Serious question

[maxwell_winters]

1 minute ago, xxXolot said:

I don't really get why people really think the full moon is OP

No need for a light source in the game where darkness is one of the main threats. Werepigs are valuable mobs that drop good resources. In the normal setting you get them for free every 20 days which isn't generous. But with the book you can get them for free every 4 days which is broken. 

Full moons were designed as a little bonus for every 2.5 hours in the game. It isn't something you should abuse at will.

4 minutes ago, xxXolot said:

The only thing I am a bit concerned with is that people who rely on pigs get greatly in danger if Wicker decide to troll them with full moon whenever they recruit pigs.

Thank you for pointing out another issue that completely went over my head. 

[xxXolot]

12 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

No need for a light source in the game where darkness is one of the main threats.

As I said that is just one inventory space for every player. I am not sure I count Darkness being main threats since everyone learns to counter it day one.
 

12 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Werepigs are valuable mobs that drop good resources. 

They drop good resources because it's a reward for beating this particular hostile mob, not because full moon. if anything full moon cause multiple pig to transform which make it harder to get this resource because harder to kite / multiple Werepigs eats those loot, it would probably be better to just feed 4 monster meat to get said loot safely and not lose it to other Werepigs too.

I quite don't see Full Moon as 2.5hr bonus when people made sure they should always have light source on them at all time anyway. If anything I goes more "Oh oops today is full moon I just wasted a campfire / a fuel in fire pit lol"

[maxwell_winters]

 

9 minutes ago, xxXolot said:

 They drop good resources because it's a reward for beating this particular hostile mob, not because full moon.

They drop good resources in trade for mediocre resources. Once every 2.5 hours they have a massive sale where you can get said resources for free. But now this sale can be every 32 minutes. The economy is broken. 

9 minutes ago, xxXolot said:

if anything full moon cause multiple pig to transform which make it harder to get this resource because harder to kite / multiple Werepigs eats those loot,

Pig farms make werepig farming extremely easy. Doing it every 20 day is a bonus. Doing it every 4 days is broken. Normal meat is supposed to be harder to get. 

[Electroely]

51 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

They're leaving it out of the discussion because it's so minor it's almost non existent with basic knowledge of sanity restoration methods.

It's not that minor. Of course you're going to be doing things better if you've got the resources, but it takes time to get those resources.

There's only two sources of green caps; one of them needs living logs and the other relies entirely on world generation and rain.
Kelp stalks can only be obtained overseas, and it takes time to harvest, hang, and harvest them again. Those drying racks take a good amount of resources to build, too.
Cactus is entirely reliant on world generation. Banana bushes are only obtainable from an island and have to be built up over time. Fish for Surf 'n Turf take time to fish up if not using a cannon or trawler (resources) or a trident (boss drop). Lureplants take time to show up and beeboxes for honey have to be setup with both the beeboxes themselves and the flowers.

Is the book good? Yes. but it's not like it's without downside, even if you keep three of them in a bookcase. You're spending extra time to recover that lost sanity (especially if you're using more than just that one book) and I think that's perfectly acceptable when it's largely just to eliminate darkness.

9 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

No need for a light source in the game where darkness is one of the main threats

Darkness is not a main threat. Darkness is the thing that gets you when you first play the game and don't realize that the darkness is sentient and is out to get you. After that it's just an inconvenience that takes up an inventory slot or two, makes you visit the caves every now and then and makes you more cautious during combat. To spend time and resources to get rid of that inconvenience sounds perfectly acceptable to me.

Mentioning Werepigs is a better point, though I think it's fine because Wickerbottom's always been the mass resource production character. If you're playing Wickerbottom and you set yourself up a good amount of pig houses I think it's fair to get to use them like that (plus you still need to actually fight them). You get to make an armor and a weapon more easily as well as food, but none of those things would be a big issue later on (when you'd have set up a pig farm) anyway.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Electroely said:

t's not that minor. Of course you're going to be doing things better if you've got the resources, but it takes time to get those resources.

There's only two sources of green caps; one of them needs living logs and the other relies entirely on world generation and rain.
Kelp stalks can only be obtained overseas, and it takes time to harvest, hang, and harvest them again. Those drying racks take a good amount of resources to build, too.
Cactus is entirely reliant on world generation. Banana bushes are only obtainable from an island and have to be built up over time. Fish for Surf 'n Turf take time to fish up if not using a cannon or trawler (resources) or a trident (boss drop). Lureplants take time to show up and beeboxes for honey have to be setup with both the beeboxes themselves and the flowers.

