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I think we need to remove maxwells ability to read wickers books


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LIke for real this update just fully cemented wicker as a swap character even more.

you only need to play wicker for the initial crafting of books and book cases.

If you were to craft every book with its stand alone book case
you will never need a wicker again.

Why play wicker when you can play maxwell and have most of the benefits of wicker MInus the hp and higher max sanity.

But you also get the benefits of base sanity regen  and shadow minons?


 

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Okay. No. Wicker is not and has never been a swap character. If you main maxwell and want wickerbottom books, then sure. But maxwell is ONE character who can use her books. She isnt a switch. Its an annoying repetitive argument that has been made 30 times since her rework. Quit it

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13 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Okay. No. Wicker is not and has never been a swap character. If you main maxwell and want wickerbottom books, then sure. But maxwell is ONE character who can use her books. She isnt a switch. Its an annoying repetitive argument that has been made 30 times since her rework. Quit it

That’s like saying they want to add a new character to the game named Winston, and Winston having tragically lost his family in a strange library fire- has deep connections to the deceased, which means he can interact with and summon Abigail to help him.

Its taking a character who should be unique to themselves and making them less unique  by letting another character do everything they can.

We gonna add Wolfpact to the game next? Who gets absolutely ripped working out on muscle building Gyms and can use Wolfgang’s kit & powers?

this kind of thought process belongs in MODS meanwhile- let each playable character shine in their own unique rights… Thats something I hope to see reflected in both Wickers current, and Maxwells future reworks.

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3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

That’s like saying they want to add a new character to the game named Winston, and Winston having tragically lost his family in a strange library fire- has deep connections to the deceased, which means he can interact with and summon Abigail to help him.

 

No it isnt. Your statement is making an entire character who just directly rips off another character. This situation is continuing to allow one magical character to use another magical characters magic. Two entirely different situations, they arent even comparable. Maxwell literally uses magic from a book and wickerbottom just writes magical books. Itd be odd if maxwell couldn’t use some of the books. If they decide to not let him use some due to balance or whatever fine. But she isnt a switch. If you want to play her as one, thats your business, but it makes perfect thematic sense to allow maxwell to use her books. And it creates a great synergy that doesnt feel forced in the slightest between the TWO actually magic characters.

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Switching to whom and for what? Maxwell is in the dire state at this point. Reworked Wes feels more powerful than him. Switching for him to get wood and stone is just a waste of time. Unlike Maxwell, Wicker has higher HP and immunity to gestalts and Berger's yawn. All Maxwell has is an in-built Tam'o'shanter and crappy combat minions. The only exclusive thing Maxwell has is minions that dig up stumps. To which I say, just get a shovel and hold a space button when picking up wood Bearger or pigs fell down. Digs up the stumps and picks up the logs. 

It seems some people are just addicted to Celestial Portal. Switching characters for the sake of switching characters even if  it makes zero sense.  

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46 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Switching to whom and for what? Maxwell is in the dire state at this point. Reworked Wes feels more powerful than him. Switching for him to get wood and stone is just a waste of time. Unlike Maxwell, Wicker has higher HP and immunity to gestalts and Berger's yawn. All Maxwell has is an in-built Tam'o'shanter and crappy combat minions. The only exclusive thing Maxwell has is minions that dig up stumps. To which I say, just get a shovel and hold a space button when picking up wood Bearger or pigs fell down. Digs up the stumps and picks up the logs. 

It seems some people are just addicted to Celestial Portal. Switching characters for the sake of switching characters even if  it makes zero sense.  

Thing is if you compare to what wicker has vs what maxwell has there is a problem

wicker has                                                                  Maxwell has        
book usage and crafting                                           Usage of all books
Immune to sleep                                                      better resource gathering
has trouble managing sanity                                     Consistent sanity regen  and ability to use tents
Higher max sanity below average health                  Half normal max hp.                          

maxwell basically gets all of wickers perks with none of the downsides.
And all he has to do is trade the higher max health and sanity of wicker

Thats a really dang good deal

And if you choose to not take advantage of that sure you can do that.

I don't swap characters myself and i use pigs to chop wood.
but i play wendy which is easier to collect meat for pigs.


