Better Bookcase regen proof of concept

[Primalflower]

4 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Imo the problem is, the passive one is just... free. Totally free minus cost of bookshelf. And anything else in game you need to refuel of fix, or to have extremely expensive to have it free. Wickerbottom books itself are like cheat codes (don't misunderstood me here, I don't have anything against them), so you kinda get infinite cheat codes without any real maintaining.

They're not free, they're just very good. Frequent use of books as wicker requires constantly fighting shadow creatures, especially ones you want to repeat consecutively. This is without a doubt a drawback for a variety of reasons. Though in spite of that, they feel good to use. I think thats how it should be, and I enjoy wickerbottom a lot in her current state where i found her sad and boring before. Its okay for a character to be very powerful..!

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 hours ago, ADM said:

Snip

Why don't I just make 16 bookcases filled with all the books I'm likely to be spamming anyways.

I'd rather make a book and forget about it. We already used to make 20 of one book just to use up all of them in one day. Why can't we move on from that?

14 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Totally free minus cost of bookshelf.

Wanda's items that go on cool down are also free use after crafting them once just gotta wait.

It's just old people power...

[ADM]

22 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Why don't I just make 16 bookcases filled with all the books I'm likely to be spamming anyways.

I'd rather make a book and forget about it. We already used to make 20 of one book just to use up all of them in one day. Why can't we move on from that?

I wouldn't see something wrong with that since it's likely what people we'll be doing at the current state since it's full profit from doing nothing no ? Works for me in both case in term of storing, I hate having tons of junks around so under this concept I wouldn't be needing tons of books. But that's just my preference here.

[HowlVoid]

I don't see why this idea and the current way the bookcase works can't coexist.

Lower the bookcases overall repair over time a bit and add the repair kit which can boost the book cases overall regen AND fully repair a single book per use on the go.

Then you can play casually without intense reading or abuse of the books or prepare for some mad reading time. Though Wicker would still be the only one capable of using the kits and this gives her an advantage over other characters using her books but does not outright deny some book sharing (or make book sharing harder).

[Mike23Ua]

15 hours ago, Masterblaster38 said:

Oh my god not the "so wickerbottom doesn't become a swap character" I like the idea a little but do do everything for this, if you think like that everyone is a swap character, worlfgang for bosses, wickerbottom for farms.

It is a part of the Game you aren't obligated to use, you aren't required to use It at any moment in the game It is also late game, not something you can do early game.

It can also be completely toggled Off in world settings… so it’s an optional feature, it’s there if you want it in your game session- but you can also force the entire server into not being able to use it when they join your worlds if you want.

”Your World, Your Rules..”

I’m pretty sure the bookshelf auto repairing books by itself is fine- it’s a magic Bookshelf.. not a table you play Book Doctor with requiring Winona’s Duct Tape + a Book at a crafting station.

[Cloakingsumo198]

26 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I don't see why this idea and the current way the bookcase works can't coexist.

Lower the bookcases overall repair over time a bit and add the repair kit which can boost the book cases overall regen AND fully repair a single book per use on the go.

Then you can play casually without intense reading or abuse of the books or prepare for some mad reading time. Though Wicker would still be the only one capable of using the kits and this gives her an advantage over other characters using her books but does not outright deny some book sharing (or make book sharing harder).

[Jinjetica]

17 hours ago, ADM said:

• The books no longer repair by themselves
• There's a new "craft" exclusive to the station, Reading Material
• Upon building, the Bookcase will receive a buff for 4mins, repairing the books within over time, at a generous rate
  • This could really be tuned in hundreds of different ways
• It also restores 20 sanity immediately, I mean, she surely enjoy a moment of her work at some point ?
• Only Wickerbottom has access to this craft

I agree that wicker need some sort of sanity boon... most of the characters have one, Willow's fire and Bernie, Wendy doesn't lose sanity from ghosts, Maxwell has passive sanity regen, Wurt has her fishes, Wormwood has his plants, Webber can sleep in spider dens, Wx-78 has their sanity circuit, Walter regains sanity from the trees around him, and doesn't lose any until he gets hit, even when charlie almost attacks him ....ect. I think it would make a lot of sense if Wickerbottom had something to help her raise sanity...she seems pretty miserable just writing her magic books that drive her insane... I mean... she enjoys her knowledge and reading and learning... but reading her books drains her sanity because they are magical items!!! She loses more sanity from stale food, and merely has 50 more sanity than normal.