Is the book good? Yes. but it's not like it's without downside, even if you keep three of them in a bookcase. You're spending extra time to recover that lost sanity (especially if you're using more than just that one book) and I think that's perfectly acceptable when it's largely just to eliminate darkness.

There's still bee boxes but yea it's a cost but it's not a heavy cost nor one that can't be resolved early on with minimal investment I don't get where the idea comes from that because sanity restoration doesn't fall out of the sky that sanity is a serious issue for a item used in a controlled environment.

Edit: Also how in the world are we still on the topic of getting rid of darkness being the big thing the full moon does when it comes with so many other benefits.

7 minutes ago, Electroely said:

Darkness is not a main threat. Darkness is the thing that gets you when you first play the game and don't realize that the darkness is sentient and is out to get you. After that it's just an inconvenience that takes up an inventory slot or two, makes you visit the caves every now and then and makes you more cautious during combat. To spend time and resources to get rid of that inconvenience sounds perfectly acceptable to me.

Darkness is a major mechanic that you have to play around and is the constant killer of many players to the point a end game item's effect is permanent wearable light.

[maxwell_winters]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

There's still bee boxes but yea it's a cost but it's not a heavy cost nor one that can't be resolved early on with minimal investment I don't get where the idea comes from that because sanity restoration doesn't fall out of the sky that sanity is a serious issue for a item used in a controlled environment.

Speaking of controlled environment, there is also a Lunar Island which is now even better test area for all Wickerbottom's hijinks. Neither gestalts bother her anymore, nor shadow creatures can spawn for reading at 0 sanity. 

[Ohan]

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Darkness is a major mechanic that you have to play around and is the constant killer of many players to the point a end game item's effect is permanent wearable light.

You must just be trolling at this point. 

5 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

They're leaving it out of the discussion because it's so minor it's almost non existent with basic knowledge of sanity restoration methods.

Lmao. The ole “if theres a remedy = the downside doesnt exist”.

You sound like you play a lot of wickerbottom. 

[skile]

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Walter's cursed rounds...

Edit: Now that I think about it why is Walter the only character in the game forced to keep revisiting the ruins to craft a character specific consumable item...

because pain is part of his kit, apparently.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Ohan said:

Lmao. The ole “if theres a remedy = the downside doesnt exist”.

You sound like you play a lot of wickerbottom.

So your saying that your forced to read books in disadvantageous positions? Or are you saying you can't completely nullify the effects of her books with sanity food right after you read the books? I've agreed there's a cost but I feel like it's obvious the cost isn't something major unless I'm missing something in your sarcastic comment of "You sound like you play a lot of Wickerbottom" Does she have some major active sanity drain I'm missing or something that'll cripple her unexpectly because last I checked she didn't much like how people felt Wolfgang just eating to get mighty was too minor a downside.

 

2 hours ago, Ohan said:

You must just be trolling at this point. 

Am I really though I'm willing to bet if we had a statistic darkness would be one of the leading causes of player death sure more experienced players are rarely going to die to darkness and there are specific characters who trivialize darkness as a mechanic with the balance shift of dst but if your not playing those characters or benefiting from them darkness is a mechanic you have to actively play around this is why the star caller staff is a ruins item and not some common drop you can craft on the surface.

[Parusoid]

Exactly, Wickerbottom now shines with powerful spells but people want to nerf her. As if she was ever a threat. They cry she is boring yet she can change moon phase and call rain at  will. They want her to be unique yet preach that everyone should have access to rain summoning item (not realising they already have acces to telelocator staff)

And Im already sick and tired of claim that if it affects whole server its bad. Its not the only thing that can affect whole server, and if you have concerns about being trolled then use report, kick and rollback features or simply play with people you trust, its that simple.

Trolls can troll with anything anytime, they dont need wickerbottom and her books to wreak havoc. When people are rude and want to make the day worse for other players they will do it, and its not any item's or character's fault - its the player's

[maradyne]

Woodie should be given some way to deal with full moons regardless of what Wicker has. Moonstorm sucks for him.

 

I'd like if having a Moonrock Idol in his inventory would act similarly to Wilba's necklace, personally.

[maxwell_winters]

58 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

Exactly, Wickerbottom now shines with powerful spells but people want to nerf her. As if she was ever a threat. 

Nobody is saying these books should be removed. I'm in favor of them staying but for more expensive price. I might not be a game designer but I know that in a good game effort must be equal to the reward. In this case, the reward is enormous and the effort is minimal. Using rain and moon books feel unsatisfying because I didn't earn them through hard work. 

