Skill tree thoughts

[Sasza22]

The current skill tree is fine but it has a few flaws. I remember one of the earlier iterations that farced me to have a single high morale requirement dupe to do stuff like geyser analysis while the rest was fine on low requirements. It created a fun challenge but overall it was inferior to the current system.

Now i was wondering about the how much morale requirement the skills needed i realized the skills aren`t equal. Like mining gives you the ability to mine different hardness of roks which is needed to leave your starting biome and move further. Lvl 3 is needed to open geysers. It`s a lot more compared to building skill that is just a stat boost. It almost feels like some buildings should be restricted behind that skill for it to be equal (similar like rovers can`t build stuff beyond a certain tech level).

Ranching skill gives you a lot but the next level is just stats despite costing more. Same for lvl 3 farming. They just don`t feel worth it. Currently my main gripe with the skill tree is that higher levels don`t feel worth it. I`d like to have a reason to build a high requirement dupe, give him a separate bedroom and different food just for him but stats alone aren`t enough of a payoff for that.

[goboking]

Building has always been the weakest skill line.  The deconstruction skill is a step in the right direction, but I'd be perfectly fine if, say, nuclear reactors or rockets required a construction 3 dupe to build.  Ranching is also pretty weak.  The rest of the skill lines seem okay to me.  Some of them gate certain buildings or functions (i.e. masterwork art or nuclear research), and others offer skill increases in jobs that really benefit from them (i.e seed drop chances for farming).

Aside from adding a bunch of job-specific stations, I'm not sure what they can do to make certain skill lines more appealing.

[Yobbo]

Ranching level 3: allow wrangling of flying, swimming and flopping critters?

As much as i liked completely ignoring the building skill line, having some high tier buildings locked behind it does seem like a solid idea.

[Coolthulhu]

I'm against buildings requiring skills. For mechatronics on low morale planetoids, it results in skill up->do jobs->reset, like art and demolition.

Additionally, it creates a problem where the mechatronics dupe is one of the best haulers in colony, must have high building priority to ever finish the specific constructions, but shouldn't waste time with regular buildings.

Ranching and farming are actually pretty good, because they give constant benefits, even if small ones. They also don't require the dupe to be the only rancher/farmer on the planet (or weird door limits), except for irradiated seed collection. Cooking is also done well.

The only way I see construction could gain a more permanent boost would be if it gave non-construction benefits, like being required for manufacture of certain materials. Art or medicine (but not both) could have a cheer up/psychotherapy job for stressed dupes. Digging could have a longer skill line and benefit the asteroid digging so much that you'd want to have two dupes: digger and pilot (or a digger pilot with a ton of luxury on the rocket, to offset the high morale requirements).

[booleanman1983]

chef skill - the higher, the more sophisticated kitchen techniques he can use. google english

[TuxSam123]

11 hours ago, goboking said:

Building has always been the weakest skill line.  The deconstruction skill is a step in the right direction, but I'd be perfectly fine if, say, nuclear reactors or rockets required a construction 3 dupe to build.  Ranching is also pretty weak.  The rest of the skill lines seem okay to me.  Some of them gate certain buildings or functions (i.e. masterwork art or nuclear research), and others offer skill increases in jobs that really benefit from them (i.e seed drop chances for farming).

Aside from adding a bunch of job-specific stations, I'm not sure what they can do to make certain skill lines more appealing.

They kind of added some skill-specific buildings (conveyor rails, steam turbine, the demolish skill), but I see what you're trying to say.

1 hour ago, booleanman1983 said:

chef skill - the higher, the more sophisticated kitchen techniques he can use. google english

You mean more complex dishes? Like a cooking one dupe can make a few dishes (Pickled Meal, Mush Fry), but a cooking II dupe would be able to bake more fulfilling dishes (pepperbread, surf n turf, frost burger).

I like it!

[goboking]

3 hours ago, TuxSam123 said:

You mean more complex dishes? Like a cooking one dupe can make a few dishes (Pickled Meal, Mush Fry), but a cooking II dupe would be able to bake more fulfilling dishes (pepperbread, surf n turf, frost burger).

Isn't that already baked (See what I did there?  I'll see myself out.) into the game?  You need Cooking I to use the electric grill and Cooking II to use the gas range, which allows us to cook basic and advanced dishes, respectively.

[booleanman1983]

9 hours ago, goboking said:

Разве это не уже заложено (Видите, что я там делал? Я увижу себя) в игре? Вам понадобится Cooking I, чтобы использовать электрический гриль, и Cooking II, чтобы использовать газовую плиту, что позволяет нам готовить простые и расширенные блюда соответственно.

