water gysters and vents tier list?

[meepmoop]

I know there were previous threads on a similar question. however, both opinions and the game itself change through time.

What is you personal water gyster tier list?

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I like polluted water vent and regular water gysters. They both have high amounts of average yields, and both are easly usable for electrolyzer and bristle berries.

After them, cool slush is good. you can use the water for cooling and after that easily clean it with sleeve. It doesn't provide as big of a yield but it has the advantage of also being used for cooling.

After that im not sure. Salt water has nice yields, but you need to both distill it and have cooling it. And while its easier to convert cool steam vents to water, they provide a smaller yield.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Ixenzo]

I'd say the same. I never bother with cool steam and salt ones, too much trouble. PW is universal and easy to handle.

[Gurgel]

Best is cold slush as cooling is a constant issue in Oni while heat is easy to get. Then Pwater. Best in combination, as mixing any desired temperature between -10C and 30C becomes dead easy. 

I rarely bother with the others at all, no need, unless there are no pwater or cold slush. I once did a Oassisse map completely on a salt water geyser for cooling and oxygen. Not difficult, just tedious.  

[psusi]

In my previous worlds I only ever had cool steam for water.  Now I have a pwater vent and it's pretty much providing more water than I think I could ever use.  I am still tapping one of the cool steam vents to send the hot water to the oil well ( may as well use hot water for that and I'm using the heat from cooling the steam to melt an ice biome anyhow ).  I also have 3 salt water vents I'm not using ( tried using one and had heat problems so I started over and found the pwater and that worked much better ) and another untapped cool steam.  I imagine a slush vent would also be quite nice, but I'm not sure it would beat the pwater due to the lower volume.  Plain water is still 95 C so almost as bad as cool steam in terms of having to cool it, though it does provide more volume.

[KILLABUDZ]

Metal volcanos are nice, valuable output and quite a lot of power as a side product.
Natgas requires no processing and converts to power and pwater.
CSVs can be tamed pretty easily to output any temp under their own power, you can even use a CSV to liquefy hydrogen if you use high end mats.
 

[PhailRaptor]

In the past I'd have said NatGas was amazing, since you received basically free power and some Polluted Water.  However, the output seems to have been reduced substantially.  Used to be you'd get a high enough NatGas to run 2, sometimes 3 NatGas Gens.  Now, you're getting just under the amount needed to run a single Generator.

[psusi]

1 hour ago, KILLABUDZ said:

Metal volcanos are nice, valuable output and quite a lot of power as a side product.

I discovered that I have a gold and iron volcano the other day and was going to use them to cook oil to petrol, but I did the math and because the mass is so low, there just isn't hardly any heat there.  I think I figured it would produce like 6 watts on average via steam turbine.

1 hour ago, KILLABUDZ said:

Natgas requires no processing and converts to power and pwater.

You do have to cool the gas.  It isn't very hard, but that is some processing.

1 hour ago, KILLABUDZ said:

CSVs can be tamed pretty easily to output any temp under their own power, you can even use a CSV to liquefy hydrogen if you use high end mats.

What are you talking about?  You have to put in power to cool the steam.  A hot steam vent produces power, but a cool one does not.

20 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said:

In the past I'd have said NatGas was amazing, since you received basically free power and some Polluted Water.  However, the output seems to have been reduced substantially.  Used to be you'd get a high enough NatGas to run 2, sometimes 3 NatGas Gens.  Now, you're getting just under the amount needed to run a single Generator.

I don't think they have been changed.  I used to ( before rocketry upgrade ) run 2-3 gens off of them, but they were throttled to only run when needed, so most of the time they weren't running.  Especially when the vent went dormant, then I'd fire up the coal gen to stretch the supply of stored NG until the vent went active again.

[Gurgel]

9 minutes ago, psusi said:

You do have to cool the gas.  It isn't very hard, but that is some processing.

Not really. Make everything from steel, insulate the whole thing and you have a nice, self-contained power generator:

Tanks are calculated so that there is enough stored gas to run the generator without pause when the vent becomes dormant. That only works if it outputs at least 90g/sec overall, obviously. If it outputs more, you can usually drive a gas-range in addition. 

[KILLABUDZ]

8 minutes ago, psusi said:

What are you talking about?  You have to put in power to cool the steam.  A hot steam vent produces power, but a cool one does not.

 

[PhailRaptor]

37 minutes ago, psusi said:

I don't think they have been changed.  I used to ( before rocketry upgrade ) run 2-3 gens off of them, but they were throttled to only run when needed, so most of the time they weren't running.  Especially when the vent went dormant, then I'd fire up the coal gen to stretch the supply of stored NG until the vent went active again.

