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First time in "Midgame", question about food


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EDIT:  After thinking about it a few days, I have come to understand I have more ways of making PH2O then I had originally thought.  Converting Carbon dioxide to PH2O being the biggest one I never thought about.  With that in mind, I will be going with Stuffed berries, and therefor not needing to ranch the, apparently, finicky pufts.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

First time I have ever ran a colony over 200 turns, and I am ready to start expanding operations into more late game builds.  I am looking for suggestions on a couple of areas, namely late game farming.

Farming is next project up.  I set up a basic mushroom farm early on, for the basic fried mushroom.  Since I have no polluted water geysers or polluted oxygen vents on my asteroid,  I feel mushroom wraps is the way to go.  Meat/Fish production is obviously possible, but I don't like ranching in general, and frankly I don't want to deal with it.  Anyway, to farm mushrooms and lettuce sustainably, I will need to ranch pufts.

I googled around, and looked at blueprintsnotincluded for some ideas on puft ranches.  Nothing really popped out at me, so I am asking here.  My best idea right now is to use the polluted water from the bathrooms (16 dupes) to keep bottom tiles filled, and to stop slime from sublimating.  I have 2 chlorine gas vents, so I should just have to make a decontamination chamber for the bathroom water to keep food poisoning germs away.  After I start getting squeak pufts, making a chlorine ranch should be easy.

The only other thing I saw that looked interesting is using morbs, which is an interesting idea, but seems needlessly complicated.

Any thoughts or suggestions? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, giygus said:

Meat/Fish production is obviously possible, but I don't like ranching in general, and frankly I don't want to deal with it.  Anyway, to farm mushrooms and lettuce sustainably, I will need to ranch pufts.

Uhm, ok :D So you skip the things that are easy to ranch and go straight for the critters that are among the hardest to ranch. Yes, that makes sense.

1 hour ago, giygus said:

Since I have no polluted water geysers or polluted oxygen vents on my asteroid

You do have sort of a polluted water geyser in petroleum generators though.

Either way, you're making it way more complicated that it needs to be because you're focused on continuing to farm mushrooms. Switch to completely automated bristle blossoms or sleet wheat farms, and then use the polluted water from the petroleum generators for a completely automated pincha pepper farm. That'd sort you out and mean that you're not wasting dupe time farming or ranching.

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I feel like if you don't like ranching to begin with, then ranching pufts is the wrong direction to go. Pufts are annoying. You'll also need a way of bottling pwater to get the necessary offgassing rate. Both are doable but could be too much of a hassle depending on your point of view.

If you just want a sustainable food solution, I'd go with gristle berry. Water is super abundant. Easy to automate self harvesting so no dupe labor besides cooking is required. Morale isn't great but honestly rooms give you enough morale to get the skills that actually do something.

Sorry for not answering your question. I don't have a build since I find pufts way too obnoxious to deal with.

Wild farming is another option if you're really set on mushroom wraps. I personally find it degenerate, but it's your choice.

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55 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Uhm, ok :D So you skip the things that are easy to ranch and go straight for the critters that are among the hardest to ranch. Yes, that makes sense

Never farmed pufts before, didn't sound that hard.  Other then needing to sperate the types with there needed gas, I didn't think they would be hard, since I don't think I would need more then 8 of each of the 2 kinds.  Which is to say, 2 more ranches at most.  I had read that farming fish is a pain, and how do you feed them, they need so much slime?  I keep reading fish kill frame rate as well, but idk.  Hatches are obviously easy, I have like 20+ right now, but trying to automate drowning chambers for meat sounds like more of a pain then 12 more critters.

55 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

You do have sort of a polluted water geyser in petroleum generators though

That did occur to me, but I don't need nearly enough electricity to run 2, 2K generators very often.  Figured sticking with what I had was best, but maybe...

 

55 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Switch to completely automated bristle blossoms

That was my original plan until I started adding up how much polluted water I needed for the peppers.  Maybe that won't be such a barrier as I had thought though...I was also thinking of the sleetweed, but wasn't sure how to get unlimited dirt.

 

52 minutes ago, wachunga said:

You'll also need a way of bottling pwater to get the necessary offgassing rate

This was my biggest concern, getting enough PO2 from the PH2O and something I couldn't find math on (i.e: how many tiles of PW per puft etc...).

 

12 minutes ago, Occam Blazer said:

I recently set up a puft ranch

Sir, that is not a ranch, that is factory farming. 

I was hoping for something a little more, idk, organic.  But I do very much appreciate the time and effort it took to build and run such a contraption.

EDIT:  Actually, I have no idea how much time and effort that took, but it must have been lots of both...

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44 minutes ago, giygus said:

something I couldn't find math on

In the base game last time I checked, a cell of pwater has a 0.1% chance of offgassing 0.1% of it's mass every tick (1/5 second). One cell of 1000kg pwater should average 3kg of poxygen every cycle. Feeding a dupe 1000kcal of mushroom wraps requires 583kcal of fried mushrooms which requires 500kcal of mushrooms which requires 1.56 mushroom plants which requires 6.25kg slime which requires 6.58kg poxygen (regular pufts convert @ 95%). So 2193kg of pwater needs to be sitting around for each dupe. Bottles go faster but I never did the research on them. Note that I believe overpressurizing cells of pwater to increase offgassing no longer works in the DLC.

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Ranching pufts... It does get out of hand if you put your mind to it. IMO: Easiest ones to ranch are dense pufts, the rate at which they change egg types really does them good if you pen them in a free open space with a couple of princes. I haven't made a proper ranch for them though. (Oxygen does become a nuisance gas at some point.)

