Mining Deposits, the Alternative Way to Renew Solid Material

[fpx007]

Considering the rework of space system, I think it is necessary to add something to reliably renew minerals and metal ores (and probably other solid materials). My idea is the introduction of  mining deposits. The concept of mining deposits is easy, they just work like oil reserviors, i.e. you need to build some kind of structures on them (e.g. drillers) and need power and dup labors to work. The dups need adequate digging skills (>= the level required to dig the solid form) to operate the machine. For different solid material, they have different base yield rate, and the actual yield rate is affected by both excavation and tinkering levels of the working dups. Here, the tinkering level affects the amount of working time per harvest and the mining level affects the yield per harvest. However, their yield rates are not revealed at the beginning; only the type of resource they yields is known. To fully understand their base production rates and base working time, you need dups with Field Research studying them.

Besides, I also have a idea of mixed mining deposits. Unlike ordinary mining deposits, the mixed mining deposits have mixed yields, i.e. you may get multiple types of resources while using them. While using it, you get one kind of resource from all the possible outputs after each harvest. Most importantly, they may produce not only solid materials but also other resources, e.g. wild critter eggs and plant seeds (they were once buried long time ago for unknown reason, LoL). This makes it possible to regain the extinct creatures while have care packages disabled. These mixed mining deposits have certain "themes", perhaps resembling certain biomes, to let you know the possible products types. However, for each product, the chance of getting it and the yield per harvest is also unknown at the beginning. You also need dups with Field Research studying them to fully understand them.

[ExEvolution]

I think it could be good to extend your suggestion, make the machine extract a raw ore deposit, that has to be further processed to produce usable metal ore. Maybe another recipe in the rock crusher that extracts half the mass as the metal ore, and half as sand or stone. Just like the refined metal recipes, just producing non-refined metal first. 

[kezat]

I think that's what the metal volcanoes are intended to be on one of the asteroids. Also far more interesting I feel then a function like the oil reservoir. With a metal volcanoes you need to have some kind of system and infrastructure to gather the metal long term instead of just put X in and get Y out like the oil reservoir.

It still needs some balance tweaks perhaps but I'm really enjoying the finite resources that we seem to have now. It looks like end game is going to be about sustainability.

[serpent]

4 minutes ago, kezat said:

I think that's what the metal volcanoes are intended to be on one of the asteroids. Also far more interesting I feel then a function like the oil reservoir. With a metal volcanoes you need to have some kind of system and infrastructure to gather the metal long term instead of just put X in and get Y out like the oil reservoir.

It still needs some balance tweaks perhaps but I'm really enjoying the finite resources that we seem to have now. It looks like end game is going to be about sustainability.

i mean if we get niobium volcanoes/tungsten volcanoes etc that would just be busted as we get infinite OP materials relatively easy.

We definitely need something more for renewability then just volcanoes.

[JahwsUF]

1 hour ago, serpent said:

We definitely need something more for renewability then just volcanoes.

In particular, there's currently nothing that renews metal ore... and we have two critter types that eat it.  Granted, in the base game there are the occasional ore meteors... but those don't supply enough to satisfy one tamed critter's appetite, let alone a full ranch.

[serpent]

40 minutes ago, JahwsUF said:

In particular, there's currently nothing that renews metal ore... and we have two critter types that eat it.  Granted, in the base game there are the occasional ore meteors... but those don't supply enough to satisfy one tamed critter's appetite, let alone a full ranch.

exactly.

 

would be interesting to have like a stalagmite mechanic where we'd pipe water through a vent and slowly wash out minerals through vents. similar to oil wells actually. quite similar to op's idea actually. i like the idea of mineral deposits at least - dirty mining and what not.

[goboking]

43 minutes ago, JahwsUF said:

In particular, there's currently nothing that renews metal ore... and we have two critter types that eat it.

That's why I think plugslugs should eat refined iron and produce rust, which can be converted to iron ore via rust dioxidizers.

[JahwsUF]

58 minutes ago, goboking said:

That's why I think plugslugs should eat refined iron and produce rust, which can be converted to iron ore via rust dioxidizers.

