Radiation system expectations

[Sasza22]

When radiation was announced as one of the core systems to be added i expected it to be something like another tier of stuff above the oil tier. It seemed pretty straightforward: First planetoid provides us basic resources, second gives us oil for plastic and advanced rockets, third gives us uranium for the radiation stuff.

But in the current implementation gathering radbolts for our needs is pretty easy even without exploits and early research requires just 5 point which is basically a single radbolt. The radbolt generators are so effective that it`s doable with just space radiation and minimal setup. It almost feels like you can get most of the stuff done with just a handful of wheezeworts and we don`t really need to explore the third asteroid and build a research reactor. Moreso the amounts of radiation produced in the process are low enough that dupes aren`t ever at risk.

It feels awkward. I guess it`s not balanced yet and new features will be added but i`m interested how others feel about it. Do you want radbolts to remain easy to create or do you prefer it requiring more refined setups?

[UnderwearApp]

I would agree with that assessment. Personally I haven't bothered making a refined setup for radbolts because there is no point. As you say the negative effects can be easily ignored, a lot like germs in the current build. As the radiation system is essentially more germs, I'd expect them to continue to be a minor annoyance. Making radiation severe would do the same thing the old germs did and the player base will cry bloody murder. That being said, I use Diseases Restored as I prefer the more serious illness symptoms, and I'm confident that when the author updates it for DLC, it will have similar consequences, so not a huge issue for me.

 

The main problem I have with radiation is that there is not enough to spend radbolts on. I see no point in making a reactor when I can passively collect so many over time and no building or process requires so many so quickly. This may be addressed with the latest patch causing radbolts to lower over time in disabled generators. The radbolt engine and launcher are steps in the right direction and I'm sure there is more to be added, but this also has to do with how easy radbolt generation and storage is. I would love if we HAD to make shielding, lead suits, etc. or the dupes/plants/critters would suffer.

[babba]

5 minutes ago, UnderwearApp said:

...

I would love if we HAD to make shielding, lead suits, etc. or the dupes/plants/critters would suffer.

This was my original expectation too, I hope Klei will make it feel "more hazard radiation real".

[pether]

Totally agree!

IMO, there could be few solutions to the problem:

• Space, shinebugs and wheezeworts radiation removed (at least from basic morphs) - go get radbolts from 3rd asteroid like a real man!
• Radbolt generators require radiation above some threshold to start working
• Even low radiation is more dangerous for dupes

Without any of the above, green (aka - high tier) science is trivial and it doesn't really balance anything (looking at green science consuming soloar panels...)

[Electroely]

I do agree that there are some issues with how radiation is balanced at the moment, but I think it'd be best to wait until all the content related to it is added before large-scale balancing is done. We know there's still going to be a plant mutation system and a "gamma ray oven" that are probably going to be using radbolts. I think that once all the new content is confirmed to be in radbolt production balancing can be properly discussed.

As for whether radiation itself is a danger or not, I agree that it's hardly a risk at all at the moment - though that's mainly due to the fact that dupes don't need to spend a lot of time near radiation sources. It's usually easily avoided - the radiation producers are simply placed out of the way, or in the case of stationary ones like the crushed satellite, infrastructure is built around it to avoid direct exposure. I feel like these kinds of radiation sources can't really be made dangerous without making them into a massive annoyance.
I think there are a couple of scenarios where radiation has potential to be dangerous with proper changes, though. Mainly: The Radbolt engine and the uranium biome. I personally believe that if the radiation coming off ore were to be significantly increased, and if dupes could absorb radiation from the tiles they're standing on, both of these things could pose a risk without proper protection since the engine makes the tiles under it radioactive and the uranium biome can be safely explored with no protection ATM. The threshold for radiation sickness might need to be adjusted, though. Maybe effects begin at 15 rads and worsen at 25? That way earlier radiation sources wouldn't be very annoying while stronger ones will cause at least mild sickness if dupes pass by them consistently.

[Magheat2009]

I do not understand the need for 'losing 1 radbolt for every tile travelled mechanic'. It is one of the things that make Research Reactor not that useful. When I first learned about the way radbolts had to be reflected and directed towards the consumer, I was excited about the propect of making a pathway closed for my dupes for radbolts zipping from the Reactor to its different consumers spread across the base. Turns out that approach is not very efficient and you get good amount from wheezewort and space, so just making consumers and source be near each other was the way to go. 

[stgo]

32 minutes ago, Magheat2009 said:

I do not understand the need for 'losing 1 radbolt for every tile travelled mechanic'. It is one of the things that make Research Reactor not that useful.

I do fully agree on that !

[sakura_sk]

Maybe Research Reactor needs to provide radbolts and not radiation. It could provide radbolts in bigger quantities than 50 that the generators give (maybe a slider 50-200?). Then we could build longer routes for radbolt delivery and have more fun ping-ponging 

[babba]

1 hour ago, sakura_sk said:

Maybe Research Reactor needs to provide radbolts and not radiation. It could provide radbolts in bigger quantities than 50 that the generators give (maybe a slider 50-200?). Then we could build longer routes for radbolt delivery and have more fun ping-ponging 

Ping Pong is great !

I was just about ( in a thousand cycles or so ) to build a big fat reactor, but I guess I "need" to start a fresh game with the new world generation setting options and lots of home world resources. @pether hypnotized me...

Size matters