Jump to content

Melt regolith for 39,000 watts of power.


Recommended Posts

This is a DEEP dive into every nuance of generating power by leveraging magma melt from regolith. Meteors supply about 3 rails worth of regolith, so you could potentially produce 39,000 watts of net power output this way.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very impressive.

Lots of game mechanic flaws that should probably be fixed.

Just a couple, regolith changing to something with a higher heat capacity but holding it's heat thus multiplying the heat it has.  The rails transferring heat to the tile below.  And maybe the 1k liquid pipes but that one seems specific enough that it is probably intentional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 0xFADE said:

Very impressive.

Lots of game mechanic flaws that should probably be fixed.

Just a couple, regolith changing to something with a higher heat capacity but holding it's heat thus multiplying the heat it has.  The rails transferring heat to the tile below.  And maybe the 1k liquid pipes but that one seems specific enough that it is probably intentional.

Indeed. I'm pretty confident the 1k liquid pipes is intentional, gas pipes also do it at 10% capacity or less. I've been using them this way for a while and it feels like a pretty well balanced capability with the limitation of low capacity. I've never been sure about whether the change in specific heat is intended, you can do the same trick when cooking oil into sour gas but I don't think there are any other opportunities in the game. The thing with the rails certainly seems unintentional to me, I suspect they simply gave debris on a rail the same properties as debris on the floor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Tonyroid said:

I've never been sure about whether the change in specific heat is intended

The difference in polluted water and water SHC was changed for heat balance reasons like 18 months ago. You generate or lose heat with almost any phase change. If they think this very late game application is imbalanced it would be an easy fix.

36 minutes ago, Tonyroid said:

I suspect they simply gave debris on a rail the same properties as debris on the floor.

Yes, in fact there is no special distinction between debris in rails or not. All debris transfers heat with the medium it's in (200x if solid) and the medium below it, so you need 3 conductive tiles or a perfect insulator below 2.

This also means going vertically conducts more heat than going horizontally if only building 2 tile width heat capacitors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Tonyroid interesting video. Amazing find about the chunk / lava freezing "mechanic" 

For those interrested, the lava's temp needs to be close to freezing ( ~1410*C ) to reproduce this

This is a huge heat deletion (multi) bug

  • the newly created debris taking implicitly the temp of previously present debris
  • and on top of that, cooling the lava just to the freezing point resulted in coolant's energy increase only by 90% of what would be expected

@mathmanican "Do you want to build an IceMan ?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I'm currently cooking up new things with mesh tiles

That physics engine must feel quite violated :D. A call 5secs, till somebody calls "abuse" yet again

Hope, you'll serve the dish steaming hot 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, flapee said:

A call 5secs, till somebody calls "abuse" yet again

Hope, you'll serve the dish steaming hot 

Don't worry. It'll come in nice and toasty once it's all done. You should make a new post on the Cool Drunk, the Boozer, and a rough sketch of the IceMan. The physics engine is a blast, and still so much more to "abuse". :lol: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, flapee said:

For those interrested, the lava's temp needs to be close to freezing ( ~1410*C ) to reproduce this

 

Yes. Thanks. I see now that I glossed that over in the video. The effect exists regardless but to reproduce my demo the magma has to be close to it's freezing point.

Also, it may be worth noting that once the chuck of debris gets to 100t of mass, the additional mass of the magma disappears too, it gets deleted from the game entirely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tonyroid said:

once the chuck of debris gets to 100t of mass, the additional mass of the magma disappears too

thanks! finally someone proved it. I thought i read about it being a think, but then everyone denied it ... was thinking I was loosing all my marbles  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, flapee said:

This is a huge heat deletion (multi) bug

aaand there is one more bug:

even if there is no debris on the ground, the phased product is way below the phase change temp

for example 5kg water freezes into ~ -20*C ice, 10kg steam condenses into 60*C water :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

What time stamp in the video are you referring to?

