Pig Princess Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Recently topic about Willow's bear was created, and among other things fire immunity and affinity impact on her gameplay were mentioned. I want to discuss those aspects of her gameplay more, as well as write some ideas I came up with to increase usage of these mechanics. 1. Ability to extinguish already burning entities with very quick animation, also an option to use fire staff on already burning non-attackable entities to extinguish them from a distance (only for Willow). Before any other change to interaction with fire I think it's important to give Willow better control over fire, preferably without cluttering her inventory with extra unique items, ice staves, etc. . In case of entities that can be attacked their burning time should reset like it works now. Intent of this idea is to give Willow more utility and an option to use more resources to control fires (besides available to everyone ice staves, water balloons and ice flingomatic). 2. Ability to start different kinds of fire: regular, cold and shadow. Resistance to all 3 types of fire should be calculated separately, as well as separately from freezing resistance; all 3 types of fires could be extinguished with the same general items. Cold fire should still burn things to crisp and spread, but flame temperature should be greatly below 0; ability to light mob on fire should depend on mob's ability to freeze, e.i. if mob is immune to regular fire but not to freezing (for example, Dragonfly) cold fire should do damage over time equal to one of regular flame while regular flame is not an option; duration of burning should be the same as in case regular flame. Shadow fire duration, ability to spread, damage over time and whether mobs panic from it or not should scale depending of Willow's sanity (the one that caused mentioned fire), e.i. very low time of burning, big spread radius, high damage over time and mobs panicking as usual when Willow is insane and very long burning time, inability to spread, no damage over time and mobs not panicking if Willow's sanity is above certain treshold (for example, 85% sanity; 50% treshold for panicking/not panicking; between 10% and 85% sanity numerical characteristics scale between values for 10% and 85% sanity). Shadow flame would drain sanity (less for Willow than for other characters), this fire would give light but would not change temperature. 3. Type of flame Willow inflicts to entity (via attack or just lighting) depends on whether she was close to it resently (last 5 days) in case of cold and shadow flames, order or flames applied (by continuously attacking with igniting items) depends on the order she applied flames last time, e.i. if last time she started regular->cold->shadow, then next time she would start shadow->cold->regular. Unlocking cold flame after long period or first time can be done via building endothermic fire/firepit, adding fuel to endothermic firepit or casting polar light, unlocking shadow flame could be done via bulding/lighting/adding fuel to night light, entering light radius of nightmare lights during nightmare phase or passing near ancient beacon (thing in the atrium that gives light after ancient key is inserted inside ancient gateway). 4. Ability to do circle of fire like Dragonfly does when Willow wears scalemail (option to "use" available only for Willow, like everyone can use snurtle armor). Type of flame depends on idea described in previous paragraph, but is locked until Willow herself doesn't change it via attacking by hand or litting something on fire. Bernie should be able to ignite from this attack and take damage over time. 5. General change (not character-specific) to loot of burning mobs: if mob dies on fire (regardless of type), only things that can catch fire should be replaced by ashes, for example, beefalo/steel wool, royal jelly, feathers, etc., but not gears, gems, blueprints, armor, etc. All of this would obviously be a huge buff for Willow, but I think it would be balanced by the fact that flame is hard to control and using all of described above would require high skill, additional items and resources (fire staff, scalemail, structures, healing for tanking damage due to overheating, star caller/campfire/firepit for using cold fire), visiting dangerous/hard to get to places (ruin biomes with clockworks, atrium), sacrificing dps by attacking enemy with fire staff/Willow's lighter/torch, inability of some mobs to be ignited and frozen (debth worms, Fuelweaver), risk of burning burnable loot from mobs. Also I understand that Willow rework was a long time ago (so I doubt she would be revisited), but I still want to share my thoughts in case anyone capable wants to write a mod and likes these ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxposting Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadScra Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Willow is my main survivor, she is fine. Immune to fire, resistance to overheating and giant Bernie were all we need. 3 hours ago, Pig Princess said: 5. General change (not character-specific) to loot of burning mobs: if mob dies on fire (regardless of type), only things that can catch fire should be replaced by ashes, for example, beefalo/steel wool, royal jelly, feathers, etc., but not gears, gems, blueprints, armor, etc. Very much agree. Nobody use fire staff or scalemail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 16 minutes ago, BadScra said: Nobody use fire staff I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanBean150 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 I mentioned in the other thread the idea of a shadow fire which you could use to deal normal fire damage to mobs and players alike (including Willow, although she should maybe only take like a quarter of the damage), but which wouldn't spread. The way she would use this fire would be with her lighter, and she could refuel the lighter with it, giving it substantially more use. And, she could ignite Bernie with it, making him have much less health (like a quarter base health) but deal more damage. It would certainly add a bit of interest to her gameplay in the things that aren't Bernie, and also quite a bit more control. But