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The building extra mass and ice sculptures


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IIRC, buildings are treated like they have 5x the mass for thermal calculations in order to slow their temperature swings when turned on/off.  Does that apply to ice sculptures as well?  So it's better to make a sculpture to cool an area than just set the 400 kg of ice there?  And on a related note, the wiki implies that a better use of ice for cooling is to build a tempshift plate out of it.  But it lists a table of SHC for tempshift plates and says that ice is only 2.050, which is lower than ice's normal SHC of 4.079.  Because of that, then I would think you would be much better off with an ice sculpture even if it doesn't get the building 5x mass.

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45 minutes ago, psusi said:

IIRC, buildings are treated like they have 5x the mass for thermal calculations in order to slow their temperature swings when turned on/off.  Does that apply to ice sculptures as well?  So it's better to make a sculpture to cool an area than just set the 400 kg of ice there?  And on a related note, the wiki implies that a better use of ice for cooling is to build a tempshift plate out of it.  But it lists a table of SHC for tempshift plates and says that ice is only 2.050, which is lower than ice's normal SHC of 4.079.  Because of that, then I would think you would be much better off with an ice sculpture even if it doesn't get the building 5x mass.

In short, yes. Ice sculptures are better for cooling than just dropping ice as debris or in storage. 

I don't know about the SHC number issue with the tempshift plates you mentioned, but the reason ice tempshift plates are even better than ice sculptures is that they actively look to equalize temperature within the 9 tile area they serve thus they "push" their cold out super quickly. 

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4 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

I don't know about the SHC number issue with the tempshift plates you mentioned, but the reason ice tempshift plates are even better than ice sculptures is that they actively look to equalize temperature within the 9 tile area they serve thus they "push" their cold out super quickly. 

Right, but if the SHC is decreased, then it will cool quickly, but you give up half of the total cooling potential.

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4 minutes ago, psusi said:

Right, but if the SHC is decreased, then it will cool quickly, but you give up half of the total cooling potential.

I'd bet the wiki is wrong. At work so I can't check it in game but I'll bet a tempshift made out of ice will use the proper SHC for ice. 

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54 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

I'd bet the wiki is wrong. At work so I can't check it in game but I'll bet a tempshift made out of ice will use the proper SHC for ice. 

If so then I guess tempshift = fast cooling, sculpture = more efficient cooling.

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2 hours ago, Ixenzo said:

I'm pretty sure the SHC of ice is about 2, just like irl.

Ice tempshifts are indeed pretty good. Getting that 4t ice lootbox is pretty nice.

Oh?  Does it go down when it freezes irl?  I assumed it was still 3.179 like water.  Then I guess the question is, if the sculpture gets the 5x bonus buildings get, does the temp shift plate as well?  If not, then the building bonus makes the sculpture more efficient, but the tempshift faster.

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If you want to cool something quickly, then sculptures and tempshift plates made from ice are great.  If you want to get "all the cool you can" from ice, then leave it to melt naturally.  However, there are a LOT of conditions when doing it that way.  

  1. Digging out a block of ice cuts its mass in half immediately.  If it isn't already dug out, you should melt it in place to get the most "cooling" from it.  Of course, this can be a problem depending on where that ice is found.
  2. Thermal transfer from debris is slow.  Even with tempshift plates behind it. On top of that, building contents are considered insulated now.  Throw a ton of ice into a storage locker at -20c and it'll sit there forever before melting.  Let it drop on the ground and it'll still take dozens of cycles.  Which could be a good thing -- leaving a give of ice at the printer pod can cool a decent area of your base for quite a while before everyone gets wet feet.
  3. A given mass of ice will not melt until the entire mass reaches its melting point.  Ever watch 20 tons of ice suddenly reach the melting point?  Instant flood.
  4. Water moves more heat than ice.  One reason that tempshift plates and ice sculptures work so well is that they quickly turn the ice into 1c water.  This water spills onto the floor and "soaks up" a lot of heat from the area rather quickly.
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13 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Thermal transfer from debris is slow.  Even with tempshift plates behind it. On top of that, building contents are considered insulated now.  Throw a ton of ice into a storage locker at -20c and it'll sit there forever before melting.  Let it drop on the ground and it'll still take dozens of cycles.  Which could be a good thing -- leaving a give of ice at the printer pod can cool a decent area of your base for quite a while before everyone gets wet feet.

Everyone has always said that the game treats things in a storage locker no differently than debris laying on the ground.  I've been storing ice in my water tank inside a storage locker and it doesn't seem to have any problem melting 4000 kg in a dozen or so cycles, so I think this is wrong.

13 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

Water moves more heat than ice.  One reason that tempshift plates and ice sculptures work so well is that they quickly turn the ice into 1c water.  This water spills onto the floor and "soaks up" a lot of heat from the area rather quickly.

Good point.

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1 hour ago, psusi said:

What does that do?  And what happens when it melts? ;)

It transfers heat much more quickly, doesn't have the building penalty, and doesn't cause performance problems like rails.

If you trap it ordinarily, it will exit on the top:

5.thumb.gif.5a065622f7d455af1939fa34050b9c68.gif

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12 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

Then you've crushed whatever was in the door and it's gone. 

Even if you didn't have solid tiles blocking the sides of the door? i.e. will it squirt out the sides or bottom if it can or is it only the top?

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The debris follows certain rules as to where it will be displaced within the door or if it will be moved outside. A single door setup with mesh on the bottom would trap the water on the top without deleting it for me. But depending on your design, you can have it eject wherever you want.

5.thumb.gif.896d5851fd1e83b21f28e5bf79c5811a.gif

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