[Suggestion] A Simple Fix To Fuel Weaver Cheese

[goatt]

Just allow fuel weaver to have the freedom to autonomy in the spike area. In other words, give him a little bit more space (including the spike area) for free activity.

 

Currently, fuel weaver will want to walk back to his home uncontrollable while stuck, then you can cheese him using various technique.

I suggest he should be able to cast spell while stuck. He should be able to snare, shadow hands, mind control and woven shadow.

He might not use fossil spike attack, since a big area around him is void while stuck..

 

This one single change will reduce the cheesiness of the cheese by a lot.

 

 

Edit:

I’m only guessing Klei’s pattern of cheese fixing, and concluded (guessed) this is a cheese they wanna fix, and posted a simple fix suggestion .

Personally, I don’t care if anyone cheese forever.

[Guille6785]

what does this do to improve the game

[goatt]

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

what does this do to improve the game

To eliminate a cheese that would otherwise trivialize a boss.

[goodguythatguy]

21 minutes ago, goatt said:

To eliminate a cheese that would otherwise trivialize a boss.

You don't have to use that "cheese", but for some reason you want to impose the way you like to play on people that do use this "cheese". As far as I understand, people that use this "cheese" don't want to impose their gameplay preference on you, so what's the deal here? 

I guess if this is how you derive a sense of achievement in life, then all the best with the anti-cheese sentiment and sense of achievement. 

[goatt]

8 minutes ago, goodguythatguy said:

You don't have to use that "cheese", but for some reason you want to impose the way you like to play on people that do use this "cheese".

Not really. I consider it as cheese management. Cheese needs balancing too. Some cheese are fun to keep, some cheese are just game breaking. For example, lately, the grumble pathfinding cheese was fixed. Early, the cheese of avoiding fuel weaver's snare by being near edges is fixed. Some lureplant, statues, heavy stuff blocking boss movement cheese was fixed, and many more earlier.

I look at all the cheeses and compare them, and discovered this one is game breaking and needs to be eliminated, that's all.

If someone one invite me to use this cheese in a pub server, I'll gladly join. But now I only wanna talk about game balance.

 

One way to judge whether a cheese is overpowered, is to compare the reward-to-cost ratio. Is this ratio ok for such an unintended cheese? Some high ratio is ok because they are only available to a special character. But this high ratio of fw is available to every character.

[goodguythatguy]

I see, the game is currently broken, might as well stop playing. 

[goatt]

1 minute ago, goodguythatguy said:

the game is currently broken

I personally think my suggestion is a very minor suggestion. I think the game is getting all the time. xD

[goodguythatguy]

Just now, goatt said:

I personally think my suggestion is a very minor suggestion. I think the game is getting all the time. xD

Sorry, I thought you said the way mechanics as they stand right now are Game Breaking. The Game is Broken unless this mechanic is changed. It's a Broken Game. 

I agree, it's a very minor suggestion. It's not just a minor suggestion, but a very minor suggestion. Right on.

[Guille6785]

8 hours ago, goatt said:

To eliminate a cheese that would otherwise trivialize a boss.

a cheese that is absolutely impossible to do on accident, so you have to go out of your way to use it only if you really want to

if you patch a cheese people will just find another, this change benefits nobody

[goodguythatguy]

8 hours ago, goatt said:

 

If someone one invite me to use this cheese in a pub server, I'll gladly join. But now I only wanna talk about game balance.

 

 

There is a contradiction here. On one hand you're saying you'll gladly join a pub server that uses this cheese. On the other hand you're saying you don't want this type of server to exist ever again and you want there to be no way you can join such a server.

I don't trust, smells like guano.

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

a cheese that is absolutely impossible to do on accident, so you have to go out of your way to use it only if you really want to

if you patch a cheese people will just find another, this change benefits nobody

That’s true. And I have no intention to eliminate all the cheese. I only want to eliminate the cheese that trivialize the design of a boss.

