Practical rain rituals should require non season-specific ingredient instead of down feathers

[Faintly Macabre]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Immersion

How in the world is using cactus flowers to finish building a house immersive? Come on.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Faintly Macabre said:

How in the world is using cactus flowers to finish building a house immersive? Come on.

That's not quite what I meant the fact you can't rush such a impactful event adds to it's impact.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

That's not quite what I meant the fact you can't rush such a impactful event adds to it's impact.

yeah but there are better ways of doing this like making the quest actually take that long to where you can't rush by making it have a lot of gameplay and moving parts. on paper it sounds good but since in this case a single item for a single part of a quest it doesn't do much too add weight.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Dextops said:

im saying it can undermine it and make it boring for someone who can do everything in a quick manor having to be forced to wait for a reason. I would not mind in the slightest if the recipe was changed i just don't want more season locked content so if i want to have it before 4 hours i have that option.

I don't think the game should be balanced specifically for speedrunning.

[Dextops]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

I don't think the game should be balanced specifically for speedrunning.

this isn't speedrunning it's not wanting to wait 4 hours for a character specific item. I can assure you there is no get wickerbottoms rain book speedrun category 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Dextops said:

yeah but there are better ways of doing this like making the quest actually take that long to where you can't rush by making it have a lot of gameplay and moving parts. on paper it sounds good but since in this case a single item for a single part of a quest it doesn't do much too add weight.

I feel like asking the average player to survive all 4 of the seasons to change how the world fuctions and open up a new boss adds a ton of weight even if it's just a flower.

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

this isn't speedrunning it's not wanting to wait 4 hours for a character specific item. I can assure you there is no get wickerbottoms rain book speedrun category 

I was talking about the lunar quest I'm fine with Wickerbottom's taking that long despite being a character item only because it's a power that gives a great deal of control over the world placing it further beyond spring would been too much but I feel spring is still in the acceptable range.

[Faintly Macabre]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel like asking the average player to survive all 4 of the seasons to change how the world fuctions and open up a new boss adds a ton of weight even if it's just a flower.

How is this about the average player? The average player isn't rushing CC. The average player probably isn't finishing the Pearl tasks in less than two years, if at all.

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't think the game should be balanced specifically for speedrunning.

Removing needless roadblocks to a perfectly legitimate playstyle is not the same as "balancing around speedrunning."

[Dextops]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

I feel like asking the average player to survive all 4 of the seasons to change how the world fuctions and open up a new boss adds a ton of weight even if it's just a flower.

most of the playerbase can't get past winter and can barely progress far (not in day count but of what equipment they have)

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Faintly Macabre said:

How is this about the average player? The average player isn't rushing CC. The average player probably isn't finishing the Pearl tasks in less than two years, if at all.

I said asking the average player because most don't mess with season order and this was the bare min I wasn't trying to imply everyone is doing the quest.

 

2 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Removing needless roadblocks to a perfectly legitimate playstyle is not the same as "balancing around speedrunning."

Everything is a needless roadblock to someone.

[Faintly Macabre]

13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I said asking the average player because most don't mess with season order and this was the bare min I wasn't trying to imply everyone is doing the quest.

But if it's not actually impeding the average player, how does this point stand up?

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Everything is a needless roadblock to someone.

We really gonna bring this logical track to the station of equivocating literally any viewpoint? Forcing a player who is experienced and skilled and well-planned enough to get everything they need together to do something to wait 4 hours just to pick some cactus is not equally as reasonable as literally any other stepping stone conceived.

[Catteflyterpill]

I gotta admit I enjoy more functionality to rare times like the down feather. And I don't mind it taking til spring to get, it's a single item for a character that is season locked. It's not their whole playstyle or kit. Seasons are more unique because of the individual drops and events that happen through them. I feel like some people have a mentality where things need to be taken care of as quickly and efficiently as possible and while there's nothing wrong with playing how you like I don't think all the items and content should be readily accessible to pander to that speedrun lifestyle. One, out of the several books Wicker is gaining this update, doesn't seem too bad. 

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

But if it's not actually impeding the average player, how does this point stand up?

To be clear I said

 

34 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel like asking the average player to survive all 4 of the seasons to change how the world fuctions and open up a new boss adds a ton of weight even if it's just a flower.

"Asking" not everyone does.

6 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

We really gonna bring this logical track to the station of equivocating literally any viewpoint? Forcing a player who is experienced and skilled and well-planned enough to get everything they need together to do something to wait 4 hours just to pick some cactus is not equally as reasonable as literally any other stepping stone conceived.

