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Magma Steam Power Generation - NOT RECOMMENDED


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32 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

Because I like starting new bases and cleaning up things like your steam room takes more time than I like to spend on failed experiments. :D

Hummm thing is even if i start again and try do it again i will face the exact same difficulties. So i find it better to find out a way to overcome this situation, not that i am aware of one till now.

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There was an easy solution, build everything in a vacuum.  Plus, you still have natural tiles conducting heat from your magma to the co2.1.thumb.png.b3c62d5b67e6db6b562dc1ead23cab98.png.69a0e0d272779d0e8d7ea873e23232b1.png

All of these tiles should be insulated.

I also suggest building a few turbines.  You can build these right at the top, outside the steam zone, then replace the flooring of it when it's ready to run. Dripping the steam back into the chamber would probably be quicker at cooling it down.

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27 minutes ago, Craigjw said:

There was an easy solution, build everything in a vacuum.  Plus, you still have natural tiles conducting heat from your magma to the co2.1.thumb.png.b3c62d5b67e6db6b562dc1ead23cab98.png.69a0e0d272779d0e8d7ea873e23232b1.png

All of these tiles should be insulated.

I also suggest building a few turbines.  You can build these right at the top, outside the steam zone, then replace the flooring of it when it's ready to run. Dripping the steam back into the chamber would probably be quicker at cooling it down.

Not that I didn't have enough problems with phase 2, now the phase 1 is gone. Magma solidified. Any ideas on how to prevent this or make it work?

Also, about phase 2, I'm not sure on how do pretend to create vaccum in it, since I can't pump (over 20kg of pressure, so the vents won't work, over 900oC of temp, so even termite will break).

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16 minutes ago, Craigjw said:

Those solidified tiles are why I suggested digging out the surrounding rocks in the lava.

I think they solidified because the 2 metal tiles exchanged heat with the steam chamber, so they loose temp and so did the magma, got colder, and then solidified. Also I'm not sure which rocks exactly you said to dig out. I think we need to figure out how to overcome these problems as so to have a good, informative, thread, that who wants to use magma steam power can rely on. I am at my limits here, I don't have that much experience to come out with plenty of solutions.

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3 hours ago, gaucho_tche said:

Hummm thing is even if i start again and try do it again i will face the exact same difficulties. So i find it better to find out a way to overcome this situation, not that i am aware of one till now.

OK. If you're going to fix it, there is one important thing you need to do before you can begin to think about rebuilding. 

Goal) Get this area, both the steam filled room and the area surrounding your build, to be a vacuum. 

Step one: Create a vacuum barrier at the bottom of the steam filled room so that you are no longer pulling heat into the room. You can do this by using corner building techniques. I can post a quick how to when I get home. It is a pain to do  and time consuming as you have to build 2 tiles, destroy 1, build 2 more, destroy one more, etc. 

Step two: Cool the room to the point where you can pump the CO2. You will do this by using steam turbines and returning the water to the room. Once the overall temperature is down to where you can pump the CO2, go to step 3.

Step 3: Get rid of all the steam so that you don't break pipes when the steam condenses in your air piping. You will accomplish this by sending the water from the steam turbines somewhere else instead of back into the steam room. At some point there will be minimal or no steam left in the room. If there is a little steam left, you'll have to put in some sort of temporary cooling loop to condense the last of the steam. 

Step 4: Once all steam is gone, hook up air pumps and get rid of all the CO2 so you have a vacuum. 

While you are doing this, build another vacuum room around this area so that you can work freely in complete vacuum. Magma is completely safe to work with in a vacuum. 

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10 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

OK. If you're going to fix it, there is one important thing you need to do before you can begin to think about rebuilding. 

Goal) Get this area, both the steam filled room and the area surrounding your build, to be a vacuum. 

Step one: Create a vacuum barrier at the bottom of the steam filled room so that you are no longer pulling heat into the room. You can do this by using corner building techniques. I can post a quick how to when I get home. It is a pain to do  and time consuming as you have to build 2 tiles, destroy 1, build 2 more, destroy one more, etc. 

Step two: Cool the room to the point where you can pump the CO2. You will do this by using steam turbines and returning the water to the room. Once the overall temperature is down to where you can pump the CO2, go to step 3.

Step 3: Get rid of all the steam so that you don't break pipes when the steam condenses in your air piping. You will accomplish this by sending the water from the steam turbines somewhere else instead of back into the steam room. At some point there will be minimal or no steam left in the room. If there is a little steam left, you'll have to put in some sort of temporary cooling loop to condense the last of the steam. 

Step 4: Once all steam is gone, hook up air pumps and get rid of all the CO2 so you have a vacuum. 

While you are doing this, build another vacuum room around this area so that you can work freely in complete vacuum. Magma is completely safe to work with in a vacuum. 

Nice, I will wait for the vaccum how to. But another situation has come. The solidifying magma because of the heat stolen by the metal tiles in touch with it.

And 2) where will i pump the co2 in the last step since i have 20kg+ of pressure everywhere?

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45 minutes ago, gaucho_tche said:

There's no void, all have a pressure of over 20kg, so the pumps won't work.

All vanilla maps have a vacuum on the surface. Any gases pumped up there will eventually go away.

Another option is to use a door crusher. Make a corridor, fill the entire space with doors, let the gas flow in and close the outside doors. Then close the inside doors. The gas inside will get crushed, destroying it.

