Best Refresh?

[KeshS]

Please tell me what you think. And please don't start topics related about power creeping, and how this character is just OP.

[FourthLess]

Wormwood's RWYS changes weren't considered a refresh but they might as well be one. They made Wormwood a lot more enjoyable to play. 

Warly's changes were also really good and new additions fit him very well. The only thing I would like changed about him is that he needs his singleplayer bonus from food back and maybe increased food memory. 

[Eughstein]

why no wurt

[KeshS]

3 minutes ago, Eughstein said:

why no wurt

What refresh did she get?

[Eughstein]

Just now, KeshS said:

What refresh did she get?

wx update+waterlogged+rwys
 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

wormwood rwys refresh made him way funnier

warly changes when came to dst made him one of the stronger and funnier characters. His downsides is one of the most interesting, there is no need to ruin it or remove it with stat bonus (for what are needed with extra damage and armor?)

i would also add wendy's refresh for all the QoL improvements making her funnier

[KeshS]

7 minutes ago, Eughstein said:

wx update+waterlogged+rwys
 

I didn't see those recent changes. Thanks. Added to poll.

[grm9]

Technically, Maxwell also had mini-rework when he got added into DST, with the new clones each for their own task and no night armor/dark sword/purple gem on start. So, maybe he should be included as well?

26 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

warly changes when came to dst made him one of the stronger and funnier characters. His downsides is one of the most interesting, there is no need to ruin it or remove it with stat bonus (for what are needed with extra damage and armor?)

To be honest, in DST Warly's issue is that all his perks can be applied to the team except using portable cookware (but dishes from it still can be eaten by anyone), so most of people just swap their character to Warly through celestial portal, cook the stuff they need and go back to their main character. Imo, Warly in DST needs some perks to stay viable for himself, giving a point in still playing as him after celestial portal is set up. It's not as much about making him more powerful as it is about making him more fun, because you can deal with his downside by eating meaty stews and only rarely some bacon & eggs to compensate additional hunger drain per day, so he needs something else as well.

[ShadowDuelist]

Compared to what it was, I still think Woodie was the best. 
It changed his playstyle entirely, making him a lot more fun and versatile.

I’d place Warly second, given how useful he became. Even though he’d still need some touches here and there.

Wormwood was always that good, the recent changes just adapted him to DST better with some balance touches. I think other already reworked characters should get the wormwood threatment eventually: some touches here and there to fix those things that are not okay.
 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

To be honest, in DST Warly's issue is that all his perks can be applied to the team except using portable cookware (but dishes from it still can be eaten by anyone), so most of people just swap their character to Warly through celestial portal, cook the stuff they need and go back to their main character. Imo, Warly in DST needs some perks to stay viable for himself, giving a point in still playing as him after celestial portal is set up.

i dont see how that is a problem with warly but people having a problem with that kind of mechanics and how other people use them but ok, make him have food buffs for longer but not remove his downside with unnecessary stat boost when already he is able to beat enemies wasting less healing and sanity food. A food stat boost will only achieve unexperience warly players spamming pierogies like every other character instead of looking for a variety of better dishes (you know, is a chef, he is suppose to make good dishes and bring variety of them) and wont stop the portal shenanigans.

Any change to warly wont stop being a swap character since some people want to play their favourite character while taking advantage of other character perks and i dont see the problem with that and doesnt affect me, i see a problem in people wanting to ruin a perfect character because "people play in a way i dont like" which affects my gameplay experience since i love playing warly in his current state and work arround his downside

pd. how is warly inviable by himself? what makes warly inviable? isnt viable having the best dishes and spices that everyone wants to use without the need of changing characters? an inviable character would be a character without legs or without arms but not warly, even wes is viable. This isnt a competitive game and even in them a good portion of how viable is a character comes from the player output

 

[HeatAndRun]

I accidentally read the title as "Beta Release" XD 

[grm9]

23 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i dont see how that is a problem with warly but people having a problem with that kind of mechanics and how other people use them

Other people use those mechanics because they exist in the game. You can't just say that "pretend that this mechanic isn't there if you don't like it", that's not how game development works, especially in multiplayer games. Keeping game balance (or at least keeping content of the game fun) is important anyway.

23 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 make him have food buffs for longer but not remove his downside with unnecessary stat boost when already he is able to beat enemies wasting less healing and sanity food. A food stat boost will only achieve unexperience warly players spamming pierogies like every other character instead of looking for a variety of better dishes (you know, is a chef, he is suppose to make good dishes and bring variety of them) and wont stop the portal shenanigans.