 

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...I mean... Why CAN maxwell read her books to the exact same effect though??? It would be more interesting if he refused to use birds of the world as it is "A terrible waste of magic" lol....but who knows what will happen with maxwell, we haven't really gotten to him yet, and he is far more challenging to play as than Wickerbottom, with his negligible hp. Whatever the devs do with this rework, they may need to tweak some of the other characters to make this work seamlessly.

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54 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

Usage of all books

If Wicker isn't around her bookshelf, the regen is twice as low. So you will be forced to wait twice as long to use the book.

54 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

better resource gathering

Do you know that you can summon only maximum 4 harvesters and it lowers your maximum sanity to 20% while you can recruit the unlimited amount of pigs and get a sanity bonus from being near them? Wurt is more efficient at gathering, btw. If you wanna get a lot of resource, switch to her. You don't even have to craft merm house and only use naturally-spawned merm

54 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

Consistent sanity regen  and ability to use tents

Sanity food and clothing exist. 

We should come back to this discussion after Maxwell's rework. Now the poor man has nothing. Don't take away the books, too.  

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43 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

Thing is if you compare to what wicker has vs what maxwell has there is a problem

wicker has                                                                  Maxwell has        
book usage and crafting                                           Usage of all books
Immune to sleep                                                      better resource gathering
has trouble managing sanity                                     Consistent sanity regen  and ability to use tents
Higher max sanity below average health                  Half normal max hp.                          

maxwell basically gets all of wickers perks with none of the downsides.
And all he has to do is trade the higher max health and sanity of wicker

Thats a really dang good deal

And if you choose to not take advantage of that sure you can do that.

I don't swap characters myself and i use pigs to chop wood.
but i play wendy which is easier to collect meat for pigs.


 

Yea no still falls into Wickerbottom's favor her sleep immunity is not a minor perk and having constant sanity regen is fine but sanity food is plentiful and sanity clothing is very powerful as well. Not to mention lunar island/grotto can remove sanity management when casting anyway. The only thing maxwell adds is resource collection atm.

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19 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Yea no still falls into Wickerbottom's favor her sleep immunity is not a minor perk and having constant sanity regen is fine but sanity food is plentiful and sanity clothing is very powerful as well. Not to mention lunar island/grotto can remove sanity management when casting anyway. The only thing maxwell adds is resource collection atm.

That all comes down to preferences and what the player values.
so though those are valid points  it ultimately is based on each individual player.
regardless if you can provide reasoning against it

 

29 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

If Wicker isn't around her bookshelf, the regen is twice as low. So you will be forced to wait twice as long to use the book.

Do you know that you can summon only maximum 4 harvesters and it lowers your maximum sanity to 20% while you can recruit the unlimited amount of pigs and get a sanity bonus from being near them? Wurt is more efficient at gathering, btw. If you wanna get a lot of resource, switch to her. You don't even have to craft merm house and only use naturally-spawned merm

Sanity food and clothing exist. 

We should come back to this discussion after Maxwell's rework. Now the poor man has nothing. Don't take away the books, too.  

maxwell is a great starter
wurt is better for late game  when you have all that but minons are far better early game.  since you don't need to be near a merm or have a bunch of pigs nearby to farm.

sanity and stuff does exist but that doesnt exuse that people still have problems with wicker

 

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4 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

maxwell is a great starter
wurt is better for late game  when you have all that but minons are far better early game.  since you don't need to be near a merm or have a bunch of pigs nearby to farm.

I feel like people forget that rundown shacks hold 4 merms at a time like you don't have to even make merm huts to use merms.

 

5 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

sanity and stuff does exist but that doesnt exuse that people still have problems with wicker

Probably not the people getting a bunch of purple gems and moon rocks for character switching.

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13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I feel like people forget that rundown shacks hold 4 merms at a time like you don't have to even make merm huts to use merms.

 

Probably not the people getting a bunch of purple gems and moon rocks for character switching.

the thing you are arguing though also goes in the aspect of what i am saying too
What if a person perfers to do maxwell instead of dealing with wurts downsides?
theres so many possibilities that we cant even fathom based on player and preferences.
 
But for sure though based on stats
wicker vs maxwell now
only difference is that wicker cant eat stale is immune to sleep and has slightly higher stats.

considering for the fact if both were to have infinite books


 

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I don't think this is a real problem right now because Maxwell is so weak. Playing Maxwell and reading Wicker's books gives you different pros and cons. But I don't think Maxwell really outshines or is flat out  better than Wickerbottom. As it is right now it's really not a problem. 

