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have you defeated the "hard"bosses of DST?


have you defeated the "hard"bosses of DST?  

143 members have voted

  1. 1. have you defeated ancient fuelweaver legit?

    • yes and i defeated them solo
      51
    • yes and i defeated them with another person
      18
    • yes and i defeated them with a group of people
      15
    • no i haven't even tried them
      49
    • no but i tried them solo
      8
    • no but i tried them with another person
      0
    • no but i tried them with a group of people
      2
  2. 2. have you defeated misery toadstool legit?

    • yes and i defeated them solo
      36
    • yes and i defeated them with another person
      20
    • yes and i defeated them with a group of people
      9
    • no i haven't even tried them
      64
    • no but i tried them solo
      7
    • no but i tried them with another person
      1
    • no but i tried them with a group of people
      6
  3. 3. have you defeated crab king legit?(no ice staff cheese)

    • yes and i defeated them solo
      17
    • yes and i defeated them with another person
      7
    • yes and i defeated them with a group of people
      7
    • no i haven't even tried them
      97
    • no but i tried them solo
      11
    • no but i tried them with another person
      2
    • no but i tried them with a group of people
      2
  4. 4. have you defeated enraged klaus legit?

    • yes and i defeated solo
      16
    • yes and i defeated them with another person
      5
    • yes and i defeated them with a group of people
      5
    • no i haven't even tried them
      98
    • no but i tried them solo
      13
    • no but i tried them with another person
      2
    • no but i tried them with a group of people
      4


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I've fought Crab King using Ice Staves, and it's not easy. You're still actively fighting, and god help you if you mess up the timing and the whole fight ends. If you're fighting solo, I'd argue it doesn't matter what you do so long as you feel satisfied, and if you're fighting in a group, same thing applies as long as people are still having fun. If people want to fight Crab King using Bee Mines, or fight Toadstool with Flingos, let them.

Everyone's got different cheese definitions for sure, but if it's as narrow as "Weapons and Armor Only" then what's next? No Weather Pains for Fuelweaver? No Cobblestone/Magiluminescence for Shadow Pieces? It certainly wouldn't be fun for everyone.

 

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10 minutes ago, Hopeflakes said:

but if it's as narrow as "Weapons and Armor Only" then what's next? No Weather Pains for Fuelweaver? No Cobblestone/Magiluminescence for Shadow Pieces? It certainly wouldn't be fun for everyone.

I don't think anyone actively believes this. It's nice flavor text though.

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9 minutes ago, Hopeflakes said:

I've fought Crab King using Ice Staves, and it's not easy. You're still actively fighting, and god help you if you mess up the timing and the whole fight ends. If you're fighting solo, I'd argue it doesn't matter what you do so long as you feel satisfied, and if you're fighting in a group, same thing applies as long as people are still having fun. If people want to fight Crab King using Bee Mines, or fight Toadstool with Flingos, let them.

Everyone's got different cheese definitions for sure, but if it's as narrow as "Weapons and Armor Only" then what's next? No Weather Pains for Fuelweaver? No Cobblestone/Magiluminescence for Shadow Pieces? It certainly wouldn't be fun for everyone.

 

i just wanted to know how many people defeated crab king without ice staves i personally haven't done that and i do agree fighting crab king with ice staves is still hard 

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15 minutes ago, stranger again said:

i just wanted to know how many people defeated crab king without ice staves i personally haven't done that and i do agree fighting crab king with ice staves is still hard 

It just seems like a weird sticking point. If you don't use ice staves, you just use more and boat kits, since I've never seen (read: on youtube) anyone bother to row the boat out of the way of the attack, since the claws either hold you in place or the attack is too fast. It's even rarer to find someone willing to ignore ice staves without using Wolfgang/Volt Goat Chaud-Froid in the rain.

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3 minutes ago, Hopeflakes said:

It just seems like a weird sticking point. If you don't use ice staves, you just use more and boat kits, since I've never seen (read: on youtube) anyone bother to row the boat out of the way of the attack, since the claws either hold you in place or the attack is too fast. It's even rarer to find someone willing to ignore ice staves without using Wolfgang/Volt Goat Chaud-Froid in the rain.

well thats why i wanted to ask the question.most people use ice staves against crab king (including i)so i wanted to know how many people don't use ice staves against crab king or at least defeated him once without using ice staves 

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2 hours ago, Hopeflakes said:

If people want to fight Crab King using Bee Mines, or fight Toadstool with Flingos, let them.

