Randomness in this game is what kills the fun

[Mike23Ua]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

lmao no look doom eternal which basically requires you to sink 500$ on a gpu if you want to stand a chance at performing certain skips that are framerate dependent

are you high

In every professional competitive nature of speed running (Aka not doom eternal) but something like the genesis book of world records: Everyone has to be able to beat you the exact same way you did it.. but better.

Otherwise you can’t really hold a record if people can’t compete to obtain it.

Sure you may be insanely good at what you do, but as I stated.. do you take into account factors such as a Hamlet speed run where you just so happen to get lucky with gathering resources while someone who is trying to beat your record continues to get screwed over by things such as much more frequent snakes/scorpions from their gathered resources..

Do you take into consideration & factor the extra time it took the player in dealing with the issues you never had to deal with as part of the speed run? Or do you just automatically beat them because they spent 5-6 extra minutes dealing with their RNG screw job?

Theres a reason DS/DST don’t have Genesis world record speed run holders- it’s because such a category is nigh impossible to exist & be equal parts fair.

[goodguythatguy]

1 minute ago, jan Mele said:

This is not a place to discuss *people*

We are talking about contents of a game and related things

  1 hour ago, kirihime said:

calling someone a speedrunner is hardly a trophy and it's certainly not something to be proud of

I feel like that is very insulting to a very competitive and very difficult skillset that is absolutely an achievment to be happy about!
 

[Third Porkus]

1 minute ago, goodguythatguy said:

Because you are claiming a comment is insulting to a skillset. That's just...whatever.

That isn't manipulative, I am sharing how I feel. I used the words "I feel" not "that is", and as a speedrunner and discussing this with another speedrunner, I can say that it is somewhat hurtful towards speedrunners since it demeans something they pride in or find self worth in. 

[goodguythatguy]

1 minute ago, Third Porkus said:

That isn't manipulative, I am sharing how I feel. I used the words "I feel" not "that is", and as a speedrunner and discussing this with another speedrunner, I can say that it is somewhat hurtful towards speedrunners since it demeans something they pride in or find self worth in. 

I have shared how I feel, I feel you are manipulative and tyrannical. They are my feelings and I'm entitled to them because they're my feelings.

[Third Porkus]

Just now, goodguythatguy said:

I have shared how I feel, I feel you are manipulative and tyrannical. They are my feelings and I'm entitled to them because they're my feelings.

Yes I agree with that, but if I can explain my side then that may change how you feel as you can see from another perspective 

[Guille6785]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

In every professional competitive nature of speed running (Aka not doom eternal) but something like the genesis book of world records: Everyone has to be able to beat you the exact same way you did it.. but better.

Otherwise you can’t really hold a record if people can’t compete to obtain it.

Sure you may be insanely good at what you do, but as I stated.. do you take into account factors such as a Hamlet speed run where you just so happen to get lucky with gathering resources while someone who is trying to beat your record continues to get screwed over by things such as much more frequent snakes/scorpions from their gathered resources..

Do you take into consideration & factor the extra time it took the player in dealing with the issues you never had to deal with as part of the speed run? Or do you just automatically beat them because they spent 5-6 extra minutes dealing with their RNG screw job?

Theres a reason DS/DST don’t have Genesis world record speed run holders- it’s because such a category is nigh impossible to exist & be equal parts fair.

try seeded runs

also I'm more impressed by a slower run that worked around bad rng with their own strategies vs a faster run that bypassed it completely

[goodguythatguy]

Just now, Third Porkus said:

Yes I agree with that, but if I can explain my side then that may change how you feel as you can see from another perspective 

Yes, you want to change how I feel and how I see, how is that not at the very least manipulative, if not tyrannical?

[Third Porkus]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

Sure you may be insanely good at what you do, but as I stated.. do you take into account factors such as a Hamlet speed run where you just so happen to get lucky with gathering resources while someone who is trying to beat your record continues to get screwed over by things such as much more frequent snakes/scorpions from their gathered resources..

Do you take into consideration & factor the extra time it took the player in dealing with the issues you never had to deal with as part of the speed run? Or do you just automatically beat them because they spent 5-6 extra minutes dealing with their RNG screw job?

