Controller Gameplay needs a QoL update

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, Pig Princess said:

snip

Holy cow. I really don't think the idea was "screw kb+m" players. They just don't want controller play to be a half-assed afterthought.

[Pig Princess]

18 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Holy cow. I really don't think the idea was "screw kb+m" players. They just don't want controller play to be a half-assed afterthought.

Unfortunately this particular user regularly wrote in the past that he wants game be designed around controller. I won't search quotes now (maybe later), but in this particular case it's the same claim in different words, yet not so spectacular as in other posts. Which is peculiar, considering Mike repeatedly asks about features, that were able to came in existence because devs design game around kb+m.

I usually abstain from offtopic and internet duels, but this particular user's claims are an exception.

Edit: and yes, it made me angry, especially because I know how it feels to be handicapped because game designers suddenly decided to support controller (Dragon Age example and many others).

[Mike23Ua]

On 8/31/2022 at 1:30 AM, Pig Princess said:

Unfortunately this particular user regularly wrote in the past that he wants game be designed around controller. I won't search quotes now (maybe later), but in this particular case it's the same claim in different words, yet not so spectacular as in other posts. Which is peculiar, considering Mike repeatedly asks about features, that were able to came in existence because devs design game around kb+m.

I usually abstain from offtopic and internet duels, but this particular user's claims are an exception.

Edit: and yes, it made me angry, especially because I know how it feels to be handicapped because game designers suddenly decided to support controller (Dragon Age example and many others).

It’s never good for either side no matter how you look at it, when a game is made for one platform but ported to another it’s obviously going to perform at its best on the platform it’s made for, whilst being more of a hassle on platforms it wasn’t designed for- Klei probably saw a steady decline in console players when the Craft UI update was added- I can’t speak for everyone but I can say I used to play DST almost all day long, and now I play at most 15-20 minutes a day, and I’m not the only one, other console players have spoke about their dislike of the new UI. 
 

If you want an example of a game that is designed for PC first then ported to consoles you should not look any further then Black Desert- this game is a pain in the back end to play on Xbox using a controller, because you have to move your analog sticks to just the right tiny little box, drag and drop things in and out of your inventory, etc.. I imagine this to be a fast process with a Mouse, but for me it turns me off playing the game.

Is that a personal problem? Maybe.. I also don’t like how Multiversus forces you to move your virtual reticle over an objectives to and click on a tiny little box to claim your daily objectives- this should NOT have ever been designed this way for a console controller.. could you imagine how terrible DST would be for console players if we needed to do that to click on items in our compendium to change clothing/belongings..? Yikes.. 

So I will give Klei credit: they do better then most companies in adapting their game experience onto other platforms, it just really upsets me when it’s core gameplay features that aren’t up to par.

Klei has claimed time and time again that their pipeline dream for the Dont Starve franchise is Cross-Platform Multiplay.. yet if they released something like this right now- What PC player in their right mind is going to want to play with a Console playing Wortox player? He’s at a handicap.

[Pig Princess]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

So I will give Klei credit: they do better then most companies in adapting their game experience onto other platforms, it just really upsets me when it’s core gameplay features that aren’t up to par.

Yes, but important thing to remember is that in order for platforms to be on par weaker one in terms of controls should be updated, not stronger one be held back. Right now controller tries to catch up, not kb + mouse is held back (thankfully), but too many times I saw situation when devs decide to make game multiplatform by adding only very simple features that even on controller can be done easily, and furthermore - design game around controller and port it completely unadapted to kb + m. 

Maybe this situation irritates me to such high level because I'm using mouse more than most of the people even among kb + m users. Almost everyone I see uses WASD for movement, for example, while I'm moving and doing other stuff with mouse (which is more comfortable to me to do this way). Imagine my frustration when I play series of game perfectly fine and have fun, and then 3rd one releases on PC with unadapted controls (with clunky and heavy shift to keyboard even in parts that clear as day would be better to be controlled with mouse, like targeting) - I'm loosing like 2/3 of my ability to do stuff.

Recently I got a chance to play with controller again (I myself own only PC and kb + m), and I basically felt like my arms were completely broken (barely could do something), it was so bad - to the point of me laughing and abandoning idea of playing.

