. You punish the player for dying, you punish others for resurrecting them, you punish them for being resurrected. How is this not too much?

because it isnt and if they can manage it is because they need to play more from 0, for that there is a countdown to destroy the world. You are suggesting to change, even more, how the franchise work

noobs played DS and worked fine, DST bring a lot more facilities to revive to dont interrupt the multiplayer experience but you want even more facilities and 0 punishment from diying lmao. At that point simply use godmode

[ZombieDupe]

19 hours ago, Notecja said:

Many new players I knew were just using "resurrection in fire pit mod", which workerd without bigger penalties. But I wouldn't like to see it in base game.

There is the Endless mode, which would provide a similar effect already, except with the portal. A button to instantly resurrect there when dead would help save travel time as well and to not make players bored making the trip. There would be no need for using the mod if people just knew about it, but there is a lot too hidden that way too many don't notice.

[Just-guy]

41 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

A button to instantly resurrect there when dead would help save travel time as well and to not make players bored making the trip.

That's why the Meat Effigy exists.

[Bumber64]

The punishment for dying is... to make it easier to die again. Repeat until you have 20 max health. (The cause of death might be hounds at the spawn portal, for added fun.)

The booster shot costs 8 rot, which is kind of a pain if you haven't figured out farming yet and are subsisting on the food you'd want to turn into rot. Dealing with swarms of bees at low health before learning to kite multiple mobs isn't great either.

Would rather the debuff be something besides health, but I'm not sure what.

[JustExo]

On 8/7/2022 at 11:49 AM, ZombieDupe said:

I don't even know what that does, you expect newbies to be able to cycle through 3 dozen settings that have no visual indicators next to them either? None even looks at the controls menu, let alone this.

Making all recipes visible by default presents too much information for new players to make heads or tails of. If the game just presented everything in one tab to you all at once, it'd be overloading to find the booster shot that tells you its the one that raises max health

[Lord Cafe]

6 hours ago, JustExo said:

Making all recipes visible by default presents too much information for new players to make heads or tails of. If the game just presented everything in one tab to you all at once, it'd be overloading to find the booster shot that tells you its the one that raises max health

Good point, it's a game design principle to only show what the players need at moment instead of putting everything possible on screen, so klei did totally right not making every single recipe available at first but then even left a option to make it visible so, 10/10 of this dev team.

On 8/8/2022 at 10:59 AM, ZombieDupe said:

There is the Endless mode, which would provide a similar effect already, except with the portal. A button to instantly resurrect there when dead would help save travel time as well and to not make players bored making the trip. There would be no need for using the mod if people just knew about it, but there is a lot too hidden that way too many don't notice.

You don't need anything outside the game to save people, it's preety easy to understand how revive works and dead players can even teach the new ones how to make reviving stuff if the other ones haven't figure out by themselves and besided that, death should always be punished, that's the focus of surviving if i can literraly die with no penalty why should i bother keeping my stats high? better die and they reset again to half and i keep doing this instead of working for food, health and etc.

The death penalt is there to FORCE the player to be more carefull, if u know u have half health now why u would go to fights instead of recovery your health gathering some armor and weapons to beat some spiders to recovery hp? even if u don't know how to do it, at some point u will notice this recipe in the game, when i was a begginer took only some days to make alchemy machine and find the booster shot and i was wondering "So this recovery hp" and after dying i tested and that's it, extremely simple and that's how the majority people get it.

There's no way Klei could come up with a game design that help every single person, even if ater death they put a message saying "Gather this to recovery your lost health" some people would not reat and keep asking "How do i get my health back?" 

This game has one if not the best design of all survival games, preety easy and clean, dst it's all about being prepared if u fight bosses with no revive or second  chances and dies and lost your world, that's your fault not the game, i almost never die but i still do like, 10 meat effinges and a lot of living ammulet cus at some point i may do something stupid and die, that's the whole idea behind this game, being prepared.

Cheers.

[Just-guy]

18 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

The booster shot costs 8 rot, which is kind of a pain if you haven't figured out farming yet and are subsisting on the food you'd want to turn into rot.

You could just collect multiple Light Bulbs as they rot quite quickly.

[Bumber64]

On 8/9/2022 at 8:41 PM, Just-guy said:

You could just collect multiple Light Bulbs as they rot quite quickly.

With caves on, yes. (Noobs probably aren't going to be entering caves early on, also.)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

With caves on, yes. (Noobs probably aren't going to be entering caves early on, also.)

pick flowers or berries...

[goodguythatguy]

The game isn't too great at explaining, clarifying or making things manageable. That's probably why there are hours and hours of Youtube tutorials, a very in-depth and thick Wiki and a whole bunch of Mods that are popular and recommended.

If there were no Tutorials, no Mods and no Wiki Info, I wouldn't even play it. Luckily, over time, I was able to make my experience playing DST worthwhile, but Klei didn't make my experience playing DST worthwhile nearly as much as random people that I assume don't get paid a penny by Klei.

[Just-guy]

59 minutes ago, goodguythatguy said:

The game isn't too great at explaining, clarifying or making things manageable. That's probably why there are hours and hours of Youtube tutorials, a very in-depth and thick Wiki and a whole bunch of Mods that are popular and recommended.

That's one of the main aspects of the game, you can discover things on your own, and while there are things that aren't told, the survival elements are shown in a way that the player can learn them without having to read somewhere online.

[abrocator]

Resurrection methods don’t need a buff. They are OP.

New players should just:

1. Rush ruins (ARR: Always Rush Ruins)—plenty of red gems everywhere
2. Fight Klaus at the start of winter
3. Fight DF whenever convenient (like in the first 25 days or whatever)

Then they will have plenty of resurrection amulets for the usual noob deaths:

1. “where is base”
2. Random Tentacle death (at most 3X)
3. Deerclops surprise
4. Dying of overheating (at most 4X)
5. Burning to death due to trying to extinguish wildfire-engulfed death base (at most 2X)
6. Eating monster meat (at most 3X)

That’s just 13 amulets, at the most. Now that all the noob deaths are done with the player will be ready to megabase as Wormwood on Twitch.