Remove the table and lureplant exploit

[Cloakingsumo198]

Give enraged klaus a cool drop like misery toad.

[Yuuko]

4 hours ago, Well-met said:

I think it does affect players capable of beating every boss legitimately.

x to doubt lol  The only way it would hinder a player from beating the boss "legitimately" is if they naturally occurred.  If these grew near Klaus configured in a way that blocked him off it would hinder you from beating him how you wish.  That isn't the case.  Even if one randomly spawned near him, one wouldn't effect the fight - and you could clear it before hand easily.

When you say 

2 hours ago, Well-met said:

If I can spare myself the torment of getting stunlocked to limbo by beeguards and lavaes for free then it would be very stupid to pass the offer up if I have no furnace or wrap paper yet.

what you illustrate is a will problem, not a technical one.  If you can't bring yourself to fight how you wish "because x is also an option" then you need to just break out of that meta, its in your head.  Play how you feel you should!

I've fought klaus numerous times, in numerous ways.  I've lured the table to him, blocking him off with his sack and table.  I've used lureplants after spring b/c they're easier to set up than table.  I've used walls and signs to block the deer off so they can't cast through the fight.  I've jumped on a boat and used a slingshot and catapults to take him out.  I've also fought him using a hambat, some football helmets and perogies fighting through the spells.  Usually I use a walking cane and road together to help get through his second form easier, but sometimes I don't just for the challenge lol (I'm bad at dodging his leap attack)  Another cool tactic is to use a fire / ice staff on the deer to prevent casting but I've not done that personally...

All these options and YOU decide which you choose.  No one is stopping you.  Even when Mike says

32 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The problem with letting cheese exist in a multiplayer game is that it is in fact: MULTIPLAYER so therefore- Yes what other people do can and will often effect other peoples enjoyment of the game.

I have yet to have a negative experience because I wanted to fight a boss differently then another player - except that they might not be familiar with the tactic and we get party wiped lol  although that was also very fun, helped them explore the game in a new way, and we moved on.

If you are seriously facing a situation where everyone flames you for playing the game the way you want...  consider a few things.

If you are receiving such hostility, are you projecting it?  The common adage "it takes two to tango" comes to mind...  Perhaps you are setting a bad tone by disrespecting how they would approach the boss.  If its their world it is respectful to follow their plans.  Often considerations are such as always giving the host priority loot, and letting them build structures configured how they want.  Asking permission before tackling certain bosses / tasks is nice too.

Is it your world?  If you're on your own world you can decide who is kicked or banned, and enforce your own style of play.  You could also develop some friendships with people who also enjoy your style of play.  I know you play on xbox, and I acknowledge console version has problems...  Yet I've seen successful console worlds where all bosses were cleared and I don't hear much complaint from them (not nearly as much as from myself lol)

[Nattou1214]

Quote

The problem with letting cheese exist in a multiplayer game is that it is in fact: MULTIPLAYER so therefore- Yes what other people do can and will often effect other peoples enjoyment of the game.

the FACT is, is that DST is a GAME, it's the server that CAN be MULTIPLAYER or NOT

this isn't an MMORPG/FPS where people have NO choice but to play with/against people who use exploits

you can set the number of players on your server for a reason, it is NOT strictly multiplayer; you don't NEED other people to progress

you can CHOOSE to play with people that use the "cheese" or not

i swear some of these comments just reek of elitists/gatekeepers.

its like complaining in minecraft about people using redstone to make crazy/op mob farms 'cause it's not the elitist way of going through all the trouble of making the perfect enchanted gear and brewing all the potions just to kill hordes of mobs every night for their drops 

[Cheggf]

I don't think blocking Klaus with lureplants is very disruptive to multiplayer. It requires it to be at least the second Winter and if you want to fight Klaus normally he's gonna spawn in Winter so you can just be ready and fight him at the start of Winter. The only cheese off the top of my head that could actually be disruptive to multiplayer is Wendy's BQ boat cheese since she can start the fight before anyone else with that method, but I don't really see people do it on public servers.

[mima_]

lolol u want klei remove cheese ? why ? 
remove fun of killing bosses u said ? 

do u ever feel the fun of any new strat meta that one day you randomly think turn out to be a great working meta ? uhh maybe not ? i cant blame you cus each person have their own way to achieving "fun" , 

i have one friend who love to cook and feed every player in the game, but killing boss , not so much ...
i have one friend that love sailing and catch rare fishes  but killing boss , not so much ...
i have that one friend that love gathering resources and making base look epic ..
do they need kill the bosses ? yes.. cus they need the loot but ... do they all enjoy ? nope maybe some but not all of em ..
the cheese exist not all because they wanna easy way out but just relieve them from repetitive fight, giving same chance for other player to get cool loot..

or does the idea of people get same cool loot as yours sound so icky for you ? just because they use cheese ? that why the cool loot you have try hard using so many battle helm and pierogi seem like a normal item cus everybody can get them with cheese? since this problem is avoidable by not doing it ..  or maybe "YOU IRRITATED SEEING OTHER PEOPLE HAVE THEIR WAY TO GET BOSS LOOT BUT YOU STILL COOK PIEROGI AND PREPARE FOR FIGHT" KEKW 
if its so i recommend you to host your own server and name it "dont cheese boss.. this is lactose-free server" 
if you just join random public server you have no way to tell them "ew cheese klaus, can u be git gud at game" while having backpack full of armor and a stack of pierogi bitterly cus other people kill it with boat and sling shot 2 min after klaus spawn 
 

27 minutes ago, Nattou1214 said:

i swear some of these comments just reek of elitists/gatekeepers.

cant be more agree with this .. 

