Give Wolfgang a 'Work Together' Perk

[Mr.Tarunio]

I guess i'm making an underrated topic but compared to how reworks/character releases have always been, they were suppose to make all characters help each other.

Long example wall:
1. wigfrid can buff friends around her when she gets inspiration.
2. wanda can teleport with other friends at the cost of a purple gem.
3. winona does not need to be the one to fuel her machines.
4. willow always gave out extra bernies to insane friends and can give her lighter.
5. wortox heals and wormwood can make living logs combo.(not a rework but how characters are now.)
6. wes can make speed balloons and a life vest for the boat.
7. warly can give food buffs.

I really don't know what to suggest for wolfgang as comparing him to some of the reworks/character release that show example of solo playstyles that pop off (webber,wurt,walter and woodie). wolfgang just becomes the hold F and run guy. maybe 1 small suggestion, he can shout to scare enemy's like how beequeen screeches but then wigfrid already has that with startling soliloquy.

[Cheggf]

If Winona dealing damage is a team perk then Wolfgang dealing damage is a team perk.

[Ohan]

He adds two players worth of dmg to the team at the cost of 1 players equipment/maintenance. And he supplies this double damage without needing expensive/long winded setup like Warly or being wanda. And after the refresh he also no longer empties the teams fridge for his damage either. 

aside from his damage he also brings a bunch of generalist perks to the table that would otherwise be fulfilled by a dedicated extra player, which is a boon in smaller teams. Like harvesting resources (pseudo max/Woodie), carrying marbles fast (pseudo Walter), sailing fast (pseudo Woodie), etc. 

wanting an extremely explicit “co-op” perk tacked on every survivor is the new meme I feel. 

[Hornete]

11 minutes ago, Ohan said:

wanting an extremely explicit “co-op” perk tacked on every survivor is the new meme I feel. 

Yeaa, I'm not really a fan of sorta "forcing" co op perks in. I think the best way for co op perks to happen is the individual characters are designed in such a way that they have unique interactions with eachother that emerge in gameplay. For example, Wigfrids helmet and battle spear werent added for the sake of a co op perk, they existed with her originally in RoG, but placing her in a multiplayer environment allows her to share her gear. This wasnt specifically implemented, its just the way she was originally designed and the way the game was designed allowed this to naturally happen, if that makes sense. That, in my opinion, is the best way to implement a "co op perk", having them come naturally as a consequence of how the character is designed, rather than forcing one in for the sake of one, and I think Wolfgang does a pretty dandy job of interacting with others in multiplayer.

[Mike23Ua]

6 minutes ago, Hornete said:

Yeaa, I'm not really a fan of sorta "forcing" co op perks in. I think the best way for co op perks to happen is the individual characters are designed in such a way that they have unique interactions with eachother that emerge in gameplay. For example, Wigfrids helmet and battle spear werent added for the sake of a co op perk, they existed with her originally in RoG, but placing her in a multiplayer environment allows her to share her gear. This wasnt specifically implemented, its just the way she was originally designed and the way the game was designed allowed this to naturally happen, if that makes sense. That, in my opinion, is the best way to implement a "co op perk", having them come naturally as a consequence of how the character is designed, rather than forcing one in for the sake of one, and I think Wolfgang does a pretty dandy job of interacting with others in multiplayer.

I disagree, Wolfgang is a Circus strongman, who probably has experience in picking up his female colleagues and throwing them through the air.. similar to how rope trapeze acts sometimes used the strongman to throw and catch the girls on the rope trapeze.

I feel like it’s a colossally missed opportunity to do something fun with being able to Yeet teammates across gaps of water or caves or maybe even just Yeet Wigfrid with a Battle Spear for a crazy but risky damage boost.

I find it a bit odd that my favorite character (Wendy) has a better team based perk than most of the entire character roster.

But that’s just my opinion.. and maybe it’s because I don’t particularly find doing 2x damage or rowing a boat faster to be helpful team perks.

[Capybara007]

i mean as much fun as throwing your teammates like a plane to other places it just feels both forced and kinda useless, (or not useful because if i say useless i look bad)

not useful because the only great thing that could be its just throwing someone to the other side of the river/void

and forced because its such an specific action "the strongman" can perform that just like mentioned above, it would just be implemented for the sake of a team perk

[Cheggf]

Throwing teammates is a funny idea because you can throw them into groups of enemies. Strangers might not think it's as funny if you do it to them, though...