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26 minutes ago, bobucles said:

All vanilla maps have a vacuum on the surface. Any gases pumped up there will eventually go away.

Another option is to use a door crusher. Make a corridor, fill the entire space with doors, let the gas flow in and close the outside doors. Then close the inside doors. The gas inside will get crushed, destroying it.

Or some sort of infinite storage. 

@gaucho_tche, I didn't have time to play last night. Might be able to throw something together before I head out to work. I'll try. 

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22 minutes ago, gaucho_tche said:

so I give up in magma steam power. I don't recommend anyone to do it, 1) because the high pressure hot gases (CO2 mostly) and 2) magma solidifies when you remove heat for the steam turbine from it.

It's actually quite doable.  As we have said numerous times, you have to start with a vacuum before working with magma. Then, you need some sort of drip feed for the magma. There are plenty of builds and videos out there that demonstrate this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=oxygen+not+included+magma+power&tbm=vid

Both of Brothgar's videos and Steve Raptor's video are current. I'm fairly sure Tonyroid has a video about this on YouTube as well. The problem, as I see it, is that you're trying to build the huge complicated builds before you understand the underlying structures.

Anyway, corner building a vacuum break...  Sorry it's just a bunch of pictures. That's all I have time for today. Should be self explanatory.

Spoiler

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Is the solidified magma a problem, actually? I'm not sure on the mechanics, but those solidified tiles should still be 1200-1300 degrees and transferring heat, yeah?

They'll still allow heat transfer from the magma to the steam room, it's just a natural byproduct of you using that thermal energy. Magma pools have a set volume of thermal energy, and theoretically you'd convert the pool to igneous rock as you use up that energy.

You could build it more efficiently so it doesn't consume just a tail of the pool, either by accessing the side or bottom of a large pool, but I don't know that the igneous rock solidifying is the death of the build, more that it's a reminder that you're building a temporary build consuming a nonrenewable resource.

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You need a maintenance access area in vacuum. There are a few ways to set that up.

When the magma solidifies, send dupes in to dig it out.

Just think your way through this problem carefully - have done something like for a petroleum boiler.

 

But this is a high maintenance way to get power. Power from rocket exhaust heating is more hands off. Every kind of combustible fuel is also more hands off.

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Double vacuum chamber, remove all traces of liquid and insulate everything with either obsidian or ceramic, use ceramic where you want less heat transfer and obsidian where it doesn't matter. Have doors on the air locks & plenty of hospital beds, restrict access to low health or hospitalised dupes.  Send you dupes into the lava with obsidian ladders and dig it out, creating a pool of lava for you to make use of.

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it is obvious the heat from magma is not unlimited, and you need to choose a larger pool of magma for the power generation.

In your example, you pick a location with a small pool, that why it solidify sooner. 

That's why people usually focus on the volcano as it is unlimited.

 

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1 minute ago, Dosephshih said:

That's why people usually focus on the volcano as it is unlimited.

Being able to build beside/below the magma is another plus of using a volcano. It's much easier to get rid of solidified igneous when you can just dump more magma into the earea once it's gone. 

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9 hours ago, Craigjw said:

Double vacuum chamber, remove all traces of liquid and insulate everything with either obsidian or ceramic, use ceramic where you want less heat transfer and obsidian where it doesn't matter. Have doors on the air locks & plenty of hospital beds, restrict access to low health or hospitalised dupes.  Send you dupes into the lava with obsidian ladders and dig it out, creating a pool of lava for you to make use of.

What about the robo-miner? no body said a word about it, but is it possible to use one of those to circumvent the solidifying magma?

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3 hours ago, gaucho_tche said:

What about the robo-miner? no body said a word about it, but is it possible to use one of those to circumvent the solidifying magma?

If you're feeding the magma into a specific place to transfer the heat, yes, they work amazingly well.

If you're trying to pull heat out a pool from above, it's trickier as (unless made of thermium) the robo-miner will overheat in both a vacuum (recommended) or steam/gas (not recommended as this could overheat even thermium) environment and you'll be having to continually move both the robo-miner and the cooling system lower and lower as the pool shrinks.

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57 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

If you're feeding the magma into a specific place to transfer the heat, yes, they work amazingly well.

If you're trying to pull heat out a pool from above, it's trickier as (unless made of thermium) the robo-miner will overheat in both a vacuum (recommended) or steam/gas (not recommended as this could overheat even thermium) environment and you'll be having to continually move both the robo-miner and the cooling system lower and lower as the pool shrinks.

The moving down element is a problem but the cooling is possible.

You can put the miner on a wall with a 1 tile depression with a little bit of super coolant (or petro) on the tile. then you can just cool the tile with a pipe. The room needs to be a vacuum.

This is a nice way for vulcanos. Add a tempshift plate out of lead (it melts and provides the conductivity) soyou also can transfer the heat of the piles of igneus

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3 hours ago, FenrirZeroZero said:

The moving down element is a problem but the cooling is possible.

You can put the miner on a wall with a 1 tile depression with a little bit of super coolant (or petro) on the tile. then you can just cool the tile with a pipe. The room needs to be a vacuum.

This is a nice way for vulcanos. Add a tempshift plate out of lead (it melts and provides the conductivity) soyou also can transfer the heat of the piles of igneus

Reread the post. Never mind. :D Brain is still a bit foggy from being sick. 

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