4:20ish

 

15 hours ago, nakomaru said:

I never knew about the merging dynamic for debris temperature. Great info.

such a poetic way to call a bug. well it offers massive exploitation potential, so i guess, it was well deserved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, flapee said:

4:20ish

Thanks.  I kept looking later in the video, and skipped the beginning.  Oops. When I see this bug, it appears to me to be the difference between beaded liquid dropping (no bug), and teleporting liquid falling (bug happens).  Luckily we know how to force one or the other.  The actual melter used later in the video uses beads to all the work (which is why the magma touches the wall all the way down. Once the door opens at the top of the melter by the volcano to allow magma to fall, the question I have is  whether or not we'll get beads or teleportation.  If we get teleportation, then the magma will drop all the way to the bottom and insta-change.

The side off which we drop things can have an impact in how things behave...

4 hours ago, flapee said:

Do you want to build an IceMan ?"

If you haven't by later today, I probably will.  "How to cool a cool steam vent, and get -40C ice instantly....."  This bug definitely needs fixing. :)  Haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

beaded liquid dropping (no bug), and teleporting liquid falling (bug happens)

bug no.3 (the no debris subphasing temps) happens to beaded water

 

1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

"How to cool a cool steam vent, and get -40C ice instantly....."

Catchy title! U got -40*C :o?  Even if they fix it

 

2 hours ago, flapee said:

for example 5kg water freezes into ~ -20*C ice, 10kg steam condenses into 60*C water :o

just got down to -208*C without the debris on the ground 

Sidenote: right now my relationship with TS is hate/love ... sometimes (at certain temps) "subfreeze temps" does not work. And even better, if TS is removed and 2 more sides are changed to alu metal tiles SFT is back. And other times you get -106 -143 -208*C icing on the cake ... 

image.png.50ed68602c58c4ef5176320693dd27a1.png

one guess what's wrong with this picture ...  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, flapee said:

Sidenote: right now my relationship with TS is hate/love ... sometimes (at certain temps) "subfreeze temps" does not work. And even better, if TS is removed and 2 more sides are changed to alu metal tiles SFT is back. And other times you get -106 -143 -208*C icing on the cake ...

I"ve been picking my initial temp, and then playing with how the surrounding medium changes (no super coolant) as the SFT happens.  I've been playing with different configurations, locations of tempshift plates, metal vs diamond, etc..  The surrounding medium does continue to get hotter, howerever you can use the frozen material  with sweepers in walls to keep the surrounding medium cold. There does appear to be a minimum difference in temp required for the SFT to happen (trying to pin it down precisely), so I want to build a machine that will guarantee this minimum temp is ALWAYS maintained. The minimum temp also appears to depend on how much liquid is falling.  I know I can force water to fall in 150kg or less chunks (bead/waterfall mechanics), so I'll play with this flow rate for now. This bug is possibly worse than drip cooling, though maybe not (as you could drop liquid through 100tiles and cool every single tile down with drip cooling).  

49 minutes ago, flapee said:

one guess what's wrong with this picture ...

 You'll have to share.  I tried and failed to guess correctly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you might have already noticed, but if not, there are multiple local minimas :-/ be it temp or weight 

good point with the tile types, i disregarded window tile as being "tile" just made from different element so i just stuck with high HC and TC hence alu ... 

as per SC, it's just to help with consistency across tries and doesn't play a role as being isolated before every try, just reading it realized, i could just copy pasted 100 same setups :D

I've checked the total energy of the system and sometimes SFT resulted in heat gain :D when using steam , with water havent noticed gain, even if adjusted for SHC of ice

42 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I can force water to fall in 150kg or less chunks

:o i'm out of your league ... just fooling around with 2 orders less... You've managed to get SFT on 150kg packet ???

42 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

This bug is possibly worse than drip cooling

well don't count ur chickens :D before they freeze

thought, for sure Boozer delivers much better throughput than Cool Drunk, but now his brains are splattered all over 

42 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

You'll have to share. 

was meant to be rhetorical, but obviously i've made one too many implications. Having 66K ice being made from 320K water, with the added bonus sharing a tile in that instant. Possible thanks water tile spilling across an edge and TP falling in multiple (probably?) successive ticks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

×
×
  • Create New...