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

What PC player in their right mind is going to want to play with a Console playing Wortox player? He’s at a handicap.

Wortox on console is indeed handicapped, but even though I can't speak for everyone, I wouldn't kick controller-moved Wortox. Even with mouse available very few PC players can use character to fullest potential, and with average skill I doubt somebody would notice the difference. I don't see people kick other players because they are not skilled enough either, in fact in 99% of cases kicks happen only if player griefs/trolls/steals. If you ever played with me, for example, I would protect your Abigail in bossfight by aiming weather pain, freeze red gem deer with ice staff and drop junk to the ocean if needed, but I indeed would prefer to know if my teammate uses controller to not be surprised in worst possible moment. No kicking though.

Spoiler

Also reply helps to keep this thread high enough for devs to see.

 

[kipper0k]

On 03.08.2022 at 02:41, Peyo33 said:

Мы заслуживаем QoL, мы не можем играть таким персонажем, как Wortox, в полной мере из-за ограничений контроллера. Также упоминалось, что на ПК есть мод, например, геометрическое размещение, я думаю, что все консольные игроки очень хотят эту функцию, ее также легко реализовать, потому что она уже есть в игре (расположение стен).

Пожалуйста, Клей, помоги нам получить больше удовольствия от игры! Вы должны сделать это, так как проигрыватель playstation не может объединять учетные записи с другими платформами.. <3 <3

the layout of the walls is not at all what you want

[Peyo33]

6 hours ago, kipper0k said:

the layout of the walls is not at all what you want

I can play without Wortox, weather pain and lazy explorer (bad aiming), but as a designer the bad placement of objects is very frustrating

[Bugsworth]

Well, yes and no. I've never had a problem with controller really. the only bad thing is the crafting menu, and I hate that even with keyboard and mouse, but I do think controller is jankier than keyboard and mouse in dst, though some things I find are less janky and easier to do on controller too.

[Peyo33]

On 9/4/2022 at 1:10 AM, Bugsworth said:

Well, yes and no. I've never had a problem with controller really. the only bad thing is the crafting menu, and I hate that even with keyboard and mouse, but I do think controller is jankier than keyboard and mouse in dst, though some things I find are less janky and easier to do on controller too.

I had to enable the pause server when crafting because it's very unconfortable with controller..

[jrthekidRS]

I prefer if they just added keyboard support so if you were really tired of a controller you can just use a keyboard. But of course this won't work for everyone because not everybody will have access to a keyboard, but there will always be a problem playing on controller so it would be nice to have an option to completely bypass them.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, jrthekidRS said:

not everybody will have access to a keyboard

there are very good keyboards for less than 10€

[King.Bowser]

6 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

there are very good keyboards for less than 10€

So, buy one for every console player and send for them.

On topic: Controller needs a HUGE Qol since the launch of the game. Klei never priorized but still keep selling the game for Playstation, Xbox and Nintendo.

I don't want play with a mouse and keyboard, 99% of console players don't want that. I just want a better experience with Wortox, Lazy Explorer, Weather Pain, and so on.

The Bug session of this forum already have tons of messages, reports and sugestions, since 2016.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, King.Bowser said:

So, buy one for every console player and send for them.

if they can affort buying a console, a game, a controller, a tv and the electricity bill im sure they can affort a cheap keyboard and mouse. I dont have millions of euros to buy them to every player but most of them have few coins

[King.Bowser]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if they can affort buying a console, a game, a controller, a tv and the electricity bill im sure they can affort a cheap keyboard and mouse. I dont have millions of euros to buy them to every player but most of them have few coins

If that people play on console than they want play with controllers. If they want play with keyboard and mouse than they would buy the PC version.

Simple like that, an Ape can understand this.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, King.Bowser said:

If that people play on console than they want play with controllers. If they want play with keyboard and mouse than they would buy the PC version.

Simple like that, an Ape can understand this.

maybe an ape could understand that giving choices is good. Some pc players play with controller even with access to K&M

or maybe is asking too much for an ape

[King.Bowser]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

maybe an ape could understand that giving choices is good. Some pc players play with controller even with access to K&M

or maybe is asking too much for an ape

Person 1: Controller needs a QOL, some things could be way better.