What is wrong about using Bee Mines, they were designed to be used for fighting. Introducing moving terrain to detonate them easier made them a really good tactic against Crab King especially.

I think the bigger issue (not a problem, because I'm fine with it) in it is that Boats return all 4 Boards used to craft them, so you don't use any resources when you lose your boat by damage.

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1 hour ago, Sapientis said:

What is wrong about using Bee Mines, they were designed to be used for fighting. Introducing moving terrain to detonate them easier made them a really good tactic against Crab King especially.

The problem is that this "tactic" is literal cheese, you don't have to even fight him only activate and aggro him a little. After that, just slap the mines on a boat, break it, and watch the bees kill him for you. I really doubt Crab King being unable to fight bees is an intended feature. That's literally the only mob that Bee Mines have become useful against when that exploit was discovered, and it's pretty a unfair fight for the boss aswell, since he's just standing there doing nothing. You can hardly call it a "tactic", more like an extremely lazy method of defeating him if you have a lot of time on your hands.

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11 minutes ago, bruhmoment23 said:

The problem is that this "tactic" is literal cheese, you don't have to even fight him only activate and aggro him a little. After that, just slap the mines on a boat, break it, and watch the bees kill him for you. I really doubt Crab King being unable to fight bees is an intended future. That's literally the only mob that Bee Mines have become useful against when that exploit was discovered, and it's pretty a unfair fight for the boss aswell, since that he's just standing there doing nothing. You can hardly call it a "tactic", more like an extremely lazy method of defeating him if you have a lot of time on your hands.

I don't see it like that. The game encourages you to find the best way to deal with a problem. Invalidating Bees against Crab King is like invalidating staying in Oasis Desert for Summer: "It's literal cheese. It cancels the whole wildfire mechanic, you don't have to even fight the sandstorm, only fish blueprints for goggles. After that just craft them, wear them and repair so they don't break. [...] You can hardly call it 'tactic', more like an extremely lazy method of surviving summer if you are willing to stay there." You can apply that way of thinking for anything.

Bees are the most effective against enemies without areal attacks, so for example M/Goose, Klaus, Malbatros (he get's it in later phases but bees can amass a lot feathers in first one, as he sheds feathers based on getting hit, not based on health reduction), Krampus, etc. but using Bee Mines against them is too costly to be considered the best method.
Crab King happens to be especially vulnerable because he cannot damage them and the fact it wasn't changed has two possible reasons:

  • Klei entirely forgot Bee Mines exist, which is unlikely
  • Klei is aware Bee Mines are the best method for Crab King and they decided not to change that because their game encourages looking for the best approach to deal with problems, besides Bee Mines aren't considered a good or useful item by the majority of players
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28 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

Invalidating Bees against Crab King is like invalidating staying in Oasis Desert for Summer: "It's literal cheese. It cancels the whole wildfire mechanic

You're comparing something intended to something that clearly isn't.

28 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

Klei is aware Bee Mines are the best method for Crab King and they decided not to change that because their game encourages looking for the best approach to deal with problems, besides Bee Mines aren't considered a good or useful item by the majority of players

So, from your point of view, klei spins a wheel of most useless and forgotten items, and whatever item that wheel picks will become a obscurily easy and cheesy way to kill a boss. Alright. I guess that makes sense, though Meaty Bulbs for cheesing Fuelweaver aren't exactly a weapon. This IS exploiting and cheesing. Bee Mine thing was discovered way in Beta-branch of She Sells Sea Shells update. This logic doesn't apply to every boss, if it did, then every single boss in the game would have an obscurily known, and effortless way of being beaten in similar fashion like Crab King. 

28 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

You can apply that way of thinking for anything.

No you can't, and that's a blatant exaggeration. If everything in this game required you to simply counter every other mechanic with a single item then this wouldn't even be considered a "survival" game. Sure, Eyebrella, Oasis, Caves are a thing, but that doesn't mean everything in this game can be lazily exploited and prevented, even then, you would require enormous prepartion and effort to make it, and there aren't enough exploits to cover "everything" this game has to offer. Throwing a few bees on a boat then watch them bully a "Boss" isn't anything that requires effort or massive brain to pull off. Crab King is considered a "Boss", and you're saying staying safe on a little pancake boat is intended for this type of enemy, this is supposed to be a "boss fight" not a ball pit extravaganza.