[oregu]

i was really expecting at least some sort of team perk because that seemed like it was added in every rework before, at least 1 character perk/specific items that every player can benefit off of. but wolf's rework is just a bunch of character specific items.
willow rework: bernie buff, can extinguish faster for base fires, fueling is more effective.
wes rework: OP
wigfrid rework: OP
wendy rework: just sisturn, but abby does more than enough to carry hound waves (also the abigail flower mechanic but removed)


if i wanted a perk that was solely based off solo gameplay, i'd play Don't Starve, not dst. the intentions to balance this character has become one of the more convoluted updates of DST so far. i expected something a lil more, i suppose.

[Cheggf]

11 minutes ago, oregu said:

i was really expecting at least some sort of team perk because that seemed like it was added in every rework before, at least 1 character perk/specific items that every player can benefit off of. but wolf's rework is just a bunch of character specific items.
willow rework: bernie buff, can extinguish faster for base fires, fueling is more effective.
wes rework: OP
wigfrid rework: OP
wendy rework: just sisturn, but abby does more than enough to carry hound waves


if i wanted a perk that was solely based off solo gameplay, i'd play Don't Starve, not dst. the intentions to balance this character has become one of the more convoluted updates of DST so far. i at least wanted this part done right.

Wolfgang specific items isn't a team perk. But Bernie, a Willow specific item, being stronger when near Willow is somehow a team perk? And Wolfgang clearing hound waves is greedy but Abigail doing it is teamwork?

You guys are really stretching to make up fake team perks just to pretend like Wolfgang is the odd one out. Willow got no "team perks". Wendy's "team perk" sucks and is inconsequential. Woodie got no "team perks" (if Wolf being a good gatherer isn't a team perk then Woodie's isn't either). Winona got no "team perks". Wormwood got no "team perks". Wurt got no "team perks". Walter got no "team perks". Webber got no "team perks".

The only characters who got perks that can explicitly affect teammates are Wigfrid, Wortox, Warly, Wes, and Wanda. That's it. By your guys' definition, where self buffs and gathering materials aren't team perks, only those 5 characters got any team perks and of those only 2 are reworks, the other 3 are new characters. Only 2 reworks added team play according to your strange definition of team play.

[oregu]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wolfgang specific items isn't a team perk. But Bernie, a Willow specific item, being stronger when near Willow is somehow a team perk? And Wolfgang clearing hound waves is greedy but Abigail doing it is teamwork?

You guys are really stretching to make up fake team perks just to pretend like Wolfgang is the odd one out. Willow got no "team perks". Wendy's "team perk" sucks and is inconsequential. Woodie got no "team perks" (if Wolf being a good gatherer isn't a team perk then Woodie's isn't either). Winona got no "team perks". Wormwood got no "team perks". Wurt got no "team perks". Walter got no "team perks". Webber got no "team perks".

You know who got perks that can explicitly affect teammates? Wigfrid, Wortox, Warly, Wes, and Wanda. That's it. By your guys' definition, where self buffs and gathering materials aren't team perks, only those 5 characters got any team perks and of those only 2 are reworks, the other 3 are new characters. Only 2 reworks added team play according to your strange definition of team play.

by bernie buff i meant like y'know, he has more hp and can be repaired? that kinda thing. also her lighter can be crafted any used by anyone, even if it's not that good. bernie can be used by anyone, he just doesn't turn big.
winona's catapults can mending tape can be used by anyone, wurt can let anyone trade with mk and befriend merms, walter has his tent, webber can make spider dens for ppl and 'healing glop' (thought i've never seen it that utilized before. you could probably use a spider hat and become a nurse spider shenanigans). worm bramble husk woodie's lucy turns into an axe which can turn a 1% one to an 100%. not a lot, and requires a lil time but it's something. i was really dissapointed in woodies update for that reason. but his idols can still be eaten by other players, and that has uhh.. some sort of use, i guess? duh it's a stretch but i can't make a stretch for wolfgang.

[Cheggf]

Just now, oregu said:

by bernie buff i meant like y'know, he has more hp and can be repaired?

How does that change anything? He still needs to be near Willow to do his reworked thing.

1 minute ago, oregu said:

also her lighter can be crafted any used by anyone, even if it's not that good

Wolfgang's muscles can be admired by anyone, because they are very good. And just like with the lighter, that was possible before the rework.

