Anyone think research needs an overhaul?

[doomchicken]

Does anyone think research needs to be made more difficult? At the moment you only need dirt and water to get to max tier.

I think research needs to be divided into more tiers. Basic research (left most column) needs dirt, second column needs water, after that you need more rare resources (that aren't found in your starting asteroid).

It's a bit silly you start on your starter asteroid and before cycle 50 you've research solar panels (most advanced research) and getting free power - Surely to unlock the top tier stuff you should have to get stuff from another asteroid.

[pether]

My understanding is that they cut off endgame (I assume - with endgame research) for alpha for now and will add it later.

However, I agree that something might be chnged...

I don't like the tree takes so much vertical space, it is really hard to find the research you want to do now.

I don't like that on swamp biome, many early techs are useless, because they were balanced for other asteroids.

I agree they are finished too fast at the moment. Someone on the forum had this idea some time ago to add additional requirement for each tech (cost or achievement) - for example, solar panel tech could cost additional glass and/or requre you reached the top of the asteroid. This way, researching would be game of itself, sounds fun for me

Also - I miss lab room  along with the kitchen... I love coloring my base on room layout and I have those ugly gray spots where my legit kitchens and labs are...

I don't think all those issues are gamebreaking, but addressing them would be nice

[Cybeon]

Labroom and kitchen would be nice, though if we introduce lab room it would be nice to have some purpose for it after all researches are finished (which does not take that much time comparatively to the colony lifetime)

[BlackGoat]

I don't think materials needed should be changed since those are already a gate for what we can build but it would be nice if research was spread out further by each tech node taking far more research points to give the early/mid/late buildings more meaningful use. 

This isn't necessarily a Spaced Out issue though as I feel the same about the base game.

In typical vanilla games with a single dedicated researcher, I'm done with the entire tech tree except for rocketry in less than 100 cycles and like OP says - can go straight from hampster wheel to solar power like this.

In heavily modded games I use a mod to change the research tree to take 4-5x as many points with the highest tier of many lines (not just rocketry) needing space research points, between this and the added modded tech nodes this means reaching endgame tech can take hundreds of cycles even with a research 'team'.

I've found this leads to much more rewarding gameplay due to giving low-tech buildings more practical use, though this is probably too hardcore for the average player, some increase in the base game cost would be good to add a sense of progression.

[Steve8]

7 hours ago, Cybeon said:

though if we introduce lab room it would be nice to have some purpose for it after all researches are finished (which does not take that much time comparatively to the colony lifetime)

Add a ground control station for the rocket program. Like in the movie when you reach the temporal tear. Then researchers / astronauts can assist with rocket navigation and speed them up a bit.

 

Also one easy way to nerf solar power on the starting asteroid is decreasing the solar intensity on the surface. So you can use them, but they are far less effective. Then asteroids further out can be closer to the sun, but you also have to deal with meteoroids.

[Carcer_]

4 minutes ago, Steve8 said:

Add a ground control station for the rocket program. Like in the movie when you reach the temporal tear. Then researchers / astronauts can assist with rocket navigation and speed them up a bit.

Nah, once you have done all research your researcher builds a gamma infuser turning them into a green rage monster and levels the lab.

[minespatch]

9 hours ago, Cybeon said:

Labroom and kitchen would be nice, though if we introduce lab room it would be nice to have some purpose for it after all researches are finished (which does not take that much time comparatively to the colony lifetime)

I've been waiting for those a long while now. I have two rooms just for those alone despite not them being official rooms.

[doomchicken]

What about a "Factorio" style research system, where advanced researching requires more and more advanced production chains?

IT's just far too easy (even in base game) to just get 100% research from a small starting base with a bit of food, water, and basic oxygen systems up.

Basic research = basic resources

Intermediate research = more hard to get resources, either from production or from more hostile biomes

Advanced research = off planet resources, or advanced production like melting something to 1000C to produce

[minespatch]

4 minutes ago, doomchicken said:

Basic research = basic resources

I usually start with food and batteries.

[DarkMaster13]

5 hours ago, BlackGoat said:

I don't think materials needed should be changed since those are already a gate for what we can build but it would be nice if research was spread out further by each tech node taking far more research points to give the early/mid/late buildings more meaningful use. 

This isn't necessarily a Spaced Out issue though as I feel the same about the base game.

In typical vanilla games with a single dedicated researcher, I'm done with the entire tech tree except for rocketry in less than 100 cycles and like OP says - can go straight from hampster wheel to solar power like this.

In heavily modded games I use a mod to change the research tree to take 4-5x as many points with the highest tier of many lines (not just rocketry) needing space research points, between this and the added modded tech nodes this means reaching endgame tech can take hundreds of cycles even with a research 'team'.

I've found this leads to much more rewarding gameplay due to giving low-tech buildings more practical use, though this is probably too hardcore for the average player, some increase in the base game cost would be good to add a sense of progression.

I'd really rather not see research times increased.  That just means you have more dupes sitting around doing nothing but research.  If it took three times as long to research, I'd just triple my researchers.  About the only interesting thing about research right now is making sure you have enough input resources and don't over-research a shortage.

If research is changed, what I want to see is moving away from research being something that dupes sit around and do nothing else while they research.  Have us need to gather specific resources or build up production chains for research.  Give us limited supplies of special research items that we need to gather from points of interest and spend only on what we actually need.  Have some truly special end game stuff that we can't just rush down and give a real reword for exploring.

[Hexicube]

If there's a change to research, I think tiers are the wrong way to go about it. Instead, it should list required items for study.

Examples:

• Basic Farming - Currently Tier 1a, dirt as a requirement works here
• Power Regulation - Currently Tier 1a, dirt makes zero sense, should be metal ore
• Brute-Force Refinement - Currently Tier 1b, combination of coal and ore perhaps
• Medical Equipment - Currently Tier 1b, bleach stone would be ideal which would be interesting on certain world types
• Distillation - Currently Tier 2a, slime and ethanol stick out in that particular tech
• Liquid Tuning - Currently Tier 2b, refined metal probably
• Decontamination - Currently Tier 2a, polluted dirt might fit here
• Transit Tubes - Currently Tier 2c, plastic
• All of the art stuff - Things that incur positive decor bonuses, granite earlier and gold later
• Computers - All refined metal

Having a list of 10-20 distinct relevant items for research would make the research tree less about blazing through it all and more about considering what you want to go acquire, it becomes an interesting trade-off that could potentially persist all the way through to near end-game if allowed. There could also be unique creatable items for research, as well as making use of existing ones like microchips.

This is, in a way, similar to the Factorio-esque suggestion, since Factorio research tries to requires items that you will need a lot of. With my list of examples, I've went a similar direction, requiring items that are either tangentially related or directly affected, the latter being plainly obvious in distillation (slime is directly consumed with that tech).

All that said, I think a complete research overhaul would be better as an entirely separate update to the DLC.

[BlackGoat]

I view research as part of the larger management of labor allocation and the 'tech or expand' aspect of gameplay, especially when increased by mods.

I do like the idea of integrating POIs and research at an advanced level though. 

edit: This was a reply to @DarkMaster13's comment, I got sniped by the poster above.