You're right. Then they just need to add a kitchen. New room.

[TuxSam123]

8 hours ago, booleanman1983 said:

You're right. Then they just need to add a kitchen. New room.

Agreed.

[booleanman1983]

18 minutes ago, TuxSam123 said:

Agreed.

Thanks. I'm waiting for the update

[TuxSam123]

Just now, booleanman1983 said:

Thanks. I'm waiting for the update

You are welcome! Me too!

[booleanman1983]

3 minutes ago, TuxSam123 said:

You are welcome! Me too!

By the way.. about new rooms 

Vote for me

[Sasza22]

On 5/31/2021 at 7:18 AM, Coolthulhu said:

I'm against buildings requiring skills. For mechatronics on low morale planetoids, it results in skill up->do jobs->reset, like art and demolition.

Wouldn`t it be more straighforward if it required the building skill instead. At least the dupe would be good in building. Mechatronics requiring carrying instead of building was a weird choice imo. Realisitcally 90% of the stuff you build are tiles, ladders and different types of pipes. If stuff like airlock doors and some crafting stations required lvl 1 build skill it wouldn`t hurt. Then level 2 for glass forge, metal forge and polymer press. Finally level 3 for molecular forge, nuclear tech and maybe some rocket parts.

Another thing is the engineer skill. At lvl 1 it just boosts tinkering. Why not make it required for operating the metal forge and exosuit forge (i just realized a lot of buildings have "forge" in their name).

[Coolthulhu]

36 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Wouldn`t it be more straighforward if it required the building skill instead.

Yes, but that's more like lesser evil than a good thing.

37 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Another thing is the engineer skill. At lvl 1 it just boosts tinkering. Why not make it required for operating the metal forge and exosuit forge (i just realized a lot of buildings have "forge" in their name).

This sounds good.

[AndreyKl]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:18 AM, Coolthulhu said:

I'm against buildings requiring skills. For mechatronics on low morale planetoids, it results in skill up->do jobs->reset, like art and demolition.

The fact that you can take a level 3 skill, like decorating, decorate then scrub the skill harms value of skill system significantly.

Potential workaround might be to lock morale requirement, so if a dupe requires 10 morale, scrubbing skills will still leave a dupe with 10 morale requirement, but taking new skills will be morale-free until you reach previous level of morale requirement.

On 5/31/2021 at 8:18 AM, Coolthulhu said:

Art or medicine (but not both) could have a cheer up/psychotherapy job for stressed dupes.

Potential options for art might be 'trimming bushes', 'polishing statues', haircuts and 'styling wardrobes'

[Coolthulhu]

12 hours ago, AndreyKl said:

Potential options for art might be 'trimming bushes', 'polishing statues', haircuts and 'styling wardrobes'

As long as it doesn't just increase decor of those. If it only increased their decor, it would be better to just build more statues and never spend time on polishing them.

[Sasza22]

16 hours ago, AndreyKl said:

The fact that you can take a level 3 skill, like decorating, decorate then scrub the skill harms value of skill system significantly.

At least now with the artifact analyzer you need lvl 2 decorating to operate it. Not much but a step in the right direction imo. Just needs to be more obvious that it requires that skill.

[Genry]

31.05.2021 в 01:18, Sasza22 сказал:

Текущее дерево навыков хорошего, но у него есть несколько недостатков. Я помню одну из более ранних итераций. Это было забавно, но в целом уступало нынешней системе.

Теперь мне было интересно, насколько требуются навыки морального духа. Подобный майнинг дает вам возможность добывать камни разной твердости, которые необходимы, чтобы покинуть ваш стартовый биом и двигаться дальше. Уровень 3 необходим для открытия гейзеров. Это намного больше, чем строительный навык, это просто повышение характеристик. Похоже, что некоторые здания должны быть ограничены этим навыком, чтобы он был равным (аналогично, как марсоходы не могут строить вещи выше определенного технического уровня).

Навык ранчо дает вам многое, но следующий уровень - это просто статистика, несмотря на то, что он стоит дороже. То же самое для фарма 3 уровня. Они просто не чувствуют себя стоящими. В настоящее время моя основная проблема с деревом навыков заключается в том, что более высокие уровни не стоят того. Я хотел бы иметь одну статистику для этого недостаточно.

Created a topic: skill tree. Too many would have to write in the comments. I threw my suggestions there.