In this case, a stuck fuel weaver is like a glommer. The cost of killing a glommer is just weapon. Sometimes, even weapon is not needed if you know how to do it. It makes the design of the boss obsolete, including all his abilities, arts and animations, dialogues, the aura and feeling of fighting a boss, etc. I acknowledge that it requires effort to lock the boss in, but the overall reward-to-cost ratio is ridiculously cheesy.

In comparison, another cheese that uses void walk to kite an autonomous fuel weaver to avoid all damage and snares is much more balanced, as it still requires players to deal with the invisible shadow hands, shadow woven or boss healing. So if people want to use it, they can.

But sadly, I think void walk will be patched for other reasons in the future.

What I’m doing is simply guessing what Klei wants and providing suggestions regarding what I think they want. In this case, I think what they want is cheese management, which is to patch some really cheesy cheese, but keep the lesser cheeses.

Again, I’m totally fine with using cheeses as I use cheeses sometimes too.

52 minutes ago, goodguythatguy said:

On the other hand you're saying you don't want this type of server to exist ever again and you want there to be no way you can join such a server

You think I said those things, but I never did.

Just because I want something to be better doesn't mean I dislike it now.

Just because I think something is unbalanced doesn't mean I refuse to use it. On the contrary, I used Bee Queen maze cheese heavily before it was patched (that's why losing it forced me to come up with the new wall cross strategy).

I'm a cheese user. That's why I want all cheese to be balanced.

[goodguythatguy]

No, I quoted what you said. You said that you will gladly join a server that uses this cheese, but you do not want such a server to exist and you do not want there to be servers like this that you can gladly join.

Whatevers, you're saying what you're saying and such. 

36 minutes ago, goatt said:

That’s true. And I have no intention to eliminate all the cheese. I only want to eliminate the cheese that trivialize the design of a boss.

In this case, a stuck fuel weaver is like a glommer. The cost of killing a glommer is just weapon. Sometimes, even weapon is not needed if you know how to do it. It makes the design of the boss obsolete, including all his abilities, arts and animations, dialogues, the aura and feeling of fighting a boss, etc. I acknowledge that it requires effort to lock the boss in, but the overall reward-to-cost ratio is ridiculously cheesy.

In comparison, another cheese that uses void walk to kite an autonomous fuel weaver to avoid all damage and snares is much more balanced, as it still requires players to deal with the invisible shadow hands, shadow woven or boss healing. So if people want to use it, they can.

But sadly, I think void walk will be patched for other reasons in the future.

What I’m doing is simply guessing what Klei wants and providing suggestions regarding what I think they want. In this case, I think what they want is cheese management, which is to patch some really cheesy cheese, but keep the lesser cheeses.

Again, I’m totally fine with using cheeses as I use cheeses sometimes too.

You think I said those things, but I never did.

Just because I want something to be better doesn't mean I dislike it now.

Just because I think something is unbalanced doesn't mean I refuse to use it. On the contrary, I used Bee Queen maze cheese heavily before it was patched (that's why losing it forced me to come up with the new wall cross strategy).

I'm a cheese user. That's why I want all cheese to be balanced.

No, I quoted what you said. You said that you will gladly join a server that uses this cheese, but you do not want such a server to exist and you do not want there to be servers like this that you can gladly join.

Whatevers, you're saying what you're saying and such. 

[goatt]

1 hour ago, goodguythatguy said:

You said that you will gladly join a server that uses this cheese, but you do not want such a server to exist and you do not want there to be servers like this that you can gladly join.

Here is the exact words I said, if that's what you referred to: "If someone one invite me to use this cheese in a pub server, I'll gladly join. But now I only wanna talk about game balance. "

I said, if someone invites me to use the cheese in a pub server I've already joined, NOT if someone invites me to join a server. I'd gladly join the activity of using the cheese. How can someone invite me to fight a boss together if I'm not already in the game?

I've never mentioned anything about joining a server or despise any server that uses cheese. I've never displayed any adversary opinions about any server under this thread.

[Well-met]

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

a cheese that is absolutely impossible to do on accident, so you have to go out of your way to use it only if you really want to

if you patch a cheese people will just find another, this change benefits nobody

then fix the other too, genius

is there some hard limit for patching?