Well yes he does since he has had to deal with all of that himself, its not that he gets lucky every time he plays, he can spend two weeks grinding speedruns before he gets a really good one, I believe thats how long it took for fuelweaver world record

Just now, goodguythatguy said:

Yes, you want to change how I feel and how I see, how is that not at the very least manipulative, if not tyrannical?

Manipulate: control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.

That is the definition of manipulate. It is fair to explain my feelings and my intensions behind things, as it is for you to do so as well. I am not lying about anything, trying to trick you, or control you, am simply explaining my side. 

[Guille6785]

2 minutes ago, goodguythatguy said:

Yes, you want to change how I feel and how I see, how is that not at the very least manipulative, if not tyrannical?

that's called an argument

[goodguythatguy]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

that's called an argument

I'm tryin', maybe I got too high.

3 minutes ago, Third Porkus said:

Well yes he does since he has had to deal with all of that himself, its not that he gets lucky every time he plays, he can spend two weeks grinding speedruns before he gets a really good one, I believe thats how long it took for fuelweaver world record

Manipulate: control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.

That is the definition of manipulate. It is fair to explain my feelings and my intensions behind things, as it is for you to do so as well. I am not lying about anything, trying to trick you, or control you, am simply explaining my side. 

Are you simply explaining your side or are you trying to change how I feel and see like you said before? What you're claiming to be doing has changed all the sudden. 

[Third Porkus]

2 minutes ago, goodguythatguy said:

I'm tryin', maybe I got too high.

Are you simply explaining your side or are you trying to change how I feel and see like you said before? What you're claiming to be doing has changed all the sudden. 

Explaining my feelings and letting you see my side of things so that there can be less harm being done. 
I said:

Yes I agree with that, but if I can explain my side then that may change how you feel as you can see from another perspective 

and

It is fair to explain my feelings and my intensions behind things, as it is for you to do so as well. 

That is not hypocritical, and am not saying you have to change how you feel, I am saying that if you knew how I feel and my intensions that you may change how you feel as you can understand me better

[Dragonboooorn]

where is JoeW with his signature "please stay on topic" ???

[goodguythatguy]

Just now, Third Porkus said:

Explaining my feelings and letting you see my side of things so that there can be less harm being done. 
I said:

Yes I agree with that, but if I can explain my side then that may change how you feel as you can see from another perspective 

and

It is fair to explain my feelings and my intensions behind things, as it is for you to do so as well. 

That is not hypocritical, and am not saying you have to change how you feel, I am saying that if you knew how I feel and my intensions that you may change how you feel as you can understand me better

You're assuming I don't understand you perfectly well. You feel a skillset can be insulted...I understand that, but I'm not changing how I feel or how I see. The skillset was never insulted, and a skillset can never be insulted. 

[kirihime]

let's get back to the original topic

does don't starve count as a roguelike

 

[goodguythatguy]

People are calling for moderation action over here. It's probably a good time to play some DST and shut my stupid mouth.

[Third Porkus]

1 minute ago, goodguythatguy said:

The skillset was never insulted, and a skillset can never be insulted. 

well saying its not something to be proud of is insulting to it, people can be proud of anything so that is to be interpreted that it is something that people cannot be proud of it.

 

1 minute ago, kirihime said:

let's get back to the original topic

does don't starve count as a roguelike

 

I know the devs intended to model it like a roguelike, I would say yes

[Primalflower]

2 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

telling my mom to take ibuprofen doesn't turn me into a pharmacist

it's not elitism not to want to award participation trophies to everyone and their mother, anyone who isn't a novice can come out of the ruins before winter, if it's fine to refer to all those people as speedrunners then the word just loses its meaning completely

Um, I think there is absolutely a big difference between actively attempting to speed through a video game such as mario 64 and not necessarily being the best at it, and fetching someone medicine. There is some weird elitism here even if you dont mean it, especially with the losing meaning thing.

 

[jan Mele]

12 minutes ago, kirihime said:

let's get back to the original topic

does don't starve count as a roguelike

I wouldn't say so. It has the characteristics people commonly attribute to roguelikes, but it plays more around the permadeath thing. The runs vary depending on *your* aproach, not what the game spits out. It's more like minecraft. 

