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Best Refresh?


Wes is best  

133 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do you think got the best rework?

  2. 2. Do you main the character you picked from question 1?

  3. 3. What was good about the refresh?

    • It fits characters personality along with their abilities
    • Abilities are solid and useful
    • The playstyle is different which makes it fun
    • Character became less tedious to manage
    • Recipes for character specific items got cheaper
    • A new mechanic
    • Other (Please tell in the comments)
  4. 4. The characters you picked in question 1, are they perfect?

    • Yes!
    • Yes, but need revision to specific character bugs.
    • No, still needs some tuning
    • Other (Please tell in the comments)


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1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

What part of Warly's downside impacts late game in a meaningful way?

Annoyance of needing to eat only meaty stews or big amount of other different dishes. Also a bit of annoyance with healling. That's more of an impact, than, let's say, WX's wetness downside because you'll have eyebrella already, wicker's insomnia because no one really uses sleeping because of how long it takes to restore stats with it, walter's sanity loss on hit because with thulecite crowns/suits it's hard to get insane this way by taking damage (these also apply to early-game tbh but still).

 

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This isn't just a Warly exclusive thing character perks that don't setup or assist in auto farming or travel don't mean much in the end game even applies to wolfgang even more so when you compare his benefits with Wanda. As far as not seeing people using temp dishes idk I see them using them but could be a difference in servers but again that could be region specific I rarely see Wolfgang lately. Wanda isn't really a fair comparison since no character stands close to her.

I'm not talking about being useful in auto-farming or travelling, he isn't really useful in anything after he finished cooking his unique dishes and have put them into a wrap. And again, I'm not talking about late-game only, I'm talking about any point in time when celestial orb drops.

Also, Wolfgang is close to Wanda in terms of effectiveness, don't exclude that. Of course, in late-game she's better because of fast-travel, but in early-game and mid-game Wolfgang remains the better option.

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3 hours ago, grumm9690 said:

"let's not fix that character because 5% of the community already likes him"
Of course I don't have actual statistics, but I don't ever really see Warly players much, although I may be wrong about how many people actually play as him even in late-game.

neither wes and both dont need fixes because they arent broken

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1 minute ago, grumm9690 said:

Annoyance of needing to eat only meaty stews or big amount of other different dishes. Also a bit of annoyance with healling. That's more of an impact, than, let's say, WX's wetness downside because you'll have eyebrella already, wicker's insomnia because no one really uses sleeping because of how long it takes to restore stats with it, walter's sanity loss on hit because with thulecite crowns/suits it's hard to get insane this way by taking damage (these also apply to early-game tbh but still).

You don't need meaty stews if you've been maintaining your food supply you can either gorge yourself on food that doesn't restore as much in varying quantities or you can just use different high hunger recipes that should he avaible to you assuming you've been farming and why wouldn't you have been? As for healing you should have high damage reduction armor at that point, gems should be common at this point so batbat is a option or you can just use salted food or medicine all good options.

11 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

I'm not talking about being useful in auto-farming or travelling, he isn't really useful in anything after he finished cooking his unique dishes and have put them into a wrap. And again, I'm not talking about late-game only, I'm talking about any point in time when celestial orb drops.

That's not the point tho what other characters offer get power creeped by late game items and that's my point Warly's dishes are shareable but they are late level items.

 

13 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Also, Wolfgang is close to Wanda in terms of effectiveness, don't exclude that. Of course, in late-game she's better because of fast-travel, but in early-game and mid-game Wolfgang remains the better option.

In the early game maybe but for a decent player Wolfgang is in a woodie maxwell situation when it comes to Wanda.

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3 hours ago, grumm9690 said:

Complaints about bringing up Wanda/Wolfgang in a character comparison are probably already coming, but Wolfgang gets x2 damage anytime when he wants starting from the 10-th second of the game's start, Wanda only needs 3-4 days to setup an alarming clock, and Warly.. just has x1.8 damage at most 80% of the game year. And he doesn't seem fun, although fun is a subjective thing so there won't be much sense in arguing about how fun he is, to me his downside seems not that fun because it's solved by just eating meaty stews and kiting.

Also, after all, what's so bad in adding one or two more perks for late-game to an already, as you cay, functional and fun character? This would only make him better.

comparing characters is a non sense because what makes someone play a character isnt only their upsides but also how is their gameplay, their difficulty, etc. For example i dont really enjoy characters that came with poweful perks without effort because i have many hours in this game, for that i enjoy warly but that shouldn't be mandatory for every player and less in a game with such learning curve and can be seen in the stadistics how wigfrid and wendy are top played characters because how easy is to survive as them so they can focus on learning advanced stuff. Should every character make the survival aspect of the game as easy as them just to match some numbers instead of having a real variety of difficulties and platstyles? i think the answere is obvious

also if warly isnt that strong why everybody wants his perks????

i shared my opinion about others asking for a buff on the stats he receives from food, nothing else and nothing that will change. Idk why you come to have this argument with such bland points about another topic since im bot close to other kind of buffs (like extending the buff from foods)

21 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

I'm not talking about being useful in auto-farming or travelling, he isn't really useful in anything after he finished cooking his unique dishes and have put them into a wrap. And again, I'm not talking about late-game only, I'm talking about any point in time when celestial orb drops.

this feels more like your problem with the portal than an actual character problem 

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35 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

neither wes and both dont need fixes because they arent broken

Wes is a challenge character, Warly isn't, that's not really comparable because in late-game there's no challenge anyway so it makes sense why no one picks him. Meanwhile Warly just has no perks for himself once he's done cooking.

