The current map sucks for boat content

[Copyafriend]

I want to say, that i originally had an hours worth of typing, but decided to shorten it. Tldr: the map is killing the ocean vibe and needs to be changed

im not saying go full archipelago either, just hear me out.

the main problems with the ocean as i see it are as follows: 

 

1: its far too large to ever be sailed around in a reasonable manner.

 

2: the small channels are nearly impossible to sail through and only add to the first problem. They worked well in dont starve and reign of giants. If we didnt have an ocean they would be perfect for dont starve together as well, but we do have an ocean.

3: there is no incentive to try to sail from one location to another, unless that location is “ocean content”, this leads to a strong feeling (at least for me) of ocean content being very separate from the “main game” as a result it can feel very gimmicky as well. 
 

4: in the exact same vein but from the opposite direction: i can only reach ocean content WITH A BOAT. We have caves that go underneath the entire map, why isnt there a cave entrance on the moon quay, with monkeys underground, or even in the wilds with the two monkeys having a constant thieving war? or from the lunar island leading to the grotto. It just makes the caves feel disconnected, when they should be connecting everything.
 

5: the islands are extremely separate from the mainland. This is the most clear in the fact that even when theres daily rewards for living on an island (good rewards too, and the island isnt small either) it still is so remote from the mainlnd that no one even considers living there. Because they’d have to sail to the closest branch, park their boat, walk to the center of the map, and from there they can finally walk towards their destination.

what i suggest to solve these problems:

1: do away with branches. They’re literally anti fun at this point, we all just like them because they’re classic, we can still have some branches to the word, but everything branching off from one center point has got to go. 
this will solve sailing from place to place

2 stop centering the mainland. If the mainland is in the center of the map we have to put ocean on all sizes, this makes the current ocean HUGE with massive chunks of empty or functionally empty water between actual landmarks. 

This will help with sailing time, and make the map a little less awkward.

3: make the mainland smaller. I mean by like 30-40% take away every duplicate biome completely, reduce the size of existing biomes, make it have interesting shapes like a coastal swamp, make it U or bean shaped with a giant bay you can bounce around from location obviously we can have a branch leading to another location but we could use some real tapography. And most importantly, give it some REAL randomness, i swear after 200 hours ive seen every map and ive been playing a lot longer than that. But it needs to be perfectly functional still. Like 3 players need to be able to base there with no major problems. 
this will help with sailing time, and also provide a reason to expand: more space.

5: Now take all those removed biomes, and do something with them. Smaller second island? why not? Savanna attached to the lunar island? Sure. Moon quay with a deciduous biome with monkeys fighting random pig spawns because they ate their bananas? That sounds funny asf. Make it random and make it interesting. Make sure every island with 3 or more biomes has either a wormhole or a cave entrance. Preferably both. 

this is to put more content out in the ocean without too much additional effort. Theres no reason why there cant be a swamp island, aside from the fact that we already have two swamps. But it also provides ways to locate islands for players who dont like the sea content as much. 
 

6: start giving players some actual choice for how they get around. Honestly it feels like im railroaded into getting set up on the mainland, then once im ready, i can sail. The moon quay has only reinforced this feeling. I get set up then i go to the ocean, do what i need to do, then head back to base. I CAN rush the lunar island, but why is something a boatride away a rush? Connect the lunar island to the grotto, connect moon quay with idk the wilds and make it monkey on monkey. Tldr: make sure that the wx mains can still run their widdle heart out.

this is mostly a furtheration of the previous point. Its a sandbox, players should have some choice when it comes to how they get from place to place.

finally and most importantly:

7: make the old branches a world generation option.

we will all want to revisit it, but i genuinely think its a relic and quite frankly at this point, holding the game back. I love my rediculous branches, but they make sailing a pain.

 

Please, PLEASE let me know what you think. I genuinely think the map is TOO big and TOO awkward as is. Tell me if you agree, or disagree, and what you’d change about my suggestions.

[Well-met]

just reduce default sea stack count

[HellHeater]

all i want in sea to change is make it exactly like how shipwrecked has it

you go to edge and come out from other side 

i want to see that

[Ardcrumb]

I agree with everything except 3. 

If there is an update that shatters the mainland, I'd like to see a separate biome for the rivers and sinew-like connective waters around some islands. 

Imagine being able to wade through a small river separating two biomes, with you being able to snatch some inland fish swimming away with your spear? 

Or maybe a deeper river where you have to boat across filled with currents pushing you to sea with ducks or otters floating along the surface. 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, HellHeater said:

all i want in sea to change is make it exactly like how shipwrecked has it

you go to edge and come out from other side 

i want to see that

This won’t “fix” dst… you still end up sailing right back to the SAME location.

Lets pretend we have a grid of 9 blocks- every block is connected to create a Grid.

