Are wheezeworts exotic anymore?

[JRup]

Hi!

Browsing different places on the web I've come to see that worts no longer have the limelight they used to have... After all, they were nerfed and I guess the phosphorite errand they generate is not that agreeable for many...

That being said, has anybody made the calculations on what the current heat deletion is? Is it still the same as the wiki says? (12kDTU)

I'm asking for reasons... I'll update with a pic of a build I'm testing soon...

 

[Glassyfo]

2 minutes ago, JRup said:

Hi!

Browsing different places on the web I've come to see that worts no longer have the limelight they used to have... After all, they were nerfed and I guess the phosphorite errand they generate is not that agreeable for many...

That being said, has anybody made the calculations on what the current heat deletion is? Is it still the same as the wiki says? (12kDTU)

I'm asking for reasons... I'll update with a pic of a build I'm testing soon...

 

When farmed it's still 12kDTU in hydrogen. When wild it's now 1/4 that.

[JRup]

Here's the little "pointless" contraption I'd been working on for a bit, just because... Behold, the CO2 vent tamer, vent will spew in about 5 cycles:

Any idea what the deal with "consuming vacuum" is?

[Soulwind]

The consuming vacuum notification is just the way it displays.  I think it's because it sucks up whatever gas it's actually in leaving a little vacuum pocket as it works, hence the notification.  But that's just a theory on my part. 

Question though?  Why tame a CO2 geyser?  Do you have any use for cold CO2?  Heck, I'm usually trying to figure out ways to heat mine up so I can feed it to slicksters and keep them alive (i.e. warm enough to not turn into longhairs).

[mathturtle]

I still occasionally use wheezeworts, but they're not my goto anymore for cooling.  You can use the autosweeper to deliver the phosphorite but it is annoying that dupes will occasionally think they have to do it and reserve the errand even though the sweeper should do it.  The only way to use them is to seal them in so the dupes can't access them anymore.

[JRup]

51 minutes ago, Soulwind said:

Question though?  Why tame a CO2 geyser?

I'm actually stealing all the CO2 from the vent... This one spews at 500C, the geysers are the ones that leak liquid CO2 IIRC...
I'm studying how the 500C CO2 doesn't matter with the scrubbers on a cold side... Also,  I'm seeing additional heat deletion with hot regolith... Seems that only the water temp matters

This map actually has two CO2 vents, the other one is in the oil biome, where it should be.. with the slicksters.

1 hour ago, mathturtle said:

it is annoying that dupes will occasionally think they have to do it and reserve the errand even though the sweeper should do it

Would you say it's as annoying as priority 1 kilns?

[Nebbie]

Wheezeworts post-nerf are similar to how algae terarria are in large-scale bases. They can revitalize an area on the fringes by providing a localized powerless solution to a livability problem, with resources occasionally brought over. Basically, you can unstifle trees that get planted near caustic biomes.
Ultimately it's hardly worth the effort. An AT+ST setup makes wheezeworts look like a joke. They're definitely not "exotic".

[DarkMaster13]

They're great for early game spot cooling.  Such as inside an insulated farm without irrigation or to get an area near 70 C just under.  You can't use a whole bunch of them to solve most end game cooling problems anymore.

[Gurgel]

6 hours ago, JRup said:

Hi!

Browsing different places on the web I've come to see that worts no longer have the limelight they used to have... After all, they were nerfed and I guess the phosphorite errand they generate is not that agreeable for many...

That being said, has anybody made the calculations on what the current heat deletion is? Is it still the same as the wiki says? (12kDTU)

I'm asking for reasons... I'll update with a pic of a build I'm testing soon...

Same when domesticated, 1/4 when wild and needs much more space in groups when wild. I used them extensively before the nerf, but now they may as well just not be in the game anymore. Completely useless to me so far, other solutions are now vastly superior. Especially as they are still rare util (and if) you can get them from space. One of the few overall changes to ONI I do not think was a good idea.

