[Question] transfer heat from cold to hot?

[Geizkragen]

Hello, im experimenting with heat, steam turbine, aquatuner ect. So I'm coming with an unusual question:

Which ways are known to transfer heat from cold to hot medium?

- Aquatuner, Ice maker, thermo regulator are good choises but they waste electricity. I mean, they dont convert electricity to heat - only wasted. not good for an efficien setup.

- temp schift plates and metal tiles transfer only from hot to cold, so this is not interesting (here)

- Steam turbine from min125°C steam to 95°C water is ideal, but delete (waste) huge amount of heat (DTU). Waste, not converting to electricity! so its also bad for an efficient setup. Other issue is that I cant go further down with the temp then 95°C.

 

So i'm looking for other ways to tranfer heat (or DTUs) from colder to hotter medium.

[avc15]

You've already listed them all.

If your concern is efficiency, work on ways to make your aquatuner as efficient as possible.

Also, there is a most efficient operating point for a steam turbine, as well (and this takes some experimenting to find as well).

The only things you haven't explored are (1) straight heat deletion objects i.e. the AETN and wheezewort (2) geysers that add cold matter to the game. Must get the most value out of these things as possible.

[mathmanican]

Not sure what you mean. Heat transfer is about equalizing temperature. Hot stuff gets colder, and cold stuff gets hotter.  If you have a large cold source, and a small hot spot, then you can use the cold source to cool off the hot spot (though your cold source gets hottter).  If you have a large hot source (volcano), then you can use the hot source to heat up a small cold spot. 

The aquatuner allows you to create a difference in temperature. You can use it to create a cold source or heat source for later use. The steam turbine deletes massive amounts of heat, whereas the liquid tepidizer creates massive amounts of heat.

[zOldBulldog]

I think he might be looking for ways to turn heat into power, not just regulate temperatures.

Logically and from a real life perspective, it does make sense that if you cool further an already cool thing you will be power negative (think of a real life refrigerator).   But you should also be able to use something hot to produce power (think of a real life steam engine, steam turbine, geothermal generator).

 

In game... I remember seeing videos where people used the heat from magma in combination with a turbine to generate massive amounts of electricity.  I am not sure if that is still possible in the current version, but it is an example of power positive cooling.  It would be interesting to see methods to do that... Even if the resulting "cool product" is still too hot to use effectively... since the goal there is renewable power without a geiser, not the cooled material.

[ONIfreak]

What do you mean?  Are you loolong foe ways to delete heat ( aquatuner for example) or exchange it ( tempshift plate). 

If you want to:

Exchange heat - everything is medium to do that apart of vacuum. Every gas/liquid or solid tile will exchange heat with surrounding better or worse. Most efficient known ways : gas - hydrogen or ethanol, liquid - water/PW, supercoolant solid - diamond tempshift plate, steel tile.

Systems: aguatuner, tepidizer etc.

Delete heat (so the ways to remove heat from the world sometimes exchanging it for something else).

- Steam turbine, Wheezworth, AETN, 

-Space - you can went hot gases to soace.

Most of the ways and biggest challanges in this game is to careful shift heat from one medium to other in order to delete it somehow. 

So - cooling something using medium ti shift its temp ti liquid and run it through agatuner

Shift temp to steam and delete it in steam turbine etc.

So what you are looking for? Are you tryi g to delete heat or shift it somewhere else.

 

[alexkuzmov]

For transferring heat from cold to hot (cooling) there is nothing better ingame than aquatuner + steam turbine combo.

Maybe you are looking for something closer to real world physics, but thats not in the game right now. Gas compression doesnt get the gas hotter and gas expansion does not make it colder. Evaporating liquid doesnt cool it down and so on.

Power efficiency in ONI isnt really important. Maybe in the early game, but once you get to the mid-to-late game you have alot of options to create free power.

[SkunkMaster]

get super coolant, put turbine on top of steam vent and aquatuners next to it. success, you now have 20c water free of charge.

[Stoned]

If you want to equalize temperature between 2 areas, just run a closed loop of liquid. It will heat up in the warm area and get cool in the cold area. No pump which means no power involved, just some patience.

I used that method for equalizing an ocean of water that I ended up with after melting vast ice biomes. 2C on one end, 50C on the other, the temperature was stable because it does no interchanges with less than 1 degree difference between 2 tiles. Used a closed loop of water and waited, and it balanced pretty well.

[Geizkragen]

On 5.9.2019 at 5:03 PM, alexkuzmov said:

For transferring heat from cold to hot (cooling) there is nothing better ingame than aquatuner + steam turbine combo.

Maybe you are looking for something closer to real world physics, but thats not in the game right now. Gas compression doesnt get the gas hotter and gas expansion does not make it colder. Evaporating liquid doesnt cool it down and so on.

Power efficiency in ONI isnt really important. Maybe in the early game, but once you get to the mid-to-late game you have alot of options to create free power.

Ty, a good answer.

So (befor super coolant, i'm in early game) I could use aquatuner + coal gen to produce heat for turbine and use power from coal gen and turbine to feed that aquatuner. A machine converting mass in cold ( not really realistic, but....).

I'll try that

[DonDegow]

I wouldn't recommend powering a lone aquatuner using coal generators, you'll quickly consume tons and tons of coal.

There are only a few ways to absorb heat from a spot colder than a heat sink, the simplest are thermoregulators and the beast aquatuner.

If you pair an aquatuner under a steam turbine, you'll lose only a tiny bit of power overall (something like 120W instead of normal 1200W for your aquatuner using water as coolant, half that if using super-coolant) and actually destroy a large amount of heat.

Now that I think about it, pairing an ice machine with a steam turbine could be interesting (but probably complex and not worth it though).

[Argelle]

19 minutes ago, DonDegow said:

I wouldn't recommend powering a lone aquatuner using coal generators, you'll quickly consume tons and tons of coal.

Oh sh..t I was on the way to do exactely this

My rational was: a lot of raw minerals -> 2 good stone hatchs farms -> more than 150 t coal (and climbing)

A need for cooling -> coal gen -> CO² -> 2 good slicsters famrs (oil & petroleum).

Do you have an estimate of how fast coal may disappear?

Rought estimate:

Aquatuner running full time (it will not) 1200 W <=> 2 coal generators (2x1kg/s coal) => 1200 kg coal per cycle

Hatchs farms => 116.67g per sec per hatch = 16 hatches => 16 x 117 g/s => 1867 g/s => 1120 kg per cycle

I already consume coal, so there is only in reality 250 kg excess coal per cycle. I'll be without any coal within 150 cycles

Too bad the conversion by critters CO² -> oil/petroleum is too small....

 

[DonDegow]

That's why you pair your aquatuner with a steam turbine, that way you would consumes only a fraction of your coal =)

Certainly doable within the 150 cycles limit you could have, even if you're far from unlocking plastic.

[Derringer]

9 hours ago, DonDegow said:

That's why you pair your aquatuner with a steam turbine, that way you would consumes only a fraction of your coal =)

If I read the wiki correctly, assuming a full packet of water-based coolant the aquatuner extracts 585060 DTU for 1200 J of electricity, and the steam turbine returns 1 J for each 1032.5 DTU put into it. This leaves an average deficit of ~633.4 J per packet cooled to be made up by external generation.

Getting oil is helpful beyond just plastic. You don't even have to faff with steel if you build the aquatuner out of gold amalgam, pour a layer of oil on the floor to move heat out of the aquatuner, and use tempshift plates to move heat from the oil to the steam. Direct transfer to the steam isn't fast enough.