Even if it was some gem of untold power that used the essence of the 4 seasons there would be people unsatisfied as I've said already adapting content to all be readily available when the player wants it is not a good way to go about the game especially one trying to encourage you to commit just gives more reasons to abandon worlds quicker.

[Faintly Macabre]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

To be clear I said "Asking" not everyone does.

Even if it was some gem of untold power that used the essence of the 4 seasons there would be people unsatisfied as I've said already adapting content to all be readily available when the player wants it is not a good way to go about the game especially one trying to encourage you to commit just gives more reasons to abandon worlds quicker.

The point here is that the average player has nothing to do with anything. Locking the event behind a trivial summer pickable doesn't affect the average player a whole lot; it really only serves to impede more advanced players from playing the way they want. And who are these hypothetical players that hop into worlds just to get Pearl's Pearl or kill CC or whatever and then just leave? And where? Do people just rove public servers starting the moonstorms one server after another? The answer to that question obviously being no, how does how people play on their own servers or with their friends or whatever affect you in any way at all?

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

The point here is that the average player has nothing to do with anything. Locking the event behind a trivial summer pickable doesn't affect the average player a whole lot; it really only serves to impede more advanced players from playing the way they want. And who are these hypothetical players that hop into worlds just to get Pearl's Pearl or kill CC or whatever and then just leave? And where? Do people just rove public servers starting the moonstorms one server after another? The answer to that question obviously being no, how does how people play on their own servers or with their friends or whatever affect you in any way at all?

This is strange honestly it feels like your hyper focusing on the words I used rather than the point i was making.

[Faintly Macabre]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is strange honestly it feels like your hyper focusing on the words I used rather than the point i was making.

I can't divine your inner thoughts and I'm not receiving any psychic link you might be extending to me, so I don't have any choice but to use the words you're typing to try to understand what your point is. Please forgive.

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

I can't divine your inner thoughts and I'm not receiving any psychic link you might be extending to me, so I don't have any choice but to use the words you're typing to try to understand what your point is. Please forgive.

Ok but you could read the post you quoted previously no?

to be clear asking and saying the average player does are different things.

20 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

how does how people play on their own servers or with their friends or whatever affect you in any way at all?

It doesn't that's why settings exist for if you don't want to wait for content it's not cheating.

 

20 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

And who are these hypothetical players that hop into worlds just to get Pearl's Pearl or kill CC or whatever and then just leave? And where? Do people just rove public servers starting the moonstorms one server after another? The answer to that question obviously being no

The answer is no because it's not currently possible to speed run it people speed run the ruins and bosses all the time often getting bored after and leaving as they feel there's nothing left to do.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Everything is a needless roadblock to someone.

Except I think you forget that DST is a sandbox game. Most roadblocks exist so that the player has to work for an item that will later on become relevant or due to power. Crabking/ all the tasks leading up to CC and CC itself already do this. Pearl being an additional roadblock isn't needed.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Except I think you forget that DST is a sandbox game. Most roadblocks exist so that the player has to work for an item that will later on become relevant or due to power. Crabking/ all the tasks leading up to CC and CC itself already do this. Pearl being an additional roadblock isn't needed.

I didn't note this

 

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It doesn't that's why settings exist for if you don't want to wait for content it's not cheating.

 

[Faintly Macabre]

26 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

to be clear asking and saying the average player does are different things.

I don't understand how you can't see that the fact that the average player is not going to get the whole thing done that fast means that you're only really asking the advanced players to sit on their thumbs for hours.

26 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It doesn't that's why settings exist for if you don't want to wait for content it's not cheating.

The only case in which that's not highly debatable is a summer start and who the hell wants to do that?

26 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The answer is no because it's not currently possible to speed run it people speed run the ruins and bosses all the time often getting bored after and leaving as they feel there's nothing left to do.