If Maxwell gets refreshed and he becomes super strong and much better than Wicker to play as, I could see this being a problem. Maybe then they could make it so that he reads books at double durability so he's less efficient. Or just turn it off completely if it's that big a concern. Or maybe more interestingly, maybe Wicker could also use the Umbral Codex. That would be interesting if they could use each other's books...

I think have unique interactions between characters brings a lot of flavor to the game. I don't think it is creating a severe balance problem right now. IF it were ever the case that I would feel way outclassed playing Wicker compared to Maxwell, then yes some action should be taken. 

But I don't think anything has to be done until Maxwell's refresh. 

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17 minutes ago, Noaa said:

 

and that is the point really We are going to see what klei is going to do.
They already removed a synergy with wx and wickerbottom and exchanged it for winona and her generators
consider the fact that Maxwell was only given his shadow puppet stuff
he still has his refresh coming
and i feel they are going to remove this synergy just cause i think klei knows that the community doesn't want swap characters.
Why do you think everyone dislikes the way winona works?
Because she is the epitome of swap characters.
 

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5 hours ago, Jinjetica said:

...I mean... Why CAN maxwell read her books to the exact same effect though??? It would be more interesting if he refused to use birds of the world as it is "A terrible waste of magic" lol....

Why on earth would he say that food is a terrible waste of magic? 

 

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8 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

LIke for real this update just fully cemented wicker as a swap character even more.

you only need to play wicker for the initial crafting of books and book cases.

If you were to craft every book with its stand alone book case
you will never need a wicker again.

Why play wicker when you can play maxwell and have most of the benefits of wicker MInus the hp and higher max sanity.

But you also get the benefits of base sanity regen  and shadow minons?


 

I refuse to play 75 hp char, I take wicker over maxwell anyday 

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7 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

If Wicker isn't around her bookshelf, the regen is twice as low. So you will be forced to wait twice as long to use the book.

Presuming Wicker spends all her time around a bookshelf.

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3 hours ago, Parusoid said:

I refuse to play 75 hp char, I take wicker over maxwell anyday 

Cool go ahead and do that
That is exactly what I want people to do
So that way each character has their own unique traits to them.
So where you should stay as the character to reap the benefits of playing them.

9 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:
9 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

Usage of all books

If Wicker isn't around her bookshelf, the regen is twice as low. So you will be forced to wait twice as long to use the book.

Even so What book are you using more than 80 times in 10 days?

The only way i see that being a thing is if you are non stop farming an automated farm with lureplants and such
But then again  each lureplant only gives you 15 slots of items of whatever you are farming.
most of the times people are not mass farming  like that consistently  they do it every so often when the resources are needed.
80 uses on  krampus farm? would probably do that in one whole session. and you can only do it during the day and dusk as the birds try to fly at night when spawning. so it will take a few days.  Plus you can even swap them out so if you have 2 book cases of the heavy use ones. If constant farming.
is done. 80 uses 10 days swap them let them charge as you have 80 more uses.


 

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1 hour ago, EsaiXD said:

Cool go ahead and do that
That is exactly what I want people to do
So that way each character has their own unique traits to them.
So where you should stay as the character to reap the benefits of playing them.

Even so What book are you using more than 80 times in 10 days?

The only way i see that being a thing is if you are non stop farming an automated farm with lureplants and such
But then again  each lureplant only gives you 15 slots of items of whatever you are farming.
most of the times people are not mass farming  like that consistently  they do it every so often when the resources are needed.
80 uses on  krampus farm? would probably do that in one whole session. and you can only do it during the day and dusk as the birds try to fly at night when spawning. so it will take a few days.  Plus you can even swap them out so if you have 2 book cases of the heavy use ones. If constant farming.
is done. 80 uses 10 days swap them let them charge as you have 80 more uses.