Did I even name food stat boost here? Also, longer buffs for sure would be a nice change, but Warly would need more tbh. Also, the goal here isn't stopping character swapping for Warly completely and to make his dishes unusable for others or something, it's to make more people keep playing as Warly after the portal is set up, to keep Warly useful through some other perks.

 

23 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Any change to warly wont stop being a swap character since some people want to play their favourite character while taking advantage of other character perks and i dont see the problem with that and doesnt affect me, i see a problem in people wanting to ruin a perfect character because "people play in a way i dont like" which affects my gameplay experience since i love playing warly in his current state and work arround his downside

Already said about making him completely unusable for swaps, that's not the goal, the goal is making him useful on his own. Now about the rest: Warly isn't a perfect character, you can just cook meaty stew to work around his downside and that will be it, he needs to be more interesting. And the "don't complain about other people playing in some way" argument is pointless. "Why do you complain that <insert character> is weak? Some small amount of people play as him, so don't change him in any way".

 

23 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

pd. how is warly inviable by himself? what makes warly inviable? isnt viable having the best dishes and spices that everyone wants to use without the need of changing characters? an inviable character would be a character without legs or without arms but not warly, even wes is viable. This isnt a competitive game and even in them a good portion of how viable is a character comes from the player output

Ok, bad choice of words. Replace "viable" with "useful". After you can just cook his dishes, wrap them in a bundle and swap away to another character, he isn't useful in any way except the portable crockpot but it's barely useful by the point when you get celestial portal. Also, even his dishes are pretty pathetic. I don't know really anyone who would mass-produce those temperature dishes, the cordon bleu is replaced by eyebrella which you can wear anytime except boss fights, so only useful when fighting bosses in spring I guess. Volt goat jelly has less damage than Wolfgang or Wanda (waiting for someone to start complaining about bringing up Wolfgang/Wanda in a character discussion, but whatever), if it's not raining. Sure it is a really good dish in comparison to average crockpot dishes which just give hunger/sanity/health, but I wouldn't play Warly just for this, especially solo. Honey spice is replaced by bearger, also.

[bumblingbumbo]

Wx-78, I think, got the most drastic reworking out of all of them. Before, he was a gear consumer before becoming the best character in the game (stat wise) with nearly no downside at all. With his rework, now he has to work for the OP things :0. I greatly prefer reworked WX not despite his weakened state, but because of it. He's no longer just rush ruins and win.

[Mysterious box]

54 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

To be honest, in DST Warly's issue is that all his perks can be applied to the team except using portable cookware (but dishes from it still can be eaten by anyone), so most of people just swap their character to Warly through celestial portal, cook the stuff they need and go back to their main character. Imo, Warly in DST needs some perks to stay viable for himself, giving a point in still playing as him after celestial portal is set up. It's not as much about making him more powerful as it is about making him more fun, because you can deal with his downside by eating meaty stews and only rarely some bacon & eggs to compensate additional hunger drain per day, so he needs something else as well.

Honestly I mean his downsides have been becoming lesser as time goes on in my opinion at least him being hindered by crops for buffs have been canceled by the much better farming system, his crockpot downside has also become more and more tame as basically any food item can go in the crockpot now. His perks are easier to maintain and he has healing alternatives for combat and seems to be a fairly common pick among players even over fair amount of the cast in my experience, but yea there will be some people who swap for his buffs but your not going to make those people who do stop doing that barring removing the portal change or making Warly's dishes require him to fuction both of which would be stupid moves

Warly is fine as is he's like a playing a cleric in a rpg buffs are meant to be shared and that's fine he contributes to the team and isn't overly hindered or tedious on his own. His viability comes in his well rounded perk toolbox

[FourthLess]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

there is no need to ruin it or remove it with stat bonus

It won't ruin it if food memory will be increased as well. 

[SecretPizzaMan]

Top 12 refreshes (2022).

Spoiler

12. Wolfgang.

 

11. Wolfgang.

 

10. Wolfgang.

 

9. Wolfgang.

 

8. Wolfgang.

 

6. Wolfgang.

 

7. Wolfgang.

 

5. Wolfgang

 

4. Wolfgang.

 

3. Wolfgang.

 

2. Wolfgang.

 

1. You guessed it, Waldo.

My honest thoughts:

Spoiler

I think it's WX so far, with Wendy in close second. 

I just like the mechanics that got introduced and tweaked with WX's rework. It was probably the most predictable rework but at least it was solid.

I like how there's a lot of different circuits combo's for different purposes and play styles. How wetness actually feels like a threat to your entire being.

I'm mostly a sucker for the speed.

 

 

Wendy's rework was also pretty good. It made a bad character mostly good.