Completely nullifying a game mechanic with effort and game knowledge isn't the same as easily exploiting a boss fight with a simple weapon. It isn't intended, and by majority of this games community, it is infact considered cheese. But each to their own i guess.

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3 hours ago, bruhmoment23 said:

You're comparing something intended to something that clearly isn't.

To you. You decide it's not intended and state it is clear, but it in fact uses the item in its intended way. Bee Mines are placed in Fight Tab for a reason: they were designed to be used for fighting. They might be used for distraction but if used to their full potential they can be the only source of damage in a given fight.

Similarly to calling usage of Ice Staves on Crab King "cheese" you try to create false statements. All enemies can be fought with an armour and a weapon, but with enough practice/luck/skill you can manage to dodge every attack. So what? Is kiting cheese because it cancels the ability of an enemy to inflict damage? No, it means kiting is more efficient than tanking. Walling lava pools around is more efficient than killing or freezing Lavae while Dragonfly is hitting you, using Weather Pains is more efficient to clear Woven Shadows than killing them manually.
Most boss enemies in DST have some special tactic that facilitates the fight. For someone unaware of them it might seem unfair or fraudulent, but this is how brains are better than brawn.

Learning what the Achilles' heel of an enemy is lets you take advantage of that. Consider it dirty or unfair, but the game doesn't treat newcomers any better. I bet no one would survive a full year in their first play-through without prior knowledge. DST heavily relies on a fail, learn, overcome scenario.

We had a long discussion here covering that topic with @Shosuko, feel free to check it out.

 

3 hours ago, bruhmoment23 said:

So, from your point of view, klei spins a wheel of most useless and forgotten items, and whatever item that wheel picks will become a obscurily easy and cheesy way to kill a boss. Alright. I guess that makes sense, though Meaty Bulbs for cheesing Fuelweaver aren't exactly a weapon. This IS exploiting and cheesing. Bee Mine thing was discovered way in Beta-branch of She Sells Sea Shells update. This logic doesn't apply to every boss, if it did, then every single boss in the game would have an obscurily known, and effortless way of being beaten in similar fashion like Crab King.

From my point of view they don't consider existing of Bee Mines tactic unhealthy for the game. Some players will consider it cheese and their pride won't allow them to use it, but it gives players who choose to play alone an easier tactic.

Crab King isn't to be considered as hard as people think. He gets much harder when you place Pearl's Pearl inside him, but this harder fight is solely to crack the Pearl. This is why it's not unhealthy for the game to minimize the fight to crafting a couple of Bee Mines and dodge geysers while Bees kill the Boss. After all he's not the final, meaningful enemy. Crab King's unique drop is a blueprint for Strident Trident, a super niche and expensive weapon which doesn't surpass Dark Sword in damage, but gives a special ability which can 50 times mine rocks (a pickaxe can) from range, create leaks in Boats (useful mainly in PvP scenario) and uproot Kelps. That blueprint isn't worth wasting 10 Ice Staves, 40 Boat Patches, 4 Dark Swords, possibly a couple of Weather Pains and other stuff you'd waste while getting it "fair way" with a Pearl socketed. And even then someone can say you "cheesed" the fight because you used Ice Staves to freeze Crab King, so it doesn't count.

Lureplant Bulb blocking is cheese, but the fact that Fuelweaver has no protection from attacks outside the arena when there are no survivors inside it is a huge problem and as I stated before I am first to vote for Klei to fixing it.

Don't mix those two tactics, they are completely different.

And yes, most bosses have a weak spot which lets players take advantage of them. They aren't always well known in the community like walling Lava Pools is, but it also isn't something clear to new players. I actually believe it's more clear for a new player to try to get rid of Lavae by keeping them away with walls than it is for them to use Bee Mines to kill Crab King. Dragonfly is just much older than Crab King and it's easier to find it, so it's obvious tactic against it is well known to most players, but it really comes down to hitting it when it's close and using a Pan Flute when it gets enraged.

