Rain rituals needs to be kneecapped

[Gashzer]

Nah leave the rain book as is, you need to stay as wicker or maxwell to make use of it which is a big enough downside as is hehe

[WhackE]

1 minute ago, Bellium said:

By that logic all weather can be overcome by standing next to a fire/ endothermic-fire pit, which isn't wrong but it's hardly a productive use of precious survivall time! 

except the y'know the firepit moves with the boat... And that is the two other places you mentioned where wetness occurs. 

What is your point here exactly? Because I'm not saying what you just said here.

[Bellium]

4 minutes ago, WhackE said:

except the y'know the firepit moves with the boat

The firepit can't move with your boat if the boat is at the bottom of the ocean! I'm saying that if your boat breaks or you need to walk the plank for whatever reason then you're gonna get wet.

 

5 minutes ago, WhackE said:

literally the entirety of summer is invalidated with this one item.

All of summer is also invalidated with a sinkhole, but I don't hear people wanting to nerf the underground

 

[WhackE]

6 minutes ago, Bellium said:

The firepit can't move with your boat if the boat is at the bottom of the ocean! I'm saying that if your boat breaks or you need to walk the plank for whatever reason then you're gonna get wet.

Yeah, but I'd reason that, this scenario won't happen nearly often enough to justify using a book to remove the wetness, when I can just let myself dry off or stand near a fire, unless it's raining that is, and you have no wetness protection. Oh WAIT there's a book for that too.

I feel the need to mention again, all I'm asking for is to justifiably nerf Rain rituals. Not make it unusable or remove it. Just balance it a bit better I hope. And hey nerfing it might even make the temperature book even better.

[Bellium]

4 minutes ago, WhackE said:

this scenario won't happen nearly often enough to justify using a book to remove the wetness, when I can just let myself dry off or stand near a fire

Better to be prepared for every eventuality, not to mention if you ever go sailing in the seasons of the Spring or Autumn that the book is going to be useful, the book that protects you against the environment and climate protects you against water from the environment funnily enough.

5 minutes ago, WhackE said:

all I'm asking for is to justifiably nerf Rain rituals. Not make it unusable or remove it.

I feel like the book is in a healthy place as it is, the crafting requirments are what, a watering can and umbrella? Any more expensive than that and you may as well just use that umbrella in Spring and Summer and watering can any fires you see.

[WhackE]

Absolutely not. 
the current cost of the rain ritual you can amass them, because they're made with resources you're going to collect early on anyways
and it has 5 uses
and it REGENS FOR FREE IN THE BOOK CASE.

[MondayNight]

Even 2 Blue Gems for experienced players is nothing really - most such people rush Ruins 1st autumn and can bring around 10-15 Blue Gems easily. Bulk player-base Wickers most likely won't make Rain book even with current cost - higher cost will "kneecap" further solely the bracket least-likely to use Rain Rituals in first place; but you won't impede dedicated Wicker mains with 2 Blue Gems requirement, as stated - at most you delay them for a couple of in-game days. Lunar Grimoire was different, since advanced players have a wide use of it and earlier they can get their hands on, the better for them and their progress overall. Bulk player-base, again, will most likely never see the making of Moon Book. My final thoughts: Rain Rituals are ok as they are now, materials-wise.

[WhackE]

Finally someone reasonable, I agree with you mostly.

3 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

 but you won't impede dedicated Wicker mains with 2 Blue Gems requirement, as stated - at most you delay them for a couple of in-game days. 

And yes I understand this, but technically I could amass a large amount of any resource given enough time. it's still a very strong book with varied uses, I stand by my decision. 

If at the very least, the used drop to 3, I would consider it a decent nerf.

[Mr Giggio]

Just no.

Shes pretty fine the way it is now. Manipulating rain brings a lot, not just temperature control. She combos with Warly and this estimulates gameplay, which is healthy AND fun. You can argue whatever u want but reducing uses doesnt solve any of ur points here, if they was an issue in the first place what sorta doesnt.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Bellium said:

All of summer is also invalidated with a sinkhole, but I don't hear people wanting to nerf the underground

But that's not invalidating it though you've cut yourself off from most of the game's content to avoid it that's as far from invalidating it as you can get. While I don't feel rain is overpowered I feel like it's bad for the game in how it was handled it should be something you earn not something where you access instantly and delete seasons on a whim for everyone not just yourself makes the constant feel too tame and takes away from the chaotic nature and sense of growth as a player. Makes me feel like it wouldn't be too out there if Maxwell suddenly was able to change seasons or Wanda got a clock that instantly reset raid boss respawns I get trying to make the game easier but there's a point where it feels like your taking away from the game's identity in the process which is probably what makes these two books so hard for me to accept.