I really like how you gotten a whole lot more control over Abagail and how Abagail doesn't die instantly if more then 2 pigs aggro on them. I also like how you can always see Abagail's health and also the potions you can make are pretty cool.

I think there needs to be some new potions using some of the newer content.

Honestly I can't really criticize the rework cause I don't see what I could add that could've made it better. That's pretty much how i judge how good a rework is. If I can't suggest anything to improve it, it's good in my eyes.

 

Also Wolfgang's rework was alright, definitely in my top 12 reworks.

 

[skile]

I really loved Woodie rework, but i miss old dst Woodie, so i'll just pick Warly and Wurt. 

(Wurt didn't exactly got a rework, but changes she got through other updates like Hook, line and inkler, RWYS and WX-78 refresh were amazing) 

Warly went from a character i almost never played in SW to an amazing character in dst, who can support team really well, and is incredibly fun to play as. and after RWYS getting his dishes and spices became even easier, so he can start utilizing his perks even earlier. 

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I mean his downsides have been becoming lesser as time goes on in my opinion at least him being hindered by crops for buffs have been canceled by the much better farming system, his crockpot downside has also become more and more tame as basically any food item can go in the crockpot now. His perks are easier to maintain and he has healing alternatives for combat and seems to be a fairly common pick among players even over fair amount of the cast in my experience, but yea there will be some people who swap for his buffs but your not going to make those people who do stop doing that barring removing the portal change or making Warly's dishes require him to fuction both of which would be stupid moves

Warly is fine as is he's like a playing a cleric in a rpg buffs are meant to be shared and that's fine he contributes to the team and isn't overly hindered or tedious on his own. His viability comes in his well rounded perk toolbox

I already said that I don't mean that the ability to swap to him and back to player's main character needs to be removed, I said that he needs at least something except his crockpot which is almost useless by the point when you get celestial portal, because otherwise, once the portal is set up, no one will play as him except people who don't care about him not having useful perks, but these are definitely not the bigger/most part of community I guess. Having a character which isn't worth playing as after day 70 for longer than one day for cooking & swapping is pretty bad.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, grumm9690 said:

I already said that I don't mean that the ability to swap to him and back to player's main character needs to be removed, I said that he needs at least something except his crockpot which is almost useless by the point when you get celestial portal, because otherwise, once the portal is set up, no one will play as him except people who don't care about him not having useful perks, but these are definitely not the bigger/most part of community I guess. Having a character which isn't worth playing as after day 70 for longer than one day for cooking & swapping is pretty bad.

he has his downside which is one of the few downside that really impact the gameplay

[grm9]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

he has his downside which is one of the few downside that really impact the gameplay

This is true, but again, my point is that not many people would want to play as a specific character just for a downside, especially around late-game, and Warly wasn't even made as a challenge character.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

This is true, but again, my point is that not many people would want to play as a specific character just for a downside, especially around late-game, and Warly wasn't even made as a challenge character.

and for that there are many other characters, they can pick another one in the same way i dont play some of them but i play others

warly is one of the stronger characters and the portal shouldn't be an excuse to change perfectly funtional and fun characters. Makes 0 sense imo

[Mysterious box]

48 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

I already said that I don't mean that the ability to swap to him and back to player's main character needs to be removed, I said that he needs at least something except his crockpot which is almost useless by the point when you get celestial portal, because otherwise, once the portal is set up, no one will play as him except people who don't care about him not having useful perks, but these are definitely not the bigger/most part of community I guess. Having a character which isn't worth playing as after day 70 for longer than one day for cooking & swapping is pretty bad.

I mean no character with a downside it worth keeping after a set amount of days well aside from maybe wanda and wendy when you have a auto boss farm combat characters become alot less useful, when you get a crazy amount of resources harvester characters become near useful to you and the list goes on Warly has immunity to all seasonal temperature effects, immunity to wetness, access to the highest damage multiplier, highest damage reduction, boosted work speeds including the fastest hammering speed, darkness immunity for 2 days at a time, mobile cooking, and access to the game's best crockpot recipes and more all bundled into one character and this isn't good enough purely because other characters can benefit from it. The thing is it's not even like Warly isn't unpopular anymore plenty of people play him and you'll often see at least 1 to 3 Warly per server.

[grm9]

20 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

and for that there are many other characters, they can pick another one in the same way i dont play some of them but i play others

"let's not fix that character because 5% of the community already likes him"
Of course I don't have actual statistics, but I don't ever really see Warly players much, although I may be wrong about how many people actually play as him even in late-game.