Person 2: buy a cheap keyboard and mouse.

Ape: person 2 didn't understand.

[Mike23Ua]

Be nice.. or don’t say anything at all, If I wanted to play using a Keyboard and Mouse I would have bought a PC and set up a gaming rig with a computer monitor, PC Tower, Keyboard, Mouse, etc.

I bought an Xbox specifically to play games with as Minimal Wires as Possible- while yes maybe my “PC Days” were all wires everywhere, and now days everything can run off Wifi (another problem that in its early days had issues due to other devices interfering with its signal) My Wireless Xbox Controllers can be synced to multiple Xbox’s in the same room.

My golden rule for PC Vs Console gaming is- On PC you get high performance and peak gameplay but.. you also need to set up a “Gaming Rig” where you likely sit in an office chair with a desk and KB+Mouse if you want the “Best” performance.

MEANWHILE I can lay on my bed upside down staring at my Tv using my console controller to play Xbox so it’s more comfortable. It’s also much easier to understand what games my console is capable of playing… and I don’t need to worry about the ANNOYANCE that was understanding how to upgrade my PCs Minimum and Maximum Spec Requirements to know rather or not the game I wanna play will run on my PC, at least when I buy a Series X/S I know that every single game in the Digital Xbox Store will run on my console.

So you sacrifice peak performance for peak ease of Access.

That said: Telling Klei to add a KB+Mouse function to DST for console players is only putting a band-aid over the fact that using a controller for the game could use some heavy QoL improvements.. they said they had hired a team of people who in my understanding… their entire “Job” is to improve the quality of the game for console players- and I simply want to see that team of people doing their job.

Its like if your going to create your first ever open world MMO in a franchise that’s always been single player- what do you do??? You hire some people who have had expert experience in working on/with successful & popular MMO’s.

[Pig Princess]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

you also need to set up a “Gaming Rig” where you likely sit in an office chair with a desk and KB+Mouse if you want the “Best” performance.

 

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

MEANWHILE I can lay on my bed upside down staring at my Tv using my console controller

Meanwhile I can lay on my bed with laptop on my knees staring upwards to the display and using build-in keyboard with wireless mouse.

I know one can assemble stationary PC for the same price with better performance than laptop, but turns out for DST what I have is enough for me. Also my laptop is not gaming one, and chairs for stationary PC can be very comfortable to sit at.

On topic: I wonder if it's even possible to make controller match kb+m on design level without holding back potential of kb+m. All suggestions I saw about improving controller performance end up either cutting off "inconvenient" features, or replicating keyboard and mouse, at which point I wonder why wouldn't one just buy keyboard and mouse. I genuinely can't think about any feature that can be done on controller better than kb+m, would be interesting to learn about at those.

[BezKa]

38 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

feature that can be done on controller better than kb+m, would be interesting to learn about at those.

The only thing I can think of is those funky combos you do in those interactive movie games and shaking the controller. On the other hand, I never played one on PC so who knows, maybe it's doable.

[King.Bowser]

2 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I genuinely can't think

Agree.

It's not a "competition" between Keyboard/Mouse and Controller.

It's just a request from console/controller players (WHO DON'T WANT PLAY WITH A KEYBOARD), to get a better experience with some features. 

Just it... serious, I don't know why some people can't understand this simple thing.

[Pig Princess]

1 hour ago, King.Bowser said:

Agree.

I'm going to ignore your hostility this one time.

1 hour ago, King.Bowser said:

It's just a request from console/controller players (WHO DON'T WANT PLAY WITH A KEYBOARD), to get a better experience with some features. 