As there are plenty of easier and available alternatives (Ice-E fan for spot-cooling, Cold Slush or Steam Turbine based chiller for larger installations, Nullifiers if you have them), I think the overall impact of the change is not too bad, maybe comparable to the sickness nerf. Yes, I miss the old system, but the current state is still pretty good.

[KittenIsAGeek]

I find them useful when I have them.  They work great for small-scale problems.  For example, planting one between my research stations gives a bit of decor and counters the heat from the super computer.  The problem comes when you try to do larger-scale cooling.  It CAN be done, but you have to use auto-sweepers to 1) Keep the cooling constant, 2) Prevent your dupes from wasting time running half-way across the map, and/or 3) Want to completely seal the room off.  Since the general idea with Wheezewarts was a power-free solution for cooling, adding an autosweeper to keep them fertilized seems a bit wrong.

I also agree with @Gurgel, there are easier alternatives.  However, I do still use them when I have them -- but mostly its for light cooling.

Lately I've been playing maps that don't have native wheezewarts anyway, even though they would be extremely useful.  For example, in my current map, I only had to cool my starting biome by 2c in order to grow food.  I had plenty of phosphor, but exactly zero frozen biomes.  A wheezewart would have been a perfect solution, but alas, I had none.

[Gurgel]

5 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I also agree with @Gurgel, there are easier alternatives.  However, I do still use them when I have them -- but mostly its for light cooling.

Lately I've been playing maps that don't have native wheezewarts anyway, even though they would be extremely useful.  For example, in my current map, I only had to cool my starting biome by 2c in order to grow food.  I had plenty of phosphor, but exactly zero frozen biomes.  A wheezewart would have been a perfect solution, but alas, I had none.

I just did this for about 100 cycles with Ice-E Fans. Since they have no automation, it was a bit annoying. Would have done something with doors, but I eventually just found that a specific number of Ice-Makers gave me pretty much exactly what was needed.

[Sx6944]

I still use worts for my SPOM. But besides that I’d prefer AT+ST as long as I have power to spare. 

[Nebbie]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:16 PM, Gurgel said:

... One of the few overall changes to ONI I do not think was a good idea.

As there are plenty of easier and available alternatives (Ice-E fan for spot-cooling, Cold Slush or Steam Turbine based chiller for larger installations, Nullifiers if you have them), I think the overall impact of the change is not too bad, maybe comparable to the sickness nerf. Yes, I miss the old system, but the current state is still pretty good.

I think it was clever to make them use phosphorite, giving more of a use for Drecko poop. The problem really is that it should've come with a buff of some kind, and ideally a set cooling rate like AETNs instead of SHC-based so that there'd be incentive to actually have them around the base in oxygen. Something that needs base resources but also wants to be sealed in hydrogen makes no sense.

I think Ice Makers got nerfed around the same time and as a result aren't really considered much of a cooling solution anymore; they still work for just moving heat around, but it's a lot of dupe labor, especially paired with Ice-E Fans, for relatively little reward.

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, Nebbie said:

I think it was clever to make them use phosphorite, giving more of a use for Drecko poop. The problem really is that it should've come with a buff of some kind, and ideally a set cooling rate like AETNs instead of SHC-based so that there'd be incentive to actually have them around the base in oxygen. Something that needs base resources but also wants to be sealed in hydrogen makes no sense.

Agreed. As it is, it does not justify making a Drecko-Ranch. If you have one anyways, it is a nice side benefit, but the last one I did may be a year or so ago.

1 hour ago, Nebbie said:

I think Ice Makers got nerfed around the same time and as a result aren't really considered much of a cooling solution anymore; they still work for just moving heat around, but it's a lot of dupe labor, especially paired with Ice-E Fans, for relatively little reward.