 

23 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

warly is one of the stronger characters and the portal shouldn't be an excuse to change perfectly funtional and fun characters. Makes 0 sense imo

Complaints about bringing up Wanda/Wolfgang in a character comparison are probably already coming, but Wolfgang gets x2 damage anytime when he wants starting from the 10-th second of the game's start, Wanda only needs 3-4 days to setup an alarming clock, and Warly.. just has x1.8 damage at most 80% of the game year. And he doesn't seem fun, although fun is a subjective thing so there won't be much sense in arguing about how fun he is, to me his downside seems not that fun because it's solved by just eating meaty stews and kiting.

Also, after all, what's so bad in adding one or two more perks for late-game to an already, as you cay, functional and fun character? This would only make him better.

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean no character with a downside it worth keeping after a set amount of days

70 days is only about the time it takes for a guaranteed celestial orb drop. It's likely that you'll get celestial portal earlier if you get lucky. Also, downsides of most characters except probably DLC chars don't matter in late-game anyway, it's not like any downsides except.. Wortox, Warly, Wormwood impact your gameplay in late-game.

 

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Warly has immunity to all seasonal temperature effects, immunity to wetness, access to the highest damage multiplier, highest damage reduction, boosted work speeds including the fastest hammering speed, darkness immunity for 2 days at a time, mobile cooking, and access to the game's best crockpot recipes and more all bundled into one character 

I've never ever seen anyone farm for the temperature dishes because of how short their duration is even in mass-production, cordon bleu is replaced by eyebrella which you can wear anytime except boss fights if you want to have a crown on, Warly only has highest damage during 20% of game's year when the world is wet for x2.5 damage to work, reduction is.. do you seriously tank something except partially bee queen? Work speed: bearger, you said it yourself that resource gatherers are less useful in late-game, and even then Maxwell does it all better except hammering, "darkness immunity" is replaced by any light source which are very easy to get, and even then, to make more of the dishes that give light you need to go into mud biome regularly, while miner & hat lantern require just lightbulbs. Portable crockpot isn't that useful in late-game if we talk about portability, by that moment you already usually have teleportation clocks or a tamed rider beefalo. And finally: you can just swap to another character after cooking it all, after you do that, Warly is no longer useful in this world until you need more of those dishes and that won't be soon if you mass-produced what you needed.

 

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The thing is it's not even like Warly is unpopular anymore plenty of people play him and you'll often see at least 1 to 3 Warly per server.

I've been actively playing on public servers like, two or three months ago, and seeing at least one Warly per server was rare. If only there'd be a global statistic or something like that for that.

[Thomas Die]

Woodie, he had no place in the game before as everything he did was outperformed shown with Maxwell instead being a highly picked character when gathering resources. And his high drawbacks that made you not want to even attempt any of his "perks". This is due to him transitioning to multiplayer causing some changes to his character. Overall, it just made him feel more playable. 

Other than Woodie, Wes' rework just made him a character with a purpose rather than just a meme character. 

Having characters that seemed almost unplayable or have no team play seems silly now as I see DST revolving around character choice influencing unique playstyles and teamplay. Giving these characters something unique is in my opinion a hard task to do and was somewhat performed well with how many characters there are now. Games like Valorant i've seen took away parts of characters to allow for new characters to flourish but i don't believe Klei has done that.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, grumm9690 said:

Wortox, Warly, Wormwood impact your gameplay in late-game.

What part of Warly's downside impacts late game in a meaningful way?

 

2 hours ago, grumm9690 said:

I've never ever seen anyone farm for the temperature dishes because of how short their duration is even in mass-production, cordon bleu is replaced by eyebrella which you can wear anytime except boss fights if you want to have a crown on, Warly only has highest damage during 20% of game's year when the world is wet for x2.5 damage to work, reduction is.. do you seriously tank something except partially bee queen? Work speed: bearger, you said it yourself that resource gatherers are less useful in late-game, and even then Maxwell does it all better except hammering, "darkness immunity" is replaced by any light source which are very easy to get, and even then, to make more of the dishes that give light you need to go into mud biome regularly, while miner & hat lantern require just lightbulbs. Portable crockpot isn't that useful in late-game if we talk about portability, by that moment you already usually have teleportation clocks or a tamed rider beefalo. And finally: you can just swap to another character after cooking it all, after you do that, Warly is no longer useful in this world until you need more of those dishes and that won't be soon if you mass-produced what you needed.

This isn't just a Warly exclusive thing character perks that don't setup or assist in auto farming or travel don't mean much in the end game even applies to wolfgang even more so when you compare his benefits with Wanda. As far as not seeing people using temp dishes idk I see them using them but could be a difference in servers but again that could be region specific I rarely see Wolfgang lately. Wanda isn't really a fair comparison since no character stands close to her.