Using a very early metal volcano for the actual metal

[Crapgame]

(Quarantine brought me to ONI so be warned that I'm just a beginner.)

I discovered a gold volcano before 30th cycle.  I want to use this for the refined metal.

I've searched for examples but all of them involve robots, whizbangs, and conveyor belts.  None of which I have.

So, I dug out a pool of PW just above it and basically put the volcano in a baby pool.

Gold comes out hot but it doesn't heat the water or cause any other ill effects (that I can tell) and in a few minutes the gold is down to below 100 degrees.  I just send in dupes to get it.  The walls don't get hot.  There's even a pacu stuck in there and his temp is 31 degrees.

Am I missing something here?  I realize that the complicated builds are for automation and possibly steam power but I really just want the thing to give me metal (and spare me the metal refinery) then why wouldn't this solution work?

It may seem like I answered my own question but what I'm asking is if I am missing out on something by dumbing it down this way.\

Thanks.

[zergologist]

Use your newfound volcano wisely. As far as I can tell, try not to get it too hot, or at least use the coolest volcano to make the ice biome melt. Which world are you playing on?

[Nitroturtle]

It will eventually heat up and boil the water, but it'll take quite awhile.  Gold volcanos have the least heat energy out of the metal volcanos, which makes them easy to harvest in this manner for awhile before a more refined solution can be put in place.

[Crapgame]

39 minutes ago, Xenologist said:

Use your newfound volcano wisely.

That's what I'm trying to do!

39 minutes ago, Xenologist said:

As far as I can tell, try not to get it too hot, or at least use the coolest volcano to make the ice biome melt. Which world are you playing on?

I'm on Terra (like I said, I'm a newbie).  I haven't even ventured into the Ice biome but it is really close.

What do you mean by "try not to get it too hot?"  Does it get hotter?  It seems to cool back down after every eruption and that is with zero intervention other than the pool of water it is sitting in.

24 minutes ago, Nitroturtle said:

It will eventually heat up and boil the water, but it'll take quite awhile.  Gold volcanos have the least heat energy out of the metal volcanos, which makes them easy to harvest in this manner for awhile before a more refined solution can be put in place.

This is the type of info I was looking for.  So, even though it is not boiling now it will at some point?

There must be a gradual increase in the water temp that I'm not noticing.  Perhaps if I circulate that around a little it may stay at a constant.  There is another gigantic pool of PW near by.  I can always just circulate the water in there.

I am going to bling the hell out of this base.  Gold toilets for everyone!

 

[Neotuck]

Can you take some screenshots?  It will help the ONI community offer advise and build ideas to help you

A picture can be worth a thousand words

[Nitroturtle]

2 minutes ago, Crapgame said:

There must be a gradual increase in the water temp that I'm not noticing.  Perhaps if I circulate that around a little it may stay at a constant.  There is another gigantic pool of PW near by.  I can always just circulate the water in there.

My current base that I'm playing, I used a small pwater pool in the same way for ~300 cycles before building an actual enclosure to handle it automatically.  I also dumped a large amount of ice from a cleared out cold biome into the pool of water, so that helped as well.  If you add ice, just make sure you have room for the water once it starts to melt.

[beowulf2010]

8 minutes ago, Crapgame said:

There must be a gradual increase in the water temp that I'm not noticing.  Perhaps if I circulate that around a little it may stay at a constant.  There is another gigantic pool of PW near by.  I can always just circulate the water in there.

Yep. The reason you're not noticing it yet is gold holds significantly less heat energy than any of the 4 types of water (polluted, normal, salt and brine). 

If the masses were the same (and they aren't, more later) gold would cool off by over 32 degrees for every degree the water heats up.

Then, you have to realize the difference in mass between what a gold volcano puts out. The gold volcano on my current map erupts 11.5kg per second for 41 seconds. That's a whole 471.5kg per eruption. Depending on the size of the pool you flooded the volcano with, you could have upwards of 30,000kg of water sucking up all that heat. 

If my napkin math is correct, my volcano erupting into a 30,000kg pool of water would increase the temp of the water a whole 1.8 degrees per eruption. And this is ignoring debris in and tiles adjacent to the water. 

[suxkar]

An iron or copper volcano would boil the water very quickly, but for gold you are probably ok for a long while, as was discussed.
In one of my playthrough i kept a gold volcano in a baby pool cooled entirely by a cool slush gayser output

[Crapgame]

1 hour ago, Neotuck said:

Can you take some screenshots?  It will help the ONI community offer advise and build ideas to help you

A picture can be worth a thousand words

 

I had to go back and do it again to get all the data.

Start with #2:  Here you see the gold at 923C.

#3: Last temp before the bath, 836C

#1: After the flooding: (I realize that leaving the other debris down there is slowing things up but as I said this was a replication so I'm cutting corners.)  2 cycles later, down to 325C.  PW is still at 31C.  Had to take this now because she was going to erupt.

#4: Mid eruption.  Liquid gold at 2626C

#5: This is a wider view so you can see the proximity to the ice biome.

#6: Temp overlay showing gold below 100C and the PW a few degrees warmer.  The pacu doesn't mind at all.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that those are plain sandstone tiles and ladders.  They did fine.

[nakomaru]

Not only is your pool absorbing the heat energy, your entire biome is. Eventually you will want an answer, but as you have found, you don't need to rush too much.

If you are building directly from the gold, it also caps the temperature to 45C even if the material was 500C saving you a lot of trouble.

[Crapgame]

18 minutes ago, nakomaru said:

Not only is your pool absorbing the heat energy, your entire biome is. Eventually you will want an answer, but as you have found, you don't need to rush too much.