1 hour ago, Parusoid said:

not realising they already have acces to telelocator staff

Ttelelocator staff is expensive and cannot stop the rain. It has a different purpose, rain-summoning is just a byproduct. 

[Parusoid]

2 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Ttelelocator staff is expensive 

You complain about not putting enough hard work to achieve rain, yet when it actually is expensive.... you still complain.. like? ?????????

[maxwell_winters]

3 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

what about that thing you said that if reward is enormous the effort cannot be minimal?

It's not as good as the rain book. When you use the rain book, you know for sure the rain is gonna start and how much sanity will you use. Telelocator staff may be used 2-3 times to start the rain. It also summons lightnings and cannot stop the rain.

The actual question should be: Why out of 2 rain-summoning items, the one who uses basic resources is way more effective than the one that uses magic-tier resources? 

[Parusoid]

4 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

The actual question should be: Why out of 2 rain-summoning items, the one who uses basic resources is way more effective than the one that uses magic-tier resources? 

Why not? Its not competetive game, its not contest, its exclusive to character so should be unique.
Its more effective for the same reason why Soul Hop if more efficient than Telepoof, Lucy more efficient than Axe, and Battle Spear better than Spear

Should we also ignore cheap cost of other powerful items or we hatin only books? There is no reason for an old lady to not be able to publish her own books for a low cost 

[maxwell_winters]

10 hours ago, Parusoid said:

Why not?

I'm sorry but this discussion is going nowhere. I'm explaining to you that there are things in this rework that break the game design (the reward ≠ the price) but all I see in response "Why can't Wicker be OP? I want her to be OP. There is no reason why she shouldn't be OP". 

[Mysterious box]

37 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

Why not? Its not competetive game, its not contest, its exclusive to character so should be unique.
Its more effective for the same reason why Soul Hop if more efficient than Telepoof, Lucy more efficient than Axe, and Battle Spear better than Spear

While your not wrong the difference is a matter of scale the basic soul hop is a alright perk but nothing extreme, Lucy is decent but there are many things that exceed her including woodie himself(beaver), battle spear is just a slightly better spear which is equally slightly more expensive. What I'd compare the moon book to is Wanda's backtrek watch in it's current state I see it like Kiel removing tusks from it's requirement and adding moon rocks instead and even if the iridescent gem becomes the cost it'll still be easy enough to make multiple books.

[LitulLola]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:08 PM, Mysterious box said:

Fair enough personally I do feel like some of the books have crossed the line of what I felt should be left to character perks myself but I also understand the game is leaning harder into being a power fantasy sandbox so I feel like I can understand the heavy nerf mentality.

Not necessarily. If you solo a survival world without touching any of the world settings or  the portal. U can choose what new perks or food sources u want to utilize. You can still play the game the way we've always played it. Klei has added these settings so new players don't get their arse handed to them in hopes they may stick with the game upping the difficulty as they learn. I'm just worried if we keep nerfing characters then we will continue to nerf threats because ppl can't handle them. I just don't like nerfing friend or foe. I'd like our characters to grow with growing threats. We have no idea what they have in mind down the road, they may be buffing survivors to handle the threats they have in mind (2023)

[Mysterious box]

30 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

Not necessarily. If you solo a survival world without touching any of the world settings or  the portal. U can choose what new perks or food sources u want to utilize. You can still play the game the way we've always played it. Klei has added these settings so new players don't get their arse handed to them in hopes they may stick with the game upping the difficulty as they learn. I'm just worried if we keep nerfing characters then we will continue to nerf threats because ppl can't handle them. I just don't like nerfing friend or foe. I'd like our characters to grow with growing threats.

The thing is there hasn't been a character a character nerf outside of farming update as far as I'm aware but the main wickerbottom book people take issue with isn't going to be very useful to a new player using wicker it's going to be useful to a more experienced player who will likely be guiding/carrying them technically the book could be seen as bad for new players learning the game specifically because they could get the idea not fear darkness which can lead to death in the absence of wickerbottom.

36 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

We have no idea what they have in mind down the road, they may be buffing survivors to handle the threats they have in mind (2023)

Not to reopen what are pretty fresh wounds but I believe how moon quay was handled effectively killed any hope of that do I believe more challenging content may be added possibly but I feel we now know it'll try it's hardest to avoid the player and avoid inconveniencing the player unless we're absolutely sure about participating.