 

17 hours ago, ADM said:

the reasons aren't just to require the presence of a Wickerbottom to assure the usage of book without he

Isn't the purpose of the bookshelf to simply make playing as wickerbottom more convenient...also, there are only 2 other survivors that can even benefit from Wickerbottoms books... Wurt, who can read them for sanity, and Maxwell who can actually utilize them... I main Wurt, and I want to use her as a swap character to refill the tentacles in the swamp and for the sanity books, WHY? Because Wickerbottom isn't really fun for me to play...The thing is, you can't stop anyone from doing swap characters...you can't!!! people will do it no matter what, for whatever benefit they see in another character

18 hours ago, ADM said:

Because on one hand having 20 books (assuming you've got only one Bookcase) to repair from fin air is too me just too bland of a mechanism in the case of Wicker's refresh, it removes a great fragment of the crafting principles she could have since most of the time I want to sink certain resources these books require... you realise I'm restraining myself from saying that it is "op", because it isn't that much, there'd be better words to describe it.
On the other hand, as it is, waiting isn't fun. If I wanted to have my book repaired I'd rather have solutions closer to a sewing kit

The bookshalves encourage making a library for wickerbottom players...if you don't wanna wait, make more bookshelves, make as many books as you want really, then just place them in the shelves for storage, they have 20 slots... the bookshalf itself seems pretty magical, so why wouldn't it restore the books on the shelf? Maybe having the abillity to restore books would be convenient, but it would reduce the library aspect of the shelf... Libraries are quiet places of preservation, meant to safely keep and store books and protect them from the elements, waiting is just another part of being a librarian, do librarians repair books, or merely protect them? I feel like the bookshelf is in line with Wickerbottom's design the way it is.

[DVGMedia]

I always see this and the main thing is how often are you going to be using that many books?
 ive seen 15 to 20 on major grinding sessions. and those happen every so often not on a consistent basis.
books repair at a rate of 16 percent a day.

if i remember all books have 5 uses.
 so you can spam 20 books 80 uses (saving 1 for repair)
every 5 days
with one bookshelf
Idk about you but Thats a good number of uses.

4 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

 

Wicker still is a swap character just cause maxwell can read her books
All you need to do is craft all the books Put them in book cases and there you go endless books.
never have to swap to wicker again.

[Copyafriend]

15 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

I always see this and the main thing is how often are you going to be using that many books?
 ive seen 15 to 20 on major grinding sessions. and those happen every so often not on a consistent basis.
books repair at a rate of 16 percent a day.

if i remember all books have 5 uses.
 so you can spam 20 books 80 uses (saving 1 for repair)
every 5 days
with one bookshelf
Idk about you but Thats a good number of uses.

Wicker still is a swap character just cause maxwell can read her books
All you need to do is craft all the books Put them in book cases and there you go endless books.
never have to swap to wicker again.

Bro can everyone drop the “SwAp ChArActER” mentality, its literally unique crafts only ONE other character can use. Im not going to switch to maxwell. very few people will. Its not like wickerbottoms books can be used by anybody. And even if they could, its only a switch character if you want them to be a switch character. No one plays winona, not because shes a switch character, but because she has nothing but her catapults. shes not really a fleshed out interesting character. She can make TWO things, if she could do more people would play her more but she cant. WORMWOOD could be considered a swap character, he has a lot of powerful character specific crafts. No one calls him a swap character because theres plenty of interesting mechanics that keep people interested. You sure can use him as one though. Wickerbottom is an interesting character all on her own, maxwell being able to use her books doesnt change that and im tired pf hearing about swap characters. Go swap your opinion out for a more interesting one at the lunar gateway 

[DVGMedia]

36 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

 

I don't swap characters
I am a wendy main.
but that doesn't mean people aren't going to optimize it
You have to realize that is an option. Just cause you wont do it doesn't mean others won't
Just like how they got rid of the end is nigh synergy with wx They are going to probably remove this synergy with maxwell.

Wendy used to be a swap character Because people would swap to her to make a sanity station but its not as often any more.

I personally think winona should be able to pick up her structures as an inventory item  and be able to deploy and pick up at will.
vs them being structures.

I want characters to be played because thats the only way to access their abilities.

If you give a character the exact same abilities as another character then it no longer makes that character unique.

Wicker only has books so its very important to her game play.

That would be like giving any other character abigail.
Which is the core mechanic of wendy.
 

[Cheggf]

7 hours ago, meow meow meow said:

Winona doesn't have to tune up her catapults

Yes she does, they don't fire without fuel. 

[maxwell_winters]

2 hours ago, Jinjetica said:

I agree that wicker need some sort of sanity boon

Except she doesn't. Sanity management is one of the most challenging aspects of her playstyle. The reason why she can't sleep in the first place is that sleeping was an easy way out of low sanity in Don't Starve Alone. If we add random sanity boosts, we might as well change her title from Wickerbottom The Librarian to Wickerbottom The Cheat Console. 