If you are building directly from the gold, it also caps the temperature to 45C even if the material was 500C saving you a lot of trouble.

As I have found!  However, the gold that I had in my storage is just 67C (highlighted in image) and it's not really doing much heating even after 10ish cycles.  However, I can see the heat coming off that volcano and drifting towards the ice biome.  It doesn't seem to be coming into my space which is great.  I can wall it off whenever, I'm just so busy digging that I haven't stopped.

 

P.S. No one has gotten gold toilets yet.  I am working on conductive wiring the whole joint.  They will continue to use buckets until further notice.

[PIRATE D KING]

8 hours ago, Crapgame said:

(Quarantine brought me to ONI so be warned that I'm just a beginner.)

I discovered a gold volcano before 30th cycle.  I want to use this for the refined metal.

I've searched for examples but all of them involve robots, whizbangs, and conveyor belts.  None of which I have.

So, I dug out a pool of PW just above it and basically put the volcano in a baby pool.

Gold comes out hot but it doesn't heat the water or cause any other ill effects (that I can tell) and in a few minutes the gold is down to below 100 degrees.  I just send in dupes to get it.  The walls don't get hot.  There's even a pacu stuck in there and his temp is 31 degrees.

Am I missing something here?  I realize that the complicated builds are for automation and possibly steam power but I really just want the thing to give me metal (and spare me the metal refinery) then why wouldn't this solution work?

It may seem like I answered my own question but what I'm asking is if I am missing out on something by dumbing it down this way.\

Thanks.

this is my set up:

since you are in early game there are several thing to consider in this pic:

-water has 32.4 times a bigger heat capacity than water, wich means that you will lose 32.4 degrees in the gold temperature to raise the water temperature 1 degree, but it does rise to the desired point over many cycles

-the vacuum around the volcano is not a must but it will preserve your steam temperature while also not heat up your biome, you can implement it in early game

- you can save yourself the oil i put there and just put water.

- you dont need an access to the steam chamber, just you set it up properly at the first go, actually you need to close it up otherwise your dupes will try to pick the gold and bring it back to your storages

- you rly rly want to rush to your closest cold biome, and grab some wheezewort otherwise the steam turbine will overheat, you could try to cool it with its on output but it will run horribly inconsistently, or maybe a hydrogen cooling loop to the cold biome next to it?

 

18 minutes ago, Crapgame said:

As I have found!  However, the gold that I had in my storage is just 67C (highlighted in image) and it's not really doing much heating even after 10ish cycles.  However, I can see the heat coming off that volcano and drifting towards the ice biome.  It doesn't seem to be coming into my space which is great.  I can wall it off whenever, I'm just so busy digging that I haven't stopped.

 

P.S. No one has gotten gold toilets yet.  I am working on conductive wiring the whole joint.  They will continue to use buckets until further notice.

- oxygen has 7.8 time more specific heat capacity than gold, wich is why you are not noticing the heat now but it will build over time.

-the cold biome is separated with abyssalyte wich has 0 thermal conductivity wich means that heat will never be absorbed by it as it currently is, not even a bit.

- i would close this up asap, by the time your base reaches 30+ degrees your will strugle with food (unless you go hardcore ranching)

[Crapgame]

2 hours ago, PIRATE D KING said:

- i would close this up asap, by the time your base reaches 30+ degrees your will strugle with food (unless you go hardcore ranching)

Thanks for this.  While temps were not concerning, I could see them creeping up.  I had already taken some 5000kg of gold out of this thing which would be more than enough to pimp out the base.

I ended up sealing the whole thing off with insulated tiles.  Next dormancy period is in 10 cycles.  I'm going to jump back in there with some kind of temp regulation by then.  The printer has already gifted me with 3 worts!! (That's probably why I've only taken 3 dupes.)

[PIRATE D KING]

1 hour ago, Crapgame said:

Thanks for this.  While temps were not concerning, I could see them creeping up.  I had already taken some 5000kg of gold out of this thing which would be more than enough to pimp out the base.

I ended up sealing the whole thing off with insulated tiles.  Next dormancy period is in 10 cycles.  I'm going to jump back in there with some kind of temp regulation by then.  The printer has already gifted me with 3 worts!! (That's probably why I've only taken 3 dupes.)

2 worts is enough to keep it working, even if the temp goes to like 60 degrees in the active phase of the volcano when its inactive it will go back down, you will absorb a bit of heat using a water lock to keep the upper rom accessible to feed the worts, but once you have access to visco gel you can make perfect vauum all around it as in the pic

before you seal it i would empty it before its active again, or you will have to deal with lots of steam next time you open it, and place a door in the inner layer of the enclosure to make sure dupes dont go hoard that hot gold the moment you try to access it.

[Gurgel]

On 3/24/2020 at 7:39 PM, Crapgame said:

Am I missing something here?  I realize that the complicated builds are for automation and possibly steam power but I really just want the thing to give me metal (and spare me the metal refinery) then why wouldn't this solution work?

Nope, that is pretty much what I do as well. The complicated builds are over-optimized IMO, KISS is still the king of all engineering. One thing: You will have to replace the water as it heats up, so plan to either pump it away (probably into space) or add a door-crusher, both with thermal control (or manual control before you have that).

[Crapgame]

Yep.  I'm at 85 and still flush with gold.  I actually drained it dry and I'm watching the gold pile up in there.  When it's time I will run water in to cool it down, fill up my storage with gold, drain it again, wait, rinse, repeat.