By the way, I'm not arguing that controllers should not receive changes, there is room for improvement in some areas (like building grid and tool wheel, ability to rebind controls and improve activity of picking up multiple items in close proximity), I should have specified in previous message that I see no way to raise skill cap (and in some cases flexibility as well) of controller to the keyboard + mouse level, and a lot of complaints focus exactly on that and ask to fix exactly that. This includes drag-and-drop feature, aiming and teleportation. Even if this could be improved a little bit (by replicating mouse or giving player set number of values to choose from instead of one) I don't believe it would solve the problem. Why? Because replicating mouse on controller is that mouse you claim to be uncomfortable with, but even more uncomfortable than actual mouse (with extra steps to do the same thing). Which makes me wonder: if one likes controller and doesn't like keyboard and mouse on principle, why would that person use this mouse replica? Wouldn't replica inherit those features people dislike (I wonder what are those features)? This goes both for targeting at distance and drag-and-drop feature. As for teleporting, choice between a few teleport distances is better than single fixed value for sure (as long as it doesn't make already painful to even watch teleporting process on controller even more painful by adding extra steps every time), but skill cap won't reach PC anyway because a number of set values is worse then continuum provided by mouse. Flexibility also won't match since on kb+m one needs 0 extra effort to change teleporting distance, yet controller has some principal limitations, and overcoming them will be extra effort no matter what. Trying to teleport freely on controller is like trying to fit round object into square hole because of controller limitations and designed with mouse in mind objective. And controllers don't have as much buttons to match keyboard either when it comes to shortcuts, plus combinations follow that rule for obvious reasons. One can try to replicate keyboard's choice of buttons via combinations on controller, but best case scenario latter will always do the same in more complicated/lengthy way, and will never match keyboard amount of combinations should game use some.

Which makes me wonder why would anyone caring about skill cap, flexibility and comfort continue to use controller (outside of habit).

Also, @King.Bowser, how cute of you to give my other recent posts potato cup reaction, even in unrelated threads. By the way, mind explain to me what potato cup means? I can't take offense or be upset when I don't see anything upsetting, you know. Potato cup is cute trinket though, I'm always happy to get it in-game.

Edit: yay, more potato cups from potato cup master!

[King.Bowser]

7 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

I'm going to ignore your hostility this one time.

By the way, I'm not arguing that controllers should not receive changes, there is room for improvement in some areas (like building grid and tool wheel, ability to rebind controls and improve activity of picking up multiple items in close proximity), I should have specified in previous message that I see no way to raise skill cap (and in some cases flexibility as well) of controller to the keyboard + mouse level, and a lot of complaints focus exactly on that and ask to fix exactly that. This includes drag-and-drop feature, aiming and teleportation. Even if this could be improved a little bit (by replicating mouse or giving player set number of values to choose from instead of one) I don't believe it would solve the problem. Why? Because replicating mouse on controller is that mouse you claim to be uncomfortable with, but even more uncomfortable than actual mouse (with extra steps to do the same thing). Which makes me wonder: if one likes controller and doesn't like keyboard and mouse on principle, why would that person use this mouse replica? Wouldn't replica inherit those features people dislike (I wonder what are those features)? This goes both for targeting at distance and drag-and-drop feature. As for teleporting, choice between a few teleport distances is better than single fixed value for sure (as long as it doesn't make already painful to even watch teleporting process on controller even more painful by adding extra steps every time), but skill cap won't reach PC anyway because a number of set values is worse then continuum provided by mouse. Flexibility also won't match since on kb+m one needs 0 extra effort to change teleporting distance, yet controller has some principal limitations, and overcoming them will be extra effort no matter what. Trying to teleport freely on controller is like trying to fit round object into square hole because of controller limitations and designed with mouse in mind objective. And controllers don't have as much buttons to match keyboard either when it comes to shortcuts, plus combinations follow that rule for obvious reasons. One can try to replicate keyboard's choice of buttons via combinations on controller, but best case scenario latter will always do the same in more complicated/lengthy way, and will never match keyboard amount of combinations should game use some.

Which makes me wonder why would anyone caring about skill cap, flexibility and comfort continue to use controller (outside of habit).

Also, @King.Bowser, how cute of you to give my other recent posts potato cup reaction, even in unrelated threads. By the way, mind explain to me what potato cup means? I can't take offense or be upset when I don't see anything upsetting, you know. Potato cup is cute trinket though, I'm always happy to get it in-game.

You are not a controller user, just bullying Mike23 with off topic childish nonsense. Bye, Dom Quixote.

[Pig Princess]

2 minutes ago, King.Bowser said:

You are not a controller user, just bullying Mike23 with off topic childish nonsense. Bye, Dom Quixote.