No matter where you sail or where it randomly takes you- you still come right back to the same plot of land you never needed to leave in the first place.

Now let’s pretend we separate those 9 grid blocks with massive bodies of water-

When you sail off screen, it will randomly spit you back out at one of the 8 outer blocks.

Obviously this new type of world generation would only apply to NEW worlds, same as how you can no longer create OLD farm crop plots.. but if you have worlds prior to the new crop changes- you keep the old crops as well.

This would obviously be a huge No-No to “Retro Fit” into peoples existing worlds.

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

4: in the exact same vein but from the opposite direction: i can only reach ocean content WITH A BOAT. We have caves that go underneath the entire map, why isnt there a cave entrance on the moon quay, with monkeys underground, or even in the wilds with the two monkeys having a constant thieving war? or from the lunar island leading to the grotto. It just makes the caves feel disconnected, when they should be connecting everything.

Never knew how much I needed special sinkholes and cave biomes for the new islands.

[ALCRD]

Mainland divided into several small islands would be a pretty nice worldgen option when creating a world.

[Guille6785]

grotto connecting to lunar would be pretty nutty

[Lokena]

It seems to me that half of the things you mentioned are already configured in the world generation settings. You can make a small map, you can put branches on "never", you can find a U-shaped generation with water between biomes. And it's not that rare - again, branches on "never", looping on "always" and here you go. The only thing I really agree with is to do something with rivers. Right now they are not suitable for fans of any kind of generation. They are just an obstacle to put the boat on as a bridge. As for the caves connecting everything, it sounds really cool, but if you can get to everything on foot, won't it add to the feeling that boats are simply not needed?

[kiwikenobi]

 

9 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

from the lunar island leading to the grotto

The Forgotten Knowledge update trailer clearly shows that the grotto is directly below the lunar island. I agree that a sinkhole leading from the caves to the island in the grotto would make perfect sense.

[Antynomity]

Separate the main island into a few pieces that are close to eachother divided by let's say 15-wide tile rivers so you don't need to circle around the entire map if you want something on the other side of the ocean without making a new boat, wouldn't even be a pain to get across to the other sides of rivers, would make boats more useful, add better loot on the ocean, more ACTUAL life, not some stationary or random encounters.

Still, I think that it's time to separate the main land into a few pieces, don't make it too random in the way it generates, by that I mean always have them near eachother with easily sailable-thru rivers in between.

[Bumber64]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

This won’t “fix” dst… you still end up sailing right back to the SAME location.

I don't see how it isn't a fix. The implications:

1. You can sail from one corner of land to any other corner faster than walking.

2. You can sail from one edge of land to it's opposite edge faster than walking.

3. You don't need to sail around the entire continent or walk and have multiple boats to get from one part of ocean to any another.

4. The maximum distance to sail from anywhere to anywhere is equal to the map's width. (From the center of one side to the center of an adjacent side.)

5. From a corner of the world map, the maximum distance to sail to any point in the ocean is only half the map's width.

Now you don't have to worry about excessively long sailing times to reach any ocean content, and can focus instead on the lack of said content.

[Copyafriend]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:10 AM, Guille6785 said:

grotto connecting to lunar would be pretty nutty

I agree, but honestly it makes the most sense for it to be directly under the island, and also provides alternative ways of discovering either location

[LitulLola]

Having a cave entrance for each island and vice versa would make boat's unnecessary. Think of it as asking for custom wormholes that go exactly where you want them and knowing exactly where they go. There would be ppl that would scream op as they do with Wanda. But with Wanda it's character specific not for every character in the game (which is what your asking for) sounds great but seems very unbalanced?

As far as Ocean content, yes we all agree we want more and that's exactly what Klei is giving us.They literally just did! New island, mobs, resources, raids, curses, item's, mechanics, docks, cannons, I could go on. They can only pump out so much content at a time and balance it with QOL's and the last character refreshes. Klei is giving us and has been giving us free monthly content for years and they aren't slowing down. They listen to our feedback and in my opinion all of this makes DST special and I can't really ask for more in a game or company. I dunno just my opinion

I think given enough time and the ocean is going to feel much different. They have planned for big thing's as far ahead as 2023

[Copyafriend]

10 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

 

I think you’re largely missing the point of my post, im asking for a map rewrite to make boats more functional. 

its not really about ocean content, in fact i think we have enough ocean content. Its about the map being unsuited for boats, to the point where it almost discourages their use. Even though boats are faster than most characters, you’d never use a boat to go from one point on the land to another point on the land, simply because the map isn’t designed with boating in mind. Extra islands using current biomes is mostly so we dont reduce the amount of resources that the world starts with, and also allowing isolated bases

i asked for cave entrances for those two islands specifically so that people dont have to use boats if they dont want to. But its all up to klei and they can ignore it all or certain parts if they so choose

[LitulLola]