 

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You don't need meaty stews if you've been maintaining your food supply you can either gorge yourself on food that doesn't restore as much in varying quantities or you can just use different high hunger recipes that should he avaible to you assuming you've been farming and why wouldn't you have been? As for healing you should have high damage reduction armor at that point, gems should be common at this point so batbat is a option or you can just use salted food or medicine all good options.

As I already said, it's more than what other characters change in your playstyle during late-game even though it isn't much, even though still a bit annoying.

 

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

That's not the point tho what other characters offer get power creeped by late game items and that's my point Warly's dishes are shareable but they are late level items.

So, and? This doesn't really justify that he's just a swap character in late-game.

 

27 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

In the early game maybe but for a decent player Wolfgang is in a woodie maxwell situation when it comes to Wanda.

Does early-game automatically mean being a bad player or something? Why? Early-game is the early days of a world, not small skill level or whatever you thought. Also, no, Wolfgang is more useful in early-game because you won't teleport around much anyway except probably travelling to lunar, so Wanda will only have backstep and clock-whip, meanwhile Wolfgang will also have faster carrying for lunar altars & shadow pieces, x1.5 work multiplier for ruins and resource-gathering in general etc.

 

25 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

comparing charcater is a non sense because what makes someone play a character isnt only their upsides but also how is their gameplay, their difficulty, etc. For example i dont really enjoy characters that came with poweful perks without effort, for that i enjoy warly but that shouldn't be mandatory for every player and less in a game with such learning curve and can be seen in the stadistics how wigfrid and wendy are top played characters because how easy is to survive as them so they can focus on learning advanced stuff. Should every character make the survival aspect of the game as easy as them just to match some numbers instead of having a real variety of difficulties and platstyles? i think the answere is obvious

Warly was never intended to be the no-upsides-different-playstyle kind of character, or at least his initial game-design doesn't seem to give a single tip about this. That's why I want him to not only be sort of interesting (even though he honestly isn't, you're just restricted to eating meaty stew or queuing eating bacon & eggs with something else during late-game and that's it, more of an annoyance than anything, but that's imo), but also be useful, that's what he originally was. If you want challenge of that sort, you know, there are already even mods for applying Warly's food debuff to other characters and similar stuff of that sort, so nothing would be lost forever if he'd be changed to have more upsides.

Also, your message (or more specifically it's part which I was answering to) was about saying that Warly is strong, that's why I started talking about why he isn't.

 

25 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

also if warly isnt that strong why everybody wants his perks????

Who does though? I'm not seeing people these days saying that Warly's stuff is good in late-game for anything except volt goat jelly to be honest. and even then, jelly works on full power only 20-25% of the year and is only good if combined with another character's damage multiplier. And early-game or mid-game you'll probably have a goal to prioritize and so you can pick a specific char like Wolfgang for boss rush or Maxwell for more passive base-building playstyle, not the Warly which is all-around pretty good with spices but far from perfect

 

25 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i shared my opinion about others asking for a buff on the stats he receives from food, nothing else and nothing that will change. Idk why you come to have this argument with such bland points about another topic since im bot close to other kind of buffs (like extending the buff from foods)

.What are you talking about? Which another topic? Which bland points about it? Did I in your opinion even mention the more stats from food thing? You said about it twice already, and I didn't say anything about it even once except those respones to you talking about it, but even then I didn't say that this would be the perfect perk or something, although that still would be nicer than nothing at all.

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2 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

As I already said, it's more than what other characters change in your playstyle during late-game even though it isn't much, even though still a bit annoying.

This seems more opinion than fact tho.

 

3 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

So, and? This doesn't really justify that he's just a swap character in late-game.

And other characters aren't? Do you need a permanent harvester or fighter?

5 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Does early-game automatically mean being a bad player or something? Why? Early-game is the early days of a world, not small skill level or whatever you thought. Also, no, Wolfgang is more useful in early-game because you won't teleport around much anyway except probably travelling to lunar, so Wanda will only have backstep and clock-whip, meanwhile Wolfgang will also have faster carrying for lunar altars & shadow pieces, x1.5 work multiplier for ruins and resource-gathering in general etc.

So Wolfgang is fine because he's stronger than Wanda till she gets her clock and afterwards he still has niche easily replaceable perks till Wanda gets her teleports? But Warly isn't because his perks are shareable via the portal somehow completely unlike how someone could swap to Wanda or Wolfgang for boss fights then switch to the character of their choice?

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1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

This seems more opinion than fact tho.

Annoyance part? Yeah, probably. But that his downside impacts the way you play more than, let's say, WX's, if more of a fact.

 

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And other characters aren't? Do you need a permanent harvester or fighter?

"Swap character" means that people swap to that character just to get his/her items and swap back to their main character. Sure, maybe someone would play as a combat character like Wanda/Wendy or whatever in late-game, I'm seeing even Wendy more often in late-game than Warly being played for more than how much it takes to cook his foods.