Oh, don't be so angry, take potato cup cheer up!

I wrote on topic as well, and saw quite a few videos of controller users; I just suspect in some aspects people keep to ask impossible/hardly worth the effort things from devs, so I decided to express my opinion as well.

[King.Bowser]

5 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Oh, don't be so angry, take potato cup cheer up!

I wrote on topic as well, and saw quite a few videos of controller users; I just suspect in some aspects people keep to ask impossible/hardly worth the effort things from devs, so I decided to express my opinion as well.

I'm not angry, very little kid. I'm not the one who range teeth with rage.

Maybe you should search a doctor for your angry issues. There is therapy and medications that can help you. Now, bye. I REALLY don't have patient anymore to pay attention to your off topic BS

[Mike23Ua]

Again, be nice or don’t reply at all, the devs are very busy working on new content for us to enjoy, they don’t need to waste even more time monitoring the forums when people need to be reminded to be nice.

My entire take on the subject is Klei has stated in previous posts their Pipeline dream for DS franchise is cross-platform compatibility. And therefore I as a Console player do not wish to be bullied by PC (or even other consoles) because they’re version of the game does something my version can not do.

Mods which aren’t official content is one thing… but better casting, aiming, teleporting, dragging, dropping etc.. is another thing altogether and for Cross-play to ever truly be taken seriously- All platforms will need to be on a level playing field.

This May mean that certain platforms have to take a hit in what it’s capable of so all platforms perform roughly the same.. but surely Klei is no stranger to this.

I mean they have to own PlayStations and Xbox’s or Nintendo Switches right?? So they have to know the exact reasons why when I bought Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1+2 on my Xbox Series S that I was also given a free copy of the last Gen version right????

The answer is pretty obvious- but I’ll break it down for you, the X/S version doesn’t just have prettier graphics, it also has further field of vision, more frames per second, not only can you see further.. but you do everything faster- Which is why If I want to play THPS1+2 with my last Gen friend, the game launches the last Gen version of the game.

let’s use the newly released Nintendo switch version of DST as an example- Klei is running into problems getting it caught up with the other platforms in content, but that’s also because the switch is the weakest capable platform to run the game on… right NOW this doesn’t mean much- but in the FUTURE… It may mean the Switch stops getting updates it can’t handle.

Aka the differences between GTA V on Xbox 360 or PS3 vs GTA V on Xbox One or Ps4- eventually the older platforms just can’t keep up with the larger updates and support for them end up being dropped.

Why am I saying all this? Well I would imagine that if an actual multiplayer crossplay version of dst was released it would need to be almost identical on every platform in terms of features and controls-

And currently It’s obviously nowhere near close. But the bottom line boils down to if Controllers can’t be improved to match with KB+Mouse, then KB+Mouse will need to be brought down to Controller levels of play.

You can’t even get mad about that it’s just expected.. it’s fair and it’s logical- this is however ONLY assuming Cross-Platform play ever becomes a real feature….

If Klei changes their mind and opts to Never make Cross-Play then I can careless how much better the PC version performs.. I only care when Those players end up in the same servers with me.

[Pig Princess]

@Faintly Macabre

On 8/31/2022 at 9:12 AM, Faintly Macabre said:

Holy cow. I really don't think the idea was "screw kb+m" players.

 

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

and for Cross-play to ever truly be taken seriously- All platforms will need to be on a level playing field.

 

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This May mean that certain platforms have to take a hit in what it’s capable of so all platforms perform roughly the same.. but surely Klei is no stranger to this.

 

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But the bottom line boils down to if Controllers can’t be improved to match with KB+Mouse, then KB+Mouse will need to be brought down to Controller levels of play.

See? I don't care about cross-play and don't plan to bully someone because of input device they use, yet according to Mike I would have to take hit for some reason as DST PC player. This is just spectacular showcase. Especially the last quote.

And this nonsense is everywhere on the forum, I can only hope devs won't implement this idea.

Although seeing last few changes to Dragonfly fight (that changed stuff to everyone including PC because controllers can't do this and that) I suspect DST will follow Dragon Age route.