3 minutes ago, oregu said:

bernie can be used by anyone, he just doesn't turn big.

The rework didn't do that. It's also not nearly as helpful as, say, the team having a ton of logs because Wolfgang chops trees faster.

4 minutes ago, oregu said:

winona's catapults

I just said if damage is a team perk Wolfgang has a team perk.

The rest of the "team perks" you list fall into one of the same categories. Inconsequential, not team perks according to you, and/or were present before the rework. Even ignoring everything else Wolfgang does him chopping faster is way more helpful to the team than every single perk you listed combined.

[Capybara007]

7 minutes ago, oregu said:

webber can make spider dens for ppl and 'healing glop' (thought i've never seen it that utilized before. you could probably use a spider hat and become a nurse spider shenanigans).

i think you just had one relevant thing to say and then felt like saying whathever comes to mind for the other characters as a vague excuse, healing glop doesnt heals teammates

[oregu]

doesn't feel like you are getting the point, so i'll put it another way. wolfgang has the problem 'opposite' to winona; wolfgang has to be present in order for his perks to work. winona's perks can be used by anyone so she's a 'swap' character (because her specific perks are pretty negligible). that was her main issue. i think the main point of this thread is make a part of wolfgang that is more assessible to any character.

of course im no expert in game design, but i think it would be advisable if each character had a part that was fun to play as, and fun to play with. that's my main theory on why the most played characters are what they are.

[Mike23Ua]

People who say X doesn’t have a team perk probably doesn’t understand what a team perk is.. I’m sorry.

Here let me break it down for you: Willow although feared by most & banned because “ooo spooky lighter!” Has some of the best Team Perks to exist within the game.

Bernie Dolls can be given to other players, those players can put those dolls on the ground and they will animate to life dancing to distract shadows when that player is low on sanity, is it an OP super amazing team perk? No.. but it’s still a team perk.

That’s not all Willow can do, she also can craft and give to other players lighters, lighters last 10x as long as a standard torch, so they’re great for early game play or when you just want to save resources on torches/lanterns.

Next up we have Wendy, which *Gasp* her team perk is to have her sisters ghost apply a dpetal buff onto enemies Abby attacks, which in turn: increases the damage anyone attacking with Abigail can do (yes this even works to boost Wolfgang’s 2x Damage)

What about cute fish girl Florp Wurt? Wurt has a strong grip perk built in so tools won’t slip out of her hand, she also suffers no negative penalties when drowning in rain- which leaves the Eyebrella to be used by someone who actually needs it.. 

Team Perks do exist… it’s just Wolfgang doesn’t have any to share with others- unless you count moving statues and rowing boats faster.

[Capybara007]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

People who say X doesn’t have a team perk probably doesn’t understand what a team perk is.. I’m sorry.

You are not a game design master either so idk where are you going with this statement

[Owlrust]

Would be pretty cool if he could throw other players across gaps or distances while mighty, with their permission of course.

[Mike23Ua]

38 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

You are not a game design master either so idk where are you going with this statement

You don’t have to be a game design master to have spent your entire lifetime playing coop video games with your family knowing exactly what a team perk is and isn’t.

Borderlands, Smite, Apex Legends, Ghostbusters, X-men, Lego Harry Potter, Insert any Tom Clancy franchise here, injustice & Injustice 2 mobile, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 & 3 (yeah I’m going old school) Resident Evil 5, Dungeon Defenders 2, For Honor, Rocket Arena, Rogue Company, Sniper Elite, Black Desert, DC Universe Online, Minion Masters, Spellbreak, Army of Two, Lara Croft and the temple of Osiris, 
My point is I have a life time of experience with what works and what doesn’t work in a coop game/ cooperative PvP game.

And currently- Wolfgang’s team perks are trash.

Id like for him to be able to throw team mates across gaps of land There’s a free game on Xbox Live called Knockout Arena: This is a game where players will jump into another players hands in a ball and you throw them at other players like a game of human dodgeball.

similarly: many cartoons I watched growing up namely Looney Tunes or Space Jam used this same concept of throwing other cartoon characters that ball up into a throwable ball.

Wolfgang being a circus performing strongman makes me think of things like throwing other circus workers and using Trapeze trampolines 

Technically it would just be a Team based version of Wortox soul hops across gaps, where Wolfgang activates a throwing pose and the other player can view where they’ll be thrown to before accepting to be thrown- Similar to how you can stand by a wall in a Tom Clancy game and get into a boost me upward pose to lift your team mate up to an otherwise unreachable higher location before they then perform their own animation of reaching downward to pull you up the ledge with them.