I do have a proper 96 tile ranch for squeaky and regular pufts each. To keep the egg morphs in production it takes only 1 (read: one) prince puft per ranch and if you split the chambers the prince should go separately and without grooming.

Regular pufts will easily vacuum up any polluted oxygen room if you're not careful and more so if you keep them groomed. Natural offgassing of polluted water just doesn't cut it. If you decide to go this route do look into a mogom or any build that uses offgassing from bottles. I built an optimized version of brothgar's bottler contraption that's precisely for a puft ranch. Lots and lots of automation if you ask me.

1 hour ago, wachunga said:

Note that I believe overpressurizing cells of pwater to increase offgassing no longer works in the DLC.

This is correct, here's something to the fact:

 

A low hanging fruit type of ranching experience lies with pips. They consume arbor trees and poop dirt which in turn is part of the fertilizing requirements for farming the trees...

The least resource intensive is a drecko ranch: pop some balm lilies in chlorine where those fluffy things can reach them and you're good to go fodder-wise. (This does assume you've gotten used to controlling an atmosphere in a room though)

Bear this in mind: Any groomed critter will produce a considerable amount of eggs. Let the dupes enjoy an omelette or two. ;-)

Unlocking shipping is a great way to ease any ranching experience.

 

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6 hours ago, JRup said:

Unlocking shipping is a great way to ease any ranching experience

Yeah I really need to start learning this, never shipped anything before, only used those grabber arms for autofilling this and that from a box underneath.

 

8 hours ago, wachunga said:

So 2193kg of pwater needs to be sitting around for each dupe

TYVM, so in a 96 tile ranch, built 24 tiles long, I couldn't have more then 21 tiles of PW off gassing (2 for grooming, one for dropoff).  Unless I built a chamber elsewhere to make more gas the ez way (no bottles) and pumped it in.  I was also reading something abut the pufts needing to float up to poop, not sure how building the long ranch would effect that.

 

8 hours ago, wachunga said:

In the base game last time I checked, a cell of pwater has a 0.1% chance of offgassing 0.1% of it's mass every tick (1/5 second). One cell of 1000kg pwater should average 3kg of poxygen every cycle

So the thing striking me the most about puft ranching is that, again, PH2O is the base resource needed.  If that is the case, I am probably better of just using PH2O to farm the pepper plant and make pepper bread instead of mushroom wraps. 

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If you only want to ranch one particular type of puft it can get very annoying, but if you ranch all three it's not so bad. Just set up the environments appropriately, then use auto-wrangling settings so your ranchers can organise the inevitable mess of puft types without player intervention. Slime for mushrooms, bleach stone for lettuce, and oxylite for use in your rockets later.

As others have pointed out, some other food paths may be simpler. But if you have the eventual means to make sustainable mushroom wraps, go ahead and make sustainable mushroom wraps. Being able to successfully overcome challenges in order to get what you want is a big part of what makes this game fun.

I never found a simple way to ensure only one puft prince is in each ranch, but in the end it didn't matter much. I just let the princes be and the other types got moved as necessary, although in my case i just wanted the bleach stone and oxylite.

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12 hours ago, giygus said:

Sir, that is not a ranch, that is factory farming. 

I was hoping for something a little more, idk, organic.  But I do very much appreciate the time and effort it took to build and run such a contraption.

EDIT:  Actually, I have no idea how much time and effort that took, but it must have been lots of both...

Thanks. (-: It was a lot of time and effort for a silly idea. I imagine free-range pufts would be much easier. I'd start with the food calculator to see how much slime you need to produce every cycle. Then check the wiki to figure out how many wild pufts it takes to produce the slime. That leads you to how much polluted oxygen you have to generate.

My favorite way of producing polluted oxygen is using bottles. (In vanilla - I forget if they changed things in the DLC.) I eventually ripped out that puft factory and put in this contraption. It doesn't take a lot of dupe labor.

20210602111218_1.thumb.jpg.4a2f8e530c3eb05e956f9d1b0bee5373.jpg

Spoiler

20210602111220_1.thumb.jpg.b22c89f272fff39b6839d821f27c0c37.jpg

 

The bottom liquid valves are set to 50 g/s and are used to keep the bottles submerged in about 1.5 kg of polluted water. This keeps them producing gas. The top two valves are 0.1 g/s in order to form a bead pump.

20210602111223_1.thumb.jpg.753b5b057ce9fd0bd3a6c71c219abace.jpg

You can find a good explanation of a few other methods by @GreezyHammer on their youtube.

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16 hours ago, giygus said:

I had read that farming fish is a pain

I think fish farming is easier than ranching hatches and just as easy as ranching shove voles. Pacu reproduce so quickly you don't need a large breeder ranch to make a lot of Calories.

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23 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Here's an option to farm mushrooms indefinitely at full speed and zero slime cost

That is a neat exploit, is there nothing pips can't do?

 

The more I have been thinking about it, the more I realized that I have other source of PH2O.  Carbon dioxide from dupes, generators, and a CO2 vent can all be utilized for straight up PH2O, which I had just been converting to water.  The petroleum generator that I will build soon will go a long way, and using chlorine to kill food poisoning from the bathrooms will also be utilized.

I just wasn't thinking around corners enough, and will go ahead with stuffed berries instead of mushroom wraps. 

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2 hours ago, giygus said:

is there nothing pips can't do

I'm not sure they can excrete uranium. Oh wait, wrong forum... That belongs in the DLC.  :) 

The others in this thread are absolutely correct that focusing on something besides slime and mushrooms is the way to go (if you are looking for simple).  Pufts are a pain.  They are "kill on sight" in my game. If you want to challenge yourself, then going for sustainable mushrooms is absolutely one way to create a "hard" side game. Happy ONI. 

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