 

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So Wolfgang is fine because he's stronger than Wanda till she gets her clock and afterwards he still has niche easily replaceable perks till Wanda gets her teleports? But Warly isn't because his perks are shareable via the portal somehow completely unlike how someone could swap to Wanda or Wolfgang for boss fights then switch to the character of their choice?

Wolfgang is still sometimes played in late-game because he allows tanking unlike Wanda and some people don't always kite, even though tanking isn't efficient. And he is at least really good at early-game, meanwhile, as I already said, Warly is more of a bit good in everything, but not perfect in anything character, so you're ending up in a better situation if you pick a specialized character for your goal of rushing bosses or making megabase than picking Warly, so he isn't even really useful in early-game or mid-game. Those "shareable" perks are the issue because he has nothing else other than that, so his perks are used, but he himself isn't even played by anyone the rest of the time when there are still some of his dishes left in cooked state.

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11 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Annoyance part? Yeah, probably. But that his downside impacts the way you play more than, let's say, WX's, if more of a fact.

Yea and Wolfgang's is more noticable than willow's

12 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

"Swap character" means that people swap to that character just to get his/her items and swap back to their main character. Sure, maybe someone would play as a combat character like Wanda/Wendy or whatever in late-game, I'm seeing even Wendy more often in late-game than Warly being played for more than how much it takes to cook his foods.

And that's always been a flawed understanding people had items I got from x from killing y don't disappear when I switch to z.

16 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Wolfgang is still sometimes played in late-game because he allows tanking unlike Wanda and some people don't always kite, even though tanking isn't efficient.

And some people just use auto farms, some people use wendy for late game hound waves, some people  use Maxwell for mega bases, some people use Walter for cave bases,the common thread being some people. Not everyone is good at combat either so I guess Wolfgang is out too then?

38 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Those "shareable" perks are the issue because he has nothing else other than that, so his perks are used, but he himself isn't even played by anyone the rest of the time when there are still some of his dishes left in cooked state.

That's the thing tho people are still playing him I haven't seen many even willing to go thru the whole pick and swap process likely because he himself offers more to a team than Wolfgang 

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I really like Wendy's refresh. It made the connection between her and her sister so much more than just a ghost that follows you. They are more like a team now. I also like how the refresh had an affect on the constant itself, even if it's a small one. I wish we had more of that. The only thing I don't like is how Abigail attacks friendly spider's, wish they would change that.

Warly's update added so much helpful food that can help the entire group, making him a great support character. I don't believe he should be the only character who benefits from his food's, it kinda ruins the "Together" part. It makes him useful to a team. If he was the only one to benefit from his food, it would force people to play him instead of choosing to

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30 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Yea and Wolfgang's is more noticable than willow's

He doesn't have a downside except needing to stay still for 5 seconds with a gembell/marbell if you somehow got into wimpy form.

 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

And that's always been a flawed understanding people had items I got from x from killing y don't disappear when I switch to z.

Where did I mention killing something? Where did I say that the items should disappear? When did I even say that this should be fixed completely? Do I really need to explain THIRD TIME that it'll be ok to keep Warly's dishes when swapping chars but he should be given some new upsides that work in late-game as well?

 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

And some people just use auto farms, some people use wendy for late game hound waves, some people  use Maxwell for mega bases, some people use Walter for cave bases,the common thread being some people. Not everyone is good at combat either so I guess Wolfgang is out too then?

How can you possibly be bad at combat in general if, as I mentioned, it's possible to tank as Wolfgang if you don't have any skill in fights in this game? And I didn't say that Wanda is pointless because of that, I said that Wolfgang at least has his place, especially if someone on the team already picked Wanda and provides teleports through rift watches for the rest of the team.

 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

That's the thing tho people are still playing him I haven't seen many even willing to go thru the whole pick and swap process likely because he himself offers more to a team than Wolfgang 

What does Warly offer? Very minor increases in defense and damage through spices, honey spice which is outperformed by using Maxwell and even Wolfgang has x1.5 work multiplier, and volt goat jelly which only works 20-25% of the year at it's fullest and outside of that time of the year is weaker than both Wolfgang and Wanda?

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30 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

He doesn't have a downside except needing to stay still for 5 seconds with a gembell/marbell if you somehow got into wimpy form.

Not the point either of us made willow losing temp slightly faster is less noticeable and impactful than that might meter management.

 

32 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Where did I mention killing something? Where did I say that the items should disappear? When did I even say that this should be fixed completely? Do I really need to explain THIRD TIME that it'll be ok to keep Warly's dishes when swapping chars but he should be given some new upsides that work in late-game as well?

You didn't but your talking about what a character contributes as a example killing wasn't the point of my argument but what Wolfgang contributes is killing. Warly's damage, defense, and work speed dishes don't fall off period especially in groups and work into the late game. Even his temp dishes give you less to worry about from the season.

58 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

How can you possibly be bad at combat in general if, as I mentioned, it's possible to tank as Wolfgang if you don't have any skill in fights in this game? And I didn't say that Wanda is pointless because of that, I said that Wolfgang at least has his place, especially if someone on the team already picked Wanda and provides teleports through rift watches for the rest of the team.

