crafting menu auto close?

[Yuuko]

idk if other people experience this or not - but I'd like if the crafting menu auto-closed when I click off of it.  Like I might click away to move, or juggle inventory or something.  Currently the crafting menu stays open when I do this.  I think it would be very convenient if it closed when I clicked off of it instead.

[-Variant]

PLEASE! This! I'm warming up to it, but that is my biggest complaint so far!

I always clicked off the old menu to close it and not being able to is so bizarre! 

[oregu]

i liked being able to mouse off the crafting menu to close it quickly, actually.  i think what's more bothersome is that you can't really do any task while crafting tab is open (like you cant work w/spacebar while the menu is open) because of it. i wish more UIs actually incorporated this 'mouse gesturing' thing.

[Juny Pear]

THAT IS WHAT WAS OFF
I couldnt quite put my finger on it but now it makes sense!

 

[Milordo]

7 hours ago, oregu said:

i liked being able to mouse off the crafting menu to close it quickly, actually.  i think what's more bothersome is that you can't really do any task while crafting tab is open (like you cant work w/spacebar while the menu is open) because of it. i wish more UIs actually incorporated this 'mouse gesturing' thing.

Then it's simple. Just make it an option in the menu. A win win scenario 

[lionking102]

Right now this makes of course totally sense. But they will add that you can perform actions while the menu is open and I'm not sure if I want my menu to close when i cook somethink on an campfire (just an example). 

There is also a hotkey to open/close it which works much better for me than clicking the icon. 

[Mike23Ua]

You mean something you can open/close like the weapon wheel I keep begging for right? Part of the reason that is the most commonly used UI Interface in console games: Is because it doesn’t interrupt your immersion within the game, and only pops up when You hold in the button to bring it up, long enough to select what you need and when the button is let go of: The menu goes away again so as to not disrupt your gameplay. Seriously I was reading about it the other night just because I was curious WHY it was used in most console video games, if you want you can read that for yourself here in the spoiler:

Spoiler

https://uxdesign.cc/the-evolution-of-accessibility-weapons-wheel-f8fed0fed78e

The funny part about this is that over on the Xbox version of DST there already IS a wheel that is like this: but it’s Used for doing EMOTES.

Sometimes the always on screen information (such as the backpack inventory in bottom half of my screen) covers up and hides important stuff in the game world itself- Such as for example if you need to sail a boat in a DOWNWARDS angle- the Inventory at the bottom of your screen will cover up and Hide Cookie cutters underneath it, making for one very bad experience when a swarm of them you couldn’t see behind the backpack inventory all suddenly board your vessel.

Being able to make these things invisible until you NEED them would allow you to not be jumped by the games mobs & hazards.

I haven’t gotten to play with the new Beta UI, but from watching people play around with it in beta streams, it doesn’t look like a QoL improvement to me.

Since console players can’t just click their mouse somewhere off screen to immediately close the menu (like OP is suggesting..) then it needs to be done by having a dedicated button prompt to Open/Close it… Right?

Like Holding LT can open the Menu and B could close it- or something

All that I do know for a fact is that the people who use a console controller are saying the new UI is a Nightmare to use with it.

And the Devs are saying there’s a lot more work they still have to do with Controller support as it’s nowhere near finished.

Just trying to hopefully give helpful input so this works well for both PC & Console players when it’s finalized

 

[. . .]

Ye, I made the same suggestion a few days ago.

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You mean something you can open/close like the weapon wheel I keep begging for right? Part of the reason that is the most commonly used UI Interface in console games: Is because it doesn’t interrupt your immersion within the game, and only pops up when You hold in the button to bring it up, long enough to select what you need and when the button is let go of: The menu goes away again so as to not disrupt your gameplay. Seriously I was reading about it the other night just because I was curious WHY it was used in most console video games, if you want you can read that for yourself here in the spoiler:

The main reasons its used for console games is an analog stick has a multitude of degrees it can be used to select for.  For a mouse they can be horrible, depending on the game and implementation.  For an FPS game where the screen follows your mouse, always keeping your mouse at the center a wheel selection can be good but in an adventure game where you'll move your mouse to select other parts of the screen a wheel can be disastrous and frustrating.  When you're mouse is already at the top right quadrant of the screen and you open a wheel it will zip your mouse to the center to select from the wheel, but your mouse is PHYSICALLY in the top right quadrant still and may not physically move enough to select from a wheel comfortably.  It can be quite disorienting.

For a mouse it would be much better to have options on a wheel scroll.  You can scroll through rapidly to the selection you want in a single movement, and use the mouse wheel notches to know how far you've scrolled.  Its quite intuitive and easy to use.  You don't see it as often anymore because most action games are made for console and ported to pc, its pretty obvious when these games have second hand controls lol

Although I think neither a mouse wheel scroll or a weapons wheel wouldn't work for dst crafting for the same reasons.  There are too many options.  There are more crafting options than there are comfortable divisions.  I find that without the game slowing during selection, even 8 options on a wheel can be a bit cumbersome.  We've got more than 8 main crafting tabs.

I agree the beta crafting tab doesn't look like its doing any favors to console, and perhaps there is a way to work out a wheel selector that works.  I'm not against the idea, just doubtful.

I think the most important things on console is that you can select a craft without losing control of your character, and that specific things you might need to craft in a pinch like a weapon / armor during combat, torch / light source, weather gear etc are SUPER easy to get to.  Honestly the system can be more clunky when you're sitting in base and that's fine, but the "must craft now" items need to be accessible without taking away control of your character.

Maybe if the hotlinks which in the beta are available on the left side of the screen where optionally available in a wheel, so you could put your high priority crafts there while the full menu can be opened from the side.