[Guille6785]

44 minutes ago, Well-met said:

then fix the other too, genius

is there some hard limit for patching?

and how does this make the game more enjoyable for anyone

[QuartzBeam]

Man, this thread has an awful lot of words in it for a post that once again boils down to OP wanting to control the way that other people play a non-competitive game.

[goodguythatguy]

16 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

and how does this make the game more enjoyable for anyone

I'm pretty sure it doesn't, this forum post is a grief and this person is using the cover of "Balance" to impose their preference on everyone else that plays the game. He's trying to eliminate something that can never effect gameplay at all, unless a player went out of their way to specifically make it happen intentionally. 

I might be wrong, but I don't trust. 



 

4 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

Man, this thread has an awful lot of words in it for a post that once again boils down to OP wanting to control the way that other people play a non-competitive game.

You kinda took the words right outta my mouth. Yoink!

[zaptrap]

If it was a single player game I'd say let the cheese stay, but since others can use the cheese in the same world as you, it also ends up also affecting you (whether positive or negative), so I kinda have a split opinion.

[Wonz]

On 5/13/2022 at 10:08 AM, goatt said:

To eliminate a cheese that would otherwise trivialize a boss.

Just don't cheese him lmao

[goatt]

2 hours ago, Wonz said:

Just don't cheese him lmao

I’m only guessing Klei’s pattern of cheese fixing, and concluded (guessed) this is a cheese they wanna fix, and posted a simple fix suggestion .

Personally, I don’t care if anyone cheese forever.

[Spino43]

3 hours ago, goatt said:

I’m only guessing Klei’s pattern of cheese fixing, and concluded (guessed) this is a cheese they wanna fix, and posted a simple fix suggestion .

Personally, I don’t care if anyone cheese forever.

If you don't care then why this suggestion post exists?

[goatt]

51 minutes ago, Spino43 said:

If you don't care then why this suggestion post exists?

Using cheese is other people's freedom. People play games just to have fun, why would I bother to stop them from having fun?

But I care about the game. Do I care about the game so much that I'm willing to stop people having fun? No. I still don't want to.

But this cheese is game breaking, can game breaking cheese stop people from having fun? Yes.

So now I have the choice to make the game I care about better (by improving overall balance), and also can make the game more fun by eliminating game breaking cheese and improve its balance, I would just do it.

To clarify why this cheese is game breaking. It usually takes lazy explorer, weather pain, purple amulet, good amount of good armor, bee queen crown, and lots of healing and sanity food, for a relatively seasoned player to beat this boss. But this cheese can spare them of all that, namely, lazy explorer, weather pain, purple amulet, good armor, bq crown, healings and sanity food.

This is broken further because by defeating this boss, you can get tons of other stuff for free, such as bone armor, tons of regenerated thulecites and gems, new Large Ornate Chest and more. This subsequently makes beating other boss much easier because of superior armors acquired thru this cheese.

That's why it's game breaking. That's why I post the fix.

Do I get upset if I see people use this cheese in front of my eye. Of course not, cuz that's your freedom and your fun. You can even install mods to cheese more, I don't care. I'm tired of getting this same comment.

I'm only posting to make the game better, not to kill cheeses or stop people from cheesing. If I unknowingly / accidentally / unintentionally stopped you from cheese in the process of improving a game, sorry, your gaming experience is expandable to me.

[Wonz]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

why would I bother to stop them from having fun

idk why would you? You made a post with an idea to how to stop them.

Define gamebreaking. You can just not cheese, game won't get better if it's gone. It will not get better for you and it will get worse for those won't don't like to fight and rather to cheese it.

[goatt]

11 minutes ago, Wonz said:

You can just not cheese, game won't get better if it's gone.

You can ask devs to stop patching cheese. I didn’t initiate it.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

On 5/13/2022 at 11:00 PM, Well-met said:

then fix the other too, genius

is there some hard limit for patching?

yes, time and by wasting time fixing things we get less content. if people prefer to be afk for 20min instead of enjoying the fight just **** them, i want content and new updates not patches fixing things that dont affect my gameplay.