Spoiler

Please don't turn into another war about roguelites and rogueclones and which ones should be called roguelikes

 

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, kirihime said:

let's get back to the original topic

does don't starve count as a roguelike

 

It’s purchaseable under that category on Xbox live so unless Xbox is misleading: Yes it counts as a RogueLike/Lite.

That said: You can also purchase Batman Arkham Knight under Horror category and the only thing scary about that game was maybe one scene with a Batgirl nightmare.

I also think all RogueLike/lites have a sense of RNG progression system to them- However.. for speed runs to exist, then they need to be like Tainted Grail Conquest- Everyone has to use the same character, under the same stipulations, and play through the same seeded world run.. otherwise the speed runs are never legit or fair.

If you watch Klei’s rhyme with play streams there’s actually some scrapped or yet to be used concept art for some very intriguing gameplay features such as Moon Glass was meant to transform/make normally peaceful mobs turn hostile.

I personally still hope that gets into the game at some point, but if it did it would further upset speed runners when random Moonstorm ruins their evening.

[Cloakingsumo198]

The only rng I want taken away is meteor shower size having it constantly bleed out into other biomes is a pain.

[Dragonboooorn]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

If you watch Klei’s rhyme with play streams there’s actually some scrapped or yet to be used concept art for some very intriguing gameplay features such Moon Glass was meant to transform/make normally peaceful mobs turn hostile.

I personally still hope that gets into the game at some point.

There is halloween event special potion that turns items/mobs into their mutated, lunar versions.

So you could say we got this in game 

[Third Porkus]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

I also think all RogueLike/lites have a sense of RNG progression system to them- However.. for speed runs to exist, then they need to be like Tainted Grail Conquest- Everyone has to use the same character, under the same stipulations, and play through the same seeded world run.. otherwise the speed runs are never legit or fair.

as long as the characters are not dlc, everyone has the same chance of a random world and is playing the same game with the same characters available and everything so for it to be a speedrun it just has to not use game changing mods really. You don't need it to all be seeded or on the same seed, in games like Nuclear Throne speedruns and runs are valid even when they are not played on the Daily (which is where everyone gets same seed)

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

The only rng I want taken away is meteor shower size having it constantly bleed out into other biomes is a pain.

Yeah and see, this is why Klei needs to add OPTIONS into the game, you want less meteors, meanwhile I want them to have a chance to fall into any biome on the surface world.

It never hurts to give the players options over how they want their experience to be.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

41 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

In every professional competitive nature of speed running (Aka not doom eternal) but something like the genesis book of world records: Everyone has to be able to beat you the exact same way you did it.. but better.

Otherwise you can’t really hold a record if people can’t compete to obtain it.

Sure you may be insanely good at what you do, but as I stated.. do you take into account factors such as a Hamlet speed run where you just so happen to get lucky with gathering resources while someone who is trying to beat your record continues to get screwed over by things such as much more frequent snakes/scorpions from their gathered resources..

Do you take into consideration & factor the extra time it took the player in dealing with the issues you never had to deal with as part of the speed run? Or do you just automatically beat them because they spent 5-6 extra minutes dealing with their RNG screw job?

Theres a reason DS/DST don’t have Genesis world record speed run holders- it’s because such a category is nigh impossible to exist & be equal parts fair.

literally there are world records that required ketchup on the game cd rom...

[Guille6785]

13 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

There is some weird elitism here even if you dont mean it, especially with the losing meaning thing.

again, I'm not being elitist just because I don't want half of the intermediate playerbase to be called "speedrunners"

maybe you can't relate but that downplays people's achievements because they no longer stand out

meanwhile if you save the praise for the ones that pour their heart into their craft then you are celebrating their accomplishments when it's due

 

pablo.gonzalez.2007 who killed dragonfly with his brother on day 18 won't feel insulted because you refuse to call him a speedrunner, but someone who has spent months practicing for a specific run to make a massive improvement in it will definitely feel undermined if you think their achievement is worth the same as pablo.gonzalez.2007's