This is Team Work.

Now as far as how it would work for DST I would like for Wolfgang to be able to throw a one time use portable trampoline onto the other side of a gap, before tossing his team mate onto this “Human Bullet” landing pad & the player can explore this side of the land before returning to the landing pad and bouncing off of it (Aka Apex Legends Octane Ability) to get back across to the other side Wolfgang threw them from.

This solves several questions about the feature: One- How do you prevent Wolfgang’s from throwing their teammate into a group of enemies they didn’t want to be thrown into? Answer: The landing pad shows EXACTLY where they’re going to land.. and they can’t be thrown until they interact with the posing Wolfgang to accept being thrown.

2- How do you prevent Wolfgang from throwing the player into an area and then going off to do his own thing leaving the player stranded? Answer: The same launching pad that he threw them across the gap on once they are done exploring can be used to “bounce” back across the trampoline then collapse and perishes.

3- Okay but why add this ability when most players just abuse 100 boat kits? Answer: Good Question… But I’m pretty sure if exploiting boat kits didn’t make Wortox Soul Hops across gaps less special, they won’t make a FUN perk on Wolfgang less useful either.

I personally would really love for Wolfgang to get atleast ONE fun team based perk & for me, Just doing 2 x damage. Isn’t special enough.

[oregu]

about the wolfgang throwing thing, there's already boats, but if trampolines were cheaper than boats, i think it would be cool. in caves, i guess circus trampolines for a legit way to go across the void would be a nice addition. perhaps wolfgang would be special to the perk because when he's mighty he can go a further distance on a trampoline, and throw people farther than they would go normally (some sort of niche easy atrium access)?

also taken down and deployable by anyone, like walter's tent.

[Mike23Ua]

29 minutes ago, oregu said:

about the wolfgang throwing thing, there's already boats, but if trampolines were cheaper than boats, i think it would be cool. in caves, i guess circus trampolines for a legit way to go across the void would be a nice addition. perhaps wolfgang would be special to the perk because when he's mighty he can go a further distance on a trampoline, and throw people farther than they would go normally (some sort of niche easy atrium access)?

also taken down and deployable by anyone, like walter's tent.

I was thinking more of it being a passive ability that doesn’t require resources as sort of just a built in thing he can do while being Mighty.. perhaps with a Cooldown like a Wanda Clock.

Another unique team based idea I had was to let Wolfgang spawn with a Backpack already equipped, only there’s a catch- He can’t access it at all and only other players can store and retrieve items from this pack, basically What the character Kevin Heart plays in the Jumanji movies does where he can retrieve items out the backpack to help The Rock but Rock can’t get his own items out the backpack.

Basically other players can store things in Wolfgang’s Built in Backpack and Retrieve them by being close enough to Wolfgang.

(on Xbox you have to be within spear slapping distance to recall Abigail into her Flower so pretty much the same setup as Summon/Recall Abigail)

Wolfgang could maybe have slower Might drain loss when lugging around other players equipment for them.. and to prevent Abuse of this mechanic it should probably be limited to just Armor, Helmets, Weapons or labor tools.

just something FUN that pushes Wolfgang into being more of a Team Player..

[Dextops]

3 hours ago, Ohan said:

He adds two players worth of dmg to the team at the cost of 1 players equipment/maintenance. And he supplies this double damage without needing expensive/long winded setup like Warly or being wanda. And after the refresh he also no longer empties the teams fridge for his damage either. 

aside from his damage he also brings a bunch of generalist perks to the table that would otherwise be fulfilled by a dedicated extra player, which is a boon in smaller teams. Like harvesting resources (pseudo max/Woodie), carrying marbles fast (pseudo Walter), sailing fast (pseudo Woodie), etc. 

wanting an extremely explicit “co-op” perk tacked on every survivor is the new meme I feel. 

i strongly disagree with your first point since all bosses already melt in a multiplayer aspect wolfgang saving 4 seconds is barely anything worth mentioning. and your second point doesn't make sense because this is in a team and those dedicated extra players do it a lot better than anything wolfgang could do so it isn't worth wasting a character choice on him instead of going for the dedicated character 

[oregu]

3 hours ago, Ohan said:

wanting an extremely explicit “co-op” perk tacked on every survivor is the new meme I feel. 

co-op perks are relevant because the game is intended to be played with other people. yes, he can do stuff to help team slightly more but it's neglible to other strategies (beefalo, bearger, and sail). there's nothing wrong with having them if it enhances the experience... i dont get why ppl are ok with just having somebody who is basically two wilsons lmao. good character design in a co-op is about synergy and all that

[maradyne]

I've wanted the ability to carry/throw teammates forever, so I'll back any chance of getting that into the game.