This is like asking how can someone die in combat how do you want me to answer that people die to all kinds of things all the time? Also I wasn't trying to imply you said Wanda is pointless but on that note when people are looking to tank they pick wigfrid not Wolfgang as she's made for it and Wanda's benefits don't end at just damage output and teleporting.

1 hour ago, grumm9690 said:

What does Warly offer? Very minor increases in defense and damage through spices, honey spice which is outperformed by using Maxwell and even Wolfgang has x1.5 work multiplier, and volt goat jelly which only works 20-25% of the year at it's fullest and outside of that time of the year is weaker than both Wolfgang and Wanda?

33% damage reduction is minor huh? Add to that a 70 percent damage increase on the rest of the year is equally minor too you say? So what your telling me is if you had a group of 4 people said group would prefer 1 Wolfgang dealing 2x damage alongside them vs all for of them dealing 1.7x damage alongside other perks?

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6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Not the point either of us made willow losing temp slightly faster is less noticeable and impactful than that might meter management.

The price of having an upside as well, meanwhile Warly has not really any upside in late-game.

 

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

You didn't but your talking about what a character contributes as a example killing wasn't the point of my argument but what Wolfgang contributes is killing. Warly's damage, defense, and work speed dishes don't fall off period especially in groups and work into the late game. Even his temp dishes give you less to worry about from the season.

Honey spice is replaced by using bearger/reanimated skeleton, so only combat dishes & spices are left, and mass production of temperatue dishes seems like a hell, especially if you aren't playing solo and others want to be buffed by them too.

 

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This is like asking how can someone die in combat how do you want me to answer that people die to all kinds of things all the time? Also I wasn't trying to imply you said Wanda is pointless but on that note when people are looking to tank they pick wigfrid not Wolfgang as she's made for it and Wanda's benefits don't end at just damage output and teleporting.

1. People die in combat when tanking only if they underprepared or did some silly mistake or misstiming like failing to use dragofnly pan flute in time. That's pretty rare to happen if it isn't their first try.

2. Wigfrid is, probably, a worse tank than Wolfgang because Wolfgang makes the fights quicker and this way also saves you both heals and armor (unlike Wigfrid, btw, which saves only heals). Although I'm not saying that I'm sure that he's 100% better, I didn't really compare them in that.

3. Wanda's perks end at damage multiplier and teleportation, in fact. Ok, there are also revives, but if we're discussing late-game, you'll already be able to produce a ton of red amulets as any character if you need, so, eh, not that important.

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

33% damage reduction is minor huh? Add to that a 70 percent damage increase on the rest of the year is equally minor too you say? So what your telling me is if you had a group of 4 people said group would prefer 1 Wolfgang dealing 2x damage alongside them vs all for of them dealing 1.7x damage alongside other perks?

1. It's x1.8/+80% in fact lol, damage multiplication goes differently in DST, it's not 20%+50%=70%, it's 1.2*1.5=1.8.

2. Depends on how big the team is and their character picks, I was mostly talking about solo when saying that Warly is completely outclassed by characters that have a specialization.

 

This have gone a bit too far. Let's return to main point. Warly wasn't intended to be a challenge character, but he only has a downside when playing as him in late-game and no upsides at all after he finished cooking. I wish that he'd get some perks for himself that would also be useful in late-game. What's wrong with that? Would adding a few more perks/upsides hurt that much?

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44 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

1. People die in combat when tanking only if they underprepared or did some silly mistake or misstiming like failing to use dragofnly pan flute in time. That's pretty rare to happen if it isn't their first try.

2. Wigfrid is, probably, a worse tank than Wolfgang because Wolfgang makes the fights quicker and this way also saves you both heals and armor (unlike Wigfrid, btw, which saves only heals). Although I'm not saying that I'm sure that he's 100% better, I didn't really compare them in that.

3. Wanda's perks end at damage multiplier and teleportation, in fact. Ok, there are also revives, but if we're discussing late-game, you'll already be able to produce a ton of red amulets as any character if you need, so, eh, not that important.

Tanking is already a massive resource investment in many fights and the fact Wigfrid has cheaper armor in this regard makes her a better tank if said player plans to tank all bosses and her damage reduction, natural healing, and songs offer a much safer tanking experience which is why she's the one used for tanking not Wolfgang by most people. On the other hand more experienced players who do kite will go to Wanda because she does what Wolfgang does better including having a weapon that doesn't break, has more reach for safer kiting, has a backstep watch for additional help in some boss fights, and teleportation ignoring Wolfgang's damage output what he offers in comparison is niche at best.

48 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

1. It's x1.8/+80% in fact lol, damage multiplication goes differently in DST, it's not 20%+50%=70%, it's 1.2*1.5=1.8.

2. Depends on how big the team is and their character picks, I was mostly talking about solo when saying that Warly is completely outclassed by characters that have a specialization.

 

So your comparing a combat specialist to a support character in a single player setting you see no issues here?

51 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

This have gone a bit too far. Let's return to main point. Warly wasn't intended to be a challenge character, but he only has a downside when playing as him in late-game and no upsides at all after he finished cooking. I wish that he'd get some perks for himself that would also be useful in late-game. What's wrong with that? Would adding a few more perks/upsides hurt that much?