I can tell you that their output was absolutely nerfed when they did that Geyser rebalance pass.  After adjusting to take inactivity into account, old NatGas Vents would produce ~200 g/s.  Now, you're lucky if it actually makes the 90 g/s you need for a 100% uptime NatGas Gen.  And now we also need to feed the Gas Stove for high tier cooking, which we did not need to before.

[psusi]

4 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Not really. Make everything from steel, insulate the whole thing and you have a nice, self-contained power generator:

Tanks are calculated so that there is enough stored gas to run the generator without pause when the vent becomes dormant. That only works if it outputs at least 90g/sec overall, obviously. If it outputs more, you can usually drive a gas-range in addition. 

Ummm.... no?  The gas comes out at 150 C.  Unless you already have steel and don't mind the pwater coming out of the generator instantly boiling to steam, then you need to cool it first to at least < 100 C so you can use a gold pump to send it to a generator and get pwater rather than steam as output.   Preferably cool it to under 40 C so you don't get hot pwater out of the generator, which is harder to cool than the NG.  It used to be that you only had to get it down to < 125 so you could use a gold amalgam pump but now that the input temperature matters rather than the building temperature, you have to get it under 40 C to minimize the heat generated when converting to pwater.

[Gurgel]

13 minutes ago, psusi said:

Ummm.... no?  The gas comes out at 150 C.  Unless you already have steel and don't mind the pwater coming out of the generator instantly boiling to steam, then you need to cool it first to at least < 100 C so you can use a gold pump to send it to a generator and get pwater rather than steam as output.   Preferably cool it to under 40 C so you don't get hot pwater out of the generator, which is harder to cool than the NG.  It used to be that you only had to get it down to < 125 so you could use a gold amalgam pump but now that the input temperature matters rather than the building temperature, you have to get it under 40 C to minimize the heat generated when converting to pwater.

Well, I said it needs steel, didn't I? The pump, the tanks and the generator need to be steel.

Apart from that, this has worked now for > 1000 cycles in several different configurations. No need for any cooling. The pwater initially is liquid (that is why there are two crushers, the lower one deals with the water until things heat up), but eventually you have all steam (and CO2). But that does _not_ cause any problems. Eventually, you get some buildup of dirt under the generator, but I expect that this will take 100'000 cycles or so until you need to do anything about it.

[Dosephshih]

Polluted water vent is so easy and convenient to use.

But I think the Cool steam vent is the most common one to encounter in most map. Usually I would put a looping water to ensure the steam cooling down to water drops. and the looping water will be cooled by aquatuners with turbines.

Just feeling tedious to setup similar things repeatedly. Anyone have simple and efficient setup to tame a cool steam vent?

[Ixenzo]

8 hours ago, psusi said:

You do have to cool the gas.

One steel gas pump in the geyser extractor, one steel pump in the infinite storage. Gens are cooled by their own PW output; they won't last forever in an insulated environment, but will if a) not insulated from the surroundings, and/or  b) cooled by petroleum gens' PW output. Back when wheezes didn't require fertilization, capture was considerably easier - stick one wheeze in the chamber and forget. It would pump the NG out into the infinite storage by itself and cool it in the process.

Btw, cooling 90 g/s of NG from 150 to 40 requires 1.8 wheezes with 15 g/s phosphorite or 7.2 unfertilized, or 0.3 AETN with 3 g/s hydrogen fed in and 1W of pump power. You could transport the gas in granite pipes to achieve this cooling and the map won't be affected.

[psusi]

10 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Apart from that, this has worked now for > 1000 cycles in several different configurations. No need for any cooling. The pwater initially is liquid (that is why there are two crushers, the lower one deals with the water until things heat up), but eventually you have all steam (and CO2). But that does _not_ cause any problems. Eventually, you get some buildup of dirt under the generator, but I expect that this will take 100'000 cycles or so until you need to do anything about it.

Oh, so you are just destroying the water/steam instead of trying to recover it?  I suppose that works.

6 hours ago, Ixenzo said:

Gens are cooled by their own PW output

If the gas going into the gen is 150 C then the output will be steam at 150 C.  I suppose that will keep the generator from going over that temperature which steel can handle, but If you want to use the water coming out of the generator then you need to cool the gas down to 40 C before burning it since that is easier than cooling the hot water/steam.

6 hours ago, Ixenzo said:

b) cooled by petroleum gens' PW output.

You have to keep the petrol gen itself cool so that the water coming out of it is only 40 C. 

[Ixenzo]

1 hour ago, psusi said:

If the gas going into the gen is 150 C then the output will be steam at 150 C

I've never encountered this in my entire playtime so I went and sandboxed an experiment using both petroleum and NG gens in the same insulated closed off room that started in a vacuum, and fed in 150C inputs. You're damn right.