[maxwell_winters]

I recently got a lot of crap for saying the same about Rain Rituals. I still think that the recipe doesn't present enough of a skill gate for what it does, but if Klei thinks it's a good direction to make characters more powerful, then sure. However, there still needs to be a boss drop that summons rain. Like a Pan Flute to Sleepytime Stories.

[WhackE]

1 hour ago, MrSoratori said:

Just no.

Shes pretty fine the way it is now. Manipulating rain brings a lot, not just temperature control. She combos with Warly and this estimulates gameplay, which is healthy AND fun. You can argue whatever u want but reducing uses doesnt solve any of ur points here, if they was an issue in the first place what sorta doesnt.

Yeah it does bring a lot which is why it should be nerfed, this made up combo you have just happened to dream up isn't a thing. It doesn't "estimulate", saying stuff to sound smart wont make you correct.

The current recipe for what it's worth is not okay.

[Vasz_]

2 hours ago, Bellium said:

Any more expensive than that and you may as well just use that umbrella in Spring and Summer and watering can any fires you see.

Let's keep it real bro, nobody is doing that even if the book costed 10 blue gems or whatever.

[PetulantPansy]

Wicker isn't that powerful from a gameplay perspective even after the rework. From a lore perspective, she's really powerful. Nerfing all 3 of her interesting books (bee book/lunar book/rain book) just doesn't seem like the best way to go. 

 

I don't disagree with your points but for the sake of my wicker friends, I'd feel bad for them if 3 of the cooler books they were looking forward to all got nerfed before even making it to the live version. 

[Ohan]

6 hours ago, WhackE said:

turning off rain for barely any cost is insanely good

Bruh.. Did u mean to post this in maxwell memes instead? 

 

[Cheggf]

Idk why everybody was like "OMG (oh my goodness, for taking the Lord's name in vain is a sin)! Instead of going underground once per season I can make multiple of this book, go back to the bookcase every 2 days, and drain huge amounts of sanity, and then I don't need light! Those 30 second autumn nights are gonna be so easy now!" but was completely ignoring this book that invalidates 2 seasons.

Anyways I don't think it should be nerfed. WX already invalidates 2 seasons for 0 effort and cowardly players already invalidate 1 by just going underground. 

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Bruh.. Did u mean to post this in maxwell memes instead? 

 

Regardless of how anyone feels about it your talking about a book that turns off major game mechanics for some sanity it's powerful.

25 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Idk why everybody was like "OMG (oh my goodness, for taking the Lord's name in vain is a sin)! Instead of going underground once per season I can make multiple of this book, go back to the bookcase every 2 days, and drain huge amounts of sanity, and then I don't need light! Those 30 second autumn nights are gonna be so easy now!" but was completely ignoring this book that invalidates 2 seasons.

Anyways I don't think it should be nerfed. WX already invalidates 2 seasons for 0 effort and cowardly players already invalidate 1 by just going underground. 

Wx makes a sacrifice but i don't remember the patch note where his cooling circuit turned off wild fires but nice to see the moon strawman is holding strong. Limiting your range of activity doesn't feel like it's invalidating something to me tho.

[maxwell_winters]

1 hour ago, PetulantPansy said:

Wicker isn't that powerful from a gameplay perspective even after the rework. From a lore perspective, she's really powerful. Nerfing all 3 of her interesting books (bee book/lunar book/rain book) just doesn't seem like the best way to go. 

I don't disagree with your points but for the sake of my wicker friends, I'd feel bad for them if 3 of the cooler books they were looking forward to all got nerfed before even making it to the live version. 

I understand the desire to protect your favorite character but power is totally subjective. You can see on this forum that some people consider manipulating the moon cycle strong but some don't. 

I think frustration among players about Wicker's rework stems from the fact that there are characters who in their opinion have less utility but stronger downsides that cannot be negated even in the late game. They don't have personal vengeance against Wickerbottom and want to nerf her into the ground. They're just trying to understood why Wicker gets to control the elements and Them in the early game but Walter has to grind as hell to get ammo that deals the same DPS as a spear, for example.  

[Owlrust]

7 hours ago, Parusoid said:

7 hours ago, WhackE said:

Rain rituals is a book that can invalidate 2 seasons

Thermal stone is an item that can invalidate 2 seasons, overheating and freezing is no longer an issue, should we kneecap it too?