[Jinjetica]

34 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Sanity management is one of the most challenging aspects of her playstyle. The reason why she can't sleep in the first place is that sleeping was an easy way out of low sanity in Don't Starve Alone. If we add random sanity boosts, we might as well change her title from Wickerbottom The Librarian to Wickerbottom The Cheat Console

...ok, I found her sanity to just be a nightmare, and now that retaining her sanity is essential to not spawning in a bajillion shadow creatures when she uses her books, it would be nice if she had a sanity quirk, beyond losing more to stale foods or to her books... her constant sanity drain is boring in concept, and it would be nice if she had something character specific that could raise her sanity specifically... I never said she needed "an easy way out of low sanity", I said she needed something specific to her sanity that is beneficial, not even something that is easy, just something that sets her apart from everyone else, and helps with her sanity which is always being depleted... it's not like players won't be using the other methods of sanity regeneration anymore, or that sanity won't be difficult for her specifically, because all characters struggle with their sanity by design. I just see a really miserable character, who doesn't even gain sanity from her passions, and I wonder why she was made that way, and feel it would be better if she actually enjoyed doing something...like... what if she could read stories to the other survivors from her books similar to Walter? based on the character quotes, the children have her read them the books already, and they enjoy looking at the pictures... I think this would be a cool idea that ties back into her character, or something similar to this would be nice too!!

47 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

Wicker only has books so its very important to her game play.

That would be like giving any other character abigail.
Which is the core mechanic of wendy.

...but all players can use her sisturn... and no one can use Wickerbottom's books AT ALL except for Maxwell and to a lesser degree Wurt... so why does it even matter at all? Are you afraid that Maxwell is going to take over the constant with these books? She's a librarian, I think everyone should be able to get effects from her books, even if not the ones intended for Wickerbottom herself... I think you are wrong about the items being character specific making them unique, they are even more unique when they can be affected by other players and have a different effect

[maxwell_winters]

1 minute ago, Jinjetica said:

 I just see a really miserable character, who doesn't even gain sanity from her passions, and I wonder why she was made that way

Because sanity is her main magic ''currency'' (apart from reeds) if she had alternative ways to get it like a structure or to reading to survivors, that currency would lose its value and sanity cost from reading will have to be buffed to balance it out. 

Besides, are we even sure she enjoys making her books? Maybe she just does it for the sake of survival. 

[Jinjetica]

4 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Because sanity is her main magic ''currency'' (apart from reeds) if she had alternative ways to get it like a structure or to reading to survivors, that currency would lose its value and sanity cost from reading will have to be buffed to balance it out. 

Besides, are we even sure she enjoys making her books? Maybe she just does it for the sake of survival. 

so she doesn't enjoy making books and it's merely a means to an end, that's just depressing really... and really just pronounces my point, she doesn't appear to enjoy ANYTHING, it's very flat, and her one passion gives her no joy... that's horrible... and how would being able to gain sanity in a new way reduce the value of her sanity? before this rework beta, players could spam the books and read however much they wanted at 0 sanity, now doing so spawns in a billion shadow creatures instantly... So she needs more sanity than she did before anyways... right? They already changed other mechanics related to the books and made them more difficult to use!!! 

[DVGMedia]

18 minutes ago, Jinjetica said:

 

The thing is another character should not be able to use a character specific item to them its kind of why winona is kind of bad
and to a lesser extent willow because players can only use bernie as a tank vs how willow can use him to fight same with her lighter everyone can use it but only  willow can cook on it.
you get a character specific  benefit by playing willow with her unique items. But other players get marginal benefits.

everyone can use winonas items she just needs to craft them.

No one can use wendy's flower No one can use lucy No one can use walters slingshot
no one can use warlys cookware. No one can use wolfgangs gym.

It was interesting that maxwell can use wickers books  but for the sake of keeping characters unique he should not be able to do the same effects wicker does.
Just like how wurt can use them but only gets sanity 

There are items in a characters kit that help other players and thats fine but they don't get the full  effect as the player playing the character does.
sisturns wortox healing. wigfrid songs. Wx thermals


 

[Copyafriend]

1 hour ago, EsaiXD said:

The thing is another character should not be able to use a character specific item to them its kind of why winona is kind of bad
and to a lesser extent willow because players can only use bernie as a tank vs how willow can use him to fight same with her lighter everyone can use it but only  willow can cook on it.
you get a character specific  benefit by playing willow with her unique items. But other players get marginal benefits.

everyone can use winonas items she just needs to craft them.

No one can use wendy's flower No one can use lucy No one can use walters slingshot
no one can use warlys cookware. No one can use wolfgangs gym.