Warly isn't a challenge character his downsides much like other characters his have very easy solutions they're just not the most commonly used ones. Warly has multiple perks that work into the end game but the way you see it is since his perks can be shared they don't exist which is a baffling mindset as once again I'll tell you the things you get from a character like Wolfgang are still kept when he leaves so the same applies to him but it seems you feel 'Well technically other characters can't use his damage multiplier therefore his perk exists but because other people can use our support character's buffs because he is a "support character" his perks don't exist after all if he shares it the perk is no longer his right?' The idea your pushing intentionally or not is Warly needs some kind of special power other characters can't make use of because sharing devalues his abilities and noone would be interested in a support character unless it had some really powerful ability that other people couldn't make use of. Tell you what since his dishes being stockpiled is such a concern to you how about we just remove the spoilage removal mechanic from bundling wrap?

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14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Tell you what since his dishes being stockpiled is such a concern to you how about we just remove the spoilage removal mechanic from bundling wrap?

that would make the game tedious just because some people have some kind of problem with the portal mechanic

seems like having extra work strength, extra armor, highest damage boost, extra healing in food, weather inmunity, light, good stats, quick cooking and improved crockpots arent enough perks because a chef needs perks outside of cooking lmao

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3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Tanking is already a massive resource investment in many fights and the fact Wigfrid has cheaper armor in this regard makes her a better tank if said player plans to tank all bosses and her damage reduction, natural healing, and songs offer a much safer tanking experience which is why she's the one used for tanking not Wolfgang by most people. On the other hand more experienced players who do kite will go to Wanda because she does what Wolfgang does better including having a weapon that doesn't break, has more reach for safer kiting, has a backstep watch for additional help in some boss fights, and teleportation ignoring Wolfgang's damage output what he offers in comparison is niche at best.

Still, Wolfgang has faster work speed which helps a lot, backstep is pretty much only used in fuelweaver boss fight and dragonfly but even then, dragonfly is easy to kite manually and fuelweaver's bone cage is solved by using lazy explorer from AG if he dropped one (and after the rework it happens pretty often). He's definitely a good if not better choice than Wanda for first year. Perks like faster rowing and faster carrying don't matter that much, sure, but still. Just a bit of a side-note also that if a player is going to do a short-term speedrun, Wolfgang helps as well, because he doesn't need 3-4 days to set up a weapon.

 

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So your comparing a combat specialist to a support character in a single player setting you see no issues here?

So, are you trying to say that Warly is useless in solo then?

 

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Warly isn't a challenge character his downsides much like other characters his have very easy solutions they're just not the most commonly used ones. Warly has multiple perks that work into the end game but the way you see it is since his perks can be shared they don't exist which is a baffling mindset as once again I'll tell you the things you get from a character like Wolfgang are still kept when he leaves so the same applies to him but it seems you feel 'Well technically other characters can't use his damage multiplier therefore his perk exists but because other people can use our support character's buffs because he is a "support character" his perks don't exist after all if he shares it the perk is no longer his right?' The idea your pushing intentionally or not is Warly needs some kind of special power other characters can't make use of because sharing devalues his abilities and noone would be interested in a support character unless it had some really powerful ability that other people couldn't make use of. Tell you what since his dishes being stockpiled is such a concern to you how about we just remove the spoilage removal mechanic from bundling wrap?

Sure, his downside can be worked around easily, but what's the point of playing as him if he'd have only it? Also, there's a difference. You need to play Wolfgang to kill something as him with his damage multiplier. You don't need to have a single Warly in the world to keep using his foods and spices through unlimited amount of time which only depends on how many foods you already prepared before swapping away. I didn't say that he needs "really powerful ability". Removing main feature of bundling wrap just to prevent Warly portal abuse would be stupid, also powder pies or whatever were they called exist, the ones that last 13k days or something like that.

Also, it's not even necessarily that others shouldn't access the new perks if they'll be, it's just that they should require more active presense of Warly, although in this case it would probably be harder to balance it in terms of fun, to make something that would prevent from just swapping results those perks around like volt goat jelly etc.

What's the point of a character if people play him only for about a day? Delete Warly, make his dishes possible to cook at celestial portal and not much will even change.

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

seems like having extra work strength, extra armor, highest damage boost, extra healing in food, good stats, quick cooking and improved crockpots arent enough perks because a chef needs perks outside of cooking lmao

Nope, it's because he doesn't even need to be played at all except once in few game years for his perks to be used.

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28 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

What's the point of a character if people play him only for about a day? Delete Warly, make his dishes possible to cook at celestial portal and not much will even change.

DST Warly is supremely unfun to play. His character got a heafty downgrade while being moved to DST. In SW he was my favorite character, his gameplay was different but fun. It's the little things that DST changed to his character that I really dislike, stuff like:

Not being able to eat raw foods

Not getting 25% extra stats from dishes <-- this one goes a long way to making him more playable

Making the portable crockpot unable to be picked up at night with a torch (Why is the default action still "light"?)

The slightly longer dish memory timer

The new spices and dishes are awesome and give a huge amount of utility, only the character that makes them is super bad. IMO Warly needs a rework where he can have the character perks from SW while still having the spices and foods. Unrelated but i also dislike the updated sprites he got.

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2 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Still, Wolfgang has faster work speed which helps a lot,

Interesting so this is very helpful but the honey spice isn't curious very curious.