[Mike23Ua]

10 hours ago, Shosuko said:

The main reasons its used for console games is an analog stick

Sorry for the late reply back on this but.. If PC version had a Weapon Wheel (I think the proper term used in UI design is Pie Wheel or whatever..) Does it have to use the mouse at all?

I haven’t played on a PC in a long time so forgive me for my lack of knowledge but what if a Weapon wheel utilized the Keyboard instead of the mouse? Something like press _ letter or number to open/close the menu: press say for example- G on Key board opens the wheel, G Also closes it but T, Y, H, V & F are your fast select slots on your wheel.

Or K opens/closes while I, O, L, M, J are used as fast select slots.

Like I said, forgive my lack of knowledge in PC gaming I haven’t played on PC since Baldurs Gate 2.

The reason I personally want a Weapon Wheel will become quickly realized to anyone who has tried playing DST using an Xbox Controller, swapping between a Walking Stick, A Hambat, an Axe or a Torch/Lantern will get one of those items misplaced within your inventory.

I realize that DST is Meant to be played by being able to quickly swap between a weapon and a walking cane to kite boss attacks (hence why few Xbox players play boss fights.. and even fewer actually live through them.) But… Swapping between more than two items is a PAIN- it can be done… Sure, But when an action adventure survival game like Ark Survival Evolved or Conan Exiles shows how much FASTER you could be able to equip/Unequip items.

for Ark you can assign several items to Button Prompts to be able to quickly choose/swap between as shown here:

As you can see, Left, Right, Up, Down on the D-pad swaps to whatever is in your Left hand side of the inventory that’s assigned to pressing that Button, Meanwhile Holding in LB Allows you to access X, Y, B, A and an ADDITIONAL Left & Right D-pad press.

When I compare DST to Conan and ARK it is because Both of those games are fast paced survival crafting games where being able to quickly swap between items in your inventory is the difference between Life & Death.

And with DST: in its CURRENT form (Im not in Beta so I’m judging all the Analog stick scrolling I already do) It’s just not as fast as it SHOULD Be.

And that’s what I’m hoping Klei will touch up before this months QoL is pushed public.

[SomebodyRandom]

10 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Sorry for the late reply back on this but.. If PC version had a Weapon Wheel (I think the proper term used in UI design is Pie Wheel or whatever..) Does it have to use the mouse at all?

I haven’t played on a PC in a long time so forgive me for my lack of knowledge but what if a Weapon wheel utilized the Keyboard instead of the mouse? Something like press _ letter or number to open/close the menu: press say for example- G on Key board opens the wheel, G Also closes it but T, Y, H, V & F are your fast select slots on your wheel.

Or K opens/closes while I, O, L, M, J are used as fast select slots

Most wheels I see have support for both keyboard and mouse by either using numbers or arrow keys but it's far less convenient than using Mouse.

I can't be bothered to read the paragraph Shosuko said so I'm not arguing if wheel good.

[Yuuko]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Sorry for the late reply back on this but.. If PC version had a Weapon Wheel (I think the proper term used in UI design is Pie Wheel or whatever..) Does it have to use the mouse at all?

I haven’t played on a PC in a long time so forgive me for my lack of knowledge but what if a Weapon wheel utilized the Keyboard instead of the mouse? Something like press _ letter or number to open/close the menu: press say for example- G on Key board opens the wheel, G Also closes it but T, Y, H, V & F are your fast select slots on your wheel.

Or K opens/closes while I, O, L, M, J are used as fast select slots.

The thing is - console (controllers) need a wheel because they lack the number of inputs needed to function for how many things a game wants you to be able to control.  The wheel is a great ui mechanic to resolve this but it kb/m just doesn't need it really...  With a limited number of inputs the analogue stick provides a great opportunity to give you 8-10 options using 1 button and the stick - AND the stick can still be used for other functions when the menu isn't in focus.

Like league of legends you use the mouse for movement / aiming, and you use 123456qwerasdfcv all for different abilities.  These are all accessible quickly, intuitively, and in quick succession from 1 hand at rest.  In DST we use asdw and mouse clicks for movement which is great depending on how you are wanting to move.  We can also use 123456 to access the respective inventory slots.  f is a hotkey for attacking, ctrl+f is force attack, both very easy inputs.

A wheel would be a step back for a kb which can already present so many options without needing to bring up a ui, trade controls, etc.

I don't think it would be bad to provide a wheel for controller support.  They could go this way for crafting and inventory management.  I really don't see it bringing anything to help for kb/m though.

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Something like press _ letter or number to open/close the menu: press say for example- G on Key board opens the wheel, G Also closes it but T, Y, H, V & F are your fast select slots on your wheel.

Or K opens/closes while I, O, L, M, J are used as fast select slots.

Why have the wheel at all? At that point TYHVF are already the fast select slots without needing another key to bring the wheel up. In games with wheels to select weapons kbm already does exactly what you described by pressing the number keys without needing a pointless wheel.

Wheels are just bad for kbm and only used on console because they have very few buttons and analog sticks which work well with wheels.

[maradyne]

On 3/6/2022 at 2:09 AM, Shosuko said:

When you're mouse is already at the top right quadrant of the screen and you open a wheel it will zip your mouse to the center to select from the wheel, but your mouse is PHYSICALLY in the top right quadrant still and may not physically move enough to select from a wheel comfortably.

Just to add; it's totally possible to implement a wheel without the zip.

The Gesture Wheel mod actually has an option for spawning the wheel centered on where your mouse currently is; feels great, too.

[Yuuko]

16 hours ago, maradyne said:

Just to add; it's totally possible to implement a wheel without the zip.

The Gesture Wheel mod actually has an option for spawning the wheel centered on where your mouse currently is; feels great, too.

I don't agree that it feels great that way either.  The only radial menus I've used that feel good working that way are simple, like 4 options, and very small.