Neverminding that rushing the ruins or a boss is child's play compared to taking out CC, I don't honestly believe that that's what actually happens. I'd bet anything what actually happens is that once they're done rushing ruins or whatever boss, they get bored/frustrated and leave because they realize nobody wants to kill bosses or progress world events or whatever it is they were hoping to do with all the loot and leave, or they do it just because they enjoy it and doing it on a public server lets them do it and leave other players a bucket of goodies. Moreover, you could hypothetically join a server that's already closer to summer and just rush CC on those? Contrary to the memes, servers are not all in a perpetual state of Autumn. The reason people don't rush CC on pubs is because it's a ton of work and doesn't really benefit randos like rushing ruins or other bosses would.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Neverminding that rushing the ruins or a boss is child's play compared to taking out CC, I don't honestly believe that that's what actually happens. I'd bet anything what actually happens is that once they're done rushing ruins or whatever boss, they get bored/frustrated and leave because they realize nobody wants to kill bosses or progress world events or whatever it is they were hoping to do with all the loot and leave, or they do it just because they enjoy it and doing it on a public server lets them do it and leave other players a bucket of goodies. Moreover, you could hypothetically join a server that's already closer to summer and just rush CC on those? Contrary to the memes, servers are not all in a perpetual state of Autumn. The reason people don't rush CC on pubs is because it's a ton of work and doesn't really benefit randos like rushing ruins or other bosses would.

I've personally been on servers where being bored is the common excuse unless they're all being passive aggressive i guess. Also people don't always boss for benefit I've been a part of many servers who rush shadow pieces or just kill bosses and give away the loot just for the bragging rights and never fight fuel weaver. There are plenty of people who don't like starting in lived in servers.

17 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

The only case in which that's not highly debatable is a summer start and who the hell wants to do that?

People who don't wish to wait for the flower?

19 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

don't understand how you can't see that the fact that the average player is not going to get the whole thing done that fast

I'm very aware you seem to keep ignoring me saying that the game is asking this of the player not that the average player is doing this.

20 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

means that you're only really asking the advanced players to sit on their thumbs for hours.

Not at all the game's a sandbox survival the settings are there if you don't use them that's you choosing to do that the game isn't forcing you not to use the settings it's not going to shame you or add a achievement to your profile saying "cheater" 

[Faintly Macabre]

16 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I've personally been on servers where being bored is the common excuse unless they're all being passive aggressive i guess.

But are they bored because there's nothing left to do, or because nobody's doing anything that interests them?

19 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Also people don't always boss for benefit I've been a part of many servers who rush shadow pieces or just kill bosses and give away the loot just for the bragging rights and never fight fuel weaver. There are plenty of people who don't like starting in lived in servers.

Bragging rights? Bragging to who? I think you're presuming too much. If they just want to brag, why bother giving the loot away? And uh, fighting Fuelweaver solo is a pretty big undertaking for most players. In fact, this kind of weakens your point. Why aren't people rushing Fuelweaver for sport?

24 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

People who don't wish to wait for the flower?

Super reasonable. If you don't want to wait for the flowers, just start in a season that'll almost certainly kill you while you're trying to do anything and set the world on fire the whole way, rushers!

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm very aware you seem to keep ignoring me saying that the game is asking this of the player not that the average player is doing this.

My dude you can't cut off the part of the sentence that made that thought complete and relevant and then tell me I'm the one being deliberately obtuse

28 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Not at all the game's a sandbox survival the settings are there if you don't use them that's you choosing to do that the game isn't forcing you not to use the settings it's not going to shame you or add a achievement to your profile saying "cheater" 

BUT WHY SHOULD THAT BE NECESSARY?!

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Dextops said:

most of the playerbase can't get past winter and can barely progress far (not in day count but of what equipment they have)

I don’t mean to be rude when I say this.. but if most the playerbase can’t get past winter then maybe just maybe all those people are playing the wrong game? DS/DST has a unique “Niche” category that it falls into- and what’s more important is that I bought DS/DST BECAUSE it fell into this “niche” category.. not because it played like something I have already played before- but because it intentionally set itself out to stand away from the crowd of other games.

Its like when people play Apex Legends instead of Fortnite because they love Apex Legends for being it’s own thing- but suddenly.. they start adding the very same stupid emotes and cartoonish character skins to Apex Legends that eventually you get to a point where you ask yourself if the game I enjoyed playing for NOT being like X is going to become more and more like X why don’t I just abandon all hope for the game I WAS enjoying and just go play X game it’s trying to be more like?

This is EXACTLY what happened with me, Fortnite, and Apex Legends: I hated Fortnite when it first launched, and was a strict Apex Player but the more Apex became like Fortnite, and Vice Versa (Fortnite adding Respawn vans & no build mode in particular..) I have not played Apex Legends since & have become addicted to Fortnite.

DS/DST only appealing to small select group of players is infinitely better then trying to become more popular & well known but forsaking every single feature your original fans loved the franchise for being.

So while most people can’t survive Winter, I don’t want Klei to bend the game to their liking to make it easier either.