They are an option for temporary getting farming to work. But that is basically it. And it only works if your dirt or water is not too warm as it comes in. Basically a stop-gap. WWs used to be a permanent solution, but now you need to Drecko Ranch for that. 

That said, the goal of "permanent solutions" I set myself is artificial. If there is Phosphorite for 1000 cycles on the map, I consider that "temporary". For anybody that does time-limited colonies, mined Phosporite and WWs may be perfectly acceptable as a long-term solution.

[KittenIsAGeek]

3 hours ago, Nebbie said:

there'd be incentive to actually have them around the base in oxygen.

That's pretty much the only way I use them.  Sure, I can get MORE cooling out of them if they're in Hydrogen, but I don't really need that.  I just need a touch of cooling in certain places to off-set the heat generated by dupe activity within my base. Some examples: Near the cooking station, next to the super computer, above or beside the bathroom loop's water sieve...

For industrial tasks, such as cooling generators or oxygen production, I will usually use an aquatuner.  I still like Wheezewarts for small, spot-cooling within my base -- and that means using them in an oxygen environment.  They do just fine as they are; hydrogen not required.

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

WWs used to be a permanent solution, but now you need to Drecko Ranch for that.

I suppose it depends on your world.  On my current map I've got 13 tons of phosphorite -- and I haven't even left my starting biome yet.  1000 cycles down the road I may need to re-evaluate, but that's a long ways off for me.

[Gurgel]

45 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I suppose it depends on your world.  On my current map I've got 13 tons of phosphorite -- and I haven't even left my starting biome yet.  1000 cycles down the road I may need to re-evaluate, but that's a long ways off for me.

As I said, I am usually going for "permanent". At the end, I want to have my colony fully set-up for infinity. There is no need to play that way, I just think of this as my personal final goal in ONI.

[Nebbie]

9 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

...

I suppose it depends on your world.  On my current map I've got 13 tons of phosphorite -- and I haven't even left my starting biome yet.  1000 cycles down the road I may need to re-evaluate, but that's a long ways off for me.

2 Dreckos can supply exactly 5 WWs, 8 Dreckos fit in a ranch. A Drecko ranch only requires Grooming Station dupe labor if you do wild Mealwood or some Balm Lilies (so a bit over a quarter of a dupe's labor per cycle).
If you've got less than 20 WWs, you really shouldn't ever worry unless you're also for whatever reason bothering with making fertilizer (does anyone do this?).

[JRup]

I'm doing a fairly run of the mill play with "Try mostly everything" as the base's motto... "Mostly" has gone as far as not seeing the point in hand sanitizers and ore scrubbers... Ice-e fan goes brr...
 

Thanks @Nebbie for the numbers on the drecko/phosporite/ww consumption...

Update on the "CO2 tamer" ... It's fairly stable, though I might have to wall a little between the wood burner and the vent itself... fwiw, the temp creep is rather slow so I'll just keep on eye on it for now.

[Steve8]

They are still useful for some things. They just aren't the go to solution for industrial cooling anymore, which is very good. They just shouldn't be a replaced for steam turbines and such

I use them for certain hotspots until the mid game. Like next to rust deoxidizers. Or when I open a caustic biome close by, a wheezewort can control the hot air drifting in. Next to a water sieve can be good. Another must have for me is in my drecko stable to counteract the heat from the dreckos and prevent the mealwood from being stifled.

[JRup]

Update:

TL;DR: wort cooled CO2 tamer makes polluted dirt from hot regolith.

The worts have successfully kept the wood burner and battery shown in the screenshot cool enough to survive the full eruption cycle and the vent is now dormant again, so I'd call that a success. The battery and wood burner reached about 110C tops, if we include the actual heat contribution from the vent it's not half bad... So yeah, the whole purpose was trying out the gas teleporting effect with something different to deodorizers... then the whole setup needed power and the wood burner is 2x2 and fit neatly.. the added CO2 is a bonus.

Time to remodel a bit, set up shipping and keep the projects rolling.