It was interesting that maxwell can use wickers books  but for the sake of keeping characters unique he should not be able to do the same effects wicker does.
Just like how wurt can use them but only gets sanity 

There are items in a characters kit that help other players and thats fine but they don't get the full  effect as the player playing the character does.
sisturns wortox healing. wigfrid songs. Wx thermals


 

Except… why cant they? I mean no one else is a weightlifter so no wolfgang, lucy is a magic axe, abigail only listens to wendy. Bernie is willows magic bear she imbued with her trauma or whatever. Those are character specific thematically. Winona makes machines, there is no logical reason why anyone would be unable to just stick a nitre or gem in. Wickerbottom also makes sense. She writes magic books, we have a character with experience reading magic books. 
 

Your argument is nonsensical. They cant just because they cant? Just because you dont like it i suppose? 
 

hate to break it to you, almost no one will switch to maxwell because maxwell sucks dogwater. 75 health is quite a limit, and any giant can mine or chop trees for you. They never turned into maxwell before even after wrapping hundreds of books, why would they do it now? They could have always stayed as maxwell until they got the papyrus then switched to craft the books then back again. Maybe when maxwell gets his rework they’ll change it. But until then its an interesting synergy that almost everyone enjoys. 

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

 

all of that is literally your own opinon on how maxwell is it doesnt mean people don't do it

I know people who swapped to maxwell  instead of staying wicker just cause it was more convenient than playing with wickers downsides.
So you saying that no one would ever do that is unfair to the fact that people did

Maxwell is going to get is own content later and they are going to remove his ability to read wickers books In the same way wicker does.



Why is maxwell the only character that is allowed to use books That is the same as wicker?
in your logic then wicker should be able to read the codex umbra and summon her own shadow minions?
or maybe she should be able to summon abby cause its a magical item?
or even summon large bernie? Come on man!

we only have around 16 characters no one should be able to do the same exact thing as another character special abilitiy
 

 

[Notecja]

43 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

we only have around 16 characters no one should be able to do the same exact thing as another character special abilitiy

with that logic Warly should not able to share spieces and foods exclusive to him. 

I love sharing, just main character should have higher benefits from these crafts than anyone else. So we have something between, a bit of sharing and a bit exclusive. Like Wendy has only control over Abby, but everyone can join fight when Abby debuffs enemies. Or only Willow will get BERNIE!, other only small version. And Wigfrid now has song to share a smoll bit of her power. 

[DVGMedia]

5 hours ago, Notecja said:

with that logic Warly should not able to share spieces and foods exclusive to him. 

I love sharing, just main character should have higher benefits from these crafts than anyone else. So we have something between, a bit of sharing and a bit exclusive. Like Wendy has only control over Abby, but everyone can join fight when Abby debuffs enemies. Or only Willow will get BERNIE!, other only small version. And Wigfrid now has song to share a smoll bit of her power. 

i don't mind that there is an interaction with the characters.

but the example you gave is actually not the same.
Because it would be more as if warly could make his crafting stations.
the spice grinder, crockpot, and seasoner.
And everyone can use those stations to make the food so long you knew the recipes.

You can do that technically because there is a cook book to jot down recipes.  but for balance and the use of warly only warly can operate his cooking stations.
Thats the same argument im trying to  make here.

 

[maxwell_winters]

11 hours ago, Jinjetica said:

and really just pronounces my point, she doesn't appear to enjoy ANYTHING, it's very flat, and her one passion gives her no joy... that's horrible... 

You're treating this way too seriously. Sanity is not a storytelling device, it's a game mechanic. Winona likes engineering, she doesn't get sanity from crafting. Warly likes cooking, he doesn't get sanity from standing near a crock pot. Maxwell likes shadow magic, it doesn't inverse sanity drain from dark swords to positive. Wilson is a scientist, yet no sanity aura from prototype stations or extra sanity from prototyping. Walter doesn't gain sanity from Woby. Some characters do have sanity-related bonuses if it fits their gameplay. But that doesn't mean that every character must have them. 

[ssbb]

8 hours ago, Notecja said:

with that logic Warly should not able to share spieces and foods exclusive to him. 

I love sharing, just main character should have higher benefits from these crafts than anyone else. So we have something between, a bit of sharing and a bit exclusive. Like Wendy has only control over Abby, but everyone can join fight when Abby debuffs enemies. Or only Willow will get BERNIE!, other only small version. And Wigfrid now has song to share a smoll bit of her power. 

I think this brings up the absolute best point for keeping Maxwell’s capability to read Wickerbottom’s books—character synergies.

Kind of like old WX and Wickerbottom, Wortox and Wormwood—hell, even synergies that don’t require two players present in a world and requiring swapping: Wolfgang/Wanda and Volt Goat Chaud-Froid, any character + Winona Catapults, WX and Winona’s two generators, and Wormwood’s farming effectiveness with Warly’s exclusive powers to amass unique dishes or spiced foods.

Synergies are one of the most fun things about games, and I think is the main reason for Klei keeping Maxwell’s book-reading ability.