 

Bro. Just stop it, almost no one is going to agree with youz You’re arguing with like 5 people for nothing.

you are allowed to FEEL as though wickerbottom is a switch. But almost no one is agreeing with you

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1 minute ago, Copyafriend said:

Bro. Just stop it, almost no one is going to agree with youz You’re arguing with like 5 people for nothing.

you are allowed to FEEL as though wickerbottom is a switch. But almost no one is agreeing with you

And this is the forums  which im allowed to say things.
just cause there are a few people here that don't agree with me doesn't mean that its not a valid point
a lot of times this site honestly is nothing but a big circle jerk.
"This is not how i feel about it so your thoughts are invalid."
The thing is there is always going to be different ways to play this game.

I play wendy and i like to farm spiders

someone else may think im bad because you can just automate spider farming with bunnymen.
Does that make my way of play invalid?
no it doesn't we just enjoy things differently.

And the thing is Why the heck does it matter so much to you if maxwell does or doesnt have this?
You already said to me you wern't going to swap and that you would rather stay wicker.

You are trying to argue to me the idea of wicker not being a swap character.

But instead you gave me arguments of why you don't like maxwell

like cool if you don't want to play maxwell  thats fine
but That does not deny that it is an option people can take
Whether or not you or the other people here like maxwell is beyond the conversation.

Because the thing is some people would think like you and believe its not worth changing to maxwell and deal with his downsides

and others would think its more beneficial Because not only do you get wickerbottoms perk books but you also get the abilities of maxwell
its all based on how the players think. 
And it changes depending on who you ask.

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6 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

And this is the forums  which im allowed to say things.
just cause there are a few people here that don't agree with me doesn't mean that its not a valid point
a lot of times this site honestly is nothing but a big circle jerk.
"This is not how i feel about it so your thoughts are invalid."
The thing is there is always going to be different ways to play this game.

I play wendy and i like to farm spiders

someone else may think im bad because you can just automate spider farming with bunnymen.
Does that make my way of play invalid?
no it doesn't we just enjoy things differently.

And the thing is Why the heck does it matter so much to you if maxwell does or doesnt have this?
You already said to me you wern't going to swap and that you would rather stay wicker.

You are trying to argue to me the idea of wicker not being a swap character.

But instead you gave me arguments of why you don't like maxwell

like cool if you don't want to play maxwell  thats fine
but That does not deny that it is an option people can take
Whether or not you or the other people here like maxwell is beyond the conversation.

Because the thing is some people would think like you and believe its not worth changing to maxwell and deal with his downsides

and others would think its more beneficial Because not only do you get wickerbottoms perk books but you also get the abilities of maxwell
its all based on how the players think. 
And it changes depending on who you ask.

Okay. To start: yes i have gave reasons as to why he should keep it. I said it makes sense thematically, and i said it works well as a synergy between the two characters.

secondly: i do not have to give reasons as to why maxwell should be able to use wickerbottoms books. He has been able to for so long its standard in his character, and a sort of mini perk for him. The burden is on YOU to explain why he shouldn’t be able to do it. Which your argument pretty much boils down to your personal distaste, and balance reasons.

thirdly: considering that your personal distaste is about as relevant as my personal preference to keep it, aka not at all relevant, we must discuss whether this is unbalanced for maxwell to be able to use wickerbottoms books. And the answer most people have given is that maxwel sucks, so he should keep it. In other words complaining about maxwell is actually relevant in the discussion of whether he should keep his bonus perk. 
 

as a side note: i do not think wendy is unbalanced. If you have a personal vendetta against others in the forum about the “wendy op” meme, keep it to them, because i am not part of it. 


Finally and most importantly of all: why i said to drop it:

You have invaded like three threads and created one of your own that you keep on the front pge by constantly talkint about the exact same thing. Im saying to drop it because i dont want to see five discussions about the exact same thing on the front page. I want new information, if no one is postinf any i’ll wait, but im checking in on this once every hour or so out of boredom and i keep seeinf the same three discussions about whether maxwell should keep being able to use the book and you are in every single one. It is fine to be passionate it is fine to have an opinion that is different. I just dont want to see it so much. Especially when its not so much a back and forth between five people, as it is just you versus four people. We got your opinion, we heard it, let it rest.

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I don't see how this is any different between switching from Warly to someone else to eat his food, which most people say isn't a problem. If anything, the Wicker+Maxwell thing is more balanced because you can only use one of two characters instead of the whole roster.

Give Wickerbottom more personal perks, but the interaction between the two of them is fine

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