Yes please.

[dubious little]

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You don’t have to be a game design master to have spent your entire lifetime playing coop video games with your family knowing exactly what a team perk is and isn’t.

Please don't take offense but you're the same person who wanted Beefalo to be required for moving the pieces to give Wolfgang another central perk, which is 15-20 days of forced investment or switching off to a different character which is the same issues Winona suffers already, which I wouldn't call Winona's issue good game design. You don't know what you're doing anymore than anyone else in these reply threads, even Klei themselves has fumbled when it comes to game design (like Wolfgangs og rework). Don't get me wrong, I like hearing your ideas, but you can be very hit or miss, so I just don't think you should claim that you know what you're doing when it comes to character design, we're all merely suggesting things and discussing what we'd like to see change about the game y'know.

[PolRec]

13 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

unless you count moving statues and rowing boats faster.

You say this but you count Wurt's ability to leave eyebrella for others a team perk ? Well could I say Wolfgang's ability to leave more fighting resources ( weapons, healings, armors) for others is also a team perk ?

[dubious little]

11 hours ago, oregu said:

co-op perks are relevant because the game is intended to be played with other people. yes, he can do stuff to help team slightly more but it's neglible to other strategies (beefalo, bearger, and sail). there's nothing wrong with having them if it enhances the experience... i dont get why ppl are ok with just having somebody who is basically two wilsons lmao. good character design in a co-op is about synergy and all that

 

15 hours ago, Ohan said:

He adds two players worth of dmg to the team at the cost of 1 players equipment/maintenance. And he supplies this double damage without needing expensive/long winded setup like Warly or being wanda. And after the refresh he also no longer empties the teams fridge for his damage either. 

aside from his damage he also brings a bunch of generalist perks to the table that would otherwise be fulfilled by a dedicated extra player, which is a boon in smaller teams. Like harvesting resources (pseudo max/Woodie), carrying marbles fast (pseudo Walter), sailing fast (pseudo Woodie), etc. 

I still feel like all of this is relevant. If you're in the ruins, Wolfgang will be super useful at mining, hammering and killing clockworks. Killing bosses faster is very useful, not everyone plays with 6 people, I often play with 2 or 1 person, and from my experience having Wolf rushing bosses like Dfly was very useful, there are plenty of times he could solo them quickly while I was doing something like rushing lunar islands (as I was Wurt). Since Wolf can stay mighty a majority of the time, having passive 2x damage is useful outside of just bosses, it's great for hunts, it's great for killing those clockworks on the surface, it's great for sudden treeguards, it's great for killing mactusks, etc etc, which may not be the most useful thing in the world but neither is Willow giving you a worse lantern and a temporary nightmare creature sponge which is pretty much only useful for new players. Being able to carry a piggyback allows Wolf to store more things on the go if you need someone to hold something (a similar to use to say someone having a chester or Walter having Woby, which yes these are tied to specific characters/eyebone can only be carried by one person, but if you have good teamwork then extra space is extra space). Being able to mine, chop, hammer, row, etc faster is useful, not every multiplayer world has someone investing into a Beefalo, not everyone wants to invest into boats and not every multiplayer world lasts till 2nd autumn. Yous don't even seem to care if the co-op perk is useful, Wes was validated yet the balloons become obsolete way quicker than any of Wolfgangs perks do, I'd rather have a Wolfgang on my team than Willow yet she was validated, like I just don't really get it. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I just don't understand any of this logic or reasons, I could even get behind an additional co-op perk but it really feels like reasons were cherry picked to make Wolfgang look bad. Not every character needs to be super co-op, Woodie imo is super useful (helps you find important locations like ruins or lunar islands as well as explores the map quickly, kills hordes and gathers mass amounts of resources) which covers a lot of general aspects of the game, yet Wendy who is better at killing hordes and gives you an attack buff (which again fighting perks were called pretty useless) is called useful. I think both characters are great btw.