I just don't insulate the generator block and I've never had copper NG gens even come close to overheating when feeding them 120-145C gas. Their temp averages a few degrees above ambient biome temp.

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, psusi said:

Oh, so you are just destroying the water/steam instead of trying to recover it?  I suppose that works.

Well, I called this thing "self contained" and the screenshot shows pretty clearly that the only thing coming out is a power-line. This is a "build and forget" type of thing.

If you really insist in "using" the minuscule amount of pwater coming out (22.5g.sec, enough to keep 0.2 dupes breathing, i.e. basically nothing) then you may indeed need to cool things. You will probably invest quite a bit more into that cooling than you get out of it though.

[psusi]

35 minutes ago, Ixenzo said:

I've never encountered this in my entire playtime so I went and sandboxed an experiment using both petroleum and NG gens in the same insulated closed off room that started in a vacuum, and fed in 150C inputs. You're damn right.

I just don't insulate the generator block and I've never had copper NG gens even come close to overheating when feeding them 120-145C gas. Their temp averages a few degrees above ambient biome temp.

Well yea, if you don't insulate the pipes then the gas is just going to bleed the heat into the environment naturally, and as long as you keep it cool, then the pwater coming out of the generator won't be too hot.  Just building the walls around the vent out of not insulated tile will get the gas cooled down to ambient just fine.  After enough cycles though the heat is going to become a problem so you will need some active cooling.

 

[Ixenzo]

11 minutes ago, psusi said:

if you don't insulate the pipes

I always use insulated igneous for all generator input. What I meant by not insulated is not using insulated tiles when building the brick's walls or even leaving natural tiles if present if I don't care enough about the resources in those tiles.

As for the map heating up, I couldn't care less. I insulate the living quarters and heat-sensitive setups like turbines and the rest of the map could be 100C for all I care. But it never has been.

[KILLABUDZ]

On 1/2/2020 at 3:33 PM, Dosephshih said:

Anyone have simple and efficient setup to tame a cool steam vent?

I posted a link to one above. It is a scalable design, the efficiency goes up with better mats. There are a few variations but its essentially the same process.

[Dosephshih]

10 minutes ago, KILLABUDZ said:

I posted a link to one above. It is a scalable design, the efficiency goes up with better mats. There are a few variations but its essentially the same process.

Thank you! I checked that already, just thinking it is too complicated to repeat several time in a map, as i got 3 cool steam vent in my map.

My target is just to ensure the steam cool down to water for input of electrolysor.

[KILLABUDZ]

1 minute ago, Dosephshih said:

it is too complicated to repeat several time in a map

This is the early game version.

[DarkMaster13]

I feel the problem with a lot of the water sources is that the game is just too liberal with them.  You only need to tap one or two of them most of the time.  Three if you're using especially water hungry builds.  However, most maps are guaranteed 3 water geysers and a big chunk of your random geysers/vents/volcanoes are also going to be more water sources (6/19 geyser types are water).  So you have an abundance of resources you don't need and often have the luxury of choosing to use whichever you prefer.

I'm not particularly happy with how they are at the moment because so many of the geysers are just not stuff you want/need.  Chlorine, O2, and CO2 being the worst offenders for terrible geysers producing resources you don't need.  Metal volcanoes are also pretty bad to get duplicates of and regular volcanoes are redundant on a map with plenty of geothermal sources already.  Leaky oil fissures don't output enough oil for practical use.

The only two geyser types that are consistently good in almost all circumstances are natural gas and hydrogen vents.  They're both more power / fuel that requires a little bit of setup, but once ready requires no further dupe maintenance or attention from the player.

[KILLABUDZ]

5 hours ago, DarkMaster13 said:

Leaky oil fissures don't output enough oil for practical use.

It isnt a lot of oil, but it comes out nice and hot and in a steady dribble, perfect to make a simple boiler, it takes very little energy to boil it to petrol, making it a fairly cheap way of getting petrol if you can use a magma spike and a mech door as a solenoid for temp tx, or once you get a little space metals a little AT boiler.

[Gurgel]

6 hours ago, DarkMaster13 said:

I'm not particularly happy with how they are at the moment because so many of the geysers are just not stuff you want/need.  Chlorine, O2, and CO2 being the worst offenders for terrible geysers producing resources you don't need. 

Well, Chlorine is nice, because you may need it for drecko ranching. PO2 can be used for producing clay. CO2 is useful for having CO2 available without scrounging it from dupe "exhaust". What I find useless are leaky oil fissures (if I boil oil, I do counter-flow heat exchange and need cool input) , Steam Vents (no use except driving a turbine?) and Iron Volcanoes (takes too much to cool them).