That'd be beautiful.  I'd actually thought at one point about how a decent morph might work; that'd be a pretty good approach, especially if we're ever guaranteed an iron volcano somewhere.

[babba]

Drilling machine(s) idea(s) - There had been past suggestions + drawings over the years from forum users.

What I would find really cool would be a 2x dupe operated drilling machine, with a big ( diamond? ) drill head...Which breaks from time to time. So there could also be "Drill bit" manufacturing, where the player can decide from which material he manufactures the drilling machine drill bits.

A drilling machine which requires two dupes to sit in, that would be a nice resource decision for the player. Also this drilling machine could be the only machine which is able to drill and excavate super-super³-hard-resource-cells. Its an old Diesel run machine, on tank tracks, which needs lots of Petroleum, emitting gigatons of heat and CO2.

  The Diesel Drill, nicknamed "The durty duldo"

Requires 2 dupes pulling all the machine`s gear levers and pushing dropping out screws back in to the machine.

  The advanced space age version of the drilling machine

This modern drilling machine is remote controlled by 2 dupes holding one remote control each in their hands. This version runs electric and requires 12000 watt power as the drill bit is drilling in to "super-super³-hard-resource-cells".

[Sasza22]

A deposit that works similar to an oil well could be a good alternative to getting resources that can`t come from volcanoes like algae or clay (maybe even diamonds). I think it could require a special drill building that needs diamond to construct drills. Each drill would have a limited durability after which a new would need to be constructed. Only high level miners could operate the machine, maybe even a new tier of mining would be required.

[fpx007]

13 hours ago, ExEvolution said:

make the machine extract a raw ore deposit, that has to be further processed to produce usable metal ore.

I don't think this is really necessary, since the proposed new building already needs dups labor. Too many procedures will limit its effectiveness, thus making it not so useful as it is supposed to be.

 

8 hours ago, kezat said:

With a metal volcanoes you need to have some kind of system and infrastructure to gather the metal long term instead of just put X in and get Y out like the oil reservoir.

Although the cost of systems for metal volcano seem to be expensive, you only need to build them one time only, i.e. little or even no further cost (known as margin cost) for maintenance. As far as I know, many modules for metal volcanos don't need neither further dup labor nor electricity input. (Actually, they may even make a net output of electricity.) And for my proposal, the margin cost is obvious (the so called "X" in your post), thus balancing the investment and yield and providing a fair method to get rare resources.

 

6 hours ago, JahwsUF said:

In particular, there's currently nothing that renews metal ore... and we have two critter types that eat it.  Granted, in the base game there are the occasional ore meteors... but those don't supply enough to satisfy one tamed critter's appetite, let alone a full ranch.

That is the point! Although technically metal ores can be replaced with materials like steel, this doesn't seems to be a fair solution, not to mention the critters consuming metal ores. And when I was writing the first part of my proposal, the renewability issue of plants and critters came into my mind, thus I wrote the second part.

 

6 hours ago, serpent said:

would be interesting to have like a stalagmite mechanic where we'd pipe water through a vent and slowly wash out minerals through vents. similar to oil wells actually. quite similar to op's idea actually. i like the idea of mineral deposits at least - dirty mining and what not.

This is what I want to make, a natural structure work like oil reservoirs, but I didn't have an idea of resource input, so I used electricity and dups labor instead. Although you proposed the idea of water input, I think petroleum input seems to be more reasonable, which was indicated by babba's post.

 

4 hours ago, babba said:

Drilling machine(s) idea(s) - There had been past suggestions + drawings over the years from forum users.

What I would find really cool would be a 2x dupe operated drilling machine, with a big ( diamond? ) drill head...Which breaks from time to time. So there could also be "Drill bit" manufacturing, where the player can decide from which material he manufactures the drilling machine drill bits.

A drilling machine which requires two dupes to sit in, that would be a nice resource decision for the player. Also this drilling machine could be the only machine which is able to drill and excavate super-super³-hard-resource-cells. Its an old Diesel run machine, on tank tracks, which needs lots of Petroleum, emitting gigatons of heat and CO2.