4 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

He's definitely a good if not better choice than Wanda for first year. Perks like faster rowing and faster carrying don't matter that much, sure, but still. Just a bit of a side-note also that if a player is going to do a short-term speedrun, Wolfgang helps as well, because he doesn't need 3-4 days to set up a weapon.

Keyword being don't matter much and if your doing a short-term speedrun character choice doesn't matter and while Wanda takes afew days to setup she requires much less upkeep after she doesn't need to worry about healing foods, can eat bad foods with little to no consequence outside of boss fights often benefiting due to getting fuel for her weapon and her cooldown healing nullifying the hp loss further saving on time. 

9 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

So, are you trying to say that Warly is useless in solo then?

No I'm asking do you go into a game expecting the equal levels of output between a damage dealer and a support character in a solo scenario because if you do you've either got a really crappy damage dealer or a over performing support character.

 

16 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Sure, his downside can be worked around easily, but what's the point of playing as him if he'd have only it? Also, there's a difference. You need to play Wolfgang to kill something as him with his damage multiplier. You don't need to have a single Warly in the world to keep using his foods and spices through unlimited amount of time which only depends on how many foods you already prepared before swapping away.

And again you missing the point when your done killing bosses you don't need Wolfgang to use the spoils as other characters are better suited to do things outside of that.

 

18 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

I didn't say that he needs "really powerful ability". Removing main feature of bundling wrap just to prevent Warly portal abuse would be stupid, also powder pies or whatever were they called exist, the ones that last 13k days or something like that.

But it is what you keep implying as what he has apparently isn't good enough with what he does offer he even has smaller personal perks. Also assuming you used the powdered cakes you'd only get his spices.

22 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Also, it's not even necessarily that others shouldn't access the new perks if they'll be, it's just that they should require more active presense of Warly, although in this case it would probably be harder to balance it in terms of fun, to make something that would prevent from just swapping results those perks around like volt goat jelly etc.

So in other words make Warly a Miserable experience for people who do enjoy Warly because people have to drag him around to make use of his buffs?

23 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

What's the point of a character if people play him only for about a day? Delete Warly, make his dishes possible to cook at celestial portal and not much will even change.

Once again from my experience I really don't see people doing this sure there probably are a small minority but on average most seem to more or less ignore the portal.

3 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

DST Warly is supremely unfun to play. His character got a heafty downgrade while being moved to DST. In SW he was my favorite character, his gameplay was different but fun. It's the little things that DST changed to his character that I really dislike, stuff like:

Not being able to eat raw foods

Not getting 25% extra stats from dishes

Making the portable crockpot unable to be picked up at night with a torch (Why is the default action still "light"?)

The slightly longer dish memory timer

The new spices and dishes are awesome and give a huge amount of utility, only the character that makes them is super bad. IMO Warly needs a rework where he can have the character perks from SW while still having the spices and foods. Unrelated but i also dislike the updated sprites he got.

Now call me crazy but I thought most people didn't like shipwrecked Warly because all his upsides did was balance his downsides?

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26 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

His character got a heafty downgrade while being moved to DST

image.jpg?id=28042110&width=1200&coordin

26 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

Not being able to eat raw foods

which is good, makes you play in a different way in early instead of doing the same damn things than most of the roster

26 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

Not getting 25% extra stats from dishes <-- this one goes a long way to making him more playable

didn't know that playable means removing an interesting downside

26 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

The slightly longer dish memory timer

again, interesting since you cant spam pierogies and cacti (in his case would be taffy). Which is never the case because ends the fights before needing much healing with his damage boost

 

sad that you prefer SW's wilson clone rather than a more powerful and interesting character. Glad klei did a great job with him instead of c&p wilson and add few slight difference that have 0 gameplay impact

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Now call me crazy but I thought most people didn't like shipwrecked Warly because all his upsides did was balance his downsides?

i didnt like him because how uninteresting was to play as him. Just a wilson with better food stats

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16 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

who is forcing you?

The fact that Warly is useless in late-game when his dishes are cooked I guess? It isn't even that interesting to play around with his downside, and not having any useful perks just doesn't feel good.

 

13 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

DST Warly is supremely unfun to play. His character got a heafty downgrade while being moved to DST. In SW he was my favorite character, his gameplay was different but fun. It's the little things that DST changed to his character that I really dislike, stuff like:

Not being able to eat raw foods

Not getting 25% extra stats from dishes <-- this one goes a long way to making him more playable

Making the portable crockpot unable to be picked up at night with a torch (Why is the default action still "light"?)

The slightly longer dish memory timer

The new spices and dishes are awesome and give a huge amount of utility, only the character that makes them is super bad. IMO Warly needs a rework where he can have the character perks from SW while still having the spices and foods. Unrelated but i also dislike the updated sprites he got.

Finally someone who agrees that DST Warly is just boring.

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Interesting so this is very helpful but the honey spice isn't curious very curious.

Weren't we talking purely about honey spice in late-game when we discussed it?

 

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Keyword being don't matter much and if your doing a short-term speedrun character choice doesn't matter and while Wanda takes afew days to setup she requires much less upkeep after she doesn't need to worry about healing foods, can eat bad foods with little to no consequence outside of boss fights often benefiting due to getting fuel for her weapon and her cooldown healing nullifying the hp loss further saving on time. 