 

3 hours ago, bruhmoment23 said:

No you can't, and that's a blatant exaggeration. If everything in this game required you to simply counter every other mechanic with a single item then this wouldn't even be considered a "survival" game. Sure, Eyebrella, Oasis, Caves are a thing, but that doesn't mean everything in this game can be lazily exploited and prevented, even then, you would require enormous prepartion and effort to make it, and there aren't enough exploits to cover "everything" this game has to offer. Throwing a few bees on a boat then watch them bully a "Boss" isn't anything that requires effort or massive brain to pull off.

It is a mere generalization. This game's survival aspect relies on "event - reaction to it" relation. It get's dark - bring some light. It gets cold - get some warmth. It gets warm - cool off. It gets wet - dry off. You get insane - regain sanity or get killed by nightmare creatures. Then you learn that you need to work on how to prevent those events from killing you.

The game throws difficulties and enemies in front of you and independently whether you overcome them or not you learn how to prevent them from killing you in future. It gets problematic when multiple events happen at once and that's what makes this game so hard and frustrating for new players, but also so fun and addictive.

The thing is there are multiple ways of dealing with some of those events, some of them are better, other worse, but you get to choose how to overcome the difficulties. No one will tell you to use Eyebrella over Rain Hat, but it's clear what is better.

Coming up with these reactions "isn't anything that requires effort or massive brain to pull off", but it does require knowledge. Most of reactions we know are learnt from others because we saw them do it or because we experienced the difficulty and found a way to overcome it.

 

3 hours ago, bruhmoment23 said:

Crab King is considered a "Boss", and you're saying staying safe on a little pancake boat is intended for this type of enemy, this is supposed to be a "boss fight" not a ball pit extravaganza.

Completely nullifying a game mechanic with effort and game knowledge isn't the same as easily exploiting a boss fight with a simple weapon. It isn't intended, and by majority of this games community, it is infact considered cheese. But each to their own i guess.

Deerclops is considered a "Boss", and you're saying staying near a little campfire with armour on and hitting her with a weapon is intended for this type of enemy? What do you expect? Pig orchestra and fireworks? It's not a combat simulator.

Fighting Crab King with Bee Mines does require effort, preparation and game knowledge, to even come up with it.

If it wasn't intended upon release it probably is by now, as it was known to developers and they did nothing about it.

And oh dear, if majority's beliefs were changing facts atheists would be so pissed.

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53 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

sure, knowing how to trap bees and how to row, nothing else. Isnt too much effort, preparation a knowledge for a raid boss, one of the most difficult

You have to make enough Bee Mines so he doesn't heal their damage while they are frozen, to make freeze attack less frequent you need to stay close enough so he can attack you with geysers, being vulnerable to geysers requires you to time paddling and new Boat Kits crating and deployment. It still requires some effort and preparation, but knowledge is the most valuable here. You have it, so you diminish it but it's the key to this tactic like with any other boss tactic in DST.

And as I said Crab King is not very difficult. With right set of gems its a 20000 health points stationary enemy with no damaging attack. He has only four abilities and three of them can be canceled with three hits from an Ice Staff:

  • geyser attack can be canceled by freezing him
  • freezing attack can be canceled by freezing him or dodged by walking away
  • healing ability can be canceled by freezing him or nullified with repetitive attacks
  • claws attack usually require to freeze him or additional players to deal with

But the thing is those special attacks have long wind up, giving a lot room for reducing his health and still canceling the effect.

The only time this fight is dangerous or hard is because the player chooses to make it so by adding stronger gems, or wants to crack the Pearl's Pearl, which is completely optional and is a one-time fight.

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11 hours ago, Sapientis said:

You have to make enough Bee Mines so he doesn't heal their damage while they are frozen, to make freeze attack less frequent you need to stay close enough so he can attack you with geysers, being vulnerable to geysers requires you to time paddling and new Boat Kits crating and deployment. It still requires some effort and preparation, but knowledge is the most valuable here. You have it, so you diminish it but it's the key to this tactic like with any other boss tactic in DST.

I don't think you're doing the trick right.

You just row away from the king enough so that he doesn't cast spells, but still close enough that he won't retreat. Bees will murder him and he will never cast a single spell.

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