  The Diesel Drill, nicknamed "The durty duldo"

Requires 2 dupes pulling all the machine`s gear levers and pushing dropping out screws back in to the machine.

  The advanced space age version of the drilling machine

This modern drilling machine is remote controlled by 2 dupes holding one remote control each in their hands. This version runs electric and requires 12000 watt power as the drill bit is drilling in to "super-super³-hard-resource-cells".

In your post, I find the idea that utilizing petroleum as resource input is reasonable. However, I'm not approval of neither 2-dup-working idea nor consumable diamond idea. The reason against 2-dup-working idea is because this will require too much dup labor, notably limiting the effectiveness. The reason against consumable diamond idea is that the diamond is very precious, while most resource you obtained from the proposed mining deposits are common ones; besides, the reproduction rate is very low (In vanilla game, you can only renew them via visiting carbon asteroids, and in DLC there is no way to renew them at the moment), and currently the only way to "consume" diamond is feeding radiant bugs (the latter is even rarer). However, using diamond to construct the driller structure is still reasonable as long as the cost of diamond isn't a type of margin cost.

 

37 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

A deposit that works similar to an oil well could be a good alternative to getting resources that can`t come from volcanoes like algae or clay (maybe even diamonds). I think it could require a special drill building that needs diamond to construct drills. Each drill would have a limited durability after which a new would need to be constructed. Only high level miners could operate the machine, maybe even a new tier of mining would be required.

I agree with most of your idea except the consumable diamond drill. The reason I have already explained in my reply to  babba.

[kezat]

10 hours ago, fpx007 said:

Although the cost of systems for metal volcano seem to be expensive, you only need to build them one time only, i.e. little or even no further cost (known as margin cost) for maintenance. As far as I know, many modules for metal volcanos don't need neither further dup labor nor electricity input. (Actually, they may even make a net output of electricity.) And for my proposal, the margin cost is obvious (the so called "X" in your post), thus balancing the investment and yield and providing a fair method to get rare resources.

Everyone has there take on how to play ONI and how you might get enjoyment from it. For me a game where you only place down a structure to convert X to Y  does not excite me or keep me thinking about and planning for it even when I'm not playing. We need options to do it in more fun and creative ways especially if it can be done to better effect/efficiency with more player thought and design.

The in game resource cost alone is not the end all be all metric for how effective a building or system should be, it needs the player planning and creativity resource also.

The Oil Refinery is a really good example of that. We have a way with that building to convert oil to petroleum inefficiently and with dup labor but still have alternative ways to convert it directly in the world and designing a custom system to do that. Or take it one step farther and go sour gas boiler. Oni would not be the same without those kind of options.

The Oil Refinery alternatives are also great because its not forced on the player, you don't have to make a complex system to convert oil to petroleum or natural gas if you don't want to. Even within the scope of the "complex system" you can make it as simple or complex as you feel like and still have it function to a degree. So yes, a building to convert X to Y might be needed but we really also need alternative (arguably should be more effective) methods for any simple building conversion.

[serpent]

1 hour ago, kezat said:

 

The in game resource cost alone is not the end all be all metric for how effective a building or system should be, it needs the player planning and creativity resource also.

The Oil Refinery is a really good example of that. We have a way with that building to convert oil to petroleum inefficiently and with dup labor but still have alternative ways to convert it directly in the world and designing a custom system to do that. Or take it one step farther and go sour gas boiler. Oni would not be the same without those kind of options.

 

100% agreed.

 

would be interesting to have an in game mechanic in form of stalagmites/bore holes or whatever u want. you run water through it to extract sludge, that sludge can then be panned by dupe labour similar to gold panning for minerals. the low tech building would just be random elements gained from it.

the high tech buildings could then allow mineral recrystallisation where'd u need a starting element of x metal. requires petroleum for the chemicals and some starting element metal. would extract random minerals still but greater quantities of the starter elements. another high tech building could be automated sludge washer etc. 

have the drawback to higher tech buildings be that it releases toxic gases like chlorine/co2 etc. that way you need to build a filtration system if u want to keep the gases or at least a way to vent it all out.

[SelenSewar]

Yes to that.