If we're talking about speedruns now, simple truth time, it'd be more efficient to kite in more of a long-term run like all bosses speedrun/rush anyway, only bee queen so far is more optimal to partially tank than kite (and even then, only when you just lured away grumbles and BQ is alone there).

 

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

No I'm asking do you go into a game expecting the equal levels of output between a damage dealer and a support character in a solo scenario because if you do you've either got a really crappy damage dealer or a over performing support character.

I expect Warly to be not outclassed in solo or at least useful in late-game multiplayer, preferably at least the second or both.

 

16 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And again you missing the point when your done killing bosses you don't need Wolfgang to use the spoils as other characters are better suited to do things outside of that.

Yeah, and as Warly you don't need to kill bosses him, don't need to do work like mining/chopping as him and don't need to garden, it all can be done as other character and then Warly can just be used as the way to turn all farmed stuff into dishes and forget about his existence.

 

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

But it is what you keep implying as what he has apparently isn't good enough with what he does offer he even has smaller personal perks. Also assuming you used the powdered cakes you'd only get his spices.

I didn't say that he needs a super powerful perk. Just some useful one which doesn't get transfered completely by swapping. Even singleplayer's additional stats from dishes may work, and yeah I remember arubaro's message about this possibly making Warly players spam dishes but then, just increase the percent of penalty for eating repetitive dishes, so, like, second repeated dish only gives 70% of stats instead of 90% and so on.

 

22 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So in other words make Warly a Miserable experience for people who do enjoy Warly because people have to drag him around to make use of his buffs?

In other words it seems that you didn't read what I said. Quoting myself:

50 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

it would probably be harder to balance it in terms of fun

That's why I didn't take shareable but still requiring Warly perks as the main idea.

24 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Once again from my experience I really don't see people doing this sure there probably are a small minority but on average most seem to more or less ignore the portal.

In pretty much all long-term late-game worlds that have megabase and stuff in plans people just stockpile Warly's stuff in bundles and that's when they play him, preparing the dishes, after that just swap.

 

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7 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Finally someone who agrees that DST Warly is just boring.

for you both is boring. He isnt boring. Is a subjective opinion. i could say that winona, wolfgang, wigfrid, wendy, weeber, wickerbottom or maxwell are boring because i dont have fun with them but wont be the truth for many players 

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32 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Yeah, and as Warly you don't need to kill bosses him, don't need to do work like mining/chopping as him and don't need to garden, it all can be done as other character and then Warly can just be used as the way to turn all farmed stuff into dishes and forget about his existence.

And you don't need to play Wolfgang at all you can play Wanda and forget about his existence you don't need him for any of these things either.

 

35 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Even singleplayer's additional stats from dishes may work, and yeah I remember arubaro's message about this possibly making Warly players spam dishes but then, just increase the percent of penalty for eating repetitive dishes, so, like, second repeated dish only gives 70% of stats instead of 90% and so on.

You do realize salt spice gives a 25% increase to healing foods making it equal to his single player stat boost in terms of healing right?(or does this not count because other characters can benefit from it too?) This is also without having the downside of negative effects of food becoming stronger with each repeat.

45 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

In other words it seems that you didn't read what I said. Quoting myself:

1 hour ago, grumm9690 said:

it would probably be harder to balance it in terms of fun

That's why I didn't take shareable but still requiring Warly perks as the main idea.

No I read what you said but I feel like your not understanding what that would mean unless the food turns to rot or something the moment Warly leaves any "solution" in this regard would just penalize Warly players specifically by limiting their freedom in a group.

48 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

In pretty much all long-term late-game worlds that have megabase and stuff in plans people just stockpile Warly's stuff in bundles and that's when they play him, preparing the dishes, after that just swap.

I see in the late game when auto boss farms are rampant and a lot of people don't even directly fight the bosses outside of because they feel like it and character perks outside of Wanda's teleports contribute little to nothing at all well I mean you got me there I guess.

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2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

And you don't need to play Wolfgang at all you can play Wanda and forget about his existence you don't need him for any of these things either.

You do need Wolfgang for short-term runs, he's really useful for that. Wanda is barely an upgrade from him if we take into attention early-game and mid-game, only in late-game she has useful teleportation but you can just have one Wanda per whole team. x2 damage + x1.5 work multiplier is better than just x2 damage.

 

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You do realize salt spice gives a 25% increase to healing foods making it equal to his single player stat boost in terms of healing right?(or does this not count because other characters can benefit from it too?) This is also without having the downside of negative effects of food becoming stronger with each repeat.

Salt spice only affects healing and is annoying to produce, I barely ever see anyone bothering to make it even when playing Warly.

 

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

No I read what you said but I feel like your not understanding what that would mean unless the food turns to rot or something the moment Warly leaves any "solution" in this regard would just penalize Warly players specifically by limiting their freedom in a group.

Ok, here's a simple but sort of more fun solution from another mod. All normal dishes that Warly cooks in his crockpot give x1.33 stats but spoil x2 faster. Sure, those can also be bundled and swapped around but I doubt that someone would bother with mass-producing it this way. And even then, you can disable the ability to put them into bundling wraps. This isn't the perfect solution but better than instantly making his foods rot or whatever you said.