[Maxposting]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

interfering with my enjoyment of the game (a reportable offense on Xbox live)

me omw to play don't starve together, a popular indie game by the popular indie game developer klei entertainment, only to get banned by playing the game via a cheese

[shiguld]

Lending another perspective to this discussion, i think Klei's inaction in remedying this has nothing to do with whether they endorse cheese methods or not.

Its more likely to do with the fix itself being very disruptive and unpredictable. The cheese seems to be a by-product of the collision mechanics of mobs. The direct fix method would likely result in a lot of unintended consequences, presumably like mobs spawning inside things (hound wave hound spawning stuck inside a pond, walking through antlion sandcastles etc). This would also break a lot of other farms like moonstone vargs.

Alternative fix methods would be something like changing the pathfinding algorithm for mobs, which would require a lot of effort and testing.

If it wasnt for this complexity, imo it's likely this would get patched because it is indeed a bug

[ALCRD]

12 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Give enraged klaus a cool drop like misery toad.

Huh.. Misery has "cool drops" ? 

[MondayNight]

From my knowledge KLei proud themselves over the "emergent game-play" specific to their games (DS & DST) that also incorporates "cheese/exploits" like pathfinder quirks (used in making various farms, namely Varg, Pig, Spider, Snails, etc ones). Asking for the removal of all these "cheese/exploits" would eliminate pretty much all types of "smart farms" from DS/T and mentioned emergent play, leaving players with one-and-only way of tackling game challenges: fight (kite and/or tank with a weapon in hand, most-likely a melee approach and that's it). I for one, based on mine and others observed play-styles over too many game hours irl (personal but mostly dedicated pubs), believe such an approach would limit drastically the number of hours players allocate to DS/T before boredom from repetition sets in and inherent game abandonment occurs.

 

Also Enraged Klaus is not supposed to be fought as-is, merely a punishment for killing his deers and player should withdraw when such event occurs to de-spawn it, and repeat fight. It marks a failure. In general. One can still tackle Enraged Klaus if one so wishes for, but my no means atm is a desired/default outcome - since there's no incentive aka special loot for doing so.

[ALCRD]

1 minute ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

yes.

Like? I never killed Misery but on wiki only difference is the Napsack recipe .. which sounds pretty useless waste of materials.

[MondayNight]

4 hours ago, ALCRD said:

Like? I never killed Misery but on wiki only different is the Napsack recipe .. which sounds pretty useless waste of materials.

You can duplicate Shroom Skin with said NapSack via Deconstruction Staff plus NapSack has its uses, certainly, when multiplied like this as well. In general Misery Toad take-down has a clear goal late-game: shroom skin multiplication.

[ALCRD]

Just now, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

You can duplicate Shroom Skin with said Napsack via Deconstruction Staff plus Napsack has its uses clearly when multiplied like this as well.

Oh didn't know it can be used to dupe the skin.

[MondayNight]

Just now, ALCRD said:

Oh didn't know it can be used to dupe the skin.

Is same process as the DF's Scales multiplication via Scaled Floor & Decon Staff too.

[Cloakingsumo198]

Make enraged klaus give new loot or more loot so he is just like misery toad.  A challenge for more and "better" loot. 

So the fight feels better also remove the damage reduction he receives or some new mechanics to offset the loss of his deers.

For all the people that want enraged klaus as a "punishment" for failing to keep the deer alive and so that player's won't just critically cripple klaus before enraging him.

Make him full heal upon enraging so the only way to get rewarded is for killing the deer before even attacking him.

[Capybara007]

eklaus unlike misery toad is not supposed to be fough.

its like making adventure mode maxwell drop something, its nonsensical, the devs decided to make the klaus fight as it is, just like they wanted the player to see the checkmate ending as it is, instead of having to kill maxwell

[Picklesaurus]

I don't cheese normal Klaus, I enjoy the fight. I don't cheese boss fights in geral - aside from old AG, I enjoy interacting with their mechanics, but it's fine if others choose to cheese them, it's their game, it's their enjoyment. That said, if enraged Klaus gave new loot or more loot... I'd enrage and cheese him instead, unless the new item is bad. I'm fine with the existance of cheese and others cheesing, but it seems weird to me to make a bossfight that would encourage it to that degree.

[jan Mele]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

eklaus unlike misery toad is not supposed to be fough.

its like making adventure mode maxwell drop something, its nonsensical, the devs decided to make the klaus fight as it is, just like they wanted the player to see the checkmate ending as it is, instead of having to kill maxwell

Maxwell dropping something would be kinda funny though

[Mantispidae]

Enraged Klaus doesn't need cool new drops or exclusives, the whole point of the design is that you don't need to kill the deer, and you shouldn't, because you gain nothing from it ultimately other than a harder fight.