34 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

I think you’re largely missing the point of my post, im asking for a map rewrite to make boats more functional. 

its not really about ocean content, in fact i think we have enough ocean content. Its about the map being unsuited for boats, to the point where it almost discourages their use. Even though boats are faster than most characters, you’d never use a boat to go from one point on the land to another point on the land, simply because the map isn’t designed with boating in mind. Extra islands using current biomes is mostly so we dont reduce the amount of resources that the world starts with, and also allowing isolated bases

i asked for cave entrances for those two islands specifically so that people dont have to use boats if they dont want to. But its all up to klei and they can ignore it all or certain parts if they so choose

I guess if it was a word gen setting you could choose, either shipwrecked or Dst. That would be okay, sure why not? I'd be like shipwrecked but in Dst content

But on the other idea, if your trying to make boat's more functional I don't really see how making them unnecessary helps. It'd be cool but no one would use boats if they could hop into a cave entrance. At least I wouldn't, but that's me

I really liked QuartzBeam's idea of a ship in a bottle to transport your boat anywhere you need it

[Mike23Ua]

9 minutes ago, LitulLola said:

I guess if it was a word gen setting you could choose, either shipwrecked or Dst. That would be okay, sure why not? I'd be like shipwrecked but in Dst content

But on the other idea, if your trying to make boat's more functional I don't really see how making them unnecessary helps. It'd be cool but no one would use boats if they could hop into a cave entrance. At least I wouldn't, but that's me

You have to think much much bigger than that… what if you could sail to a distant island I don’t know let’s just say Pearls Island.. and you can bust open her Plugged Sinkholes to explore a new Underground Area and clear a “shortcut” from the caves to her island that was blocked off and inaccessible from underground?

I played the original Pokémon game on Gameboy where you needed to get a flute and move a roadblocking sleeping Snorlax….

I am 100% Sure Klei could find clever ways to connect Cave Tunnels, Weird Wormhole portals, and Weird portals/gateways in general together. 

 

[LitulLola]

^^^ I get what your saying and I'd be really cool but his post was about making boat's more functional. And imo that 1 idea would do the opposite, let's be honest if this was a feature I would never sail again except to get knobbly tree nuts. I think we could introduce really cool content without making boat's obsolete. From the caves new biomes we could pop up in a new dimension or extension of the constant but you would have to sail from there to get anywhere. Maybe we'd have to sail around finding diff parts or clues to get back. Maybe Scrolls from the ancients themselves or wagstaff blueprints to build a bridge/portal back discovering new things along the way. If we have a ocean and boats we need to keep it relevant. That's all

[. . .]

current map is good the only problem is duplicate biomes and there are not enough islands in the ocean. there probably should even be a new mini continent comprised of multiple biomes like the main landmass RoG

[chincer]

now that grass boat is a thing, and doesnt require science to make i see no reason why rivers shouldnt be eliminated in favor of bigger gaps of water

they could connect the island biomes with wormholes by making it so they almost never lead to the same landmass

in the same aspect they should make it so while there is a sinkhole to moonquay island from the caves, you dont know which at all, it could be anywhere, maybe even in the middle of the cave swamps

on the other side what if...the only way to gain access to lunar island from the caves is by activating the archives, building a special device on lunar island and that teleporting you to the archives and back?

[Copyafriend]

21 hours ago, LitulLola said:

^^^ I get what your saying and I'd be really cool but his post was about making boat's more functional. And imo that 1 idea would do the opposite, let's be honest if this was a feature I would never sail again except to get knobbly tree nuts.

I mean yeah, you make a very fair point, i understand that some people may not use boats altogether if that was an option, and klei might not like that. I just think we should be given the option to not sail in addition to making boats more functional via a map rewrite

[HeatAndRun]

DST needs "archipelago" worldgen setting I think.

[maxwell_winters]

Making a sinkhole to Moon Quay and the Lunar Island wouldn't make sense from the gameplay perspective. It's a challenge to find them in the ocean. Randomly checking sinkholes would make it too easy. Besides, they both aren't  really islands. Moon Quay is a rock that was covered with sand from the portal. The Lunar is a piece of the moon. 

However, I agree that the mainland is too big and there are a lot of biomes. These are my ideas of how to improve the world.

1. Rework the Mandrake forest into another biome with unique mobs and trees.  I explore it in the early game to never come back to later. I think one spider-infested forest is enough. The Moonstone forest has reasons to come back to it while in the Mandrake forest you just pick up the resources and leave for good unless there is a set piece. 

2. Remove the second Deciduous completely. The epitome of uselessness. It only makes the search for Klaus and One-Eyed Deer more annoying. 

3. Transfer the Dragonfly desert to a separate island which is close to the mainland. Merged desserts piss me off. This is the only solution to prevent this.

4. Make the Mosaic biome smaller.