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I see in the late game when auto boss farms are rampant and a lot of people don't even directly fight the bosses outside of because they feel like it and character perks outside of Wanda's teleports contribute little to nothing at all well I mean you got me there I guess.

Well, some bosses can't be auto-farmed that easily. Is there any set-up for CC auto-farming that doesn't require you to afk two-three days around houndiuses or catapults on boats/another part of lunar island blocked by water? I'm not sure that there isn't any, but last time I checked there wasn't.

 

51 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

for you both is boring. He isnt boring. Is a subjective opinion. i could say that winona, wolfgang, wigfrid, wendy, weeber, wickerbottom or maxwell are boring because i dont have fun with them but wont be the truth for many players 

Ok, fine, it's subjective. Although I'm really rarely seeing anyone play Winona at all and Warly/Wickerbottom in late-game because of all their items being swappable around (Maxwell can read Wickerbottom's books btw). But not exactly the main point.

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4 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

You do need Wolfgang for short-term runs, he's really useful for that. Wanda is barely an upgrade from him if we take into attention early-game and mid-game, only in late-game she has useful teleportation but you can just have one Wanda per whole team. x2 damage + x1.5 work multiplier is better than just x2 damage.

So he's good because he gets slightly faster choping and mining in the first Autumn? Pigs can chop wood you know? It feels like your grasping at straws to make him seem relevant compared to Wanda by overselling his niche side while downplaying Wanda's advantages. You don't "need" need Wolfgang for short term runs you just want him for early game runs and that's fine liking a character just because is fine.

 

13 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Ok, here's a simple but sort of more fun solution from another mod. All normal dishes that Warly cooks in his crockpot give x1.33 stats but spoil x2 faster. Sure, those can also be bundled and swapped around but I doubt that someone would bother with mass-producing it this way.

This fixes nothing at all this is legit just nerfing Warly this is a just plain bad like what even is the benefit for Warly himself in this?

16 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

And even then, you can disable the ability to put them into bundling wraps.

So pretty much the same thing as what I said earlier and even then I was being a bit sarcastic but hey maybe this will help you feel like they're "his perks" I guess even though they are.

23 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Well, some bosses can't be auto-farmed that easily. Is there any set-up for CC auto-farming that doesn't require you to afk two-three days around houndiuses or catapults on boats/another part of lunar island blocked by water? I'm not sure that there isn't any, but last time I checked there wasn't.

Can't say I've kept up with the Celestial Champion farming methods but like why would you farm him most late game worlds just leave up it up to keep infinite full moons.

26 minutes ago, grumm9690 said:

Ok, fine, it's subjective. Although I'm really rarely seeing anyone play Winona at all and Warly/Wickerbottom in late-game because of all their items being swappable around (Maxwell can read Wickerbottom's books btw). But not exactly the main point.

Can't speak much for your experience but I usually see Wanda, Wendy, and wigfrid as the most common then a mix of Webber, Wormwood, Warly, Wolfgang, and Woodie in late game worlds.

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13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So he's good because he gets slightly faster choping and mining in the first Autumn? Pigs can chop wood you know? It feels like your grasping at straws to make him seem relevant compared to Wanda by overselling his niche side while downplaying Wanda's advantages. You don't "need" need Wolfgang for short term runs you just want him for early game runs and that's fine liking a character just because is fine.

Pigs can't really mine ruins statues or hammer broken clockworks so helps a lot with ruins without even mentioning just mining boulders if you'll need that. I'm just saying that he has more advantages than Wanda early-game and mid-game because her teleports aren't really useful in those parts of the game. Short-term run pretty much == early-game run I guess because short-term is basically making a run which doesn't exit the early-game phase really and ends before day 5 usually. Also, what is there that Wanda can offer early-game except backstep which only works for fuelweaver and alarming clock?

 

16 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This fixes nothing at all this is legit just nerfing Warly this is a just plain bad like what even is the benefit for Warly himself in this?

More stats from food, duh. How is that a nerf if with portable crockpot you're free to cook the food as you go anyway so shortened spoilage doesn't play that much of a role, and espeically the bundle wraps restriction (which I didn't even say that it surely should be added, just an assumption over the original idea).

 

17 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So pretty much the same thing as what I said earlier and even then I was being a bit sarcastic but hey maybe this will help you feel like they're "his perks" I guess even though they are.

You said disabling bundling for also his unique crockpot dishes and also all dishes in the game, or, well, the spoilage stopping in them. I just said that only normal dishes cooked by Warly MAYBE shouldn't go into wraps, not his unique ones.

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

you feel like they're "his perks" I guess even though they are.

Also, what even this means?

 

19 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Can't say I've kept up with the Celestial Champion farming methods but like why would you farm him most late game worlds just leave up it up to keep infinite full moons.

CC crowns for everyone and maybe also infinite mushlights & glowcaps. Also, ngl I've seen way too many woodie mains complain in late-game worlds that they can't properly live with moonstorms lol because full moons each day.

 

20 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Can't speak much for your experience but I usually see Wanda, Wendy, and wigfrid as the most common then a mix of Webber, Wormwood, Warly, Wolfgang, and Woodie in late game worlds.

like, and? But ok.

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