To add to that, WX's Blue & Red Gem circuits invalidate 2 seasons in their entirety. Put on the thermal circuit and you've beaten Winter, vice versa for the other one for Summer.

[PetulantPansy]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Idk why everybody was like "OMG (oh my goodness, for taking the Lord's name in vain is a sin)! Instead of going underground once per season I can make multiple of this book, go back to the bookcase every 2 days, and drain huge amounts of sanity, and then I don't need light! Those 30 second autumn nights are gonna be so easy now!" but was completely ignoring this book that invalidates 2 seasons.

Anyways I don't think it should be nerfed. WX already invalidates 2 seasons for 0 effort and cowardly players already invalidate 1 by just going underground. 

Weren't some people looking for newer mechanics? 

Well wait no longer! Now introducing the monsoon season  

31 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

I understand the desire to protect your favorite character but power is totally subjective. You can see on this forum that some people consider manipulating the moon cycle strong but some don't. 

I think frustration among players about Wicker's rework stems from the fact that there are characters who in their opinion have less utility but stronger downsides that cannot be negated even in the late game. They don't have personal vengeance against Wickerbottom and want to nerf her into the ground. They're just trying to understood why Wicker gets to control the elements and Them in the early game but Walter has to grind as hell to get ammo that deals the same DPS as a spear, for example.  

i dont play wicker a lot - not that it matters.

But your argument sounds like this to me: "my character sucks so i need to make other survivors suck too". That sounds like a terrible argument. Each character excels at their own areas (unless you're wes/walter, etc). These comparisons are not constructive. 

The rain book is powerful but there's no need to act like players haven't had to deal with rain until wicker shows up. 

[xxXolot]

6 hours ago, PetulantPansy said:

But your argument sounds like this to me: "my character sucks so i need to make other survivors suck too". That sounds like a terrible argument. Each character excels at their own areas (unless you're wes/walter, etc). These comparisons are not constructive. 

I think @maxwell_winters is just trying to say this may have been what other felt. His opinion is that "the recipe doesn't present enough of a skill gate for what it does" and I think that is a perfectly valid opinion.

[Bronzebot]

 

I wholeheartedly agree that the recipe for the book should be changed.

Manipulating rain from the cost of an item that doesn't even offer 100% protection on its own, 3 grass and 8 logs is extremely cheap, even cheaper than Tempering Temperatures, as it can be made without the bookcase.
From a singleplayer standpoint, it might just be viewed as an alternative to rain gear or summer equipment for the lone player, and that's fine.
But in a multiplayer scenario, it is pretty unreasonable for an item that not only removes the challenge of spring & partly summer for one player, but for all (technically an infinite number) of players anywhere on the surface at such a small cost.

It just doesn't sit right with me, the thought that a server of 12 to 16 players can all ignore the whole idea of rain gear because one character can remove the actual concept of rain at such a low price. To me, that's absurd.

I like the way the book itself works. Being able to summon rain for electrical combat or to aid a bigger farm is a great concept in and of itself. I think desummoning rain would be a lot more fair if the book was locked behind needing the bookshelf and required more exotic components, like Spittlefish, water balloons or even a raincoat.
Altering the recipe doesn't make the item itself any less useful, it only moves it to a later stage of the game.

[Bellium]

20 minutes ago, Bronzebot said:

like Spittlefish, water balloons or even a raincoat.

Honestly I really like this suggestion of some exotic items that aren't ridiculous to get while also being closely thematic to the craft instead of just thinking of the most expensive losely connected item possible 

[maxwell_winters]

5 minutes ago, PetulantPansy said:

But your argument sounds like this to me: "my character sucks so i need to make other survivors suck too". That sounds like a terrible argument. Each character excels at their own areas (unless you're wes/walter, etc). These comparisons are not constructive. 

No, I meant it in a way "Why this character can do THAT but another character can't even do this?". People cannot stop comparing things, it's in their nature. It's justifiable to demand an equal treatment for characters (except for Wes, the challenge). I think most characters are in a good spot and have utility in both early and late game but some are thrown under the bus even after the reworks, often becoming subjects of discussions like "What's the point of W if W exists", "W has no late game" or "W is a swap character". 

And Walter isn't a challenge character like Wes. Nobody would complain about him if he was advertised as such with "none" in chances of survival.

Anyway, that's purely my theory, and it's beside the point. We're talking about the rain book here.  

[Arcwell]