I think she's fine how she is. A lot of people just don't see the potential in her, because her first 2 perks are a bit overlooked, and her bear seems quite risky to use safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 I don’t think Willow needs much of anything else To be honest, people completely overlook just how powerful Bernie is/Can be.. here let me help you guys out: https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Bernie 2000 Health.. to put that in Comparison, Abigail only has 600 at Max Strength, but but wait I’m not done… A single Sewing Kit https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Sewing_Kit Is good for 5 uses and will restore Bernie back to 100% so 2000x5 (short version 5x2) thats 10,000 health from a SINGLE BERNIE DOLL and ONE Sewing Kit.. Bring 2-3 More Dolls and 2-3 more Sewing Kits, and you have Dolls that will Automatically Animate to life taking the place of one Bernie when the first one dies allowing YOU to fully repair the destroyed one while your second Doll fights (I usually Carry both Bernie & Ashley & 2-3 Sewing Kits) now let’s compare BERNIE! To some of the games seemingly fearsome mobs.. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Spider_Queen 2500Hp on Spider Queens (with some minor annoying healing Nurses) she’s squished pretty easy. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Deerclops 4000hp on the Mighty Deerclops? That’s it… wow Bernie will make short work of him. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Bearger https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Moose/Goose 6000 Hp on the hungry Bearger AND The Moose/Goose?? There’s no way those maths are correct, Get EM BERNIE! My point here: Is that Willow doesn’t really need a ton of work- I would LOVE to be able to refuel her lighter with Nightmare fuel (the lighter has infinite durability in solo DS Anyway…) AND to be able to Boost Bernie’s damage output by lighting him on fire to deal non-spreading DOT to whatever he attacks.. But even those things aren’t “needed” Bernie is already an absolute destroyer if he is used properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanBean150 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 53 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: I don’t think Willow needs much of anything else To be honest, people completely overlook just how powerful Bernie is/Can be.. here let me help you guys out: https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Bernie 2000 Health.. to put that in Comparison, Abigail only has 600 at Max Strength, but but wait I’m not done… A single Sewing Kit https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Sewing_Kit Is good for 5 uses and will restore Bernie back to 100% so 2000x5 (short version 5x2) thats 10,000 health from a SINGLE BERNIE DOLL and ONE Sewing Kit.. Bring 2-3 More Dolls and 2-3 more Sewing Kits, and you have Dolls that will Automatically Animate to life taking the place of one Bernie when the first one dies allowing YOU to fully repair the destroyed one while your second Doll fights (I usually Carry both Bernie & Ashley & 2-3 Sewing Kits) now let’s compare BERNIE! To some of the games seemingly fearsome mobs.. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Spider_Queen 2500Hp on Spider Queens (with some minor my annoying healing Nurses) she’s squished pretty easy. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Deerclops 4000hp on the Mighty Deerclops? That’s it… wow Bernie will make short work of him. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Bearger https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Moose/Goose 6000 Hp on the hungry Bearger AND The Moose/Goose?? There’s no way those maths are correct, Get EM BERNIE! My point here: Is that Willow doesn’t really need a ton of work- I would LOVE to be able to refuel her lighter with Nightmare fuel (the lighter has infinite durability in solo DS Anyway…) AND to be able to Boost Bernie’s damage output by lighting him on fire to deal non-spreading DOT to whatever he attacks.. But even those things aren’t “needed” Bernie is already an absolute destroyer of used properly. Here's a video of a couple of the bosses you mentioned. Bernie doesn't do to great against them, compared to an even semi-competent Wolfgang or Wanda who knows how to hold F. So no, that's not really a great example of where Bernie shines. If you want a good example, try destroying an entire killer bee field without taking any damage. Or try wiping out an entire village of beardlings or shadow monkeys. Or, literally yesterday, I (spontaneously, I was looking for bunnies to kill and stumbled across them lol) rushed the ruins with no outside healing and no ruins armor or weapons. Not terribly impressive, don't get me wrong. But that is probably the earliest I have ever entered the ruins, and maybe the 4th time in total. (Which didn't end in death.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said: the problem with bernie is his dps, low hit rate and has a long animation punching his head is great as a taunt-tank but not as fighter, for that exists abigail and i think is great to have 2 followers that doesnt share mechanics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said: I don’t think Willow needs much of anything else To be honest, people completely overlook just how powerful Bernie is/Can be.. here let me help you guys out: https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Bernie 2000 Health.. to put that in Comparison, Abigail only has 600 at Max Strength, but but wait I’m not done… A single Sewing Kit https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Sewing_Kit Is good for 5 uses and will restore Bernie back to 100% so 2000x5 (short version 5x2) thats 10,000 health from a SINGLE BERNIE DOLL and ONE Sewing Kit.. Bring 2-3 More Dolls and 2-3 more Sewing Kits, and you have Dolls that will Automatically Animate to life taking the place of one Bernie when the first one dies allowing YOU to fully repair the destroyed one while your second Doll fights (I usually Carry both Bernie & Ashley & 2-3 Sewing Kits) now let’s compare BERNIE! To some of the games seemingly fearsome mobs.. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Spider_Queen 2500Hp on Spider Queens (with some minor annoying healing Nurses) she’s squished pretty easy. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Deerclops 4000hp on the Mighty Deerclops? That’s it… wow Bernie will make short work of him. https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Bearger https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Moose/Goose 6000 Hp on the hungry Bearger AND The Moose/Goose?? There’s no way those maths are correct, Get EM BERNIE! My point here: Is that Willow doesn’t really need a ton of work- I would LOVE to be able to refuel her lighter with Nightmare fuel (the lighter has infinite durability in solo DS Anyway…) AND to be able to Boost Bernie’s damage output by lighting him on fire to deal non-spreading DOT to whatever he attacks.. But even those things aren’t “needed” Bernie is already an absolute destroyer if he is used properly. I mean abigial has a free revive, isn't reliant on conditional mental states, can be controlled and desummoned at will before even considering her damage is aoe based. Webber's spiders also surpass Bernie in every way aside from fighting shadows. I feel like willow could stand to getsome quality of life on Bernie in some areas. Bernie should at bare minimum turn to his small activated state when willow is under attack by shadow monsters regardless of if she's insane or not and when she is insane she should be able to swap bernie between his big and small forms so he can be transported and patched up easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 i think that she should have more fire damage even if fire has niche uses it would totally fit her and there is already characters with many niche or weak perks just because them fit the personallity or the mechanics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 13 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: I do I'm curious, what for, or how? People on my server love making them for some reason and they stockpile, I want to find a use for them (that doesn't burn a forest or the base) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 minute ago, ShadowDuelist said: I'm curious, what for, or how? People on my server love making them for some reason and they stockpile, I want to find a use for them (that doesn't burn a forest or the base) to be honest, with some characters i dont use them but with default damage characters without an army (the houses catch in fire and turning on icefling can be so cheese to my taste) i use a couple of fire staff to fight beequeen (i shove non renewables before the fight). In the 1st phase you can kill 3 bees and let one alive so BQ doesnt spawn more and, to prevent getting hit by the bee alive, use fire or ice staff to cc it against AG if, thanks to the world gen, i dont see any scenario where i will scrub a lot to be in need of the lightbulbs in the AG arena vs klaus if i want to speed up the fight as a default character or if i dont have a star caller staff, same for deerclops if i remember to carry it. You can use it to prevent castings from the blue deer but doesnt work 100% and you will damage him so, if you get a hound wave, you might ruin the fight, also isnt the spell that makes you lose more time, the fire one steals you more dps since you waste more time avoiding it so an ice staff would be more effective, but nobody stops you to use it or even both like joecoolstuff in his 0 damage klaus fight if i have bad luck with volt goats or moose goose and i want toad lamps i would carry few to despatch the mushtrees and save in weather pains (i dont use them anymore cuz glass axes) also i have use them sometimes to deal damage to toad while im chopping if im riding a beefalo in winter so i dont have to unmount to heat up, now you can even drop and pick up the thermal stone if you wanna drop it near a tree to make it keep a lot of temperature i used sometimes in DS when i was looting a RoG to protect me from hound waves since they will run randomly if you burn them. I dont use this in DST since a lot of things arent renewable but was fun an effective if aimed well (a shame because with the new fighting fix it would work like a charm) this is obv but for farming antlion glass statues, they look so good i didnt tried but CC, if isnt invunerable, could be a new candidate for me to waste some red gems also a tip, if a splumonkey steals you a head armor and you wanna recover it, dont hit them since you will break it and you might broke it, kill it with fire. I guess if is on fire when the monkey die they will drop ashes (klei change this for the damn fireproof items) so you might deal the last hit with a direct atack but atleast it will have more durability. That or kill monkey arround that moneky so it drops everything when scaried i think that is all, is so niche but for bosses are great, every hit deals a good amount of damage vs bosses (they take more damage from fire for some reason) and for rinding beefalos in winter to make it more confortable. I would like a little buff to fire like not dropping things that wont burn in any other scenario (boss loot could still being burned just for the sake of suffering xD) and give willo like x1.5 or x2 fire damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkenpelz Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 14 hours ago, BadScra said: Nobody use fire staff Burn them splumonkey houses! BURN THEM!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 i forget one of the coolest uses for fire staffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenomeSquirrel Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 51 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said: i forget one of the coolest uses for fire staffs doesn't a torch do the exact same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanBean150 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said: doesn't a torch do the exact same thing? It does if you're a nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said: doesn't a torch do the exact same thing? but torches deals a little of damage, with the fire staff, not only is more confortable, but it doesnt deal any damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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