Large Tree Canopy’s made Summer Overheating and Wildfires less of a threat in DST, what was one of the very few challenges of Summer Season is now Nullified, and it is clear cut catering to Casuals to appeal to a broader audience of “Average” players.

But as I stated at the top of this post: I did not BUY DS/DST for it to be more like X, I bought it because it stood itself apart from X.

And NOW here’s where I’m at and what I’m personally thinking Klei has added all these features over the years to lessen challenges like Wildfires, or allowing Crops to grow in Winter, or completely eradicating character downsides- but what they have YET to do is provide any kind of amped up difficulty because of those things-

For example: If Wildfires and Smoldering and Overheating can be avoided by Large Tree Canopy, AND what was once Non-Renewable resources you had to take EXTREME caution to not let perish from your worlds is now renewable- then I fully expect new weather seasons or game mechanics that challenge that like Fire Tornadoes, or Pigs/Bunny’s attempting to raid your farm crops.

I haven’t lost all hope in Klei yet.. but the more and more DS/DST feels like it’s losing its original charm- the more likely I am to start looking for a game that satisfies the Itch I was hoping the DS franchise would scratch.

[Faintly Macabre]

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

-snip-

Hi

I've been playing the game longer than you. Lots of people have. News flash: most everybody hates summer. It has always been the least popular season, by a landslide. The number one strategy for dealing with summer has pretty much always been "don't deal with summer". Things like the oasis and the waterlogged biomes do not actually make summer easier or cater to casuals; they just give people more options.

Please stop painting yourself as the arbiter of what Don't Starve is or should be or as some kind of representative of a more classic, core, grizzled class of player. By your own admission you haven't or barely even interacted with half the game's content.

[Mike23Ua]

24 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Hi

I've been playing the game longer than you. Lots of people have. News flash: most everybody hates summer. It has always been the least popular season, by a landslide. The number one strategy for dealing with summer has pretty much always been "don't deal with summer". Things like the oasis and the waterlogged biomes do not actually make summer easier or cater to casuals; they just give people more options.

Please stop painting yourself as the arbiter of what Don't Starve is or should be or as some kind of representative of a more classic, core, grizzled class of player. By your own admission you haven't or barely even interacted with half the game's content.

Which game? DS, Shipwrecked, Hamlet or DST? Because if your talking about DST- your absolutely right I have no desire to trigger some boss fight intended for 3+ people.

If however your talking about DS+it’s DLCs, then I miss the weather seasons that would uproot twigs and other stuff and send them flying across the screen into the void.

You May have been playing DS/DST longer than me, but that gives you absolutely no right to silence my voice of wanting more content on par with DS/SW/HAM

And I’m tired of people thinking they can just label themselves as “Veteran Status” when even the games own designers have come forth and outright admitted that they sometimes forget what all they have added to the game over the years.

My reply was in response to: “Let’s make rain book accessible for Day 1 speed runs” when I’m trying to kindly explain why time-locking certain features to keep the player playing can be both a good, and a bad thing depending on how it is executed- and I still stand firmly by my original opinion that it makes sense for a rain calling book to require ingredients from a mob that summons rain.

[Mysterious box]

58 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

But are they bored because there's nothing left to do, or because nobody's doing anything that interests them?

I can't say for all their circumstances but there were more than enough servers where people were more than willing to help.

 

59 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Bragging rights? Bragging to who? I think you're presuming too much. If they just want to brag, why bother giving the loot away? And uh, fighting Fuelweaver solo is a pretty big undertaking for most players. In fact, this kind of weakens your point. Why aren't people rushing Fuelweaver for sport?

I mean aside from people who literally were bragging why people just drop their loot at base or say x or y can have all the drops your guess is as good as mine if it's not for bragging rights. Also i don't remember saying every rusher does everything alone but feel free to quote me on that. Also who says people don't rush fuel weaver for sport you do realize there are people who have fun fighting bosses right?

 

1 hour ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Super reasonable. If you don't want to wait for the flowers, just start in a season that'll almost certainly kill you while you're trying to do anything and set the world on fire the whole way, rushers!

Then start in spring? I thought we were still talking about advanced players here though.

 

1 hour ago, Faintly Macabre said:

My dude you can't cut off the part of the sentence that made that thought complete and relevant and then tell me I'm the one being deliberately obtuse

I was specifically addressing what seemed to be you addressing the average player comment I made but I kept the other half of what you said right below it.

 

1 hour ago, Faintly Macabre said:

BUT WHY SHOULD THAT BE NECESSARY?!

It isn't it's simply a solution to something you feel is a problem.