The concept of "Don't kill the minion" bosses have existed forever, and Klaus is one of those. The only one that immediately comes to mind is the swine king from darkest dungeon- where killing the little buffing minion pig makes the fight a lot harder and much more likely to kill you. The actual challenge comes from the fact that there are annoying minions you can not kill and simply have to deal with. It may not be a mechanic you like but its a very common type of fight.

Providing a reward for doing what is, effectively, the fight wrong makes it no longer the wrong way to go about the fight, and encourages the player to go against the mechanic because they ultimately get more payoff. It means you now should do Klaus enraged if you can, because you get a reward. Enraged Klaus as is is supposed to be a fail state, and it's not even one that's hard to avoid activating because unless you are doing the fight with mobs like pigs its very easy to avoid killing the deer. 

7 hours ago, shiguld said:

Its more likely to do with the fix itself being very disruptive and unpredictable. The cheese seems to be a by-product of the collision mechanics of mobs. The direct fix method would likely result in a lot of unintended consequences

This is a big thing even with relatively simple bugs! Really, even things that look like they should be easy fixes can sometimes break stuff down the line, so any sort of fixes need a lot of testing. And depending on what is actually going wrong here (collision or whatever else) a proper fix could get things goofy down the line. If they do fix it, good for them- people will always find more cheese. If not, no big deal really.

[Mike23Ua]

7 hours ago, Mantispidae said:

Really, even things that look like they should be easy fixes can sometimes break stuff down the line, so any sort of fixes need a lot of testing. And depending on what is actually going wrong here (collision or whatever else) a proper fix could get things goofy down the line. If they do fix it, good for them- people will always find more cheese. If not, no big deal really.

I don’t think it would be too hard for large enemies to be able to perform a slash attack that will break, destroy, or remove obstacles in its path.. 

Deerclops wrecks everything within His/Her sight.. Dragonfly can smash walls with her Stomp, so to pin something as large as Klaus behind two Lureplants or an End table: Rather you like it or not- Is in fact Exploiting “Cheese”

Now when “I” the Player hit a Lureplant enough times that Lureplant dies and drops into a Meatbulb to pick up and replant, So one simple swipe.. this plants out of Klaus path.. 

[Yuuko]

On 3/4/2022 at 7:06 PM, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t think it would be too hard for large enemies to be able to perform a slash attack that will break, destroy, or remove obstacles in its path.. 

Deerclops wrecks everything within His/Her sight.. Dragonfly can smash walls with her Stomp, so to pin something as large as Klaus behind two Lureplants or an End table: Rather you like it or not- Is in fact Exploiting “Cheese”

Is it a bug / unintended though?  b/c here is the thing...  There are already bosses that destroy lureplants...

IF there are bosses that destroy lureplants, and some bosses don't - is it actually unintentional?  Is it cheese?  Or is it just understanding and exploiting interactions?

Just like the walls thing - there are mobs who attack them, fly over them, destruct them instantly, and yet there are mobs that don't.  The occurrence of everything that CAN do these things indicates the intention that a thing that doesn't... isn't supposed to...

DST is not a combat simulator.  This isn't dark souls, apex arena, or smite.  This isn't even terraria.  DST is a game where knowledge is power.  There are many interactions in this game, some obvious some not.  One interaction is that Klaus will not attack or crush a lure plant.  Another interaction is that lureplants have a higher priority on smolder, so that if one is on screen nothing else will smolder... even if that lureplant *can't* smolder such as if it were underneath an above average tree.

Literally blocking Klaus with lureplants is the same as using a lureplant to eliminate smolder.  You're using an interaction in the game.  This isn't even a bug or glitch b/c again - we have bosses that can do these things people keep suggesting as a "fix" and yet... *this* boss doesn't have it...

[dubious little]

This is why I'm glad Klei doesn't always listen to the fans.

[Monkey Cups]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:14 PM, Shosuko said:

DST is not a combat simulator.  This isn't dark souls, apex arena, or smite.

Even in the souls series there are ways to cheese bosses. Behold: watchdog vs 99 arcane

Eh...if lureplants and tables ever get patched someone will probably mod it back in within a few hours depending on how extensive the changes were.

[PetulantPansy]

OP forgot to use wanda in the screenshot vs wendy. 

[Wonz]

Waste of time. If you don't like the cheese then don't cheese. Klei could save time add something cool or fix some issues with saved time.

Klaus isn't THAT hard anyway, if it affected someone like champion then it would be something.

[Mike23Ua]

What if instead of this obvious exploit Klei instead added new weapons or gave the lureplant new functionality?

Such as.. a Bear Trap that snaps on enemies holding them in place for a few seconds, or having the Lureplant do some weird Batman Poison Ivy Living plant thing where it can extend its vines out and wrap around nearby foes holding them in place like a Bear Trap?

I find it a bit silly that people are able to trap something as big as Klaus in between a Lureplant or Stagehand.